E9: Faster Than Normal Zombie Loyalists with Peter Shankman

SHOW NOTES:

 

00:30: Welcome back! Thanks for subscribing and joining us again!

00:46: Debbie’s Dad is using the remote senior care product and loving it

02:08: Kevin, his son and Peter did the NYC Triathlon..on the hottest day of the year!

03:42: Introducing our guest Peter Shankman!  Best sellers by Peter Shankman

03:52: When Peter met Kevin in 2012 on Kevin’s first podcast The Buzz Bubble; courtesy of the very talented Cindy Clifford! 

04:45: When Peter met Debbie. The Buzz Council Ep 2 – Peter Shankman, Dr. Bob Deutsch, and Deb Zmorenski on Customer Experiences

05:35: What’s been going on Peter?!

06:18: What’s a waffle you may ask? Follow @petersdogwaffle on INSTA

06:40: What do consumers expect right now? What can brands do to live up to, or exceed those expectations?

07:30: On “managing expectations”

08:37: On being consistent, consistently

09:57: A little story about Marriot’s Bon Voy Rewards program and consistency

10:46: You might be saving money, but at what cost? On Loyalty Rewards Programs.

13:56: Peter has switched to Forward for his healthcare.

15:05: Growth is always the right choice for a company- or is it?!  Ref: HARO

16:13: An honest question for anyone who is contemplating growing, or selling.

16:51:  If you're selling a product, or if you're in involved with a customer in any capacity…

17:06: Two stories illustrating how to, and how not to make a correction

19:23: This is the moral

19:43: Why the NYC Triathalon is “likely” never re-gaining Peter as a 16x competitor

21:22: Not to beat a dead horse, but the NYC Triathlon has some work to do..

22:13: [editor has tried & failed to find photographic evidence of Peter’s manatee example]

23:28: What is the Neuroatypical Economy? Ref: Neurodivergent and Neuroatypical also what is ADHD/ADD Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, Executive Function Learn more by checking out Peter’s podcast Faster Than Normal

24:18: A few reasons why it’s important to seek and hire neuroatypical, and neurodivergent people.

25:00: Breaking the stigmas of being Neuroatyopical. There is not reason to be fearful!

25:26: A few simple ways neurodiverse people may work differently 

26:16: Ref: Additude Magazine

26:57: ADHD and forms of neurodiversness are a gift, not a curse!

27:18: The world once worked 9 to 5 because that was what assembly line workers did! That is now dead.

28:12: Peter on his time at AOL versus “fully structured”, programmed days.

28:46: If you are a boss who feels that you can't trust your employees, then you have a hiring problem.

29:45: Peter’s Morton’s Steakhouse story. Ref: The Tweet in play

30:51: Constantly focusing on customer service.. 

32:12: The best piece of advice you’ll ever get!  (this week. we think.)

32:36: Than you Peter Shankman!!

32:45: Up next next week- our big Season Finale!!

33:21: End credits

Please find us on the Web at:  www.disneywaydigital.com 

Via email:  debbie@disneywaydigital.com  and  kevin@disneywaydigital.com 

And on the Socials at:  

Debbie:  LinkedIN and @DZmorenski on Twitter  and @dkzcoach on Facebook  

Kevin:  @BigBuzzKev on Twitter INSTA & Facebook

 

TRANSCRIPT via Descript: 

Intro: Magical customer experiences don't happen by accident. They happen through careful planning and meticulous design. Kevin and Debbie have been engineering, extraordinary customer experiences for over 30 years. Join us as we explore corporate culture, branding, service, excellence, and much more through storytelling, technical curiosity, and friendly conversation. The Disney way for the digital age will be revealed.

[00:00:29] KK: All right, folks, here we are episode nine. Believe it or not. We're calling this one Faster Than Normal Zombie Loyalists. And that is due to our wonderful guest, which I will introduce shortly, but, uh, Deb and I just gotta catch up. I haven't seen you in a while. I haven't seen you. Thank you for sending those videos of your Dad. Mm-hmm um, he's using the remote senior care product and he was some. He is the cutest thing. Um, he is, and the apple doesn't fall far. 

[00:00:58] Debbie: Thank you. He told me that any time you needed anything, he would do it for you. 

[00:01:05] KK: So super nice and so glad that he likes it. You know, he you're able to keep in touch with him and he likes that, uh, Alexa does a little dance for him and you can save a trip or two going over to visit your Dad. Uh, if he doesn't pick up the phone. 

