Episode 15 - Emotional Intelligence - Roger Wolkoff

Roger Wolkoff, an expert in Emotional Intelligence is a highly empathetic person and one that found his passion for coaching and public speaking in hopes to create work environments that people don't want to leave. 

Leighann Lovely  00:15

Let's Talk HR is a place for HR professionals, business owners and employees to come together and share experiences and talk about what's working and what's not. How we can improve best practices so that companies can better attract, train and retain all generations of workers. We all know that there has been a huge shift in what people want. generations are coming together, more than ever, on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about how the economy has been impacted and what needs to happen to find a balance. I'm your host Leighann lovely. So let's get this conversation started. And remember, if you enjoyed this episode, follow us like us and share us.

 

Leighann Lovely  01:04

I am honored to introduce my guest today I have probably one of the most authentic conversations I had when I first met Roger. Let me introduce Roger Wolkoff. Roger is a motivational speaker who helps you create teams and companies people don't want to leave. You hire him for your for his expertise in emotional intelligence and appreciation. He doesn't give up on people he believes they will find a way to move forward and improve. How does he do this Rogers programs are high content and motivational in style and tone. He delivers stories, ideas and keys to unlock what's already inside you. Roger has over 20 years of expert interpersonal communication and team building experience. Audience raved about his two most popular keynotes how to thrive in times of uncertainty and create companies people don't want to leave. Roger's core messages center around trust, communication, and emotional intelligence. He helps leaders and high performing teams communicate with clarity, conviction and positive intent. He is an advocate of Clifton Strengths Finder, VIA Character Strengths and everything surrounding positivity. Roger lives in Madison, Wisconsin. He currently serves as president of the national speaker, Speaker Association Wisconsin Chapter. He loves to travel bike and read science fiction. He is a big fan of baseball, Pinball, and all things. Tesla. Welcome Roger. I'm so excited to have you here with me today.

 

Roger Wolkoff  02:45

Thanks for having me. I appreciate you inviting me on the podcast.

 

Leighann Lovely  02:48

Yeah, I'm looking forward to this. So why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself in your backgrounds.

 

Roger Wolkoff  02:55

Oh, thanks for asking. You bet. Well, as I like to introduce myself, to others, I'm a recovering project manager kind of backed in Yeah, back into the career many, many years ago. And I've been out of it for about six years. So I'm originally from New York, and I've been in the Midwest and in Madison, Wisconsin now about 30 years. So spent a lot of time in corporate. And the one thing I learned is that human behavior basically fascinates me. And we're going to get into this in a little bit. But emotional intelligence fascinates me too. Because I believe that that's kind of at the root of how it speaks to how we understand and react and respond in relationships. So that's another piece. And lastly, I I'm a bit of a geek. I'm a bit of a geek at heart. Yeah. I love sci fi, particularly time travel or alternate history, parallel universe stuff. So I tend to binge watch a fair amount of Netflix stuff for Amazon stuff. And a big, big reader in that area. Yeah, and I think I might have put it on my bio. I'm a I'm a huge Tesla electric car fan. You did not know that about me. I don't own one yet. But I'm just fascinated with the technology and I'm gonna get me one of one of them someday.

 

Leighann Lovely  04:15

You know, it's it's so fun. I remember reading a story. Oh my god, it wasn't that long ago of a CEO that owned a company and during the pandemic I believe he stopped taking a salary or cut his salary like massive and didn't his employees end up buying him with with their extra a Tesla or something

 

Roger Wolkoff  04:41

I heard something like that. I didn't know if it was a you know, one of those urban legend things. I didn't research it, but I wouldn't be surprised. No,

 

Leighann Lovely  04:47

I actually I saw a picture of it. And yes, all the employees standing out in the parking lot. And he had like, dreamed of God. I wish I could. Now I have to go and research that because I'm I'm pretty Sure, that it that's what it was a he had dreamed of owning one one day and he had been like, saving to buy one. And yeah, he he stopped taking a salary drawing a salary so that he could keep his, his company open and all of the employees then pitched in, and eventually were able to, to buy him his dream car. That's, that's awesome. But it is awesome. Yeah, yeah, that, you know, there are amazing things happening these days with what one company owners, business owners, you know, people are doing for other people. It's just, it's so amazing. But another thing that you said that I just love your that you're kind of a geek, I, I think that we all are, in some way, a geek in our own way, and the things that we dig into, and I'm self proclaimed HR geek, human relations geek i i just love talking about relationships and how we can do better with so many different aspects and on the people front of things. And some people say, you know, Leanne, the things you talked about aren't necessarily HR. But if you think of the word it's it's human resource. It's a resource for humans. I think in a way, aren't we all kind of a resource for other humans?

