Episode 139 | Haines Interviews Wiens

One of my dearest friends, Steve Haines, interviewed me on this episode, and it was incredible. He asks such probing, spacious questions. We talked Star Wars, pastoring, spiritual practices, childhood, and Mary Martin Wiens even made a surprise appearance (honestly - we didn't even know she was going to show up) at the end... and she basically stole the show. This one was so much fun. 

Enjoy.