[00:01:20] Debbie: Yeah, well, when he doesn't pick up the phone or he leaves it off the hook, I do a drop in cuz if he's in the house, I can at least get catch up to him. And I'm not in a panic all the time and say, Dad, your phone's off the hook. Last time I called the police for a wellness check he got really mad at me. Yeah. Embarrasses him, y'know, so, yeah, he calls her his best friend. 

[00:01:45] KK: Oh, that's so nice. 

[00:01:46] Debbie: I'm serious. He said, this is, is my best friend 

[00:01:49] KK: and its about companionship too. I do that with my Mom and it's just nice and you know, it can play anyway. Yeah. 

[00:01:55] Debbie: Peter's comment, you know, it's, it is not really a conversation, but he thinks of it as a conversation. He asks her questions and she answers and she says, play my music and she plays his music and you know, he asks and 

[00:02:08] KK: I think we're just at the beginning. There's so much more to come that, you know, be interactive and stimulating. So yeah. Yeah. What else have we been up to? So this last weekend, uh, our illustrious guest talked to me into signing up for another race, the New York city triathlon. And it was, um, hottest day of the year in New York city. So, um, my son and I, um, and we'll, we'll talk to Peter when he, when he comes on in a moment about. But so my son and I go, we, we, we find out that it is the hottest day of the year. They've shortened, uh, the, the bike in the run. So those are the you that, that don't know triathlon is a, a swim, a bike in a run. And this one is a mile swim in the Hudson river, usually with a current behind you. So. It is the, what they call not wetsuit legal. And which just means you can't wear the wetsuit, which makes you buoyant and sleek and swim better for me. So as we're walking down, I turned to my son, I said, I'm out I said, I really just wanna watch you and keep you safe. Cuz you know, he's doing this. He hasn't done a mile swim. He's he's very good with triathlon. He was in the nationals last year, but um, So I'd, I'd prefer to just stay out and, and make sure you stay safe. So he did it, he did it with outta the wetsuit and, um, it also, uh, uh, let us stay together cuz we were originally in different waves. So when he got out, we were able to do the, the bike and, and the run together. So it was kind of cool. 

[00:03:34] Debbie: I called the try torture event, but you know, that's all right. 

not my thing . 

[00:03:39] KK: So, um, yeah, so our, our guest today, we are so lucky to have Peter Shankman, uh, Peter and I met just over 10 years ago. When he was on my first podcast, the buzz bubble in 2012. Uh, wow. We'll post a link to that on the website and you can entertain yourself and see what we both looked like 10 years ago. Um, incidentally, he was introduced by our, the voice of our introduction, Cindy Clifford. She said you should get Peter on your show. Um, so by that time, 10 years ago, he'd already written a bestselling book and is, was on his way to having five bestselling books on Amazon today, including Zombie Loyalists steps favorite and Faster Than Normal -Turbocharge your Focus, Productivity, and Success with the Secrets of the ADHD Brain. Peter returned to the podcast a couple years later on an episode called the buzz council that featured Peter and the renowned cognitive anthropologist, Dr. Bob Deutsch at our own Debbie Z so they've been together, uh, and have met previously. So Peter and I become fast friends over the last 10 years. And Peter's pulled me into things like signing up for Ironman triathlon in Atlantic city. Um, a new year's Eve race in New York city in zero degree weather with my wife, Stacy, who will never let me forget that we did that. And then she drags me out in 30 degree weather to run and I'm like, I don't wanna, she's like you did it in zero. We're doing this. So thanks for that, Peter. He also keynotes for fortune 100 companies as well as startups and has spoken in over 25 countries and is currently the futurist in residence at Price Benowitz and Blue Shark Digital and without further ado. And that was a lot of ado welcome to the show. Peter Shankman! What's up, Peter? 

[00:05:27] Peter: Good to be back, man. Good to be back. How are you? 

[00:05:30] KK: Oh, I, we are doing great. And we're so glad to have you, what have you been up to, what's been going on, let's start with what's new in your life. 

[00:05:38] Peter: What's new in my life. I'm living in a flop house in battery park city. Uh, while I , while I wait for my apartment to be renovated, I had a, had a massive water issue several months ago. My floors got destroyed. Uh, so I'm, um, they're finally insurance finally kicked in. And so they're, they're, I'm having all new floors, new paint, the whole thing. And so, but it's taken forever and, um, hopefully, hopefully another week and a half, but I gotta got a decent view of the stature Liberty from where I am right now. But, uh, I miss my place 

[00:06:07] KK: Sounds like a decent flop house.. . Um, could be worse. Yeah. You got, you got a great apartment with a killer view and yeah. the scene how about Waffle where's Waffle this time is waffle?

[00:06:16] Peter: Uh he's uh, 

[00:06:17] KK: oh, Waffle gets to hang. Oh, so Waffle is with you. Good. 