 

Roger Wolkoff  06:22

We are in and I like your definition of it. And I'm sure you and I both run into people where that's not the case. Yeah. And so perhaps, I know, our paths intersected so that we can just help more people on our paths one person at a time.

 

Leighann Lovely  06:40

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. You know, I run into some amazing people all the time. That's, again, why I'm such a geek, I love to talk about this stuff. Now, you have an amazing background. But for the last nearly what, six years, you've been a professional, motivated, motivational speaker. Tell me, you know, how did you find your way down that path?

 

Roger Wolkoff  07:03

Well, thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you for saying that. How did I find my way down here? It's a great question. So one of the things I enjoyed about my job as project manager was, I it was my job to help remove barriers for people so that they could complete the tasks on the projects that and what I learned along the way, it was one of the best ways to do that. You know, we needed to build relationships and trust. That's how this work, right? So very early on in the project, I'd have maybe anywhere from, you know, five to 10 people and I took 15 minutes with each person. And we go on a little 15 minute 20 minute coffee walk. And I'd say honestly, I'd you know, if you and I were walking in, I'd say Leighann, tell me a story. And most of the time you look at me, like I'd lost my mind. And I said, No, tell me a story. Tell me tell me something about the end. What's on your mind right now? What's going on with you? What what tell me about Yeah, you can tell me something about your family, you could tell me something about pert, you know, something personal, you could tell me something about work. But whatever was going on with you at that moment, right? That that was in your mind, we could talk about it. And these these chats were always in confidence. And we got to so there would be a reveal on their part and reveal on my part, and we got to know each other a little better. So what I also learned was that helped me facilitate meetings better, you know, this, this gift of learning how to talk with people. So I'm not going to roll the dice. Or I'm not going to go figure out where to be project manager and do work that I don't enjoy as much and go figure out what I want to do. And motivational speaking training came to mind because that's when I was happiest when I was training and in front of people and delivering messages and helping people see the light bulb go on, you know what I'm saying? And that's what I enjoy about the the motivational speaking the training part that not everyone in the audience is going to have a light bulb go on over their head. But I figured 20% of the people are there because they want to be there. 20% are there because they either have to be or they don't want to be there. And the remaining 60% If I did my math, right, are there because they do they're open to being influenced one or one way or the other?

 

Leighann Lovely  09:16

Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I love that you start off with tell me a story. People are so much more comfortable if they're presented or if it's presented that way. versus you know, tell me about yourself or tell me you know, I say it to my daughter all the time. Tell me a story and she says it back mommy told me a story. And and it's it's really cute because it one it opens up the creative minds. Totally. And when people when people are when you take away that fear when you kind of break down those those barriers, all of the sudden it's much easier to have open and honest conversation.

 

Roger Wolkoff  10:01

Isn't it though. And I found by leading also leading with something that that if you open and be a little vulnerable, the other person is going to follow without even thinking about it. Right? They're subconsciously going to think oh, okay, wow, now I feel like it's safe. Let's see how save I can be by revealing something I may tell you that I enjoy watching movies going out for sushi and skiing? Well, maybe that's just a small way of us, you know, oh, wait a minute, Oh, I like to go out to eat to really? Oh, do you? What kind of food do you like? Right? So right there, we're often running to a conversation that we might not have opened up a little bit about my likes,

 

Leighann Lovely  10:41

Right? Absolutely. You know, I used to be picked on way back in the day, and I completely understand. But people would say, you know, you're you're very quick to tell vulnerable things about yourself, you're very quick to be open about the fact that you have bipolar disorder. Now, not in business. This was in my personal relationships, right. And somebody once said to me, you know, maybe you should keep that to yourself. And I thought, well, you know, if you're uncomfortable with it, you don't have to, you don't have to be around me. Right. But when it came to my personal life, that's, that's the way I've always been. Now, years ago, it was not in my professional life, that was not something I was ever going to talk about. But what I realized was that the more open I was, the more genuine the relationships that I had in my life were. And it was only until recently that I realized that I could have true genuine relationships in my professional life as well, by being open about that, obviously, not just blurting it out all the time. But being your right, there's, there's nothing wrong with being vulnerable, people need to have a little bit of vulnerability people want to buy from somebody that they are able to be vulnerable with, and you understand people so much better when you can when you connect, and have that. So I would love to hear a little bit more about you know, your philosophies on, you know, the the coaching aspect and the our, yeah, the coaching aspect, or the the speaking aspect, you know, how did you really start to hone in on your sweet spots? And what really resonated with people?

