Gene Hamm, Digichief

The 16:9 PODCAST IS SPONSORED BY SCREENFEED – DIGITAL SIGNAGE CONTENT

Digichief has been helping digital signage and DOOH network operators feed the so-called content beast for a bunch of years. While the Kentucky-based company started up in 2007, its roots go back another decade to a tech start-up that did similar graphics-driven content work for broadcast TV.

I've known co-founder Gene Hamm forever, but this podcast was the first time we had a detailed chat about what Digichief does and offers. We get into a bunch of things, including what's widely used and what seems like perfect contextual content, but hasn't caught on.

We talk in detail, as well, about more customized content, and about a new service called Mercury that Digichief spent more than a year developing and recently rolled out.

If you hear thumping sounds in the background on my end, that's the roofers. It wasn't until the morning we recorded this that I remembered about the racket they'd be making. Big job. Big bill.

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TRANSCRIPT

Gene Hamm, thank you for joining me. For those people who don't know much about Digichief, could you gimme the elevator pitch on what you guys do? 

Gene Hamm: Absolutely. Thanks Dave. Long-time listener, first-time caller. Am I the first one to say that? 

Probably not, among the first. 

Gene Hamm: My kids always say I've got a lot of dad jokes, so I oh, no, I won't bore with that. But thanks for having me today. I'm Gene Hamm, one of the founders of Digichief. 

In a nutshell we're a content solutions provider. Basically, a one-source solution for all things content. We work in a number of capacities. We have a white labeled solution for data feeds for those clients who want to control the designs themselves. Or we can provide an integrated solution with HTML5, our widgets for clients that don't want to do the heavy lifting on the design. We already have it baked into our APIs, and so we've built up a library of content over the years. All the staples, weather news, sports info, that sort of thing. We also have some short-form, video series, and some other products that we work as distribution partners, with digital art, things like that.

But in a nutshell, we aggregate, we curate, and we create content for you, and we provide it in a consistent manner. We take care of the licensing, and we keep up with the inevitable changes in the source, data feeds, and put it out in a highly scalable, cloud infrastructure.

So I would say in the early days or earlier days of digital signage, a lot of companies, I shouldn't say a lot because there weren't many, and there still aren't that many, but the companies that were doing the sort of work that you do, I would describe as aggregators that they were collecting and harmonizing data feeds from news gathering organizations, government organizations like National Weather Service and so on, and getting in a format that's structured, reliable and all those sorts of things so that CMS companies or end users could tap into your feeds and have something that's reliable, organized, and curated to some degree.

Is that a fair way of describing things? 

Gene Hamm: That is a fair assessment, and I think it's evolved over time. I think early on, it was basically, just kind of an aggregation model. We actually started the company, it's an offshoot of another company we'd started back in the 90s where we worked in the broadcast television space, where we were doing lower third tickers, turnkey systems. 

So kinda like Chiron? 

Gene Hamm: Yeah, we were third-party developers for Chiron. So we worked a lot with Chiron early on, but a lot of the stuff you saw on the lower thirds and newscasts around the country was our stuff. 

The dreaded tickers. 

Gene Hamm: The dreaded tickers that kind of blew up in the 90s, yeah. We did news headlines, we were doing integrations with AP Weather. We actually ended up doing elections, school closings, and internet chat. We were all over the board on that. 

So that's how we got our feet wet on integrating and aggregating content. In the mid 2000s, we saw the digital signage kind of take off, and we said, look, we've already got these connections with these sources, so why don't we just license these and license this vertical? So that's kind of how it started, but it's evolved over time. We certainly still do that and provide those in a consistent format, but then it's also moved into kind of bespoke projects where people will say, we've got this data, we've got, we want this, maybe we have to go out and do research on specific topics for “Cold weather starting tips for Automotive Dealerships”, things like that. So there's really a research arm to it that we can go out and create stuff for custom projects. 

So if you had to give a percentage of from a third party versus what you guys are developing internally, what roughly would that be? 

Gene Hamm: I would say about 60 to 70% of it is aggregating. All the staples, traffic, transit, flight data, news headlines, sports scores, the stuff that people want to display most often. So yeah, I would say roughly 60 to 70% of it, and then the other stuff is, a lot of stuff on the infotainment route is data-based that we've created over time and this could be for like “This day in history” trivia, fun facts, jokes, clean jokes of the day, holidays, whimsical, eye-catching things to get eyeballs up on the screen. 