[00:06:20] Peter: Yeah. He's spending, spending a decent amount of time in doggy storage, but. Uh, I can, I can bring it out every once in a while. 

[00:06:25] KK: So he's Waffle is the coolest guy. So let's talk about what's going on in the world, uh, that affects consumers and service and customer experience, all those things that Deb I've been talking about this season that is so aligned with everything you do, you wanna talk a little bit about what consumers expect and you know, what can brands do to live up to, or maybe even exceed those expectations?

[00:06:51] Peter: I mean, customer service has always been crap and it really went to shit after COVID, um, or during COVID because everyone had an excuse. Oh, you know, we don't know, we don't know the manpower. Oh, we, our people are out. And, and the problem with doing things like that is that they never actually come back. Right. You know, when, when, when companies manage to lower the bar, it's very, for, for whatever reason, it's very rare that they bring it back up. Um, right. We'll just, and, and a lot of that is our fault because we sort of accept it. Right. Uh, you know, back in the fifties, flying used to be glamorous. Somehow we started accepting, um, that flying sucked and now most airlines do the absolute bare minimum. I, I always talk about this when I give my speeches and you know, who had a good flight, someone raises their hand. I go, what made it good? We took off on time, land on time. Okay. That's just called a flight. That's not actually [crosstalk] and so, so when the bar. Is so unbelievable below. Um, I don't really need you to be awesome. I teach companies. I don't, I don't need them to be amazing. I need, I need you to suck slightly less yeah. Than everyone else. Um, 

[00:07:56] KK: yeah. What you just described is they met expectations, right? We took off and we landed. We didn't crash. 

[00:08:01] Peter: exactly. We didn't know. I wasn't dragged by the plane by my nose. And that's, that's really, the key is, you know, if you can do the bare minimum, uh, people tend to be very happy with that. And it's funny. It doesn't take much to do the bare minimum and it takes almost as little to do 1% better. Um, right. You know, so I don't need you to like, you know, redefine pie. I just need you to be slightly better than everyone else. And, and, and for the companies that get it, it's actually a, a brilliant time to be, uh, a company, because like I said, the bar is so low. Right, right. It's pretty easy to do all the things and win everything. Yeah. 

[00:08:37] KK: I mean, and if you could do it consistently, right. Be adequate consistently. Um, , that's all we're asking. Right? It's like, you know, I've, I've heard you talk and you always say, I know when I order a Diet Coke, I'm just gonna get a Coke. And I just expect that it's like, if you can consistently bring me the Diet Coke, like, uh, Deb, you're the one that turned me onto, um, Holiday Inn Express. What I love about them is they are what they are, but they're consistently the same. And I get cinnamon buns, which by the way is probably, that's probably why I book it, but you know, it's clean. It is not luxurious, but I get a place to stay and, you know, things are consistent. Um, and they meet my expectations every time. 

[00:09:23] Debbie: And not, and not to be confused with Holiday Inn because the Holiday Inn is not the same thing. Holiday Inn Express is that step above Holiday Inn. It's kind of a crapshoot. You never know what you're gonna get. So it, you know, it's a, it's strange because they're all part of the same brand per se. Um, interesting. 

[00:09:43] Peter: It's it's funny also because you have, um, You know, for something like Holiday Inn Express , where they're doing the bare minimum, getting your cinnamon bun, um, God help you. God help them the one day they don't have cinnamon buns for you. Yes. Right? Um, Marriott, I, I was, I was platinum I'm platinum for life at, at, at Starwood, which meant that I spent 10 years, 10 years spending 15 nights or more a year in a Starwood hotel, 10 years in a row. And for that, I got platinum status for life. And then Starwood was eaten by Marriot and they created something called Bonvoy. Yeah. And Bonvoy is their, is their sort of combined program? Um, problem is platinum was their highest level. They created two elements above platinum. Uh, they created titanium and lifetime titanium. So you can't create an element doesn't work like that. And so now. Um, I don't get shit for being platinum for life. Right? 10 years of loyalty, no longer matters. And so I've pretty much stopped staying with Marriot I've moved to Hilton, Hilton matched my status in like 30 seconds after I tweeted them. Um, you know, and, and even the stupid things, like when I have to stay at Marriott, I had to stay at Mariott uh, last week. Uh, cause I was speaking at a conference and they booked me. It was at that hotel and um, even the stupid things they used to do, there was no free water. There was no free bottle of water in the hotel room, but there was definitely two, $9 per bottle bottles of water in the hotel room. And it's those kind of things that, you know, You might be saving money, but at what cost, right? 