 

Roger Wolkoff  12:27

Great question. I learned that the short answer is I've learned by listening. So it's kind of funny, right? Speaking, speaking is about listening. And so I sought a lot of information. Some of it came from the gut. And then I realized I needed to listen to what people wanted to hear. And so when I talk about motivational speaking, a lot of my programs are they're extremely interactive, you know, it's not just me standing up front, 45 minutes for an hour of me. And so what I'm what I'm getting at here is it became It soon became a mutually beneficial journey. And by that I mean, that I get as much as I give. So when I'm giving and making space for people to give on their part, oh my gosh, it enriches the conversation so much. I remember very early on thinking, Oh, my gosh, I have got to have all this content, I got to be the expert, how am I going to be the expert, right, all this talk going on in my head. And what I realized was I quickly got into my groove of listening. And so with my style of talking conversation, humor, planting humor, and not at the expense of others, but using situations to help people feel using humor and to help people feel more comfortable in situations. That's that that quickly evolved into my philosophy of talking about emotional intelligence, because emotional intelligence isn't a problem that people wake up thinking, Oh, I have a problem in emotional intelligence. Where do I go? We we think about emotional intelligence, like problems, a fair amount, like we ruminate on how we communicate with somebody we ruminate on. How did I say that? Did I come across a certain way? Gee, I wish I could have taken that back. Right? These are all things, social aspects, right? Social awareness, aspects of emotional intelligence that kind of keep us up at night. And so that's where I really attached to emotional intelligence and assessments like the DISC assessment for how we communicate. That is how I developed and continue to develop my, my particularly my particular philosophy,

 

Leighann Lovely  14:37

That's great. And, you know, it's funny. We now our generation, the generation that exists in the workplace, right now, we're, we're learning about emotional intelligence, which you would think that, gee, isn't that something that should be taught as children? Shouldn't we start teaching this? So right You smile, and you kind of laugh and you're like, well, it shouldn't have been I mean, shouldn't this be something that as we're raising our children, we, we explain to them that, if you're mad, that's okay. But here's how you deal with being mad, here's how to properly but for so long, and not so much in, you know, my growing up, my, my parents were great at, you know, kind of help, it's gotten better each generation. Now use us you hear parents regularly, you know, I'm at the playground or I'm at somewhere and I hear parents saying, you know, to their kids, it's okay to be mad, but you you're not allowed to, you know, hit. And this is how we can, we can, you know, use your anger constructively. And you're, you're actually hearing, you know, adults having those conversations with their four year olds, or their three, you know, three and five and six year olds. Now, and this is the basics to, you know, the, I mean, the very basics to emotional intelligence. And by the time that generation is in the workforce, they're going to go emotional Intel, what I mean, they're going to have this complete, right, it's going to be a complete and total different understanding of, of emotional intelligence, that it's going to have to be a completely different book on, you know, more of like emotional intelligence in the professional world versus just general emotional intelligence. But our society is, and again, we're always learning new things, or we're always evolving as humans and people, but you would think that we would have gotten this already, but we haven't. And it's just, it's just interesting that, you know, we're finally having those. Yes. Being happy is good. You know, being sad is, is okay, being angry is okay. But you're not allowed to go and scream at somebody else. Because you're angry, it's not there. And I love the poll, you had a post on LinkedIn that just really grabbed my attention. And that's where this kind of was going. You said, emotions are not problems to be solved? Yeah, it really grabbed my attention, because they're not.

