Jaco Booyens - Combatting the Scourge of Human Trafficking

Show Notes and Transcript

Jaco Booyens joins Hearts of Oak to discuss his journey from South Africa to the U.S, becoming a citizen and focusing on anti-trafficking work. 
His organisation prioritizes prevention, inspired by his sister's trafficking experience. 
Jaco highlights the prevalence of human trafficking in the U.S, especially within families, tells us of the destructive impact of the pornography industry on exploitation and criticizes the church for not actively addressing these issues.
Despite facing opposition from Big Tech, Big Pharma, and the pornography lobby, Jaco encourages engagement, education, and support for anti-trafficking efforts and tells us how we can all get involved.

With 29 years of fighting trafficking, Jaco Booyens is the leading voice in America addressing the entire ecosystem that feeds human trafficking. His team collaborates with 170+ anti-trafficking organizations nationwide, as well as local and federal law enforcement agencies. JBM is consistently tracking the evolution of this crime in real time. This intel allows us to conduct a global gap analysis to best advocate for the needs of the anti-trafficking community on all fronts (legislation, awareness, training our first responders and government officials). JBM sees early and is able to sound the alarm - warning the American public about what’s happening to their children.

Jaco Booyens Ministries is an anti-trafficking organization led by the Holy Spirit to redeem the lives of children, victims, survivors, and those creating demand for sexual exploitation. 
They support real-life rescues and save children BEFORE they need to be rescued

Connect with Jaco and the Ministry...
WEBSITE           jacobooyensministries.org
X/TWITTER       x.com/BooyensJaco
INSTAGRAM      instagram.com/jaco.booyens

Interview recorded 29.5.24

Connect with Hearts of Oak...
X/TWITTER        x.com/HeartsofOakUK
WEBSITE            heartsofoak.org/
PODCASTS        heartsofoak.podbean.com/
SOCIAL MEDIA  heartsofoak.org/connect/
SHOP                  heartsofoak.org/shop/

*Special thanks to Bosch Fawstin for recording our intro/outro on this podcast.

Check out his art theboschfawstinstore.blogspot.com and follow him on X/Twitter x.com/TheBoschFawstin

TRANSCRIPT

Hello, Hearts of Oak.

I'm delighted to be joined by a brand new guest that I had the privilege of meeting over in my trip in Texas, and that's Jaco Booyens.

Jaco, thank you so much for your time today.

Thank you.

It was great to meet you in person, and thank you for the kind gesture of having me on your show.

Not at all.

It was wonderful meeting you and then meeting you again later jumping on with you on your show and I had not actually known about the work you're doing.

I've looked into it and and it's a phenomenal work you do and i'm hoping that we can share that with our viewers and listeners, but of course first of all people can obviously find you there's your twitter handle which is on the screen or X and this Jaco Booyans Ministries.org is the website that is on the the twitter handle at the top when you go on to Jaco's profile and also everything is in the description.

And you describe yourself Jaco as as an anti-trafficking organization led by the Holy Spirit which we'll delve into that point in a moment which is alien for UK viewers certainly but to redeem the lives of children victims survivors and those creating demand for sexual exploitation.

We support real life rescues and save children before they need to be rescued. So, we want to delve into the work you do, the vital work you've done for nearly three decades.

But before I start with that, can I ask you about yourself?

How does a South African end up in the US and becoming a US citizen, legally becoming a US citizen?

You know, that's the question today is what's legal and what's not legal, because we still have legal immigration in the US, you know, there's still and as you do in the UK, there are laws on the books, it's whether those laws are actually upheld or not.

That's the question of the day.

You know, Peter, when I was 18 years old as a South African, born and raised in Johannesburg, with a tremendous, you know, love for England because all our sport are the same.

Our school system is built on the British school system.

Our legal system is British law.

I mean, there's such an intertwinement between the UK and South Africa, right?

I was destined to play professional rugby at that time as an 18-year-old.

My sister was 12 years old.

We were on the brink of civil war. This is 1994, South Africa, Nelson Mandela's coming out of prison.

I mean, it is just a melting pot of change, right?

