Heaven On Earth Homestead

Today I'm talking with Sami at Heaven On Earth Homestead. You can also follow on Facebook.

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00:00
This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Sammy at Heaven on Earth Homestead. Hi, Sammy, how are you? I'm good. Thank you. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. So I was, I found you on Instagram.

00:27
And I was looking at your Instagram page and your Facebook page and you and I could have been really good friends about 20 years ago. Oh, wow. Because, because 20 years ago, I was doing the same things that you're doing right now with all the preserving food and stuff. And I'm still doing it, but just not as heavily because my kids are grown and it's only a couple of people in the house now. Fair enough. So we could have gotten together and roasted squash and bagged it up and

00:57
homesteading and preserving, it would have been really fun. So tell me about what you do. So we are on just about an acre of land. It's actually quite small, but we try to utilize it the best we can. So we started this journey maybe about 12 years ago, when our oldest was almost eight years old. And we're having a...

01:25
They were having a bunch of health problems and we were seeing a ton of specialists and taking a ton of medicine. I work in healthcare. I'm a respiratory therapist by trade. And so I was just really concerned and we were at another gastroenterology appointment, I think, for reflux and all kinds of other things, autoimmune related. And I was just kind of airing my frustration and saying, you know, like, I don't understand why my eight-year-old is on eight medicines twice a day when...

01:54
You know, my 80 year old grandmother is not even on this much. And he's, he kind of said, you know, well, the only thing I can really offer as a physician is to add another medication for these problems. And I was just so disheartened, but I just wanted them to feel better. So I said, well, you know, is there any

02:16
anything non-traditional that we could try. And he said, well, I have a couple of patients who have Crohn's and IBS and other things that have tried an anti-inflammatory diet and they've seen great success with that. So he gave me the name of a book and we bought the book. I read it overnight and my husband went to work the next day when he came home. I had all the food in the house boxed up. He said, we're going to try this for 30 days. We're eating nothing.

02:46
that could cause inflammation in the body, we're going to reset all of our immune systems, I bought into it a thousand percent." And he was like, okay, how are we going to do this? And I said, we'll figure it out. I don't, you know, it'll be fine. We'll figure it out. And so we, for 30 days, we ate very strictly anti-inflammatory, no sugar, no dairy, no gluten, no grains, you know, it was no beans. It was all kinds of things that we couldn't have anything of.

03:13
And after 30 days, my child went from taking eight medications twice a day to taking an inhaler as needed for asthmatic symptoms.

03:23
Good job, mama. And I realized I was inadvertently poisoning my kid with just regular standard food and I was so frustrated. And then it kind of, that's kind of where this journey began and it kind of spiraled into all this. So it's been a long time coming, but we finally, we relocated so we could have some more land and be in a better climate. So we had a longer growing season. And so where we are now.

03:51
We have a very large garden. We have laying hens and we do meat birds in chicken tractors. And we have a very beautiful little community here where we live of friends that we've made who are kind of of like mindset. And so we have friends who do beef and friends who do pork and friends who do lamb and goat. And so we kind of all work together to make sure all of our families have what we need and support each other. And it's been just a...

04:20
beautiful journey. So it's nice to meet other people who are of like mine because sometimes you kind of get the hairy eye when you explain things in public. Yes, absolutely you do. And we've gotten it too and I just ignore it now. I'm like, you don't have to do what we're doing. You keep doing what you're doing. We're all good. Absolutely. So I'm really impressed that you asked the doc for

04:48
different solution and I'm really impressed that the doctor said hey you could you could look into this because a lot of our medical professionals don't don't give you answers like that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Which is why I said good job mama because you were a great advocate for your kid. I'm so proud of you because it takes a lot of guts and courage to stand up and say I am

05:15
not okay with the answers I'm getting, I need a different answer to the question I'm asking. Absolutely. And then, you know, once you're on something, you get side effects, and then you're going, is that a symptom or a side effect? And, you know, they just kept saying, well, we could add this medicine or we could do this thing. And really, the only thing that really did help long term were allergy shots. And that was just because they were allergic to everything, grass, trees, pollen, you know, just every single thing.

