In this episode, we dive deep into the world of creativity with Adelaide's own clown, actor, and director, Hew Parham. Known for his unique comedic characters and acclaimed performances like Symphonie Of The Bicycle and A Not So Trivial Pursuit.
In this episode, we chat with Hew about his creative process, the importance of physical and mental space in his work, and the challenges and triumphs that come with being a professional clown and performer. Whether he's mentoring with the British troupe S...
In this episode, we dive deep into the world of creativity with Adelaide's own clown, actor, and director, Hew Parham. Known for his unique comedic characters and acclaimed performances like Symphonie Of The Bicycle and A Not So Trivial Pursuit.
In this episode, we chat with Hew about his creative process, the importance of physical and mental space in his work, and the challenges and triumphs that come with being a professional clown and performer. Whether he's mentoring with the British troupe Spymonkey or performing his beloved character Giovanni, Hew's dedication to his craft and passion for pushing artistic boundaries shines through.
Tune in for an inspiring conversation that explores the highs and lows of a life dedicated to bringing joy and thoughtfulness to audiences around the world.
If you’d like to see more of, you can follow Hew on instagram; @hewparham
This episode was recorded on 9 December 2023 on the lands of the Kaurna Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.
Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.
Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor
Creative references from Hew:
Pema Chodron - When Things Fall Apart
James Thiérrée
Julia Cameron - The Artist’s Way
Let’s get social:
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TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast
CREDITS
Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor
Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel
Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel
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00:08 - Alexis (Host)
Hi, my name is Alexis Naylor and I am your host here at Through the Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. We pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge Elders, past and present. On this podcast, I will be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. Welcome to Through the Creative Door conversations along the way. Welcome to.
00:52 - Alexis (Host)
Hello Hugh, how are you going?
00:54 - Hew (Guest)
I'm good. Good, it's early, but we're here.
00:55 - Alexis (Host)
We're in rainy Adelaide. What have you done? What is this? I know I wanted the sun.
01:02 - Hew (Guest)
I promised you hot weather, the other day I was like it's good beach weather and then it's like Not acceptable.
01:14 - Hew (Guest)
I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, I've had a really good week. I've been working with some dancers on a piece about loneliness I love this which was really, really cool. It was just working as like an outside eye dramaturg kind of working with text, just because those guys don't work with text a lot, so that was really fun. I actually had a really fun kind of nice. Kind of was nice to kind of waltz in and go yeah, that's good. Okay, bye.
01:41 - Alexis (Host)
I love it.
01:43 - Hew (Guest)
Rather than the week before was like I don't know what to do about this. Yeah, it's funny. You have some weeks that are like and then other weeks are. Yeah, that's the creative life.
01:54 - Alexis (Host)
It is yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming through the creative door. And you are such a talented bear, such a talented bear. You are a professional talented bear, such a talented bear. You are a professional clown, you're an actor, you direct things that you were just saying before and I don't know. You're just such a champion in like lifting others up and doing so many amazing things.
02:18 - Hew (Guest)
Oh, thank you.
02:22 - Alexis (Host)
It's so interesting because, like we're talking about, like creative spaces, but for you, I'm curious, like what does a creative space mean for you, cause it could be very different depending on what you're doing right.
02:49 - Hew (Guest)
Yeah, absolutely, um, I I'm pretty like in terms of like I'm pretty bad at home, I think I need a. I mean, it depends, sometimes I can kind of get into a pretty good writing mojo, depending on the day, but I do, I mean, I guess, in terms of like a physical space, like I often I do prefer a studio if I can get one, studio if I can get one, and then, um, uh, because I guess I find my work is often, um, quite physical, or often I kind of write a lot. I would say I write a lot through the body, so it's good for me to.
03:17
I find, rather than you know, I think, if I sit at the laptop and write too much, often you find it's you go to read it out later and it's a bit stale, a bit laptopy, so I kind of find sometimes just being able to roam around in the space often probably like voice record a lot lie in the corner, have a cry, get back up again, play music, sort of. You can feel like you can be a bit of a disaster, um in the best possible way um, I made a show a few years ago called Rudy's the Rinse Cycle, and I had a studio of my own at the time. Yeah, and.