And in that year, 1994, when my sister Ilonka was 12, she was trafficked.

Now, we're from a single-parent home.

Father was not in our lives.

I'm a senior in high school, or a matriculant in high school, as we'll call it. But on my way to the military, because it's last class of military, mandatory military service, I'm also on my way to play professional rugby, which both happened.

But then also my sister is trafficked.

And it was a six-year journey.

Of this 12-year-old girl being trafficked until she was 18, my sister, so for me from just about turning 19 to 26, 25, 26, it was this process of not knowing exactly what has happened, what is happening to our sister.

And by God's grace, I was there the night she was rescued.

And in that process, none of us knew what human trafficking was, but in that six-year process, there was this agreement by the family, my mother, myself, my brother, that when Ilonka was coming home, and we believed that God had her, that she was safe, that we would immigrate to Nashville, Tennessee, because music was our love.

Music is, in fact, the industry she was trafficked through.

We didn't know it at the time. And so once that happened in 2001, we immigrated to the U.S. We came as visitors and started the process of becoming legal U.S. Citizens, came in legally and worked the process.

And for me, it was a 14-year process of becoming a citizen, because I was a visitor and then I became a professional athlete in the U.S., which changed my visa status.

And you start over every time. And then I lived in Canada for two years playing professional football in Canada, football, not British football, American football.

Which changed my legal status again.

And so I had to restart three or four times. And hence the reason it took 14 years before I was sworn in as a U.S. Citizen, you know, and very proudly so.

Where was that?

Which city, which area was that you were sworn in?

Did most of my work with the Memphis Office of Immigration, but I actually was sworn in in Dallas, Texas, because we moved to Dallas 2011 and 2014, sworn in as a U.S. citizen.

So, I've been a citizen now for nine, ten years almost.

It was such a proud moment, Peter.

You know, I love South Africa.

That red dirt never gets out of your system.

I love my people.

I love the country.

But we're called here for the fight.

We're in fighting human trafficking.

We're called here.

And standing in front of an immigration judge, I say this to a lot of U.K. residents would understand this.

When you have migration and immigration into a country, into the U.S., you are asked to assimilate.

You're required.

I had to write a written English exam, verbal exam, understand the branches of government.

An exam, I argue, most American citizens, naturally born, will fail. They'll fail that test.

Same here. Same situation in the U.K.

And so pass that exam, then you go through a bar. Then you go through an immigration federal judge, you get questioned.

You get all your biometrics taken, they check your background, et cetera, et cetera.

And then finally, you stand in front of a judge with your friends and family, and you hear, welcome, newest citizen of the United States.

And you pledge that allegiance for the first time, and you sing that national anthem, the Star-Spangled Banner, for the first time.

And what a moment, you know, what a moment.

Incredible.

Had my daughter there with me, my firstborn and she was witness to that. And so, you know, we honor that process, although it being a very expensive and a 14-year process, I honor it.

Jaco, you touched on your sports background. You're an entrepreneur. You were in the media industry, which you refer to what happened to your family.

That seems a lot on.

Why jump into this issue whatever you've got your hands filled with so many other things.

Yeah, you're right look I was I was born and raised on the stage.

I mean my mom was a theater professor so my first memory we're doing the musical, the student prince I was three years old so I was raised in the entertainment business which ended up being the business that trafficked my sister.

And so at the time, at 18, as I'm going to professional sport, the military, you've got a sister that's under duress.

And so it takes precedent.

Six years in, when Ilanka was rescued, by God's grace, I was there that night.

Peter, I'll just tell you my story.

I heard God's voice say, not another one.

And although I didn't quite know and understand what trafficking was at the time, this is 2001.

2001, I knew that this, this had to end through her eyes in the US after we arrived in Nashville, she called a family meeting and unpacked for us in detail, what men had done to her and how, and you know, you can't, you, your brain disconnects.

You don't want, you don't want to hear it, but you're hearing it because it's your sister.

And so everything I knew in the beginning, I learned from Ilonka.

That led us on this journey of fighting for every child and which led us to 2010 to realize that the United States is the leading nation in the world demanding the exploitation of people.