05:46
And we were just astounded when we got the allergy test back. So we did do that and that has seemed to help quite a bit. And so we're happy now they're at college. So it's a little, it's a little bit nerve wracking because we're trying to kind of, you know, we had to pick a college that had, um, you know, anti-allergen dining and you just kind of have to plan, but as long as you, you know, what you're up against, then you, you know, are just diligent about it.

06:15
you can make it work. And you know, they wanted to go away to college. So we made that happen. Awesome. Awesome. I love that you've worked this hard for your child. And there's a reason that I say that, um, my parents and I were talking yesterday about the shooting in Madison, Wisconsin. That happened. My dad, my dad is 81. My mom is 78. Okay. I'm 55. They raised me and my two siblings. I've raised four kids.

06:45
And we were talking about why this stuff keeps happening. And we came to the conclusion that a lot of parents don't parent, daycares parent. And my dad, he's a really smart man and he's very opinionated and I love him to pieces. And my mom is following in his footsteps. She was very shy when she was young, but she's gotten a lot more outspoken as she's gotten older.

07:13
And I said to my parents, I said, you know, I said, when I was a teenager, I didn't appreciate you guys watching every move I made. I said, but having been a parent, now I really appreciate the fact that you parented me. So, so I'm going on a limb here, but I feel like if you're going to have kids, maybe you want, might want to actually spend some time with them and, and care for them and not put them in daycare and spend, you know, maybe 12 hours a week with them.

07:42
And that may piss people off, but I'm sorry, it's how I feel. Well, I mean, I absolutely agree. I just feel like if you're going to have children, that's the biggest responsibility of your life is that's your legacy when you leave this earth. You know, and if you don't pour into them everything you can, you're you're missing the mark.

08:03
Yeah, and kids are amazing. Like the joy of my life was watching my children learn and become functioning humans, you know? It still is. Absolutely. It still is. Absolutely. And my daughter is the oldest and she's 35 and she called me the other day and she was like, I love my job. She just got a new job like a couple months ago. And it's not a fancy job, it's a job. And she is having a ball.

08:31
with this new job and her voice was ringing and she sounded so happy and she's learning new things that she's good at. She was already good at them, but now she's actually putting them into practice with her job. And I was just so filled with pride that she's really coming into her own, you know? Absolutely. And I think a big part of parenting, especially in today's climate is...

09:00
Teaching your kids that happiness isn't keeping up with Joneses, happiness is finding happiness where you are with what you have, and that having it all really isn't having it all anymore. No, and the thing is, they used to say, especially about women, you can have it all, you know, when women finally got jobs and had the right to get divorced and to drive and to vote and all this stuff. And the big thing was, you can have it all. You can do it all. No.

09:30
Not all at the same time. Not unless you want to be in an early grave from exhaustion and anxiety. Exactly. And I do think. So you're right. Absolutely. And I think that we find a lot of peace and joy in a slower lifestyle, in the homesteading lifestyle. Like I think if I didn't enjoy cooking and I didn't enjoy gardening as much as I do, this would be very difficult.

09:58
but I find peace in it. The reason we're called Heaven on Earth Homestead is because when we moved here, my husband is phenomenal at carpentry. It's just a hobby of his. But he built my garden, he built our chicken coops, and he's kind of engineered this, so I tell him he's the engineer of my dreams. But the reason we call it Heaven on Earth is because he would say, what are you doing out here? I'm just hanging out in my little slice of Heaven on Earth.

10:26
And that was just kind of our thing together, you know, and I find a deep connection religiously in the garden. Like when I'm struggling and I have questions, I go in there to kind of ruminate and it helps me really think and it gives me that kind of relaxing calm and I'm getting things done, but I, you know, when the beans aren't growing and I'm wondering why aren't the beans growing and I hear, you know, well, the beans aren't growing because you're not nurturing them. I'm like, one of my kids is struggling. I'm going, why is my kid struggling? Well, you're not.

10:56
It's kind of the same thing, you know, you kind of get answers through the little things. And so that's kind of where heaven on earth came from. I'm glad you told me that because I was going to ask. I didn't even have to ask the question. You just volunteered the answer. Thank you. So I have questions because I have been where you're at with this whole homesteading thing because we started homesteading on a tenth of an acre. Oh, wow.