03:52
I was like I would never have been able to make that show without that studio, because I don't know whether I was a bit blocked coming into it. And then it was only. I was in the Cabaret Festival, which is a pretty big festival in Adelaide, and it was about two weeks out and I didn't have anything. It was just like, oh my God, and so, but because I had that studio, I just went in from like 9 am to 11 o'clock at night and I don't know just be able to kind of, like you know, write and then kind of sit and look out the window and write and then sit out the window and yeah, that kind of space to kind of be able to designate I often find helps me a little bit. Um, mentally, mentally, I had this kind of funny thought. I got this show, symphony, the bicycle and in a weird way, like I've said, this thing where I go.
04:39
I don't know if I would have been able to write that show if it wasn't for lockdown in a way, because like it was sort of like one maybe I had a deadline and to present a draft, but actually kind of having that space at that time was really massive.
04:55
And then I was also really lucky to get JobKeeper, which I think just having that freedom and income and you know that steady income for that bit, and I was went to this conference recently they're talking about this universal basic income for artists and this, you know this thing going on Ireland and I certainly found, when I had, you know, I had that income coming in, that I could actually just I could every day so just get up without kind of having to go off and do other things and just write.
05:29
I'm sure it wasn't perfect. Maybe I'm looking back on it romantically a little bit, but I think sometimes I find having that kind of separation or I guess recently, when I got a grant to work on a new show and I guess to have that three weeks specifically that I could kind of go and dedicate myself to and really kind of this is the time to work on this, I find sometimes when my brain is a bit split in four or five different directions and I'm, you know, I'm going to gig if I'm doing other kind of stuff and then things like that. Then I guess that I find sometimes that's tricky to kind of really go deep with something. So yeah, that's a few things in regards to space
06:09 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, it's um, I think sometimes it is nice to separate, you know, home work, you know, and sort of have that actual physical difference in environment yeah, I mean not for everybody, but sometimes it's a frame of mind too, but yeah, yeah, I think it is nice to, yeah, be able to step into or out of.
06:38 - Hew (Guest)
Yeah, like I think at home it's just so easy to get. Well, I'll just do a little bit of this and so it's much easier to procrastinate and sort of put some washing on.
06:49 - Alexis (Host)
Put some washing on yeah, yeah, um, yeah.
06:54 - Hew (Guest)
But then I think there's times I get into pretty good modes, um, and I guess even maybe a designation of space within the house. I sometimes find, as I think, when I've got sort of the spare room which is kind of set up for my creative room, a little office, a bit more of my office, and I think for a while I didn't have that kind of set up and at some point I really actually kind of specified no, this is that space for that, and to kind of almost go through that kind of creative door in a way that you go, okay, this is the space to kind of be creative and throw my phone into the river so you don't look at it. And it's like, oh God.
07:33 - Alexis (Host)
You've got to put it in one of those jars that has a lock or a timer or something.
07:36 - Hew (Guest)
I've been thinking about getting a phone prison. Oh man.
07:44 - Alexis (Host)
You have been part of so many projects. You have created so many amazing things, so this is probably going to be a hard question. But is there a body of work or something you've been part of that you're most proud of, and how did it come about?
08:00 - Hew (Guest)
I mean like all of them in different ways. I think a bit like Symphony of the Bicycle. I guess I'm proud of that. In different ways, I think it'd be like Symphony of the Bicycle. I guess I'm proud of that in some senses of I developed that. That took about seven to eight years to develop that show and sometimes you wonder with projects like should you let it go? And I often think with that one where it goes, it's a 90 minute beast.
08:25
It started out as I had this idea of wanting to make a 20 minute clown show about a cyclist, just like a really cute little silent kind of thing, and then it ended up being this enormous behemoth, was like 20 accents and all these characters and but I guess it's.