The challenge I've always seen with using third-party sources for things like tickers and full-screen presentations, whether it's from the AP, Canadian Press, or Reuters, is that they typically don't write headlines for digital signage or digital at home or anything else, and they don't even really do it in a lot of cases online. So what you end up with are headlines that don't really say anything. It'll say, “This week's top news is this…” and that'll show up on screens. I see it on broadcast still, and I'm going, why are you even using this? Why don't you curate stuff that you know has fully formed thoughts and says in a headline what you need to know versus kind of a teaser? 

Have you guys struggled with that, or has it gotten better? 

Gene Hamm: We've absolutely run into that. You’re speaking to the choir here. We’ve knocked our head against the wall so many times, and I just think that for these news organizations, digital signage is an afterthought. Believe me, over the last 20 years, we've seen so many stories come out that we just scratch our heads, and I've had conversations with the editors to try to plead my case, and it just goes on deaf ears. 

So basically what we have to do with our news, we have two formats. We have one that's filtered, and we've got lookups and intelligence written in where if something comes out misformed or certain key phrases, we just kick them out. And then we have basically a curated version where we actually go in and manually approve and post. We look at the image, we look at the images is another problem with it, but we look at the story, and we say, this doesn't make sense, or maybe we change a few words around to make it flow better and fit into a kind of concise title and description. So yeah, it's been a big problem and honestly it hasn’t gotten any better in my viewpoint.

Does AI present an opportunity to clean things up? Because I will take the odd story that I write and dump it into Claude and just say, “Give me 10 suggested headlines” and it'll knock out ten headline headlines in 15 seconds, and I'll look at it and go, oh, that one's pretty good and I'll take that one and maybe massage it a little bit. But it does a pretty good job with that sort of thing. 

Gene Hamm: It absolutely will be a tool that we can utilize, and we're certainly looking into it right now to try to inject on our backend tools that you can request a specific, character-limited title that makes sense. One of the nuances to AI, which I know you're aware of, is that it's all in the phrasing of how you ask the question for the format that you wanted back in. 

Prompt engineering. 

Gene Hamm: Yeah. It's an art in itself, and what we see is that we think that AI can help this curation service to look at the headlines that we're getting and spit them out in more of a usable, readable, concise form. 

But it's not gonna be autonomous anytime soon. 

Gene Hamm: We'll see. 

Yeah, not reliably autonomous, it's still gonna give you some weird headlines and all that, but then again, you could hire somebody and they'll give you weird headlines. 

Gene Hamm: That's true. That's absolutely true. We try to say that our Soft News, which is our curated version, and we try to bill it as G-rated content that's not going to tick somebody off, but that's next to impossible these days because whatever you think is G-rated and is not going to satisfy everyone. We try to stay away from the political end of it, but there's always gonna be somebody that's offended.

Yeah. I've talked to a few people who just said, you know what, we don't even do politics on our feeds anymore, or what we show on our screens, because somebody's gonna be irritated, somebody's gonna complain, and it's just not worth it. 

Gene Hamm: Oh, the stories I can tell. It's funny. We have a custom bad word filter for stuff that we don't want to come across in the AP and so we've built that over time, and I could never let that see the light of day that the things that we've seen come across the wire that we now omit. Even the images as well. There are a lot of times we'll get images that don't really explain the story, it doesn't make sense, maybe they aren't centered on the right focal point of the image, and we think maybe AI could definitely benefit, maybe being able to zone in on what the main cue is of the image that we get with the AP stories or any of the news images. 

Have the demands and the uses, usage trends evolved through the years, like when I got into digital, more than 25 years ago now, there weren't really even smartphones, and the internet was still fairly new-ish, and you could have public screens in elevators or walkways or shopping malls or whatever that were running news and weather on there, and those would be a primary source for that information, you fast forward to now, and you can't get away from news, you can't get away from weather data, that sort of thing. 

I've always wondered, do those things need to be on screens anymore? 

Gene Hamm: That's definitely a good debatable topic. There are so many of these black screens in our hands that fight for attention. We work in the automotive space in dealer showrooms and you walk into the showroom there and people are in the waiting area, and they've got screens up with content on it, news headlines, weather, things like that, and everybody is looking at their phone.