That's a fact. It's sadly so, but it's a fact.

We're demanding the highest demand on pornographic content, producing pornographic content, the distribution of CSAM, child sexual abuse material.

We lead the world in social media and app development, which has become the platform on which this is prolificated, right?

It's just, it's exploded since the age of social media.

And so since 2010, although we do a lot of work in other countries still, our organization has a hyper focus on the 50 states of the United States. And thank you for the quote early.

We believe we can save a child before they need to be rescued.

And what we mean by that is predators look for vulnerabilities in children.

If there's not a vulnerability, they'll exploit a potential vulnerability like love and belonging, care, shelter, food, community, identity, you know, and they'll explore what sticks and then they'll dig in.

And, you know, remember, it's a crime.

Human trafficking is such a broad term.

There's labor trafficking, debt bondage, sexual exploitation, sex trafficking.

But the crime of human trafficking by definition, which we had a hand in help write, is the exploitation of persons through the mechanism of force, fraud, and coercion.

And so those are the mechanisms predators use.

The bully uses force.

Fraud, coercion is so effective when you combine it with sexual exploitation, so for us we just learned how to use our relationships in media which is still ongoing and active.

Proud member of the blaze network with Glenn Beck.

We produce feature films.

We produce a lot of content and music and television.

We utilize those platforms now as sounding boards and awareness campaigns to drive all attention attention and focus to end the sexual exploitation of children.

That is our main focus, is to end trafficking.

Now, with that being said, our organization has four key pillars, of which one is policy and legislation.

Where we are unbelievably active in policy and legislation.

We've got great leaders of that in our organization, where we write bills for individual U.S. States, U.S. Senate, the House.

We consult.

We are even busy with a bill for the House of Lords to speak into how do we protect children in a community by us identifying the vulnerability, vulnerability securing the vulnerability before a predatory force gets to to exploit.

Tell me about the early days of starting the JBM, Jaco Booyan's Ministries?

Yeah, what were those kind of early days, because this is a huge issue and has got much worse there's so many facets where you can tackle this.

And you talk about media and legislation?

There are so many angles that you can start on.

And it seems as though this is something which actually is just too big to tackle.

And I'm sure a number of people have tried to look at this and walked away by the beast they see in front of them.

But tell us about those early days, how you started and how you grew in those first few years.

Yeah, what a question, man.

This is what makes you such a great interviewer, Peter, and congratulations on all the success of the show and the impact you're making.

It's because of questions like this.

That question is actually also the answer to the big problem.

You know, I came full circle, 30 years is a long time, Peter.

I mean, 30 years in, I now know that where we started is actually the solution to the problem.

We started by focusing on one child in one family, understanding that if the family breaks down, the child is vulnerable.

And so the solution to this multi-headed dragon monster that you're addressing is actually where we started.

We focused on one child, my sister, her story, her voice.

How did this happen?

Learning about where we were vulnerable and we didn't know as a family, because we have a mother that worked three jobs, actively engaged in every aspect of the lifestyle, but yet it's not a sound, stable family.

It's not.

And that's not to frown upon single-parent families.

They're to be celebrated, but they are vulnerable. We have to understand how they're vulnerable.

And so the early days was very tough because when Ilonka, first of all, when she went through trafficking.

The word human trafficking wasn't even socialized.

Law enforcement deemed it a runaway right away, quickly, as is happening today.

There was no policy and legislation.

We didn't have a definition for human trafficking in the US until 2015.

We didn't have laws on the books specific to child sex trafficking in the United States until 2015.

And so the early years from 2001 to 2015 was a desert.

You couldn't raise funds. You couldn't get anybody to repeat the word.

Nobody wanted to even know.

You couldn't talk about sexual exploitation and really child rape.

Rape it was it was just a taboo across the board and and there was these prayers of could we just see a day when people would at least want to talk about it.

Could we not just us but other amazing organizations that have championed this with us the problem was in the U.S. at that time and really still today to be honest on the heels of the Sound of Freedom movie.