08:46
I kind of. There was this determination to tell this story in that show, especially about this real-life character, Gino Bartali, who was a cyclist who won the Tour de France in 1938 and 1948. And there's this thing which I always found fascinating about him is that during World War II he would go on these secret training rides to save, transport these documents, to save Jews in Northern Italy, and he never told anyone about it until near where he died. And I guess there was something about that, that nobility, and there was something about him that I kind of went. It was almost like part of me that I needed to explore. And then it's interesting working with collaborators. I don't know it's like and I don't bemoan any of them, but I think I guess it's sometimes and I probably as a director as well I've got to be careful when I'm trying to shape things away from maybe where the performer might want to be going but, I just had this feeling that I wanted to tell this story
09:50
I kind of it really felt like it was going away from it.
09:52
I don't know whether it was obstinate or not, whether it was him, because he's a pretty dogmatic, stubborn character, but I just it's like I felt like I had to really really hold firm to that thread of the story and really wanting to tell it, and at times it was going in all sorts of other directions.
10:08
And then it's, I think at some point people started to get it and they started to go no, he's, and it became such a massive part of the show and I guess then doing the show and then when people hear that story they're like, oh, now I want to Google him and I want to learn about him and stuff like that, and I go that I guess validation of yeah, I don't know it's sort of interesting about when to let people in and when to let other influence in and then when to kind of go to hold firm to an idea and kind of go no, I need to tell this. So I think that in a funny way kept me going across seven, eight years to kind of keep it going and through covid and through lockdown and stuff like that that are going now it's sort of I'm still determined to make it happen in a way.
10:57 - Alexis (Host)
Lots of body of work to be proud of. Yeah, yeah on the flip side of things that you're proud of. I'm curious have you had challenges that you've sort of come across, that have stunted or affected your creativity? And if so, what do you think the major lessons or lesson has been?
11:20 - Hew (Guest)
Lots of things, lots like perfectionism is a pretty big thing for me. Highly perfectionistic it's actually. When you said, when you asked the question is, what came to mind was a bit my other show I've sort of got going at the moment A Not So Trivial Pursuit, and that show I it's. It ended up not being again maybe the show that I expected I was gonna make, make I was going to make this this idea of
11:50 - Alexis (Host)
Does it ever end up the way that we?
11:53 - Hew (Guest)
Often? It doesn't. No, no. And sometimes I think you've also just got to let it go and let it live and take on what form it wants to take on and let yourself be surprised. And um, yeah, I guess you know it is that balance of when to take on and let yourself be surprised. And yeah, I guess it is that balance of when to let go and then when to hold firm and but, yeah, that show. I had this crazy idea of doing six different scenes based on the different categories of Trivial Pursuit, with six different clown directors from around the world, and then it just turned out to be an absolute nightmare, like trying to get everyone together and timing. And then in Adelaide, we were in this little bubble for a while a bit after you know, it was sort of actually things were quite good, and then we opened up the borders and then Omicron hit and then three of the directors that are here were parents, and then it was like they had to homeschool their kids. Schools closed down and then, um, and then I'm not exactly sure what I was going through mentally at the time I don't think I was maybe in the best state of mind like a few things had sort of happened and then I was finding, when I was even just trying to make the show as it was.
13:13
I was it's funny I was really, I was giving up on everything. I was giving up on all my ideas. I would. I'd never really had that sense before. I had other times where I'd go, oh, that's shit or that doesn't work, but it was this sort of more, this real kind of defeated, like, this sort of real kind of collapse, this sort of um, yeah, it was this sort of very strange state that I hadn't experienced before, whether it was a bit of a depression or something and whether there's a few other things that were happening in life at that time. So I I mean it was probably a big help with some of my directors that were there probably helping and kind of helping persist through it. I remember there was this I did a session with my teacher in Canada that just he was again like just show me anything. Like show me anything, anything, just anything, just get anything out.
14:09
And I had to really like, like, just off the floor.
14:13 - Alexis (Host)
Like you're really like pushing uphill yeah yeah,
14:15 - Hew (Guest)
But then sometimes you just like it's like you just hang on to something, like you just hook onto something, and I think there's this character in the show the rules Nazi, and I think at that moment it was like oh, I think there's something in him.
