Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other

Andrew Heaton: Tribalism Is Dumb – Why We’re Hardwired for Division & How to Cope

2025-06-10

In this insightful and often humorous episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes political satirist, author, and podcast host Andrew Heaton for a wide-ranging conversation about his latest book, Tribalism Is Dumb. Heaton, known for his podcast The Political Orphanage, brings his signature blend of wit, intellect, and candor to explore why politics has become so viciously tribal—and how we can fix it. Drawing from personal stories, deep research, and evolutionary psychology, Heaton discusses the roots of human division, the impact of media and technology, and the path to a more t...

In this insightful and often humorous episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes political satirist, author, and podcast host Andrew Heaton for a wide-ranging conversation about his latest book, Tribalism Is Dumb. Heaton, known for his podcast The Political Orphanage, brings his signature blend of wit, intellect, and candor to explore why politics has become so viciously tribal—and how we can fix it. Drawing from personal stories, deep research, and evolutionary psychology, Heaton discusses the roots of human division, the impact of media and technology, and the path to a more thoughtful public discourse.

What We Discuss:

Why tribalism is hardwired into human nature—and how it gets misapplied in modern politics
How Heaton’s upbringing influenced his commitment to civility and intellectual rigor
The role of media, social media, and political leadership in fostering division
Practical tools for having productive, respectful political conversations
What we can do—personally and societally—to resist toxic partisanship

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Intro to Andrew Heaton and his new book
[00:02:30] The story behind the dedication to Heaton’s father
[00:06:45] Heaton’s early political influences
[00:10:15] How Heaton preps for his many podcasts
[00:21:00] The evolutionary roots of tribalism
[00:34:00] Protestant vs. Catholic soccer rivalry in Scotland
[00:36:30] What changed in the last few decades
[00:55:00] Tools for better political conversations

Featured Quotes:

"There are lots of people that we share this country with that are good and intelligent people. The fact that we disagree with them is not a negation of their humanity." – Andrew Heaton
"The need for an enemy precipitates the existence of the enemy." – Andrew Heaton
"Tribalism is not just about community. It’s about the reflexive urge to find a ‘them’ to define the ‘us.’" – Andrew Heaton
"I just try to remember: we’re not arguing about whether you're a good person. I already believe you are." – Andrew Heaton

Resources Mentioned:

The Political Orphanage podcast: https://mightyheaton.com/the-political-orphanage
Tribalism Is Dumb by Andrew Heaton: https://mightyheaton.com/books
Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Bowling-Alone/Robert-D-Putnam/9780743203043
How to Have Impossible Conversations by Peter Boghossian: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/peter-boghossian/how-to-have-impossible-conversations/9780738285344/

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