All three of us had hoped to meet in Thunder Bay this September but COVID put an end to that. So not we're chatting online. I think more emerged from this conversation than I had anticipated.
The product of community building
Jordan Peterson
Emergence and emanation
Deep conceptual difficulty in reconciliating the two
The religious case against belief. Finite and infinite games
Narrative in conversation is not the point of a finite game but an infinite game
The bottom up and the top ...
All three of us had hoped to meet in Thunder Bay this September but COVID put an end to that. So not we're chatting online. I think more emerged from this conversation than I had anticipated.
The product of community building
Jordan Peterson
Emergence and emanation
Deep conceptual difficulty in reconciliating the two
The religious case against belief. Finite and infinite games
Narrative in conversation is not the point of a finite game but an infinite game
The bottom up and the top down is relevance realization. Ongoing evolution of relevance realization. The machinery is deeply at one with each other.
Suchness, moreness, foundness
Emergence in terms of the person
The unity of our being and the multiplicity of our being are found together
How this scales up into larger communities
The connection between the cog sci version and the communal version is completely linked together.
There is no other perspective. No other perspective beyond the first person.
The bigger pattern for JP is not the scientific pattern, but the pattern of meaning
Science of a bunch of examples of how that happens.
The solution is an incarnational principle. You can't ultimately separate them. It is only in the embodiment that you encounter the pattern.
The resurrection.
CBT: helping people here, there is no narrative there.
There are aspects of the universe that are beyond the narrative aspects of our lives
You're trying to find a purpose, a telos,
We can't become temporally extended selves without narrative. Narrative is indiscernible without being a person
Are there aspects of the universe that are properly thought of without being person
Narrative deals with personality and personhood.
That gets taken up in the mystical tradition, states that are non-personal and supra-narrative
Sally Mcfag on parables that undermines itself as a story, there is no final reconciliation. If we try to resolve that that's precisely where we lose the humanity. If we try to preserve that we lose the humanity.
Therapeutic to realize the non-narrative.
The story is the breakdown in meaning.
A story is a breakdown in meaning or a re-capturing of meaning
Three tiered structure. Beyond meaning. The mystical direct vision that goes above narrative. You have chaos and death which is a breakdown of meaning in a scattered sense. Then in the middle which is the world we navigate in. The story is a navigation between these two parts.
The cross is at the top of the mountain. The non-duality is the break down of meaning and the transcendence of meaning.
Metaphor, symbol, narrative
Problem of pluralism
The idea that story comes to an end. The only ending is my story's ending.
Meaning is often post hoc
Vision of eschatology is that the logos judges at the end.
Reconstructive memory, our memory is like a compost pile
Pretense of the stability of the narrative that is not true
Useful way to see patterns
Predictions and post-dictions
Mythic-always-diction
Fundamental mistakes of scientism. It's a process for overcoming self-deception
If what we are ultimately about is pattern detection, the narrative we need must encompass with this tremendous process
Do not equate science with its current claims. A family of processes for overcoming self-deception.
The return to consciousness, the relationship between consciousness and meaning making fills up the horizon of our understanding.
The book of Revelation is mythical prediction.
The image of the last age is the city
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