[00:11:25] KK: Yeah. And it's crazy, you know, they, they have so many levels. Do I even feel special anymore? It's like, you know, when you're waiting to board, 

[00:11:32] Peter: it's like, exactly. Well, that's the thing. The last thing, you know, it's one thing if I never had status, but I was top tier. And then for whatever reason you decided, Nope, you're not right, but we're gonna add more to, that's not cool. That's even worse than if that's even worse than if I'd never been top tier to begin with. Right? 

[00:11:47] KK: You don't matter. You don't matter anymore. You, you matter more than anything. Oh, wait. It's Tuesday. You don't really matter 

[00:11:52] Peter: And what's funny is that companies, uh, small companies still do that. Still make that, that horrible error. They go where at 9,990 Facebook followers are 10,000 follower gets a gift, which is just a classic screw. You. to the first 9,999. Right. 

[00:12:08] KK: Thanks for showing up late. 

[00:12:09] Peter: Yeah. So right. You no longer matter it's just ridiculous. 

[00:12:13] Debbie: Peter. I I'll tell you what happened once to me is I'd had this particular credit card for, uh, years and years and years pay it off every time I got the bill, great customer, and I'm going into a, a department store one day and they had people out front saying, uh, for new customers only you get all these free gifts. Right? Right. So I just to start trouble, I went up and said, um, well, what about me? I've I've had your credit card for 10 years. I pay it off every month. When it comes in, I use it all the time. I'm a great customer. And the, the poor young man behind the table said, well, this is only for, for new customers. I said, well, why I, what about your loyal customer? And I just went back forth and gave him a really hard time. Then I said, I just messing with you, but. They don't get it. You know, I was a little resentful. I don't get anything for being loyal. 

[00:13:01] Peter: No question, about it! And that's the thing is, is that, you know, I, I left my doctor recently. I've been with the doctor for like 25 years and he was fine, but his practice was acquired by Northwell health and, and all of a sudden. You're waiting 20 minutes online and 20 minutes on the phone. Um, their app never works. You know, they promised all these great things with this, with this, with this, a acquisition. And it just, it just got worse and worse, worse to the point where they, you get charged. Now, if you cancel an appointment within three days, um, of the appointment. So, so I had a cancel cause I was traveling and they said, okay, that's, we're gonna have to bill you. And I'm like okay. You know what then let me just, uh, let me just change it. Can I change this to next week? And they go, sure. No problem. I changed next week. And then I called back. I'm like, hi, I'd like to cancel my appointment for next week. Um, don't try to out stupid me cuz you'll lose. Right. But it's like, I switched over to this medical group called uh, Forward. Which you pay 199 bucks a year and the app works and you get an appointment within 24 hours and you can be seen blah, blah. Um, granted, they just got acquired by Amazon. So I have a feeling I'm kind of screwed.

[00:14:08] KK: Oh, they did good for them, them for a wow 

3.2 billion. So, you know, It's like, okay, well now, now Amazon, uh, uh, knows my, my blood sugar levels, but it's, um, you know, it, it, it, it begs the question of why would you lose, you know, how many, if you lost me after 25 years, 25 years with the same doctors? A lot of time. Yeah, yeah. Right. Started with this guy when I was like 25. Right. And, and so, and he was my parents doctor. Right. And so. I would've brought my daughter to him eventually, but he, he blew it. Right. And it's a shame. Nice guy. Well, 

yeah. And it begs the question that we, we talked about. I think they talked about this last week is growth, always the goal, right? Sometimes staying small or getting smaller, giving better service and the service you wanna give is the right move. Like everybody talks about how do I grow? How do I grow? Maybe that's not the right choice. It's not, well, I'll say it bluntly. It's not always the right choice. 

[00:15:05] Peter: Well, it's not, when I sold Help A Reporter Out , I had two options. I could've, uh, grown the company for 10 years. Been, you know, had to be a, a manager, had to be a CEO, done all the shit I hated and probably wouldn't have worked, um, or I could sold and let another company do it who was better at it. Right. Growth is great. If you're better. If you're good at doing it, if you're growing just for the sake, to say you're growing and you have no real plan on how to handle that. You know, you, you, you it's like all the people that got dot coms, and then I change their name to whatever their company was.com in, in like 1999. Um, for what? Right. Just so you could say you did it, right? It's like, you know, you, you gotta, if you're going. Do that, if you're gonna get acquirer, make sure you have a plan to get your shit together.