 

Roger Wolkoff  17:17

They arent, and I'm glad, I'm glad you enjoy that one. That's how that's one of the first quotes I kick off the program within it, it gets people thinking so it that one speaks volumes to me too. So I'm glad it resonated with you. And I got to tell you, the whole quote is this emotions are not problems to be solved. They are signals to be interpreted. And that's not my quote, it comes from Veronica toogle Ava. She's the one who we attribute that to, and she's a poet, spoken word artist. It resonates with me, because I personally am highly sensitive to people's feelings I grew up in a space where emotions were not talked about there were there were negative connotations to emotions, we just weren't allowed to express emotions. And so that was an extreme struggle for me as a kid, because I'm a highly emotional, sensitive person. And so I learned growing up in that environment, I became highly, highly empathic to, to other to the situation in the road to other people's feelings to their moods, they're all kinds of stuff. So and that kind of stuff is this, you know, it was their facial expressions, it was the tone they were using. I was always analyzing Well, wait a minute that what you're saying is not jiving with your facial expressions, your body language, you know, there's something going on here. So it was a lot of survival mode type of stuff that I had to deal with. And so when I saw that emotions are signals to be interpreted, I'm like, yeah, they are. That's how that's how we do that. And I believe many of us, all of us, many of us, are programmed to respond to cues, whether we know it or not everyone has something in them that they respond somehow. And I think it's fascinating, particularly what we choose to do with that information we interpret and that information we receive, right, we're going to respond, we're going to react first, right? There's always reacting, you know, you say something that makes me angry, I can choose to swear or use some body language to tell you that I'm angry. But it's a different thing to process what you say and then respond appropriately or appropriate to the situation or appropriate to us. So, yeah, the emotions at times, we tend to think they are problems be solved, but they aren't.

 

Leighann Lovely  19:47

Right. Right and for so long. You know, and again, as a child I, for so long. My emotions were something that somebody else was trying to solve for me. You know, being somebody who was, I was, I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder in my 20s. But I struggled with, you know, other things as a child, so it was constantly, you know, you're sad, how do we make you happy? How do we, let's, let's figure this out, you know, what is you know, and it got to the point where it was just hide the emotions, because sometimes even showing those emotions, it gave the attention that I didn't want. So then it becomes, you know, just burying deep and down, and let's just pretend that you're not or, you know, just, again, I'm going down a path, I don't didn't necessarily want to go down. But there are, there's so many things that, you know, emotions that we learned as a kid that weren't necessarily or aren't necessarily the, the right course, to the way that we should. And we have learned now to, through emotional intelligence through and when did that book come? I mean, that book came out like, what it's been 10 Is it been 1014?

 

Roger Wolkoff  21:04

It's been a while I remember being introduced to it, you know, maybe 15, almost 20 years ago. Daniel Goleman. And Travis Bradbury and Jean graves. So I take a lot of work from Yeah, yeah, it's been around and, and, and what I loved about what you said earlier, is that, you know, we understand it now. And in the future, I'm hoping we can slice and dice it and get more fine tuned with it. You know, we have the opportunity to do that the more people embrace, embrace it, and practice it, and do research on it.

 

Leighann Lovely  21:37

Yeah. And now that you say that, I do remember the first time that I read that was a very long time ago, and it's, but it hit really mainstream, probably within the last 10. Like, about eight Yeah, so it wasn't long time ago that it cuz I remember somebody giving us me saying you should read this. And I'm like, Oh, I already read that, but a long time ago. But it's it's so interesting that you know, how people think that you that you have one control over your emotions? Oh, well, you shouldn't feel that way about this. Well, how do I have I you know, that's, that's something that's going on in my brain chemistry, that's, it's a, it's, you know, an inherit reaction that doesn't, that we don't physically have control over. It's, it's a chemical reaction that's happening within my body, and I'm going to feel the way that I'm going to feel I'm gonna have a reaction that I'm gonna have. Now maybe if I had more understanding of a situation that's, that's going on, I may have a different reaction. But what's happening is not your place to solve it. It's just trying to understand it. And I think more people need to have that desire to understand other people. And really, most things come down to trying to just be empathetic and understanding to other people, it goes back to the saying of, hey, walk a mile in somebody else's shoes. I guarantee, right, you're a guarantee that you're going to come back and you're going to have a different outlook on the situation. So you know, I'm interested to know, you've been you've been at this now for, like I said, nearly six years. So obviously, things have changed within the last two, and I can't believe that, you know, my gosh, the pandemic hits. Well, I can't What 19, 2019? Right. Yeah, yeah. 2020

 

Roger Wolkoff  23:28

Okay. Right into February, March 2020.

 

Leighann Lovely  23:31

Right, we're in we're in 2022. Now, aren't we? Yeah, I know, it's worth I know. So I can't believe it's been that long. It's it's insane to think that it's that this has been been part of our lives for that long. But so obviously, the the world looks very different today, over the last two years than it did when you originally started doing what you were doing. So what has changed? I mean, has, has your job been impacted? A great deal in, in the things that you address and the things that you talk about when you go and do? Do what you do?