11:25
over 20 years ago with a little garden and we had flowers and stuff and taught myself to crochet so I'd make my kids scarves and hats and things. And the first time I had something come out right that I did with my own brain and my own hands, I was so happy and high for like a week. And I told everybody, I told my mom, I told my kids, well my kids knew because they were there. I told my mom.

11:55
told my mother-in-law, told my neighbors about, you know, oh, we put away, I don't know, 25 gallon bags of butternut squash that we grew from seeds, da da da. And everybody was like, oh, that's really nice. That's cool. And that was it. Right. But I was so excited about it. So when you first did something like that, did you have that same feeling about it? Absolutely.

12:24
Absolutely. And I was so excited to talk about it. And I would go to work and at the hospital, and I'd be telling people, I got these seeds from the seed company, and they all germinated. And I was really worried because I wasn't sure if I got the seed mix right. And I would just start going off. And if somebody would ask a question, it was polite conversation. I would go off on a TG, you kind of see their eyes glaze over, like politely listening, but really not interested. And I would get so bummed out. So then when I found

12:50
You know, you find your people, the people who are really interested in it and you can geek out together. It's just so rewarding. That's why I started this podcast because I don't have a whole lot of people to geek out over things with right now. And luckily we made some friends who are doing kind of the same thing we're doing and they live five miles away. So, so when they come to visit, it's really fun because they're like we got piglets and we're like what kind and what do you do?

13:17
and what do they need and how big are they going to get? And they're like, oh, and they just talk and smile and laugh. And it's amazing. So yeah, having, I don't want to, I mean, I do want to use the word fellowship, but I'm not saying in a religious way, I'm saying in a commonality way is so important.

13:38
Absolutely. And it really has, especially where we are now, we moved five hours away from our closest family member to be where we are, so we could have land and be in the right climate and all the things. And it was really hard because we both have very large families to kind of make that jump and just do it. And so when we got down here, we knew nobody. And then we had a baby as soon as we got here. So it was like, we don't have any family, we don't know anybody. And it was so great.

14:08
to kind of have people come out of the woodwork and just cultivate a community of friends and kind of turn them into our local family here. And it's been a really cool journey to meet people of all different places in life, all different ages, all different backgrounds, and everyone's interested and we're all learning from each other. And did you see this and you should try this? And it's exciting and it's fun. I absolutely agree. It is.

14:35
I don't know about you, but when I get talking homesteading or podcasting, because podcasting is my new baby. I've only been doing it for a little over a year, so it's still new. And I get talking with people who are into those things. It's so fun. And like, my heart gets too big for my chest. You know, I just, I feel like I'm swallowed up with happiness because, oh, somebody gets it. Exactly.

15:03
So it's been really neat doing the podcast because I get to talk to people at least three times a week, if not five times a week for at least half an hour about things that I'm interested in, but to people who are doing it differently than I am, which was kind of the point of doing the podcast in the first place. Right. And I learned all kinds of things. And there are a million right ways. Uh-huh.

15:29
Yeah. And I learned so much from everybody because I don't necessarily do things the way everybody else does. So they're like, we, we do this. And I'm like, I need to do that that way and see how it works because we're doing it a different way and it's not working great. So Right. I definitely understand that. When we first started doing our laying hens, my husband built this beautiful mobile chicken tractor that had a great nesting spot and it had

15:58
like indoor perches and all these things. And we ran them on the grass, just thinking we really don't have enough space to put a stationary coop and, you know, just kind of making the most of what we had. And we realized very quickly that we were going to need chicken math. We were going to need way more. We were going to want way more chickens than we had. And that there was no way in a 32 square foot, two story, you know, mobile coop we were going to be able to get.

16:27
the volume that we wanted for what we wanted to do. You know, we have to make our own pasta and we have to make, because what we found out was that our child was allergic to basically all food dyes and all food preservatives. And so we kind of, that's kind of how it all started and kind of how we got to where we are was we had to learn very quickly how to do it all ourselves. Because in 2009,

16:58
2010, there was really not a ton on the market that you could get that was organic and didn't have food dyes. And that kind of became trendy later. And so we needed more eggs. And so after it painstakingly took months to engineer and build this, we used it for a year and realized, oh, we could better utilize these chickens in a stationary coop with deep bedding to make compost for our ever growing garden and alleviate the middleman.