[00:15:45] KK: Absolutely. And I, you know, a lot of our listeners are, are small business mid-size business and growth is a goal. And, you know, I, I, I really think you need to look at. Is this why I started this company, whether it's last year or 20, you know, in my case, you know, 25 years ago, I grew into something that honestly, I didn't, I didn't have passion for anymore. In fact, it was nice. I, I got to sell it last year and it, it actually, you know, universe all came together nicely for me and that's fine, but I begged people to like, keep looking back at like, is this. I want the company to be, and I originally set out to do and aligns with my passions or, and this is what sucks me in, or was I just up for the next challenge? And I'm like, yeah, I could do that. Or I wanna make sure I show everybody I could do that or show myself that I could do that. I mean, , I'm, I'm I'm I own a CBD company because I was up for the challenge. And then one day I look back I'm. I'm, that's not my passion. this wasn't my company. I got sucked into it. And then somebody left. So really gotta reevaluate step back and say, am I still passionate about what we stand for? 

[00:16:51] Peter: And that's the thing, you know, I think that, that at the end of the day, if you're selling a product or if you're in involved with a customer in any capacity, the first passion has to be towards customer experience. And if it's not, you know, if it's not. You gotta reevaluate what you're doing because I don't care how great your product is. I I, a perfect example. I, um, I bought this ridiculous scooter. You could see a little bit in the back, probably in the background of my, of my thing. And it it's, it goes 78 miles an hour. There's absolutely no reason I should. 

[00:17:17] KK: Oh, come on! 

[00:17:18] Peter: No joke. There's no reason I should ever have bought this scooter. I got it up to 48 miles an hour. And I I'm like, okay, I'm scared shitless right now. And I shit, I'm never, never gonna take it out it has dual motors and 48 miles an hour was just one motor, 

[00:17:29] KK: dual motors.

[00:17:30] Peter: What's crazy about it. I get an email, an urgent email last week: do not charge the scooter. Um, after like apparently they had three cases of the charger, malfunctioning and lithium batteries catching on fire. Wow. And you not want, you do not want lithium batteries to catch on fire. And they say if, if you have, if you see any strange. Uh, things with scooter, whatever immediately, um, uh, take it outside, uh, put it in outside location, like, okay, I live in an apartment, I can't do that. So I'm just not gonna charge it, but then they said we are sending you, uh, two new fuses and new chargers. It's a quick 15 minute fix, but please do not charge a scooter until you get that. And they followed up after I ordered it. The thought up, they, Hey, its let you know a package on the way again, please do not charge a scooter. If you have any questions, call us 24 hours. They, they did the right thing and they did it well .On the flip side. A year and a half ago or a year? Yeah, about a year and a half ago. My. CPAP machine was recalled. Um, because apparently the, the tubing was breaking apart into little, little micro pieces of plastic and going down people's lungs and killing them. Nice. That's kinda a big deal, kinda a big deal. But, uh, you know how I found out about that? I read it in the fucking paper.

[00:18:39] KK: Oh my God.

[00:18:40] Peter: I wasn't my, the manufacturer didn't call me. The place I got. My sleep apnea the place i got diagnosed didn't call me. Nothing. Wow. I literally read about it in the paper and, and the. The Phillips Phillips, um, uh, the company that makes it, they have been sending me emails the past year, letting me know that, uh, they have 2 million items, 2 million units that they have to, uh, replace and. I'm in the queue. okay. This is sleep apnea. This isn't like something you can mess up! Sleep apnea. You could die. I was, I my test said that I was stopping breathing 79 times an hour. Oh my gosh. Before I got my CPAP 

[00:19:23] KK: An hour!

[00:19:23] Peter: And I mean, the fact I'm not dead or like a gerbil or vegetable, or whatever, is a miracle. So now you're telling me that I'm waiting over a year and a half. If I didn't have the money to buy another unit out of pocket, what the hell would I do? Right. 

[00:19:37] KK: Right. It's it. It's the thing that helps you breathe it, night not the scooter in the corner that you could stop riding for a week. 

[00:19:43] Peter: And yet the scooter gave me the best possible customer experience. Right. And again, it's, you know, you were talking earlier about the triathlon. It's the same thing I have done New York city triathlon 15 years for 15 years. Wow. It was originally run by a guy named John [unintelligable] he launched it 20 something years ago. I've been doing it since like 2005 I think. And it's a wonderful race. A lot of fun. Yeah. Um, it was., was. And then it was purchased by Lifetime Fitness, Lifetime Events. And the past five years, the triathlon has either canceled or shortened every single year. Yeah. And. I emailed. So, and sure enough this year they can't, they, they turned it from a full Olympic into less than a sprint, uh, because of the heat, mind you, it wasn't, they said it's gonna be a hundred degrees. Mind you, it wasn't 100 degrees at 6:00 AM. Right. And they could have easily done it. They had delays at the start, which, which resulted in half the people, I think, including your son having to fight the current. In the water. Yeah. Um, and, 