 

Roger Wolkoff  24:08

Yeah, it changed dramatically, obviously, from being on a stage to being behind a camera. And that was fine. That that I quickly turned. But in terms of what my job is it, the pandemic and everything surrounding the pandemic, really, in my opinion, accentuated people's emotions, all across the spectrum. And we're seeing the effects of that we see reports of that coming out and some of the things that I that I started to do early on. I told you, I do interactive, a lot of interactive work. And one of the questions that I asked in all of my programs was, what emotions are you feeling right now? And I asked people to put three emotions in just three words. What are you feeling right now? And the three that came that that continue to come up the most often are tired, anxious, exhausted, you know, and I was like, wow, tired and exhausted. Okay? So those are those really go to the top in words like them go to the top. Sprinkled throughout there our messages are our words like hope curious, excited things like that. So it depends on where people are feeling. So the way that my job has changed, it's turned the dial up on paying attention to how people want to be seen and heard. If you want my opinion, glad you asked on what I think the great resignation is about, right? That's what I think has happened now with companies and how it's changed my job. People are looking for answers. And it's some of the answers have been the same all along, people want to be seen and heard. And if they're not being seen and heard, then they are leaving and starting their own companies starting other work doing something else that gives them joy, or jumping ship and going to a company that is going to listen to them. So for me what what it's done. It's the way it's impacted my job is it means that I too, and listening more to other people. And I've had to pay attention to my own particular burnout, my anxiety, keep my eyes out for you know how I'm dealing with my needs of being seen and heard. And for me, that shows up what I used to do a lot of in person networking. Not sure if it comes through, but I'm an extrovert. And so I really I enjoy being around people, I enjoy thinking around people. So what it meant for me was I had to change the way that I get my energy and, and pay attention to safety at the same time. So the way that it's changed is I'm having different conversations with companies. And I'm continuing to do what I did very early on in my career, which was listen more intently to what to what they need.

 

Leighann Lovely  27:01

And I suppose that it's from somebody who is very much an empath, you're used to being in the room with somebody who's reading the energy of individuals read the energy of people.

 

Roger Wolkoff  27:16

Yeah. Boy, did that have to change. I remember the first big zoom presentation I was doing. And I found myself missing that right. You know, normally I would be in the room. I'd be greeting people. I'd be talking to people what brought you here? What do you love about the city where you are? What do you love about the commune, I'd be engaging people in conversation and in conversation. And for me, I mean, it was also like filling me with energy. I'm like, you can see me kind of moving over here, I'm like ready to go on screen. And I had to find new ways to do that. And so that meant I now interact with people early, when I come on a virtual presentation, I engage them in the chat, or I come up with an exercise that gets everybody engaged. So I can tell through words and perhaps body language, and facial, facial language, what kind of group or crowd I have and make some interpretations that way. And I experimented with that early on and so far I've been on par with and doing well with with that. But yeah, it was quite an adjustment.

 

Leighann Lovely  28:26

Yeah, I can imagine and, and I'm very much like you I get great energy from being around other people I try to, you know, try to step into a crowd or I gravitate towards the energy in the room, you know, the people who are laughing the people who are, you know, excitable in the room, I have a tendency to gravitate towards those people versus the quiet people who are sitting at a table, you know, and I'm talking about, like, networking group, you're not going to find me sitting quietly at a table waiting for an event to start and you're going to you're gonna see me, you know, Flit flitting around the room talking to everybody. And you know, being the person that's, you know, being told three times, hey, the program is going to start we'll sit down and I'm going yes, yeah, I know. I know. I just got to get this one last word in. You know, it should be no wonder I run a podcast I I'm forcing people to sit down with me and talk with you know, it's right. There are people who get their energy from that. And then there's the opposite, where that exhausts them. And by the end of an event, they are running out the door completely ready to go home. Isolate and, and just, they need a break. And I right, and, hey, my husband is that way. After, you know, being around a ton of people. He's like, I can't I can't I just I just need a beat. I need to go relax, go play my video game. And I'm like, Okay, I don't get it. Like I have no understanding of it. I am understand like that you need that. I'll give that to you. But it doesn't make sense in my head. I don't understand why. I'm like, Well, I'm totally like revved up and ready to go. Let's do it again right now. You're syco

 