So you're always thinking how do we compete with getting eyeballs up on the screen to get the messaging and whatnot for the client, as opposed to the ubiquitous news headlines and things like that. So yeah, it's something that our clients definitely have to deal with.

Is that something you coach to, to tell both your resellers and your end users, that it's important to really think through what you're using in terms of content feeds or your content mix so that it's hyper relevant and contextual to where you are versus just “We need stuff to run on this lower third” or “We need stuff to run in between our dealer promotional messages” or whatever it may be, whatever the venue is.

Gene Hamm: Absolutely. As you said, it's all in the content mix. If you're trying to get eyeballs up there on the screen, you gotta have relevant hyper-local content, whether that be local traffic maps or local sports scores or things like that for the market. 

But yeah, the dwell time and how long the content is on the screen, you want to get the eyeballs up there and then move on to what your marketing message is. So it's definitely a delicate balance between, you can't just inundate someone with all the news, all weather. You definitely have to make it in short, concise forms because people's attention spans go elsewhere. They go back to their phone or something else. 

A few months ago, you announced a partnership with a company called Stream, and I've done a podcast with those folks and laid out what they do and all that. 

How do you work with them, and could you kinda run down what they do and how that's resonating with your user base?

Gene Hamm: Yeah, so we met Anthony Nerantzis at one of the trade shows, and he came by and explained his interest. He’s kind of a broadcaster, newsroom journalist. So basically, what it is they do is a presenter-led, concise, short-form video of bespoke custom news, right? And it can be catered to the industry. 

So if it's medical, financial, or automotive, or what have you. They can go back, write the scripts, and of course, Anthony can describe this company better than I can, so hopefully he's not gonna be mad at me for giving this kind of dissertation. But yeah, I just thought it brought to the table something that we could really customize for our clients, and it's very professional, the workflow is great, you can provide some of the background, what you know the company's looking to do, what type of information they're trying to get across, their team can go back and write a script that’s engaging and they can automate the product to put it out on whatever the interval you need, whether it be weekly or monthly. 

Originally, when they came out, it was a closed caption type thing with lower third supers on the bottom of the screen and I had mentioned to them, “Hey, there are too many graphics on the screen. Maybe, you might wanna streamline that a little bit.” They did that because they’re very good about taking feedback, and now they've moved in. It was more of a no-volume type environment product, and now they've, they're able to do audio voiceover as well from the on-air talent actually speaking and you can actually hear it. 

Now they're getting into kind of the marketing communication end of it where, let's say it's a pharmaceutical company or something that wants to talk about things that like the president or the CEO wants to talk about certain things to their employees that they have going on, his team's able to go out and produce that and deliver that information and they can get eyeballs up on the screen, educate and inform the client. It’s been very well received and we’re also looking to work with them on some of our feeds, whether it's health-related type content, maybe we can work in some of the real, day-to-day, hyper-local information on the tail end of the video segment. Say if it's a medical facility and they're talking about medical health tips, things like that, maybe it comes in and we can integrate with one of our APIs and follow the levels of the flu levels there are for the specific area, so we can really hyper-localize it. 

So in a lot of respects, it's a variation on the sort of work that you've been doing, particularly on the custom side of it. But instead of it just being text and visuals, they can do a full video with on-air talent and they do that by green screening, on-air hosts, and then mashing that up with AI so that it's a human talking to you and doing a custom presentation as opposed to an anime avatar look that I think looks ghastly in most cases?

Gene Hamm: Absolutely. I think going to the presenter-led approach is advantageous and some of the early ones, like you said, that we've seen are just creepy. But I think what they're doing with their technology is amazing. I think it looks spot on. 

Yeah, I've looked at it a couple of times for extended periods, just paying attention to see if it's glitchy at all, and it's very smooth, and if you didn't know, you'd be hard pressed to know, this is AI-generated, but it's absolutely human. But the movements and lips and all that stuff are being massaged through AI. 

Gene Hamm: Yeah, and the neat thing about it, too, is just it's so scalable and they can automate it, and they can really like its bespoke content, so they can create the script, have it produce it in very short order.

So more recently, you've announced something else called Mercury. Can you walk through what that is? 