[00:20:40] KK: and it was later, right? So it it's hotter it started half hour, late, 

[00:20:44] Peter: 45 minutes late. Cause they had, they had a maintenance issue and , I tweeted. It's like, Hey, so guys, um, since you're shortening it, it's no longer an official the length of the race that we paid for. Uh, are you gonna offer deferrals or refunds? No, you're still getting a race. So we're not offering any deferrals or refunds. I right. Did this race for 15 years in a row. I talked them up. I defended them every year. Oh, things happen. Fuck them. I'm done. I am done. I will. I. 

[00:21:07] KK: I mean, that's a simple math, Peter, right? It's like I bought 12 oranges. You're giving me six. Exactly. I'm not even giving some money back or tell me I can do it next year.

[00:21:16] Peter: I will die on the hill that Lifetime Fitness is the absolute worst company in the world. And it is just, you know.

[00:21:22] KK: Not to beat a dead horse, but it was, it was a, it was a rough time. I got my son who's is in much better shape than me, but you know, he's my son. I was worried. So we're sitting at the athlete briefing and they say, um, oh, some interesting statistics, uh, one outta six have never done this triathlon New York city. Oh. And one outta four, um, have never done any triathlon. So that's pretty cool. And by the way, if the water goes 1.1 degree over 78, we're not gonna let you use a wetsuit. Right? Wait. People are in the Hudson river, swing a mile. One mile, and you're gonna tell them that the thing that they've been practicing. Hopefully they've been practicing. Cuz there are a lot of newbies in this race. They can't the thing that keeps them buoyant. They can't use .Now, now that I 

was texting Peter, Peter, I was texting you. 

[00:22:11] Peter: Right. I'm like, oh yeah, it was ridiculous. 

[00:22:12] KK: Someone's gonna die today. 

[00:22:13] Peter: Now here's the funny thing. I actually will never wear a wetsuit no matter what the temperature, because. Um, there, there is video from me doing a half Ironman in Buffalo Springs, Texas, and there's video of me trying to get the wetsuit off, uh, after the swim . And imagine, imagine a crane dropping a Manatee onto a dirt road. um, wait, so since that day, since 2009, I've never worn a wetsuit in any race or swim, but, um, but I understand that people like them and they do help with buoyancy, but yeah, I, uh, I refuse, but it's, it's. And the interesting thing is, is that the us triathlon Association's actual rules, don't say that above this temperature, you're not allowed to wear a wetsuit. They say above this temperature, it's not wetsuit legal. Which means , you can wear a wetsuit, you just won't win in the award. And yes, I'm not gonna win an award anyway.

[00:22:55] KK: And the guy at the briefing said this with pride, you could not believe the guy at the briefing said this with pride. He even said, U S T A oh, you mean the global authority for sanctioning triathlon? He said USTA they'll let you go. But. We're we play the hard line. I'm like, wait a minute. Why, why do you anyway. So this is about how not to be a brand and, and treat your customers so crazy. So let's talk about something simpler neuro atypical economy, the neuro atypical economy, Peter. Talk to us about that.

[00:23:28] Peter: Neuroatypical yeah, essentially it's 15 to 20% of the, of the workforce and of customers and of employees who are gonna be neurotypical that's ADD, ADHD, autism, executive function disorder, uh, anything along those lines, anything that makes your brain a little different. So if you're looking at, and, and there's 20% of the people, 20% of the workforce are usually the most creative. Yeah. So if you're a company, you need to learn how to hire for those people, how to attract those people, how to keep those people. Yeah, no question about.

[00:23:53] KK: Yeah. And I was, I was talking to Deb about this a little before the, we started recording and I said maybe cuz I travel in creative circles, but almost everyone I know says, oh yeah, I am somewhere on the spectrum. And uh, you know, I love that Peter, you embrace it. It's a superpower. I agree. It's like faster, you know, we can get more things done. I can think about five things at once and I can juggle them and not sacrifice quality. It is a superpower. 

[00:24:18] Debbie: You know, Kevin and I were talking about this earlier, and there's also the term neuro divergent for those people who are not, you know, neurotypical and, and businesses want to hire, as you said, those neurotypical people, but you get so much, you. Of the same thought process you get into group think. When you start branching out and hiring people who are not neurotypical, who are neuro atypical, um, these are the folks who do think differently and . Communicate differently and have different ideas from the norm. And that's where you're going to get your best ideas. Uh, and yet I think honestly, and I, and I said this to Kevin and it's just my opinion, but I think a lot of, uh, business owners, bosses, whatever you wanna call 'em are afraid of these people. What do I do with these people? Am, am I going to have to make ADA requirements? And, and what if they don't follow the rules and what, you know, um, will I lose control if I bring these people in and. So if you just keep hiring, everyone that thinks the same way, you're not going to get creative ideas. 