14:31
I think there's something in him, so let's like follow him for a little bit and then and then I think, where there was almost these kind of like ice picks that you sort of just kind of found up, like you found that bit and then, and then maybe that gave me a little bit of scaffolding to kind of go, and then you sort of, and then find another little bit.
14:48 - Alexis (Host)
It's such a challenge to really just trust the process and if you've not done it before, it's being comfortable in the uncomfortable and yeah, it's just everyone tells you just to follow the process, but, like when you've not done that before, you're just like what do you mean? It all feels yeah yeah hard and shit and there's resistance and yeah you know you self-doubt and all of the yeah, it's tough.
15:21 - Hew (Guest)
It's probably where a lot of projects have stalled for me is probably when I've become focused on the product. So, however scary, I've got to find a way to go back to process and go, and that might be like what do I want to discover about myself, you know? Or I just want to work on my writing and I want to work on my dialogue, or, yeah, I want to work on through this show building my physicality and getting to do better than my physicality. Or I'm gonna work on my accents and this is a really great having you to work on my voice and stuff like that you can kind of look at again. Oh, that’s weird. Then you also quite good.
16:07 - Alexis (Host)
Out of curiosity do you have like a thing or an object that you can't live without when you create?
16:15 - Hew (Guest)
Yes, there's a few things. I'm a bit of a pen obsessive, love Officeworks. This is my favourite pen.
16:25 - Alexis (Host)
We're not sponsored by Officeworks, by the way.
16:27 - Hew (Guest)
Or by Uniball. Hi, uniball, if you're there, I love your 0.7 signo. Uh, that's my favourite. My favorite pen because I do uh, I do journal quite a bit. Um, there's a thing called The Artist’s Way um, which is the book, yes, um, which is probably like probably a lot of people in the arts have probably done and gone like oh, my God like it will drive you crazy. Yeah, but it is transformative, so no wonder it keeps going around.
17:01 - Alexis (Host)
And I guess I was just speaking to someone a couple of days ago who just bought it as well, I was like oh, it's making the rounds again.
17:13 - Hew (Guest)
Making the rounds again. Yeah. I saw some in a cafe a little while ago and I was like, oh God, maybe for those who don't know, it's a 12, what do they call it? A 12 week recovery program, recovery program? I don't know. Is it program? I can't speak For creatives or I guess anyone really, but there's a thing in that is the morning pages, which is three pages freehand every morning.
17:34 - Alexis (Host)
Yeah, there's. There's something about that physicality pen to paper. I don't know what that is
17:37 - Hew (Guest)
Yeah yeah and then I've probably started to use voice notes a lot and voice recording.
17:45
I love it yeah, and kind of, because I get like maybe being with dialogue and stuff like that, that's sort of trying to come up, I think if you can talk it out, and then it is more conversational and you get weirder phrasing and it's more real phrasing, and then and then taking it and transcribing it, and then you might need to muck stuff around a little bit.
18:05
So I find that quite good. I use butcher's paper a lot, butcher's paper and sharpies, so I do a process called clustering, which is that's an essential part of my writing process. So I get a big piece of butcher's paper and in the middle I might write something like images and desires of myself as the ultimate scientist I wanted to explore a scientist character and then I circle that and then I just write like absolute gung-ho, like write a sentence, circle it, write another sentence, circle it, write da, da, da, and then you kind of you might go to the end of what I call a stanza. You might have I don't know 14 of them or you might have 30 of them. Go back to the middle circle, write, write write until you fill up the whole butcher's paper.
19:00
So it's full of these bubbles amazing and then what you do is um, I get another notepad and then I um, close my eyes and I spin the cluster and whatever I put my finger on, whatever a bubble I put my finger on, they go. I'm an Albert Einstein looking at a nuclear bomb or whatever.
