In this powerful episode of Healthy Mind, Healthy Life, host Avik Chakraborty welcomes Martina Gruppo, a newly published English author whose memoir sheds light on her decades-long entanglement with a covert narcissist. Martina shares her deeply personal journey of overcoming immense challenges, including infertility, cancer, and the psychological scars left by an abusive relationship. Through the transformative power of writing, Martina found not only peace but also the strength to reclaim her life. Join us as we explore how reliving...
In this powerful episode of Healthy Mind, Healthy Life, host Avik Chakraborty welcomes Martina Gruppo, a newly published English author whose memoir sheds light on her decades-long entanglement with a covert narcissist. Martina shares her deeply personal journey of overcoming immense challenges, including infertility, cancer, and the psychological scars left by an abusive relationship. Through the transformative power of writing, Martina found not only peace but also the strength to reclaim her life. Join us as we explore how reliving trauma through storytelling can lead to healing and self-empowerment, offering hope and inspiration to those facing similar battles.----more----
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Avik Chakraborty: Hello! And welcome to another episode of healthy mind, healthy life, where we explore the deep and often difficult journeys of healing, resilience and self discovery.
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Avik Chakraborty: I'm your host, awick. And today we are diving into the transmitive power of writing as a tool for overcoming the trauma.
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Avik Chakraborty: Our guest today is Martina
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Avik Chakraborty: so welcome to the show, Martina.
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Martina Gruppo: Hi, thank you very much for having me as a guest.
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Avik Chakraborty: Lovely, lovely, so, Martina, like, before we start our conversation today, I would quickly love to introduce you to all of our listeners that
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Avik Chakraborty: the listeners. Martina is a newly published English author who has courageously shared her life story in her memoir. So her book Details
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Avik Chakraborty: the Decades she spent entangled with a covert narcissist.
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Avik Chakraborty: revealing how a lack of boundaries made her a prime target for this kind of abuse.
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Avik Chakraborty: So, despite facing the immense challenges from the infertility and the cancer to the psychological scars of an abusive relationships. Martina has continually
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Avik Chakraborty: big
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Avik Chakraborty: posted up and found the new strength.
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Avik Chakraborty: So she now lives south of Rome, running a successful B, 2 B teaching English online and managing a thriving airbnb.
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Avik Chakraborty: It's really awesome, right? So her story is one of the humor, heartbreak, and ultimately healing.
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Avik Chakraborty: So join us as we explore how, relieving her trauma through writing, not only brought Martina peace, but also empowered her to reclaim her life. So, without further ado, welcome again to the show. Martina.
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Martina Gruppo: Okay, thank you. That's quite an introduction. Thank you very much.
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Avik Chakraborty: Yeah.
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Martina Gruppo: So. Yes, sorry. Sorry. Sorry I didn't.
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Avik Chakraborty: Okay. So so, Martina, like I, I was reading your bio, and from there I have 2 things in my mind. So I thought like, I'll I'll I'll quickly
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Avik Chakraborty: discuss this while we are on the show. So so your memoir is deeply, deeply personal, and the raw so if you can share what initially inspired you to start writing about your experiences with the covert night narcissist.
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Martina Gruppo: Well, for me it was. It was a way of explaining what had happened, and initially I wasn't even interested in writing a book. It started out as a blog. A pretty angry
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Martina Gruppo: you know, an a an angry insight insightful because it was an also very present book that a blog that I was writing because I needed to try and understand what I'd actually been through for previous decade. And indeed, you know the time before that, and it started. It started out as just a way of writing down things, you know. Is this what happened? And then sort of seeing it for what it really was.
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Martina Gruppo: and the writing was helping me. I think I wrote about it in the book, see through, see things almost clearly. It was as if I was speaking another language. I was starting to understand what had actually happened to me.
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Martina Gruppo: and it was horrible.
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Martina Gruppo: really traumatic, because everything that you believe.
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Avik Chakraborty: Yeah.
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Martina Gruppo: That you had believed in for your entire life. Suddenly you see through, you see it clearly, and you see what it really is.