[00:25:24] Peter: And what's really interesting about what you just said. And it's really the point is that, is that there are people who are actually afraid to, um, let their boss know that they're neuro divergent and for me, that's the craziest thing in the world because I'm telling- if I, if I worked for someone, I'd be like, look, boss, I, I will get more done. I will get more. Uh, I will be more, uh, productive than any of your other employees. All I ask is that you let me do things in a way that works for me, and you're not gonna have to buy me a standing desk or all that crap. I just might, some days I might commit at 3:00 AM and work till noon mm-hmm. Because I work better quiet. I might wear my headphones, whatever the case may be. Right. The benefits far outweigh, uh, anything you might have to do. I I'm, I'm a Lamborghini. Uh, you just gotta give some road. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And once I explain that and they see it, um, there's no question about it. 

You know, I, I, I remember one of the, there's a magazine called Additude a DDI I two to it's the ADHD or D D and ADHD magazine. And, um, Someone wrote a, uh, an article called why you should never tell your boss, your A DD and, um, wow. Pissed me off. And so of course, I, did a deep dive into who this person, but of course she's a, she's , an ADD coach who, you know, was pitching her services and all that, but right. She sent me this scathing reply . I'm like, I'm like, I'm not, I'm not walking up to you and licking you and then telling you I have herpes. This is not that. This is an entirely different process that can benefit you. And, and you're telling someone not to own that. And you're, you're shaming them for what they have. What are we in the 1400's here? Here? Yeah, it was, it was, yeah. It's it's. I believe it's a gift. There's no question. It's a gift. It's very, very, very, very useful if you know how to use it.

[00:27:03] Debbie: Yeah. 

[00:27:04] KK: I think the other really important thing you said there is that I need to work the way I need to work and this idea that we're still grappling with remote and you know, the world's worked Monday through Friday nine to five because that was what assembly line workers did. Exactly. We're not doing assembly line. We're not putting together cars and engines. And, you know, we're, we're building things that are made of code and dots and asterisks. You know what I mean? There's all kinds of different things that are, are, are, are jobs today that. didn't look anything like when someone decided, and let's not forget that, you know, all these things that we abide by these rules, quote, unquote, were decided by somebody, right? Mm-hmm and this particular one is about a hundred years old. Let's just throw it in the garbage and let's let you know, John show up at, at 3:00 PM work till 3:00 AM, whatever, you know. Yeah. Work at work at home. Don't chat at the water cooler, do chat at the water cooler. You know, I think you just gotta let people work the way they work and just look at the output, right? It's like, don't care if it came at 9, 9 9:07 

[00:28:11] Peter: 7, no. And work. Another thing I I've talked to bosses who get that and they say, you know, I don't care. Let, let the guy work from the Boreal forest, as long as he's getting the job done. And it was funny. The only job I ever really had full time was America Online. And when I was at AOL, they let us work anyway, we wanted, and then I, I left AOL and I moved back to New York and I took a job, uh, at a. And it lasted two weeks because we had 8:00 AM meetings and then we had 9:30 AM editorial meetings. Then we had 11:00 AM check-ins and we had a half an hour for lunch and I'm like, oh my God, this is Russia. And I couldn't do it. And I quit. I quit two weeks after I started. And, uh, you know, and then I went outta my own was the best thing ever happened. So. No, it it's crazy. It's crazy. 

[00:28:46] Debbie: Yeah. I'm convinced that the biggest reason that companies do not let their workers remote work remotely because they don't trust them. Yeah. How do they, how do I know that they're working? And honestly, if you let folks work the way it fits their natural personalities. I believe 99% of them will get the job done. They might not work nine to five. They might not do it the way you would do it, but they're going to get the job done. They're gonna give your results. And isn't that what you're looking for, the results. 

[00:29:16] Peter: And I'll tell you, I'll tell you this. If you, if you are a boss who feels that you can't trust your employees, You have a hiring problem.

[00:29:23] KK: Right.

[00:29:23] Debbie: Yes you do. Yeah. Yes you do.

[00:29:25] KK: So believe it or not, we are, we are getting towards the end here, but I do wanna fit in two more things cuz we talk about magical customer experiences here. I'm gonna, I'm sure Peter's tired of telling the story, but I'm gonna ask them to tell the Morton's story. And then Peter is gonna be the guy this week that imparts the best piece of advice ever we think. But yeah. The Morton story. 