17:29
We live in pine country, so we can get wood chips free at any point in time. They'll deliver them right to your driveway because they, you know, any of the leftovers when they're milling in an area, they just bring it to us. Nice. So it ended up working out, you know, for us to have a stationary coop. So we use the mobile tractors now for our meat birds. But so, you know,

17:51
And we thought at first all, we'll just have a couple on the grass and it'll be fine. They'll get fresh grass every day. And they're very happy, but we needed more chickens than it could sustain. So I definitely understand you kind of sometimes you have to work through it and find out what works for you and you don't make it work. Yeah. I feel like homesteading is an ever evolving process. Yes. It's never done. It's, it's a, it's a running document of ideas. They get tried out when they need to get tried out. Yes.

18:22
when it becomes a necessity to change the procedure, then you change the procedure. Yeah. Honestly, the way that you are doing your life is beautiful. I mean, we definitely don't eat the way that you eat because we're not in that situation. We don't have a child and we don't have any food aversions or allergies or reactions that would require us to do what you're doing.

18:50
We definitely utilize the stuff that comes out of our garden in the summer because it's really good food and we're going to use it. Absolutely. So, I was also going to ask you about the little wreath ornament that you have the picture of on your social media. I made those when I was younger in Girl Scouts and I saw it and I was like, oh, I've made those. So, where did you find out about that?

19:20
undiagnosed ADHD until I was 35. But hindsight is 2020. So I realized when I was about six years old, both sets of my grandparents, I spent a ton of time with both of them. I had two working parents and I was a latchkey kid. So I would, you know, my choice, I didn't want to be home alone. I'd spend a ton of time with my grandparents. And so I realized now that I'm older, I had so much energy and I was bouncing off the wall. So both of my

19:48
needle craft. So I learned embroidery, I learned knitting, I learned crocheting at a very early age and it's just kind of been a passion throughout my life, you know, and it's easy to pick up and put down as you need it and I enjoy doing it, especially in the winter when there's not a ton to do outside. But

20:06
Probably about the same time that we started doing all this, we started going on, I started going on medical missions trips with the church that we were at at the time. And so in order to fund that, I was making baby blankets anyway for the girls at work, but they said, you should make hats and scarves and fingerless gloves and all these things and sell them. So we started making hats and gloves and scarves and selling them. And that was how we would fund the missions trips.

20:34
And so it kind of became a thing amongst all the people that knew me was, Hey, if you need something as Sam, she can make you a baby blanket or a hat or a scarf or a gift for someone. And so when I started doing this, I was kind of going, okay, well, at certain times of year, I don't really have much to post. We're not really doing a ton because the preservation is over and we're not quite ready to seed anything and there's not a ton going on. So.

20:59
I was asking friends at work, you know, what do you want to see now? Like, because we started the page because especially during COVID, we had already been doing all of this. And so people were getting very nervous and scared and they were saying, you know, well, how do you do this and how do you do that? And how do you do this? And I was repeating myself at nauseam at work. And the one nurse practitioner at work was like, you should just start a YouTube page. And I was like, I don't know anything about YouTube. Like I watch YouTube, but I don't know how to.

21:26
I don't have a fancy camera and I don't know how to edit. It just seemed like so much of an undertaking. And she said, what about photographic posts on Instagram or Facebook where you could kind of say how you do things or put up a recipe or however, information. So if people are interested, they can kind of get a bite of information every day. And I was like, oh, that's a great idea. So we kind of hemmed and hauled over it a little bit. And finally I said, all right, I'm going to do it. And so that's kind of how it all started. So I was saying, well, what do you want to see now? And they were like...

21:55
You never post anything about your crochet. So I kind of take pictures of stuff as I do it. And on those days that I don't really have a ton to post, I'll pull one out and kind of put it out there. And so, um, one of my friends has a stall at a farmer's market. And, uh, she was saying, you know, this time of year, we don't, they don't have, they, they sell grains and beef and other things, but they don't really have a ton coming out either in their stall is year round. So she said, I know you make beautiful stuff. You know, if you have anything you want.