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Martina Gruppo: And gradually I through the writing I was expressing myself, and I was going through. It's like looking. I guess it's like looking at an album of photographs. Very old photographs and looking at them and thinking, Oh, gosh! I didn't remember. Oh, no, now I remember that. But you see something more clearly. I mean, it's not as pleasant as looking at photographs, because obviously the real, the realistic situation is that
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Martina Gruppo: is that what you thought you were living through was a lie basically.
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Avik Chakraborty: Understood. Understood.
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Avik Chakraborty: So okay. And and
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Avik Chakraborty: also, when we're talking about this. So
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Avik Chakraborty: writing often, I mean, writing can often be a kind of carthratic process. Right? So
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Avik Chakraborty: how did revisiting such painful memories impact you emotionally while you writing your book.
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Martina Gruppo: Well, it was interesting, because when I decided to actually write, start writing the book, I went right back to the very, very beginning of us, if you like, because.
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Martina Gruppo: you know, it seems to be very one sided when I was writing the book, but sorry when I was writing the blog. I was lashing out when I wrote the book. I had to start from a completely different perspective, because otherwise
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Martina Gruppo: how could anybody be convinced? In the same way I was convinced by him, unless they could see what I saw from the very beginning. So, even though it was painful to revisit that time, I had to show the reader why I fell for somebody like him. So that cathartic process started happening at the
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Martina Gruppo: very slowly at the beginning of writing the book because I had to describe who I was, and I guess
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Martina Gruppo: I guess in some way you take on a certain amount of responsibility because of the fact that you have lower boundaries, and that's the way they get in. When I say they, I mean sort of a narcissistic
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Martina Gruppo: person can invigo themselves into your life.
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Martina Gruppo: but there has to be a certain amount of allowance, because you have such low boundaries. Do you see what I mean? You know, in terms of
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Martina Gruppo: not being able to say no, not being, you know, being swayed by guilt, being open to brainwashing, emotional brainwashing in a way, I think you know. That's that's what happens. But you have to show the reader from the very start how and why you fell for such a thing, because it's almost unbelievable as you work your way through it.
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Avik Chakraborty: Exactly. That's very, very true. Yeah, yeah.
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Avik Chakraborty: And also at the same time, like you mentioned that the process of writing helped you establish those boundaries. So if you can also talk about this experience like shifted your ability to say no when something didn't feel right.
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Martina Gruppo: Yeah, that's that's I have to say, that's a work in progress.
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Avik Chakraborty: Yeah.
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Martina Gruppo: The very beginning.
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Avik Chakraborty: Hmm.
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Martina Gruppo: When when you're susceptible to this kind of abuse, I think it's because you tend to be a people pleaser, you want everything to be right, and they capitalize on that kind of thing. And also I think there's been quite a but it's age old, isn't it, that you don't put yourself first.st I think people are doing that more and more now, and certainly, you know, more recently in the new generations.
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Martina Gruppo: But I I think my generation. It felt that if you put yourself 1st it was almost a selfish thing. You couldn't necessarily prioritise your needs and wants. You had to put other people first, st
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Martina Gruppo: and it took me a long, long time. It was almost a process of brain training to to say to myself, No, you are actually allowed to say no, or you shouldn't have gone along with that, or that didn't make you happy.
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Martina Gruppo: And I think since the separation, or since leaving the relationship
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Martina Gruppo: I've actually enjoyed, and it doesn't have to be anything huge, and it doesn't have to be at the expense of anybody else. But just
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Martina Gruppo: being some of the time, you know, just just doing things for me, doing things that I like doing, saying yes, or meeting friends, or or maybe not meeting anybody, maybe just being on my own for a bit. You know, all of these things are about prioritizing yourself, I guess.
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Martina Gruppo: Does that answer the question? Yeah.
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Avik Chakraborty: You know what I mean.
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Avik Chakraborty: So also, like your story, is filled with the moments of the resilience, humor, and the faith. So.
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Avik Chakraborty: How have these elements played a role in your healing journey?