Great film, we consulted on it know the guys well, but it still paints a misconception of really what's happening, is it paints this picture to the American population that the problem is elsewhere.

The problem is in Cambodia, it's in the Philippines, it's in Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast, in the Congo, and then they tie the problem directly to poverty or displacement, right?

Right.

Sure.

Poverty and displacement plays a big role, but that's, in fact, no longer a driving factor.

You know, the fastest growing form of human trafficking globally and in the U.S. is what's called familial trafficking, where it's family members trafficking their own children, where the child is not homeless, is not a runaway, is not in the foster care system.

So, for years we fought to say, hey, wait a minute. It's not just over there.

It's here. It's in the U.S. And that's still a battle we face today.

So we come full circle because we thought for a time period around 2010 through 15, we started saying to law enforcement, look, you're arresting the wrong people.

You're arresting the victims and the Johns.

The bad guys are walking free.

The pimps and the predators are walking free.

You know, so we said, could we just get laws on the books?

And then we did. And then we thought that we could arrest ourselves out of the problem. And you realize you cannot.

Then we thought we could legislate ourselves out of the problem.

And we realized, as you do in the UK at the moment, just because the laws on the books doesn't mean it's adjudicated as such in the court of law.

And so you're not going to legislate yourself out of the problem, although we need great legislation.

So, how then do we fix this?

We heal the nuclear family.

That's how you fix this.

The fight starts at home.

Each parent, every child, you don't wait until a child is destitute.

Or, I mean, it is a constant bombardment, a barrage of attack on our Gen Z culture of misinformation, lies, deceit, and sexualized content, normalizing absolutely absurd behavior.

And so the law is tossed aside for social norm. So, once we realize that, okay, we started with, bonding one family together around one child, we come full circle and realize the only way to stop child sexual exploitation is to educate one family at a time for them to take ownership.

Over the problem, which means accountability, fortify that family, and do not allow any of the crazy that you fight and I fight into the family.

Don't allow them to radicalize the school system, the education platform, driving the church out of the home, bringing radicalized ideology through different religion, as you are literally living in every day, into the conversation because it disfranchised the strength of a family, which then renders that family completely vulnerable to predatory forces.

I want to get on to the demand you talked about, and there are all different points on the website that people, the viewers, listeners do need to go to and absorb some of that information, to realize the scale of what you face and how you're working towards a solution for this.

But the industry, you talk about kind of, well, people talk about industries, the lobby power of Big Pharma or the war industry or the food industry.

But the sex industry, the pornography industry, and then the people trafficking kind of coming together, that sex industry, that must be a powerful industry with their tentacles in governments, not only in the US, but worldwide.

Have you seen that?

Yeah, it's because of the nature of it, you know, Peter in my in my Ted Talk, I say I open my ted talk I believe with every single human being can be trafficked.

If I know your greatest vulnerability and your greatest need you can be trafficked well.

Finance is a mechanism of vulnerability. Finance.

The desire to be loved and understood and seen as every human being.

So, every human being is a sexual being.

So, when you take sex as a concept and you corrupt it, you're going to devastate and destroy.

Absolutely so, now you're seeing that sex, in fact, a drug in pornography, 100%, right?

It's actually very effective.

So, you'll find that when we work with law enforcement in the U.S. and there's a drug raid.

There's not always sex involved. There's not always guns smuggling involved.

There's not always money laundering or people smuggling involved. It could be drugs.

Where you fight sexual exploitation, all of the above are involved.

Every single human trafficking case has illegal weapons, money laundering, people smuggling, drugs, crime, homicide.

It's the one thing that begets all of it because it's the ultimate moral compromise.

Once you go to that level where you are willing to look the other way or be participant in subjecting a child to exploitation, all the rest is fair game.

So evil will play that card. And so when we talk about the size of that industry, we are in this year going to surpass the illegal drug trade in the U.S. With sexual exploitation.

It will become the number one crime in the U.S. Now, in 2023, it was a $152 billion U.S. crime, sorry, international crime.

$52 billion of the $152 billion was domestic, was U.S. So, a third of the world's human exploitation by dollar value is in the U.S. When you would consider sexual exploitation as a for-profit enterprise, publicly traded, it would be a Fortune 100 company in the US.