Gene Hamm: Mercury was created basically to give our users a more robust way to onboard our HTML content. We were getting requests for more of a web portal that gives more granular design choices such as colors, backgrounds, logos, the transitions. They can go in and micromanage the news they wanna see, or the sports they want to see, the duration that it's on the screen, and then, they can compile that into a playlist and then output it to a URL and that URL can be scheduled.

It's quite a long time coming. We certainly had HTML55 widgets before, but this just gives people a little bit more granular decisions and a web portal, and then we also thought it was a good way to showcase our widget library. We built up these designs over time. Many of the products that we have, there's multiple designs, and so for, we think it might be a growth area for new prospects, that it lowers the barrier of entry to go out and actually, sign up for a free trial, take a look at, it's an all you can eat type model where we've got all the staples, the news, the weather, the sports, the stocks, the infotainment and we’re adding new designs and widgets all the time.

I think it's intuitive where we spent well over a year designing the system, and I think it really gives people a way to sample our products and see how it works with their systems. 

Could you give an example of how a typical client would use it and what they do?

Gene Hamm: Yeah, so they sign up for the product. It's a subscription service, with volume discounts that they can go in, and we've got a kind of smorgasbord of content, a widget library and it's all categorized by, like I said, news, weather, things like that, and they can pick and choose what content they wanna build into a playlist? Now that could be just a single piece of content, whether, say, weather, and they've got a bunch of different designs, whether they wanna do a 5K five-day forecast, if they wanna do a full-screen weather map, they can choose their locations, and then they can output it as a URL that URL can be a plugged into a playlist and that pluglist can have their content or they can massage their own local content, through their own platform, so it just gives them the ability to do this kind of infotainment type stuff in between their other messaging. 

But yeah, they can build a playlist with a single asset, or they can build a playlist with 30 and build a longer duration, say, a 20-minute loop if they want. So yeah, that's the typical workflow. 

So more normally or in the past, if I were a corporate entity and I had a corporate campus in three cities in South Carolina. If I were buying that from a typical subscription content service or weather provider, it’s going to have a certain look and color schemes, everything else, and you can't really deviate from that, versus with Mercury, you can choose your fonts, choose your background, colors, everything else, and tweak it so it fits the way you want, maybe has the company's corporate colors and or just fits in with the overall look of the network. 

Is that a clear way of saying this?

Gene Hamm: Yeah. To make it very granular, the layout of, let’s say, a five-day forecast, the data itself is set on the screen, but all the other elements around it like if they wanted to upload their own. company logo, if they wanna match their corporate colors, they can choose certain fonts that may match what you know they're using. So yeah, they can make different transitions to it, so they can really make granular choices with it to fall in line with what they're looking for, but be on the same thing across the same board. We have stocks, if they wanna put their own company stock up there, they can do that. If they wanna do infotainment like trivia or whatnot, we have a number of different trivia categories that they can choose. So yeah, they can really hyper-localize. 

Do you put guardrails in terms of design choices that can be made? Like thinking particularly of font choices and Lord knows we've all seen online, particularly, and less so on digital signage, here somebody decides I'm going to use this font, and it's just the wrong choice. 

Gene Hamm: We have chosen a list of fonts that we have in a dropdown box that they can choose from. As you can imagine, this was our initial decision when we debuted this release system a few months ago, and our thought is that we wanna give them these options to an extent, right? So we have several fonts that we think we deem look good, and we certainly can add additional fonts as we go. But yes, I agree there's some god awful fonts up there that we don't think would at the end of the day look great on particular design. 

Is this the way to deal with the demand that can scale up so that if you were just doing this through managed services, where you would have companies come to you and say, “Hey, we would like a live custom feed that presents ou  weather and other information in these fonts, this background and everything else.” That's hard to do and hard to charge because if it's a one-off, you gotta charge a lot more for it, versus a service where you log in and you do it yourself, by and large, that makes it possible to do more. 

Gene Hamm: Yeah, I think so. I think with the pricing model, how we have it, they can use everything. It's all you can eat, in terms of all these different designs and content categories that they can go in and it's not gonna cost them anymore if they put the news or the weather up there. I think the value proposition to Mercury is that we're doing the heavy lifting on the backend, and that these local networks don't have to go out and find different sources, and like you mentioned, the National Weather Service. 