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Martina Gruppo: In in terms of the writing, you mean. Well, the writing was was
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Martina Gruppo: paramount. It was everything I mean. I I had to motivate, motivate myself to get up in the morning and to go and write several chapters of what was
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Martina Gruppo: really emotional. Tough stuff. You know it was. It was difficult, and sometimes I would actually have to.
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Martina Gruppo: I would push away the laptop that I was writing on, because it was so difficult reading back on the words, you know, and seeing what I'd actually gone through.
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Martina Gruppo: But also the more I wrote the more and the more I edited, because editing plays a huge part in it, but the more you sort of work work around it. It is a form of therapy. It was certainly a form of therapy for me, and it was. It was amazing
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Martina Gruppo: and difficult and painful. But most of all it was amazing to be able to get the story out there.
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Avik Chakraborty: To the.
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Martina Gruppo: Page.
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Avik Chakraborty: True
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Avik Chakraborty: and
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Avik Chakraborty: So in the book you discuss how lack of boundaries made you vulnerable to the narcissistic abuse. So
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Avik Chakraborty: what advice would you give to someone who might be in a similar situation.
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Martina Gruppo: It's it's a bit like being. I don't know, deciding that you need to lose some weight.
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Martina Gruppo: and you have to train yourself into, you know, more exercise, healthier eating, you know it's it's a way of changing. It's almost like changing your lifestyle. Only this is
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Martina Gruppo: changing a part of your brain that has always bent over backwards, if you like. If you're constantly
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Martina Gruppo: putting other people first, st there will
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Martina Gruppo: come a breaking point where you're
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Martina Gruppo: you're not happy.
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Martina Gruppo: and it's you know, that you're not happy because of the fact that you I I don't quite. It's hard to say, I mean for me, for my advice for anybody going through this kind of situation
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Martina Gruppo: is very slowly start to look at what makes you happy. It's not a selfish thing to say that it's not a selfish thing to want your needs to be met.
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Martina Gruppo: and it could be anything from the freedom to go for a walk without feeling guilty, to wearing whatever clothes you want to wear
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Martina Gruppo: to having your hair. However, you want to have your hair style without it being criticised by somebody else, and that person could be criticising it with a smile on their face.
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Martina Gruppo: But if it doesn't make you feel good.
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Martina Gruppo: there's something there's something that needs to change there.
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Martina Gruppo: if you see but.
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Avik Chakraborty: Understood
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Avik Chakraborty: also, like
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Avik Chakraborty: I mean,
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Avik Chakraborty: beyond the writing.
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Avik Chakraborty: What are the other practices? Or maybe the activities that have been essential in your healing and the recovery process.
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Martina Gruppo: Sorry. Could you repeat that I didn't quite get that.
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Avik Chakraborty: Yeah, I mean, beyond writing.
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Avik Chakraborty: What are other activities or the practices were most essential in your healing and the recovery process.
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Martina Gruppo: Oh, gosh! Saying yes.
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Martina Gruppo: saying yes, and saying No, you know it. I think there's things so in the in the general healing process there are so many things that I have done which I do to to just make myself feel better. Plants, plants play huge role. My life, and I love my garden, and I love my plants.
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Martina Gruppo: Exercise swimming.
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Martina Gruppo: It just frees your brain just to to not think just to switch off for a little bit saying yes to spontaneous plans.
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Martina Gruppo: saying, buying what I want to buy in the supermarket without being told what to buy, or you know the usual stuff. It's it's it's about not being controlled. It's a it's about being in control of my own, of what I want to do and how I want to do it. That's I think, yeah, all of those are are just really important.
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Avik Chakraborty: Okay, okay?
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Avik Chakraborty: And
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Avik Chakraborty: so
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Avik Chakraborty: also, if you, if if you talk about
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Avik Chakraborty: be of.
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Avik Chakraborty: you have lived through a variety of challenges. So
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Avik Chakraborty: so, and you maintain a strong sense of optimism and faith in a better future.
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Avik Chakraborty: So what keeps you hopefully.