This is tax-free, which makes its EBITDA close to probably $5 billion, right?

Because it's all for gain and for profit. But it's not just money, Peter. It's the corruption of power.

I'll give you an example.

Were deep into this conversation and investigation in the Sean Combs P. Diddy case, like we were in 2007 and are currently in the Jeffrey Epstein case, Ghislaine Maxwell, Harvey Weinstein.

Why it's prevalent at those levels is the following. It's not just money. It's not that they're making money through sex.

Yes, they do. It's power and position.

It's compromise, it's throwing a freak out party. P. Diddy's party inviting a bunch of people, positioning activity that's illicit in front of everybody.

Compromising everybody at the party. Filming people. Get a knock on the door going, hey, you were at the party.

You're in a photograph with a minor.

You didn't talk to the minor.

You didn't touch the minor.

You didn't engage in the basement.

None of it.

But you are compromised.

And it's a tool, unbelievably prevalent tool in politics to sway votes, to move people, to move judges, to move.

Look, you've got a member of the royal family implicated in the Jeffrey Epstein case.

There is no level of society as low or high where you cannot use sex to compromise an individual for power, position, or finance.

And that's why it's so prevalent.

It's effective, highly effective, because it speaks to the moral compass of a man or a woman, the fortitude and the spine of saying no, even if it costs you everything.

And so when you take desire for political position, right now, one of our top things we're doing with the United Nations in the UK, and I shared this with you, is looking into premiership soccer, premiership football.

The amount of Premier League players that had been trafficked from Africa, right? It's, again, there's a young talent.

How do you control that talent?

You compromise the talent, take passports, visa, you compromise them sexually, you hold something over your head.

This is an effective tool that's in business and in public and private sector alike.

Is part of the problem under the demand issue, and you touched about a moral compass, you've also got an innate sexual desire compass.

And when that gift of sex is abused by society, by media, then we see the end result. Adult, but you've got men in positions of power and pornography and masculinity, sadly, have become mixed and therefore, and it's also seen as a non-victimless activity.

It's seen as actually, this is fine, this is natural and these women, I'm sure they've made this decision to enter this career.

You kind of come up against that of men in positions and why would any man in a position who enjoys pornography, why would you want to stop this?

It's kind of seen as normal and natural and yet you're giving a different message which hits at it from an angle of truth that people don't want to accept I assume.

Yeah, look.

Taking accountability and personal responsibility for anything, as a father, for you as a father, right?

Staring your faults and your mistakes in the face and say, I own them.

That human nature shies away from that.

Even if it's not sex, just making a mistake, saying, hey, that was me. I own it.

I'm going to fix it. I'm going to do better next time.

By nature, people don't want to do that. When it is sexual compromise now it's secret in my world it's secret it's private.

It is their self-condemnation most of most men if they're honest they'll tell you right after they watch porn they feel guilty, they feel empty, they feel void, it does not fulfill them, and it will not, it cannot, because they've objectified a person where that where there's a dissonance, you know, there's a disassociation with nobody is being harmed.

Let me give you some statistics real quick, okay? Over 80% of what the world deems prostitutes, over 80% of those women have filed rape charges.

And you would say, well, how is a prostitute able to file a rape charge? It's easy.

All she has to do in the moment is say, 'no.' It's not consensual.

Well, you're branded a prostitute, so it must always be consensual.

No, there's no irrevocable consent, right?

Over 80%, get this number, 87% of what the world today classifies as prostitutes, we're talking about adult women now, right, had been sexually exploited as minors.

So are they prostitutes?

They're actually, in fact, not prostitutes.

Because you have to understand the human behavioural science, the mind, the psyche, what happens to sex hormones in the brain, puberty, what actually happens to a human being with sexual encounter and interaction. It's chemical.

It's metaphysical.

It's physical.

It's biological.

It's not just a feeling.

There's real reaction and there's bonding and tearing, bonding and tearing.

This is why divorce is so detrimental.

This is why having multiple sexual partners, there's a tearing because it's a bonding agent.