Early on, we were integrating with the National Weather Service and that got to be just an overwhelming task because of stages and formats, and changes in the designs and things like that. It just made more sense for us to go out and get an aggregated list. Actually, we have a couple of different aggregated services. So, like a lot of our staples, we have a primary source and a backup source. So if one goes inevitably, these sources have issues, and if one goes down. It really streamlines the whole process. 

Has the whole business of getting data from different sources improved? Have they started to, or maybe not started, but long since understood that you can't keep changing the structure. You've gotta stick to something. 

Gene Hamm: Yes and no. With sports specifically, they're good about giving us a heads up when things are gonna change. In the olden days, we would find out about it after it happened. So I think a lot of the source APIs that we have do a good job of giving us kind of a change. But there’s repercussions. If they do a full change of their structure, we have to integrate that, and if it has any changes to how we do content, we have to let our clients know, and we have to make sure the widgets are changed. We have to make sure they know that the structure's changed. 

During the pandemic, we really moved our cloud infrastructure from one cloud service to another. We added a lot of data points to our structure, and so that was really an uphill battle in terms of having to communicate to our current client base that had already done the design work and had already integrated with our APIs to let them know that's coming. So we don't take these things lightly and we've communicated to our sources over time about the repercussions to this. You can't just pull the trigger and give us a two-week notice. 

What about social media? If I go back 10-15 years, there were a lot of subscription content providers and CMS companies developing widgets so that you could display Twitter (now X) or Facebook post or whatever maybe on screens and I think over time people realize, oh boy, that's a dangerous thing to do unless you've got somebody sitting right on top of it all the time. 

Gene Hamm: It's absolutely the case. In fact, we were one of the ones early on that were doing native integrations with the APIs from Twitter and Facebook and whatnot, and it got to be a full-time job for our developers, changing not only the licensing, but the structure, and we finally threw in the towel on it and outsourced it to a company where that's all they do, and so we work with this particular company, and they take care of it. They've got a team of developers that don't do anything else, and they keep up on all the backend changes, the licensing, and so we're able to not only provide Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or X, LinkedIn, all this as a concise data feed with different data points and assets, and then we also have an HTML version that integrates with it. 

So yeah, we've definitely gone the route of outsourcing that to someone who could keep up with it.

Is there a most popular resource and one that you thought would have traction and that just never worked out, and you've since dropped or rarely see sold?

Gene Hamm: About a year ago, we started with a health API, so seasonal and patient level data, and by seasonal, we mean pollen which is a big one and we have multiple sources for that. But, RSV levels, COVID-19 numbers, cold and cough, and flu. And then we can even get granular with patients. We can go and say a zip code in the United States, and say, what are the ten highest levels of obesity? And they can customize a message or an ad campaign towards that. Those particular zip codes we thought would take off at least the patient-level stuff and it was just really slow out of the gate. We've had a lot of interest and we've made a lot of presentations, but I think there are a lot of these companies that are still trying to figure out how they might use it. Flight data is one that we work with, and we have some clients using it. 

There are certain sources that are very expensive to keep up with. That's something that we thought would be selling more than it does. A lot of times, the people that you know that put the flight data up are probably going directly to the source as opposed to going through somebody like us. 

Is there one that everybody uses, or almost everybody? 

Gene Hamm: Everybody uses weather, of course, that's the big one. Everybody uses sports scores, and everybody uses news. That's news, weather, sports are the big dogs. 

Just a couple of final questions. Where are you guys based, and how big is your company? I'm thinking you don't have that big of a headcount because you don't need to, because you're using external resources.

Gene Hamm: Yeah, so we're based in Lexington, Kentucky. We also have partners spread across the world. But I got a partner in California. There are a few of us here, and then we've got a couple in Ukraine. So we've been working with a couple of developers who are now employees in Ukraine, well before the war. So it's been interesting seeing that side of it from an employee. 

It gives you a perspective on a drone flying over, and bombings and things like that. So there are five of us. We run a small operation, but like you said, we don't really need an extensive team. We certainly have worked with or contracted out some design work in terms of the graphical design. We've worked with the same designers for well over a decade.

All right, so thank you. If people wanna find out more, it's just Digichief.com, right? 

Gene Hamm: Yeah, Digichief.com, and then if someone wants to sample Mercury for a free trial, there's a Mercury link on there that they can go and sign up for, and give it a whirl. 

Gene, thank you.

Gene Hamm: Thank you, Dave. I appreciate your time.