Roger Wolkoff  30:15

No, I get it. I learned early on, there were some people who coached me that in a group, like in an interactive session, call out the people who are quiet. And that seemed to not go that went against my grain. And so I stopped doing it. And I looked for I would look people in the eyes, and if they engaged, engage, but if they didn't, then that meant to me they were not comfortable and not ready to be called on. And so I was rewarded with that with with feedback is what I'm saying by reward after, after one of my programs in September, everybody was coming back from lunch, and a group of three women stopped me. And they say, Oh, we enjoyed the presentation, I said, thank you. And they said, I want to thank you so much for, you know, noticing that we did not want to engage, we've been in in sessions just like this. And presenters will always call on us because they think we're a challenge. And they want you know, it's about them. And, you know, they just want to they just want to make us talk and we want to say thank you, because this is one of the first times that that's never happened. And I thought, wow, wow. It, it validated what I thought about, you know, being able to read an audience incense, perhaps, correctly or incorrectly, but mostly correctly, that there are times in places for putting, asking people to step outside their comfort zone. So it's another learning and I won't do you know, I won't do that. I won't call out people in chat either. If they're not responding on Zoom, either, you know, if you're going to participate, you're going to participate. So just another awareness, as we talked about that, you know, in respecting where they come from,

 

Leighann Lovely  31:59

right, there are certain people who like to be pushed. And then then there, there are a great deal of people who don't want to be pushed, they want to come absorb the information and walk away. And you clearly have figured out a way to, to understand who those people are. And that's, that's a gift. That is definitely a gift because then there's me, I'm just espousal walk up to anybody, and just be like, Hey, I'm in your face, talk to me. Yeah, when they don't respond, I do. Let them go off. You know, I let them off the hook and walk away and all that, like, You're crazy. Anyways, okay, so we're coming to time. So I'm going to ask you the question of the season. If you could pinpoint a time period in your career that made a huge difference in your in your life or your career path? When would that be in white? Do you want me to repeat that?

 

Roger Wolkoff  32:49

I got to. Okay, I got you. I follow the thread. I find the thread. Yeah, what a great question for the season. I applaud that. For me, I gotta tell you, when I took a an assessment, it was called Managing personal growth. This was while I was in corporate. So I took managing personal growth about 10 to 15 years ago. And it was it was a an assessment and instrument that my manager and I took. And the course was about identifying my values and the skills required to do the work that I was doing as a project manager. And I, I answer as honestly as I could. So I love the part about values. It's where I found out about, you know, I value freedom mine, I value pleasure, I enjoy experiences, that was a great part. The fun part was when the the magic behind the scenes crossed the skills with what my manager said my job should be. And what I answered. There was only a 5% overlap. I was like, huh, this ought to be a fun conversation. Wow. Yeah. And thank goodness, I had a very kind manager, Brenda, she, she said, I'm not surprised. And I thought, Wow, that's great. So immediately, we had a very kind conversation. So the aha moment for me, the big difference was, I was doing work that was not fulfilling me. And it was a pivotal moment because it set me on a path to say well, what kind of work do you enjoy? It stopped me from saying I should be doing x I should be making X amount of money I should should write, you know, we know about what happens when you should on yourself. So I, I thought, okay, she said, What do you want to do? I said, I want to get up in front of people in train, I want to I want to, I want to see light bulbs go off on you know, I want them I want them to feel like you know that they make a difference, right? How do I go about doing that? I was just very broad with it. And she said, Well, let's get you on a path to do that. And we started and it took me it took me another three four years before I finally listened. And to the advice there I was really I was my own personal barrier. But but that time taking that assessment, finding my values and realizing that there was some good things that I that I could do as a project manager, I mean, I, I was a good project manager, I just didn't enjoy doing some of this stuff. So I took what I enjoyed out of it, like I said earlier, facilitating, being able to work a room, being able to identify barriers work with people. And that's when I started on my journey to figure out how to make a career out of it and start my own business.

 

Leighann Lovely  35:31

That's amazing. Now, you said she wasn't surprised. Right? How surprised were you?

 

Roger Wolkoff  35:40

I know, it's interesting. That's a great question. Leann. I, I don't think I made room for surprise. I was so fearful at the time that I was going to get fired. That I was going to get found out that I you know, that somebody was going to realize that I really didn't enjoy this kind of work. And that I so how surprised was I? If I look back on it, I would have to say I was not very, you know, looking back on it when it died when it started listing out the things that you know, I meet that were highly valued in the in the work, and how much I enjoyed compared to how much I enjoyed them. That was not a surprise. So honestly, I can tell you right now, it wasn't that much of a surprise.