It's the most vulnerable, most intimate moment a human being will ever be in.

Complete exposure, nudity, nakedness, heart, emotion.

So, it's this constant bonding, tearing, bonding, tearing.

When you normalize that, you decimate culture.

Here's some statistics.

There's not a single civilization recorded in the history of mankind that embraced sexual exploitation that survived three generations, not one.

Rome fell because of this.

The Mayan culture fell.

The Greeks fell.

The Asian culture fell to where the Chinese have outlawed pornography completely.

They'll give the US TikTok with porn and the UK TikTok, but porn is illegal in China.

Why?

They understand that it will kill their culture.

Porn is the most destructive weapon on the face of the earth because it seems normal. It's sex.

Here's another thing.

Do you know that in Nevada, the state of Nevada that has legal brothels, and it's not on the Vegas strip, by the way, there's not a single legal brothel on the Vegas strip.

The areas in Nevada that has legal brothels.

Most of those women have pimps.

Most of those women perform pornography because they're not making enough money to make their quota on general sex trafficking on the Vegas Strip.

Most of those women in organized porn are intoxicated, are manipulated.

What I want men to understand is when you objectify a woman or a man, the violation of privacy.

What if it was your daughter?

For young men, your future wife.

The violation of privacy by observing porn, just observing it, watching it, you are creating demand for another human being to be exploited.

And it is exploitation, whether they understand it or not. Remember, most victims don't self-identify.

So, we are asking for human beings to be exploited, while we are frowning upon racism and all these things.

There's more slaves today, sex slaves, than ever before in human history, ever before.

We are dealing with a cataclysmic problem here in society where now we're looking at it and go, well, if we normalize it, there's Germany two weeks ago legalizing the possession of child.

Pornography.

Okay, I hear you. How did the individual obtain the child pornography?

A child was exploited.

So, you could say it's legal to possess it, but then you're saying it's legal to create it.

So, the child has no defence.

The child is a sitting duck.

That culture, you mark my words, the German culture is going to implode.

It will implode.

It'll be decimated at the core because it's the ultimate moral compromise.

When you have a situation in the UK where you have rape gangs, when you have a situation in the UK where there's no go zones, where you have a situation in the UK where a doctrine that does not frown upon sex with children becomes normalized.

You're going to lose the culture.

You'll be decimated like the Romans.

You will lose it all.

There is no way around this.

If you cannot protect, for me as a Christian, it's a mandate, Peter.

But even if you're not a Christian, let me tell you, if you cannot protect the vulnerable of your culture, the most vulnerable children, you don't have a future.

Forget about them standing up for freedom, for liberty and justice, for our constitution, your constitution, for be kind to your neighbour, be a good citizen.

You are having a Gen Z class.

That is the most self exploitive class in human history.

They sell their own bodies on OnlyFans.

The girls in, and I've been on many UK campuses, go talk to them, ask them what's their body count, what's their sexual partner relations like.

They've lost count.

They've lost hope and they're empty.

So pornography in any form, hentai, animation, porn, pornography is the entry drug into human exploitation and human trafficking.

Speaking, I've never met a single paedophile, child trafficker, convicted trafficker that was not a porn addict that has not told me it started with pornography.

And the drug no longer sustains the dopamine requirement.

So, it has to go to harder core porn than it goes to purchasing sex from an adult.

That doesn't satisfy.

And the ultimate end goal is prepubescent sexual encounter, which is where you see Germany going on a bullet train.

I agree. It's a massive concern watching that legislation.

Jaco, you talked about your faith right at the beginning.

And on the website, you say you're led by the Holy Spirit.

Tell me where the church fits into this, because we've seen the church in the UK shy away from any major issues, and as long as they can have their Bible study on a Wednesday and their service on a Sunday morning, they've ticked those boxes, and we see a church withdrawing from society.

What's it like for you as a high-profile individual on this huge, horrendous, dark issue that needs to be addressed and that no one really, if you talk to anyone in the street, no one would disagree with anything you say.

Then you get down to actually them doing something that's a different issue.

But where is the church in this?