22:23
to put up, I'm making hodgepodge and craft stuff right now for Christmas. So she said, if you want to, you know, add anything, let me know. And so I just kind of got a huge inspiration and I was like, Oh, let me look online and see anything I could find. And so I've been making all kinds of different baubles and things for the tree. And I found a picture of that and I was like, I could do that. I have a ton of old rusty canny lids that I have no nothing to use them for, but I've been holding onto them. So I'm like, this is

22:52
a great way to utilize those and not waste them and then.

22:57
someone else can enjoy them. Yeah, we made them with the actual rubber seals that they used to have for the canning jars. Oh yeah. That's how we did it. And it made them kind of bendy, which was nice. And the other difference in how we did it from what I saw on yours is my mom was co-leader. So she picked up some of those little tiny jingle bells. Yes. And she had us sew three jingle bells on the wreath so that when they got knocked, when you walked by the tree, they would ring.

23:27
That's so cute. I love that idea. Yeah, and the minute I saw it I saw the picture. I was like, oh my god I remember making those I think I was 12 and It was the first time I'd held a crochet hook in my life was when we made those and girls to make those that's so neat Yeah, and they're so cute and they're so easy and yeah Grandparents love those kinds of ornaments Absolutely, absolutely

23:56
So they're very old fashioned and very homesteadish. So I think it's just great. I do. I love that aesthetic. So we kind of, we didn't really buy into it for a while, but now I've just owned it. There's mason jars everywhere and braided garlic and the whole nine. Yes. Mason jars are the best thing ever invented. I swear to God, I use them for my peony bouquets in the springtime. I use them for spruce vows at Christmas time. They're just, they're just the most

24:27
What's the word I want? I can't think of the word I want. Versatile. Versatile, yes. They are the most versatile container ever known to man. Absolutely. We just, well, my husband just canned 34 pint jars of tomato sauce from the tomatoes that we picked from our garden and froze. He just did that this weekend when I was working on podcast things. I was so impressed. I'm like...

24:55
I'm like, you know, if you could just wait till next weekend, I can help you. And he was like, I got it. Go do the thing you love to do. I was like, okay, perfect. I'm going to go do podcast stuff. And I came downstairs and he had 34 jars. Well, I had, he had the sauce cooked down for 34 pint jars. And I was just like, Oh my God, I love you. You're the sexiest thing ever. Right. And he just laughed. I love language.

25:20
He just laughed. He said, yeah, he said, we're both 55 years old and the sexy things are hard work. I'm like, yes, yes it is. That's exactly right. Absolutely. Absolutely. The other thing I was going to say about Christmas ornaments is one of the other things that we did in Girl Scouts, because I of course went down the memory train when I saw the wreath. We took Christmas cards and cut like a house shape out of the picture on the Christmas card. Oh yeah.

25:50
And then we took little toothpicks and made a little roof and little walls around the edges. And those were really cute too for Christmas. That sounds adorable. My kids would love that actually. Yep, and they're really cute on the tree. And if you get one of the Christmas cards that has the metallic stuff on it, the glitter or the paint that is shiny, when the light hits it, it glows. So they're really pretty.

26:18
That's cool. We're definitely gonna have to try that Yeah, and I swear we have lost so many neat things like that in the last I don't know 30 years I feel like it. Oh, I feel like kids don't get encouraged to be creative anymore No, they just sit in front of the TV and watch somebody else do it And it's so sad because I feel like

26:45
You know, we were made for creation. Like, I just feel like that's, I think that's why I enjoy this so much because it's so cool to, you know, plant a seed and see it grow and come to fruition and make something out of it. And, you know, it just, it's very rewarding, but at the same time, when you're eight or 10 or 12 or whatever, you know, something as little as making something, it gives you fulfillment. It gives you that happy, joyful fulfillment. And at the same time, it gives you great memories for later.

27:14
Your kids aren't going to remember watching YouTube or, you know, watching somebody else do something, but they're going to remember when you sat down and made shrinkadinks with them or, you know, made a wreath or something. Yeah, there's, I feel like kids are lacking a sense of personal accomplishment in the smallest ways these days. Absolutely. Like my youngest son still lives with us and he'll be 23 at the end of this month.