19:23 - Hew (Guest)
Albert Einstein looking at a nuclear bomb, and then then spit it again. Whatever bubble I go, he thinks this is a bad idea or whatever um, and then I'll spit it again until I don't know. It's sort of about like 14 to 20 lines forms a poem and then the title of the poem is the top, which is images desires for myself as the ultimate scientist, or ultimately hungry, or ultimately a character, or my ultimate song could be anything, and then you read the poem and then you read the poem top down, and then the trippy thing is is read the poem bottom up and then, some reason, 95% of the time reading the poem bottom up, you're like it makes sense where you go.
20:11
Oh, sense, or you go, oh that's the show or that's the bit, or so. I find that a really great process for, like, I guess, a lot of trying where possible, where I can go to the right brain yeah, at times trying to be too logical, often that's a good circuit breaker. If I need a, a thing I'm a bit stuck maybe go to that or, like, often use it in a lot of initial stages and then to kind of to find stuff. There might just be an image in it that's really unexpected that you go. Oh, or the way two lines join up which kind of go that to that goes. Oh my God, that makes so much sense. But it's sort of to that goes. Oh my god, that makes so much sense. But it's sort of it's a slightly deeper place or something like that. So, um, I find that a really great, a really great tool.
21:03
Um, music is massive for me. I like I work with music 99% of the time. That's probably one of my biggest tools and triggers. And, um, often I like I write to use a lot of ambient music, but then I like to also surprise myself as well, and often music will lead and I will kind of I think I got from the artist way. It's not that it tells you to do it, but they said this thing about go on artist dates and so take yourself out to do different things. And a thing that I did was in my car I've got a six CD player and I find, you know, with streaming, you know, often it sort of feels like it's trying to lead you where you want to go or what your tastes are with things like Spotify, whereas I find sometimes going to the library and then just picking out six random CDs and kind of going oh okay, that looks interesting, that looks interesting.
22:00
And then putting those, and then I put those six CDs in my car for two weeks and then I'd kind of just listen to them, and then it's often it's like oh, that's crap, that's crap, that's crap.
22:09
But then you go, oh, that's interesting, yeah, I hadn't thought of that style before, or and then like and then I used to when I had a really old, crappy car which didn't have anything, just had the radio, and then often I just would go between different radio stations and sort of go just like in the car and then sort of like you know a big part of Giovanni and how that grew, was just listening to SBS radio and just trying to practice gibberish along to that, was trying to kind of create this almost Italian kind of gibberish to that.
22:39 - Alexis (Host)
Giovanni's, one of your shows?
22:40 - Hew (Guest)
Yeah, so it was an Italian waiter character that I played, yeah, um, so there's things like that. I guess you know where possible like tools and resources, you know like where, if you can, you know your community, your collaborators, your peers is a big part of it finding those people that you really trust, your feedback and that you can kind of go to and that you sort of you've got a really good simpatico with. Probably for me, you know therapy, you know it's probably because it is, you know, it does bring up stuff and my work is very personal as well. So I think I mean I'm sometimes a little bit obsessive on that side of as well, but, um, those kind of, I guess, tools of taking care of yourself.
23:24
You know I've found at times, therapy really useful and then other kind of self-care things, um, spiritually, books like um Pema Chodron’s When Things Fall Apart there's often a book I go back to. I've found it's weirdly, I've found that book around the world when I've been in moments of distress. It's sort of. It's like it's almost kind of pops up.
23:44
It just pops up and it's like everything will be okay and um also there's, I kind of think I mean I probably need to get a bit better at it at right at the moment, but it's also like in your skills and looking at your skills. And I think another thing I got from artist way was I like one of the artist dates and I had this thing of, for some reason I went there was this shop and it had this box set of DVDs probably watching DVDs a bit more of this French clown for Jacques Tati and I kept on looking at that box set. No, no, it's maybe a hundred and ten dollars or something like that.
24:22
And I guess the Artit’s Way was quite good at going. You know, feed your artist and so what did your artist want? And I think I need to buy that box set and I bought that box set and um and his movies they're great with them in. They're slow and they're ponderous at times. But then what was really good was they would have these different directors analyze the movie afterwards and I actually kind of found them like they were breaking down comedy and they're breaking down the way comedy works and how he'd shoot and what he would do and certain gestures and other things that he did and actually through that I went oh, this is my craft like this is my craft, so like, , and then you know, and then.