Where are Christians in this, especially over there in the US?

You know, earlier, and I can't be a hypocrite.

And I told you this before, every morning I start my day in the mirror asking myself if I'm part of the problem.

Do I look the other way?

Do I see something and not say something?

Am I in some way, you know, demanding for some human being to be exploited?

And the answer has to be absolutely not.

So as a non-hypocrite, I'm going to tell you, the church has been nowhere in this conversation, because the church has believed the separation of church and state, and the church can't speak into societal issues, and the church is not supposed to bring the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And I'm now speaking to the church, and I'm speaking to all denominations, not just Catholicism that's very prevalent in the UK history.

I'm talking to the Protestants, you know, all of them, right?

The Anglicans, you know, the non-denominationalists.

Our faith is not a faith of gathering, tapping each other on the shoulder and saying, hey, let's have Bible study.

The greatest commandment of our faith to the one we serve, Jesus Christ, is go into all the nations and disciple, which means bring solutions, kingdom solutions to earthly problems.

He tells Peter, pray on earth as in heaven.

Heaven, our Father who art in heaven, on earth as in heaven, meaning bring heavenly, Holy Spirit-led, divine, scriptural, foundational solutions to great earthly problems like foster care and abortion and racism and whatever conversation you want to have.

If the church does not actively engage with solutions in love, not in hate, in love, but with truth, which is the word of God in the public square, the church is in fact abandoning their watch post on the wall.

That is, Peter, Ezekiel 33, 7 says, if the watchman on the wall, which by biblical precedent is the believer, the Christian.

If the watchman on the wall does not warn society of an injustice that it sees, meaning speak into it, speak biblical truth, not a fluid biblical worldview, not a watered down false gospel, the gospel.

If a Christian, each individual, does not actively speak with their mouth into that injustice, then the blood of is on the hands of the watchman.

If that watchman, the Christian engages in culture in these conversations that you're having with Brexit, with the parliamentarians, the house of lords; what's happening.

If they don't engage in election conversation from a biblical worldview, if they don't preach it from the pulpit, right?

They're in fact the watchman with the blood on their hands.

You can't as a Christian stand and say well look at Joe Biden, what is happening to America?

We are, we're having drag shows for kids.

We are losing our culture.

My question immediately is where was the church when they drove you know prayer out of school?

Where is the church when we say: hey we're going to show up at a drag show for kids and say this is not okay.

They don't show up.

So, the role of the church, in fact, the Messiah we follow, Jesus Christ, didn't even have a home, Peter.

Didn't have a building, met under trees and went town to town to do what?

Meet need, feed people, heal people, right?

And spread a different message, a gospel that's a gospel of love, but correction, accountability, take ownership, wait for the British Parliament to save your family.

You've got stewardship over your family, over your community, your child's school, right?

And so Christians have abdicated their social responsibility because we've made the gospel just about me and my salvation.

And now it's private.

And now I'm not even a contributor to society.

I'm just hoarding faith.

But the Great Commission is go and spread this news.

So, the church is complicit, 100%.

When we are told Jesus went around doing good, destroying the works of the enemy, that verse is enough to live by until our dying day.

Jaco, let me finish off just on the opposition you face on this issue.

You talk about legislation.

I'm sure there's opposition there.

I know you're heavily involved in the media and I had the privilege of you showing me around the Blaze studio.

And I felt a little bit of envy rising up as you were showing me around the facilities you have.

Where does the opposition come from? Is it the political?

Is it the media?

Or is it lobby groups? Because again, publicly, no one will reject your message.

But privately, there must be opposition to what you're doing or else we will see this situation eradicated.

I agree with you.

You know, the people in general, if we go into what I love, and I'm just going to say this, I love walking from Piccadilly to the West End.

I love that walk all the way to Waterloo Bridge.

I love that city, right?

And when I stop people, I'll never forget, there was a group of kindergartners that were connected with a yellow vest, a bright yellow vest, and their teachers were all around them. And they were protecting them, walking through on a field trip through Piccadilly Circus, right?

And there was an immediate reverence by the people they made way.