27:43
And he and his dad, well, his dad was building a greenhouse this year, hard side of greenhouses past May. And he asked for our son's help. And my son was like, sure, of course. And they basically built this greenhouse. It's like 40 by 20 feet. They built it. We had a friend come over and help one day.

28:08
And he was not very experienced. He was, the help was very much appreciated, but he was learning as he went. So he helped, but my son and my husband basically built this gorgeous greenhouse. And my son came in just smiling, you know, just like, wow, that was really hard work, but it was really great. Absolutely. And my husband came in and he was like, thank God we had that kid late in life because we need his back. I was like, yes, we do.

28:37
It's very helpful, that is for sure. So even when they're young adults, just being involved in getting their hands on actual work and doing it and seeing the result, there's such a thing that happens inside their brain and their heart. Absolutely. My mother's parents had a farm, and so I spent a ton of time on their farm as a kid.

29:06
primarily vegetable farming. And we would spend all day outside. We never went in the house. There was no air conditioning. And so you didn't wanna go in the stuffy house. And it was just an unconscious thing. You just went with them and did whatever they did. And you helped and you learned and you weren't in imposition. And at the end of the day, you were tired because you worked and you slept well and you woke up the next day refreshed and ready to go. And I feel like the...

29:35
kids today don't really get that. They get kind of parked in front of something so we can get something accomplished fast. Because I feel like today is about efficiency and productivity and all these things where before it was pouring your knowledge into the next generation. And so I think we kind of have, my husband and I kind of have a unique, maybe not unique, but less road, less traveled kind of background. Because my husband spent a ton of time on his.

30:04
sister's in-laws farm when he was a kid. He was a late baby in life too, so but his siblings are a lot older than him so he spent a ton of time with them. He was young doing work on the farm as well so I think we kind of both have that in common. Yes, and I realize that it sounds like we're trying to convert the world to doing it the way we're doing it and I don't necessarily think that. I just, I feel like if you have

30:33
the capability to maybe slow down and think about what you really want out of life and then make a plan to get that, then maybe you're inclined to do homesteading or gardening or baking or whatever and make that a thing. If you're not inclined that way, that's okay too. You know? Absolutely. If you want to be a double income family and you want to have your kids be in daycare,

31:02
and you want to try to give them things that you didn't have as a kid and you spend time with them on the weekends, that's fine. But that's not how we did it. It's not how you're doing it. And it's not how a lot of the people that I talked to on the podcast are doing it. So I don't want to alienate people, but I also want to be compassionate about everybody's place in their life, that they're doing things the way they do them. Absolutely.

31:32
And it doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. You know, if you don't have any desire to garden and you don't like bugs or heat, you know, because the reality of gardening is it's beautiful in the spring and it's great in the fall. But in the summer, when it's a heat index of one hundred and eight, you don't want to be out there. You know, you have to want to do it. You know, if you just want to do some sourdough in the house or you just, you know, you just want to try something, it's it's rewarding. Try it. You know, baking or.

31:58
You know, whatever, you don't have to do it all. It's, you know, I have some friends at work who were talking this weekend and they were like, I just want to learn how to make butter. I'm like, okay, go to the store and buy some cream and here's the post. And here's how you can do it. It's so easy, you know, and they're like, wow, I didn't even realize that's how it was made or brown sugar or, you know, just something easy. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing, but it's very empowering to have that little bit of knowledge and just know I can do that if I wanted to.

32:27
Yes, and the thing is anybody can try anything. And even if it fails, there's value in the trying. Because you learn from your mistakes. Absolutely. I didn't walk out of the gate gardening of 2,500 square foot garden without some losses. You know, the first year I guarded, I put all of my eggplants like eight inches apart, and then I put my zucchini like a foot apart and they were

32:55
all over each other, they were riddled with disease. I couldn't find them. And then when I found the zucchini, they were like 10 pounds zucchini. You know, what if you do it? This, you know, it's just kind of, that's just life. And you kind of have to laugh at it and go, well, next year I'll play them further apart. There's always next year. That's the best part. There's always another try. So even if you fail, laugh at yourself and try again. You just, you just made me think of something. Back when I was in junior high and high school,

33:24
I was pushed real hard to be perfect on my tests and my homework. Like if I got A on a test, like if I got 100%, I would get the question, why wasn't it 110%? And I don't think I'm the only kid in my generation or the next couple that got that. I wonder if we have been programmed that if we can't do it right the first time, it shouldn't be done.