[00:29:47] Peter: The Morton story is, is a fun one. So I was 11 years ago. I was heading back from a meeting. I, I had a day trip to Fort Lauderdale for a meeting with Kirstie Alley strangely enough. That's that's the part that I always forget get . It was like, that was like the cool, that was the second coolest thing I wound up doing that day. Um, and this was before she went all bat shit, MAGA crazy, but I was, uh, I was, I had a meeting with Kirsti Kirstie Alley and I I'm, I'm going back to the airport and I'm starving and I was training for some race or something so I was very careful about what I ate. I didn't want airplane food. So I jokingly sent a tweet. Hey, Morton's why don't you meet me in Newark airport when I landed three hours with the porterhouse haha. The same way you tweet. Hey winter, please stop snowing. And um, I landed three hours later and I found my driver and next to my driver was a guy with a Morton's bag, a tuxedo carrying Morton's bag and uh, brilliant. It was a steak and shrimp and um, it was ridiculous. And I went to, uh, I went home, wrote a blog post about it and like two days later Mortons was on the Today Show show, talking about their incredible, uh, you know, here's the thing. It wasn't so much PR as it was customer experience, it wasn't planned. I mean, I, I, I swear in everything I hold dear. Right? It was not planned., but what people need to understand is that Morton's focuses on customer experience all the time. Yeah. And why do I say that? Because if you, if they deliver me a steak at the airport, you see that and you go, wow. They brought Peter Shankkman a steak at the airport. I'm gonna go to Morton's that's really, really cool. Um, and you go there. And your reservation is delayed and your, your drink is cold or drink is wrong drink and the, the food isn't right. You know, you're, you are gonna be, uh, sure. They bring, Shankman a steak and take the airport and they can get my thing right I'm never coming back here. So they have to make sure that everything they do is topnotch. And again, it's not difficult. They, they ask you a simple question when you make a reservation, they go, are you, uh, Celebrating anything. Oh yeah. It's my girlfriend's birthday. Hey, what's her name? My name's Gabriella it's hey that's great we'll see you. You Gabriel, on Friday night, you show up Friday eight, you get your table and sitting next to the, uh, you know, when you sit down, they give you a paper menu on the menu. It says happy birthday, Gabriella. And you know, that little thing that costs them, nothing to do, gets them more press than anything else, because what does, who are Gabby's friends? You know, what is she gonna do now? She's gonna go to Instagram and Instagram, the crap outta that for 45 minutes. And who are her friend? You know, people just like Gabby, all of them want their boyfriends to take them to a place where they can have their name on the menu so it. It doesn't take much. Mm-hmm no 

[00:31:59] KK: brilliant. Yeah. And they're paying attention and yeah, that, that was just such great execution. Um, and the fact that they pay attention to all these little things always pays off. Well, I'm gonna ask you to, uh, give our folks just one piece of advice through all this. And again, you know, our, our, our small business owners and leaders and managers, you know, what, what would you tell them if you could give them one wonderful best piece of advice ever today?

Peter: Be brilliant at the basics and everything else will fall into place.

KK: I like that. 

[00:32:32] Debbie: Yeah. Wonderful. 

[00:32:32] KK: That's awesome. Well, Peter, thank you so much. It's so good to see you. It's so wonderful to have you on, on the show today. I thank you so much.

[00:32:41] Peter: Always a pleasure, Kevin. Good to see everyone. And do it again.

[00:32:43] KK: Thanks Peter. Nice to see you again. All right. Tune in next week. It's the season finale. So we are wrapping up a wonderful season, so surprised and, and delighted by what has come of this , Deb. And I were just like, Hey, let's, let's try this thing out. So yes, season finale, big cliff hanger at the end so you gotta tune in, uh, we're gonna talk a little bit about Operations. Um, Deb is the self-proclaimed, but, uh, lives up to it, uh, Operations girl, and then we're gonna cram everything; a recap of everything we talked about on season one, all that in 31 and a half minutes. So thanks everyone tune in next week and we'll talk to you soon.

[00:33:20] Debbie: Bye now. 

[00:32:43] Outro: You've been listening to the Disney Way for the Digital age! 

Our producer and engineer is Steven Byrom. Show coordinator is Taranpreet Trehan. And voiceover by Cindy Clifford. Kevin and Debbie can be reached for free advice or paid consulting at kevin@disneyway.digital.com or debbie@disneywaydigital.com. A new episode is released each Tuesday morning. We hope you’ll continue to listen!

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