 

Leighann Lovely  36:25

Right? You deep down, you knew that you did not enjoy the work. It was a job that you went to do and you

 

Roger Wolkoff  36:36

Go to Job, show up, do work, get paid? Repeat, you know, and there wasn't, in my opinion, any room for joy or dreaming about what it is I really wanted to do. And yeah, let's learn learned.

 

Leighann Lovely  36:50

Right now, how many people do you think are out there? That that's what they do?

 

Roger Wolkoff  36:57

They? Yeah, just go to work punch ticket, get paid. Come back, do it again. I don't boy. Gosh, I don't know. I'd say based on what, based on what I read, I'd say anyway, this is a rough guess 60 to 80% of people are not doing work that they enjoy. And I think that has to do with how engaged they feel in the work now being engaged. I think that's a two way street, it's up to the employee and the employer. But based on the data, I'd say it's somewhere around that, that people are not doing work that they were either meant to do or that they enjoy doing.

 

Leighann Lovely  37:31

Right. And, and I don't think that it's it's that hard of the fix. Because people can go and people can go and do a job I could. If I needed to provide for my family, I could go and do. Right, whatever every day. And I could enjoy it if the company found a way to make me feel truly valued. Now, what happened when you got your results to that was that your manager didn't say, Well, how dare you not enjoy this? She said, how can we build on this? How can we? How can we offer something more that you will enjoy? And eventually, you know, you left them but you found more fulfillment in trying new things and trying to get a little bit more. So you did stay for what another three years?

 

Roger Wolkoff  38:28

Right? Another three, four years? Yeah, right.

 

Leighann Lovely  38:31

So it sometimes it's not about the work so much. Because there are individuals out there who don't mind the work. They're not not necessarily fulfilled by the work. They may not have skills to do anything else. But if their company were to offer them an awesome environment, offer them i Hey, you're doing a really great job. We're having a company picnic this weekend, bring your family, we'd love to see you there we really want and truly engage in their employees. I guarantee that that employee would be at least at least 25 to 30% happier at that employment. And just that little I mean, and that's just the the beginning. Now with every other employee at that company had a better attitude, and enjoyed going to that job because their employer also, you know, treated them well. I guarantee that number would go from 22 to 30 up to 40% because all of a sudden now you have employees engaging with other employees. Now they're not standing around the watercooler talking about how shitty their employer is. They're talking about, Hey, did you see the game? Hey, did you and you have camaraderie happening? Totally. Totally. And I just And yes, you know I say oh, it's not that hard of a fix. We're talking about overhauling the culture of every company in the world. Well, we're in the United States at least. But it happens when a company decides we need to make a change. That's the first step. Right? It is, and nothing's nothing ever happens. ever happens if you don't make a decision to make it happen, I guess. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's got to start somewhere. And there are so many coaches, there are so many companies out there that are popping up saying, hey, we want to help you with that. We can make your company better, we can offer this, Hey, come listen to my podcast I'm trying to help you. Right. And then I can maybe put you in contact with somebody who can be a motivational speaker for you and talk to you.

 

Roger Wolkoff  40:52

Right, that's the way this all works. And that's why I was saying Were you and I are doing great work and helping people, one person, one group at a time. And that's the value that I love about being on podcasts like yours that is doing such good work. So thank you for keeping the message going. And thank you for for having me on.

 

Leighann Lovely  41:13

Thank you so much, Roger, this has been a great conversation. I really appreciate your time today. And again, we are doing great work on you know, you just have an amazing background. And you know, maybe one of these days I'll have the opportunity to I don't know hear you speak.

 

Roger Wolkoff  41:28

Maybe. Maybe I get out there.

 

Leighann Lovely  41:31

All right. Thank you so much.

 

Roger Wolkoff  41:35

You're welcome. Thank you, Leighann.

 

Leighann Lovely  41:36

If you are interested in reaching out to Roger Wolkoff. You can reach him at his website on www dot Roger walkoff.com or reach out to him on LinkedIn. You can also reach out to him at his email address. Roger at Roger wall cough calm. Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode to follow us like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.

 

Roger’s Profile - linkedin.com/in/rogerwolkoff

Website - rogerwolkoff.com

Email - roger@rogerwolkoff.com

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