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Martina Gruppo: I don't. I don't think he destroyed me. I don't think he managed to destroy me. I think I I've always maintained
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Martina Gruppo: eternal optimism. I have a really decent work. Ethic. I like making people happy, but not to the point that it makes me unhappy. I think that's been a real change in me that if something doesn't feel right, then I don't do it.
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Martina Gruppo: And I don't think that that makes me selfish. I just think it's about putting certain boundaries in place where you don't want to be
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Martina Gruppo: always saying yes, because I think I think the problem is, if you always say yes to everything and to everybody. In the end you forget about yourself. I think I might have gone off on a tangent there. Sorry, but I I'm a positive person. I really
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Martina Gruppo: I think the best is yet to come. Gosh! I hope the best is yet to come. I mean,
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Martina Gruppo: cancer was a leveler. I've you know I went through cancer. But that was a long time ago, and I just
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Martina Gruppo: I just feel as though
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Martina Gruppo: there's so much out there to life. There is so much to enjoy, and there is so much to be happy about. And you've just got to kind of pick and choose the right ones the right things to make you happy. I think that's what
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Martina Gruppo: I think. That's how I really feel going forward. And I'm not scared. I'm not scared of doing things. I think I've been through the scariest time at least. I hope so.
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Avik Chakraborty: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
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Avik Chakraborty: Oh, lovely. So finally, what message do you hope? Readers take away from your book.
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Avik Chakraborty: especially those
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Avik Chakraborty: who may be struggling with their own experiences of the trauma and the abuse.
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Martina Gruppo: My absolute and honest reason for writing that book was because I couldn't find any other personal accounts
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Martina Gruppo: written down book like that. I couldn't find anything anywhere that I could relate to. I found an awful lot of stuff online. And and you know, psychological books. There's plenty of papers and things like that out there.
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Martina Gruppo: What I really wanted to do was to show people that anybody who is going through something like this, you're not on your own.
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Martina Gruppo: And you aren't going mad.
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Martina Gruppo: and they don't. They aren't actually that original in what they do.
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Martina Gruppo: because I've had so much feedback from the book, which has been quite incredible where people have said to me, Oh, my goodness! I could be reading my own story, or
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Martina Gruppo: that's exactly what happened to me, and I think the more we realize that these words are written, for people who are going through exactly the same thing
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Martina Gruppo: will help empower. People will help people feel stronger to to actually say, Yeah, I'm not actually going to put up with this anymore.
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Martina Gruppo: And it and it's not about running away from something. It's about saying I'm not okay with this. This isn't the right way to get behave.
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Martina Gruppo: and I think the one thing that I really regret is I didn't trust my instincts, my my physical instincts, because your body knows your body knows even before your mind or your heart. Your body is, is
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Martina Gruppo: is sparking off warning signals all of the time. Trust trust yourself
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Martina Gruppo: because I think that's the key thing. You really need to trust what you really know what's going on in your head and your mind, and if anybody
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Martina Gruppo: gets anything from this, I mean the book isn't all doom and gloom. There's plenty of, you know, humor and and dark black humor and anecdotes, and you know, and my sort of view on life in general. But I what I would like more than anything is for it to resonate with people where they say, Yes, yeah, that happened to me. I am not alone in this. I think that's what I want more than anything.
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Avik Chakraborty: Lovely, lovely, that's really great, great. So thank you, Martina, for sharing your powerful story with us today, and your journey from trauma to healing is an inspirational
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Avik Chakraborty: To anyone who's faced familiar, I mean similar challenges and the struggles.
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Avik Chakraborty: And for those who are listening.
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Avik Chakraborty: If Martina's story resonate with you. I encourage you to check out her memoir, where you will find not only a deeply honest account of her experiences, but also a testament to the resilience of the human spirit.
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Avik Chakraborty: So remember that setting boundaries and saying No to yourself, are crucial steps in reclaiming your life. So
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Avik Chakraborty: stay tuned for more episodes of healthy mind and healthy life, where we continue to explore the stories of courage.
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Avik Chakraborty: transformation, and pursuit of a better and healthier life. So until next time. Take care of your mind, body, and the soul. Thank you so much.
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Martina Gruppo: Thank you very much. Thank you for letting me be a guest on your.