33:53
I feel like that is definitely a lesson I also learned later in life. I think there was a big shift in the 80s and 90s to, you know, where manual labor was kind of looked down upon and you have to go to college and you have to get a power job and you have to push yourself and, you know, kind of like you said, that was when women were two income families and everybody's working. And I feel like that was definitely a big, a big thing. Set yourself up for success. And you know,

34:22
start out strong and all the things. And I think a lot of people kind of are accepting the slow down now as a result of burnout from that. And realizing that there is value in working with your hands and creating something or learning a skill and it's okay to be proud of yourself for making a mistake and learning from it.

34:46
And I think that's just the symptom of society that I think a lot of people are finding joy in these simple things because they're tired of the difficult and the, I don't even know what the word would be, the competition. There was always competition. Everything was so much, you have to be the best and why aren't you the best or whatever it was. Even among my friends in high school, I remember it always kind of felt like a competition.

35:15
And it never had to be. And I think that was a big lesson I learned having kids and raising them in the way that I wanted them to know that it was okay not to have a competition. And you're just running your own race. And as long as you're happy with where you're at, that's all that really matters. Yeah, exactly. And again, you're pointing out something else that I hadn't really thought about until I talked to you today. I don't feel like there's a whole lot of competition

35:44
between people who are doing what we're doing. I think it's more lifting each other up and teaching each other and being there for each other. Absolutely. And the wonder of learning, you know, there's 25 ways to do every single thing that we do. And even more, if you think about all the different climates and the different places and altitudes, and you know, kind of all of that, there's so many different ways to do something. So there's always a cool, different way to see how someone does something and learn from them.

36:13
or just get excited for them. Like you said, you're doing what you were doing, what we're doing 20 years ago, and you can be excited for what we're doing now. And I can look at you and say, man, in 20 years, my husband and my son might be building me a 20 by 40 greenhouse. And that would be so cool. And that's a joy. That's a cool part of this. Yeah, it's amazing, because I look back at the things that we were doing.

36:40
20 something years ago and we were just doing them because it was interesting and because my husband's mother said, would you like some of the irises and the lilies from my yard because she was selling her house. And we didn't have a garden or anything at that point and we put them in the little area in front of our bedroom windows that run it on the sidewalk and they grew and they were beautiful and I was like, this gardening thing is kind of cool. Right? It is.

37:09
And I said, could we maybe try growing some tomatoes and cucumbers next spring? And he's like, where? And I said, in the backyard. And he said, but it's all grass. And I said, can't eat grass. And he laughed. Right. And we ended up tilling up that whole backyard and growing basically in every square inch of dirt we had so that we had tomatoes and cucumbers and carrots. And I don't even know green beans and rhubarb and herbs.

37:37
and stuff and we started out really small and really slow. But by the time we moved four years ago, we had enough food to give our neighbors garbage, not, not, not, grocery bags of produce because we had too much. Absolutely. So it's, it's really interesting how the things that we do are cumulative in impact.

38:05
You know, you learn to do one thing and you have some success and then you're like, huh, I did that. Maybe I could do more or different or bigger or whatever a year from now. And you just keep growing, just like plants keep growing. Exactly. And there's always something new to learn or try. So you stay fresh, you know, it stays exciting. Yeah.

38:39
I think that's one of the coolest, I just think that's one of the coolest things about it is that it stays exciting. You know, like I said, my grandparents had a vegetable farm. My other set of grandparents were first generation immigrants. My grandmother was from England and they met during World War II. And so she had a very unique way of doing things that seemed very alien to me when I was young. But I loved it. I thought it was super cool. You know,

39:07
she always harvested rainwater because they didn't always have a hose. And she always composted because England was a small island and they weren't bringing a lot of things in. So if you didn't compost, you couldn't grow your victory garden. And she always had a victory garden, but she had this beautiful stair step flower garden.