In general, the public's gonna agree.

Look, when they look in the eyes of a child, yeah, we've got to protect that child.

The problem comes in when they abdicate their voice to government and they abdicate their voice.

Well, this parliamentarian, this member of the House of Lords will speak on my behalf.

They will not.

They will not.

They've got a different mission.

Their mission is to stay in office.

Their mission is to stay in power.

The Uniparty, the globalists, their mission is to not have their own personal faults exposed to the world, to not lose position.

So, the problem comes with general society agrees, but general society doesn't speak up and general society doesn't hold those who have been elected accountable.

So now by default, we're forfeiting power to organizations.

And so our biggest opposition comes from political parties on both sides of the aisle in every country.

The Republicans, the Democrats, there's as much opposition sometimes in the House of Lords to a subject like age verification for social media websites.

The second I bring that up, they go, wait a minute.

Okay, well, hold on.

Or when you bring up freedom of speech should not protect pornography to children.

That's not a right, right?

And that's what Germany grappled with.

Do I think the German culture on the ground in the countryside want to see pornography children?

Absolutely not. But they lost their voice.

They've given it over. So in the U.S., our top opposition is big tech.

Think how well they're funded.

Big pharma.

Absolutely.

Big pharma as making a radical push for gender modification, puberty blockers, you know, sexual alteration of children, massive push, and they throwing money at politicians to sway votes.

We have now an official pornography lobby, not against porn, for porn on K Street, over a hundred million dollar funded porn lobby that knocks on the doors of politicians every day and coerce them to legalize porn, child porn, to lower the age of consent.

We've got a gigantic opposition in the non-faith community.

We have a massive fight with radicalized Islam. It's just a fact. It's just a fact because societally in that religion, they don't frown upon. Activities we frown upon as an American culture.

I'm reminded in the last Soccer World Cup, I was asked to work with the Qataris on an anti-trafficking campaign.

And I said, I cannot, because you guys don't frown upon having eight-year-old child brides.

That's the trafficking, the selling of little girls.

And their response to me was, well, would you help us to say trafficking of boys is frown upon?

I said, this is asinine.

It's insane.

Which FIFA stepped up and said, hey, we're against trafficking of all sorts.

But culturally, when you abandon your core culture as a nation for a foreign entity to come in, and you're not asking that entity to become British.

And I'm not saying they got to love bangers and mash, you know, but culturally who what what is the fabric and the fibre of of of Great Britain.

What is what is an American what is the we do not consent with the exploitation of children in this country we do not agree with hate or racism we do not agree that that you shouldn't have freedom of speech, a first and second amendment.

You cannot come to this country from a Joseph Kabila regime in the Congo and think that you can come cut people's limbs off.

That's not okay.

And the second culture loses its voice that we don't agree.

You have people speaking on your behalf, but they're not speaking on your behalf.

They're speaking on their own behalf and on their own compromise.

And you lose your culture.

Jaco, I really appreciate your time.

I'm intrigued and excited at the work you're doing and for the viewers and listeners maybe you haven't come across your mister before how do they how do they partner with you how do they support you?

I know you've got a shop on the website. I'm sure you've got a donate button. I mean how do people become part of what you're doing?

Yeah, thank you.

Our number one social platform we use is is Instagram.

We're on X and Twitter but But there's massive censorship of our voice on some of those platforms.

Please go to HelpJBM, Juliet Bravo Mike, Help, Jacobooyens Ministries, Help JBM.org. Number one thing I want your viewers to do is to get educated on our website, how to protect their own families, how to have a conversation with their teenager.

How do predators talk online?

Is your child already engaging with a predator on DMs, on social media?

Secondly, they can help us for a nominal fee save lives period to rescue children from trafficking, fortify them, partner with us in donations but they can also partner with us by by becoming ambassadors in their community; distributing truth and educating families on how to how to protect men, women, and children from sexual exploitation.

Jaco, thank you so much for saying that I know the viewers and listeners will really want to go delve into the website and support you in any way possible.

So, thank you so much for coming along and sharing the work you're doing.

Appreciate you, Peter.

God bless you.