24:58 - Alexis (Host)
You had the aha moment
25:01 - Hew (Guest)
Yeah So what I every now and then what I need to do is I'll go back to YouTube, you know, get YouTube resource, and then I might watch clown routines. Like I'll probably twice a year watch James Thierree who's Charlie Chaplin's grandson, who's just like like is there one, like can he share a bit of talent with someone else?
25:20 - Alexis (Host)
How very dare you
25:23 - Hew (Guest)
He's like incredibly good looking. He's a phenomenal clown. He's so buff he, like he can roll a blade while playing the violin and then, he, he creates and directs and writes t, oh god, I'm like, oh he's, he's ripped.
23:35 - Alexis (Host)
Got some bromance happening here, don't you
25:40 - Hew (Guest)
I'm like you're like, he’s ripped! oh my god, I need to, but like he's, but it's just, his skill, you know, and it's also it, it's so playful. And then, I guess, feeding yourself in that way, so even kind of going back to that, and even these sort of silly little clown routines that I might like or you know, I guess that's in some way that kind of goes ah, you know, that's your, you know. So I guess you know, whatever your field is, that you sort of also kind of um, remind yourself that it is your world and it's your skill and give to your artist and you know what kind of feeds the artist as well, you know so.
26:26 - Alexis (Host)
As a as a musician, like some of my managers or like mentors have always said. It's like punters don't know necessarily and can't pinpoint it, but it's that authenticity and that, that thing that they can connect in and they don't know what that is, it's just something that they can latch onto right. If you could give one piece of advice or nugget of advice to another creative, what would it be?
26:47 - Hew (Guest)
You know, a big part of clown is is like failure, I think, and being okay with failing and I guess sometimes we're afraid of I guess maybe sometimes it's even just that maybe even that first idea or dumping it out or it might be bad or something like that.
27:07
And so I think sometimes just like or I can't remember who is it, is it Elizabeth Gilbert or Anne Lamott, whatever, talk about the shitty first draft, and I think the riot in a way is sort of just sometimes and it gets a bit like what my teacher would. Trivial pursuit was like just get it out, just get something out and then let's look on it and so then find that little scaffolding. So I guess sometimes just you know, finding another thing, my teacher would say it's, it's not work, it's puke. So he would say like vomited it out, and then you're like get it out, and then you can kind of look at it and you can find those little chunks and you can sort of go like, oh, that's actually that piece of pineapple is kind of interesting. Let's kind of put that over there. That's kind of unexpected. So I guess sometimes I think where maybe we can be kind of so paralyzed or so worried about doing perhaps anything, or like having the whole picture or something like that.
28:05 - Alexis (Host)
So I think that we just don't start.
28:07 - Hew (Guest)
We just don't start, you know, yeah, yeah.
28:11 - Alexis (Host)
One last question.
28:12 - Hew (Guest)
Yes.
28:13 - Alexis (Host)
If you could have anyone come on to this podcast and answer these questions who would it be, and why?
28:20 - Hew (Guest)
I was thinking about this one. It's like I mean, the dream would be Tom Waits. You know go to California and go to his farm and have a chat with Tom Waits that would be amazing. Um my friend, Ida Sophia, who's a visual artist here and she's started to do really um fascinating kind of immersive, durational performance art work um, which often is sort of very, very, very personal.
28:51
There's been a couple of shows about her dad and I feel like it's a real, I think it's just, I guess, someone it's a friend and I kind of I'm not jealous at all, but I just actually kind of see, I feel like she has found her thing and she is in and really challenging this form in Australia and really kind of doing some really interesting work. Um, so yeah
29:13 - Alexis (Host)
Oh Hew , thank you so much for being on the podcast through the creative door.
29:23 - Hew (Guest)
It's been an absolute pleasure thank you for having me.
29:25 - Alexis (Host)
I love it. Thank you.