39:33
which was such a difference from my mother's parents who just had vegetable fields everywhere. There was no flowers in their yard. There was no, if you couldn't eat it, they couldn't grow it, which is what made me think of that. But my grandmother would grow, you know, she had berry bushes and she had, you know, she had a little greenhouse and all the things, but her primary joy was to flower garden and have just beautiful landscaping. And so it was cool, cause I kind of got both sides of it. My grandmother just did the things that she did

40:02
my father's mother did things that she learned growing up in England during that time because that was just her normal. That was her comfort. And so I learned a lot of that as a kid just because that's what she did. Whereas my mother's parents were growing more for production and sales. They had a roadside stand and we sold produce. And so it was kind of nice to get both sides of that and see it.

40:32
And so when I grew up, I, you know, we were in that Excel, Excel, Excel. I had no desire to garden or any of that. I was going to school and I was going to get a good job and I was going to work and I didn't have time for that. And I just kind of, we kind of hit that, that wall with our oldest. And I was like, you know what? I'm so stressed out and I feel like maybe if I just had a little bit of home with me, it would be cool. And I just put it in a little garden and that's kind of...

41:00
where the piece of the garden came from for me. But I, so I never vegetable garden or I never flower garden until we moved down here. And it kind of started for me as there was a few flowers and bulbs in the landscaping when we bought our house here. But I really wanted to encourage pollinators cause we grow organically and we don't use any pesticides or herbicides or anything like that. And so

41:28
I wanted to encourage pollinators. So I just started planning any, I would get wildflower mixes and I would get any kind of cheap seed packets I could find and just started throwing flowers all over the landscaping. And now the flowers are a must. Like if they, I might not have enough room to plant all the vegetables I want, but we're going to definitely have the flowers because they bring me so much joy and they're so nice to just have a little piece of them in your house and just smile at them when you walk by and you know, when the

41:57
Sunflowers are eight feet tall and staring at you in the evening. It's just very cool. And it wasn't something that I, I set out to do, but it was, it just kind of evolved with the process, but something that small could just start. You know, you could just, like you said, just throw some bulbs in and, and enjoy cut flowers from them or, or whatever. Yeah, absolutely. We didn't have any flowers here when we moved here four years ago. There were hostas.

42:25
And I keep saying this on the podcast episodes, but there were hostas here. I don't love hostas. They're fine, but they're not the prettiest flower I've ever seen. And as soon as, as soon as I realized that there were no flowers here, I was like, honey, we have got to get some kind of flowers here. We had brought peony roots from the old house. So I knew we would eventually have peonies. So we got those in and we got some, uh, lily bulbs from somebody for free. And we put those in and we bought tulip.

42:54
and daffodil bulbs and those came up the following spring which made it a lot easier. But the thing is in the springtime nothing's really growing yet you know and we bought crocus bulbs too because they're the first thing that really comes through in Minnesota because it's cold here until April. Oh yes!

43:16
And so when the crocuses came up, I had never seen a crocus in person. I thought that they were a bigger flower. They are the daintiest little flower I've ever seen. And my husband came in and like, I think it was the first part of May, very first part of May. And he was like, there's little tiny like lavender and yellow flowers out there. What did we put there? And I was like, I don't know. Did you take a picture with your phone? And he said, well, of course I did. And showed me, I said, those are the crocuses.

43:44
He said, they're this big. And he showed me with his fingers. He said, they're tiny. And I said, yeah. I didn't know they'd be that small, but how cool is it that we have flowers first? Right. And the other thing is that when you garden, I had no idea that potato plants have the most beautiful blooms. Yes. They're gorgeous. They look like flowers you would cut and put in a vase, except they're really short.

44:14
And the sunflowers. Oh my God, we planted sunflowers two summers ago. My son wanted to plant sunflowers. I was like, sure, we've got an acre of garden we can put in sunflowers. That's fine. And they are so joyful. Like people joke about, you know, sunflowers being happy. They are. They're a happy flower. They are. They really are. So I understand what you're saying about

44:41
you know, even if you don't have enough room for everything that you want to put in that you can eat, you're still going to put in flowers. I can't not have flowers on my property. I have to have something homey. So I get it. All right, Sammy, we've been talking for almost 45 minutes. I try to keep these to half an hour. So I'm going to let you know. And thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Thank you. I've had so much fun talking to you. It's been great to meet you. You too. Have a great day. Thank you. You too.

45:11
Bye.