Why Hitchcock‘s ”The Birds” has no music | 029

Filmmaker Irving Nestor discusses an odd musical choice Hitchcock made in the making of The Birds and his opinion on its impact on the film.

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TRANSCRIPT [BETA]:

Cool. Luckily, my segment's going to
 be really quick, very unstructured.

Oh, this is the end.
 I didn't I forgot. 

I just got a lot 

of revenues lost.

Now, I'm going to be very quick,
 because I really just have like a

like a big question mark
 when it comes to my topic.

So I'm going to read introduce the
 the podcast real quick.

So welcome back to Mixed Media. 

We just heard from Ben and Nathan
 about the respective topics.

Go back to our podcast list.

We have playlists on YouTube.

We have our different platforms
 on all the streaming platforms. You

can possibly think of all the ones
 that have been trashed, probably.

But yeah, if you're
 listening on Spotify,

you should have a guilty conscience.
 I'm just kidding. 

But yeah, you should
 you should listen to those things, 

because I think both of those
 were extremely important talks.

And what I'm about to talk about 

are just random thoughts
 on one particular film.

So if you're looking for the most
 meaningful discussion,

definitely listen to the last
 two episodes from this week.

But today, I will be
 talking about the Birds

and the Birds, a film
 by Alfred Alfred Hitchcock.

Then did you end up
 watching any Hitchcock lately or.

I watch every watched
 North by Northwest.

I have not seen the birds.

Or you're just out of curiosity. 

I want to know what you thought
 about it afterwards. 

I think it's a really great film. 

You can see how it like
 impacts influences James Bond.

But but it's a different kind
 of sonic world, too.

It's kind of cool because I'm going
 to be playing some Bernard

Bernard Herrmann concert,
 and that's next Tuesday.

And we're doing Duran North
 by Northwest as part of that.

So it's kind of cool to play that,

to play that, too,
 after watching to watching it.

Now, it's an interesting it's
 an interesting film.

And like basically, I don't know, it
 just it's like it's fun to watch.

Yeah. And as a sneak peek
 into a future episode

that I'll probably do,
 that requires me to do research

and maybe even read
 a book or find out 

if I'll put that much effort
 into a podcast episode.

But I'm just personally curious
 because I like films.

So, you know, I might
 just do this for fun 

and then just relay
 back what I learned. 

But fun fact about north by northwest

is it might be somewhat
 factually based.

There's some interesting stuff. 

I remember I watched the film
 and I saw Central

Intelligence Agency
 appear on the screen

and I lost my mind
 because I was like, huh?

I had literally just
 learned about it.

I've had it read and like listening
 to the interesting things

about the CIA's infiltration
 of Hollywood, which kind of tied,

interestingly, back 

into what Ben was talking about
 with music and what I saw.

I didn't expect that
 because I didn't know 

and I knew nothing
 about north by northwest

when I went into it,
 which is how I like to watch films. 

I just put it on, you know,
 and I was like, huh?

I think this might be
 one of those films that the CIA

enjoyed because of how fun
 it was of a portrayal

of what is actually a reality,
 which is an interesting thing.

But anyway, that's for a that's
 that's for a different episode.

This episode, I'm
 going to talk about the birds. 

So I Alfred Hitchcock is kind

of an interesting director for me
 because I feel like,

well, I've watched four of his four
 or five of his films at this point.

I only have one film left
 in my little library to to enjoy

all physical copies. By the way, 

I think I will when I understand,

I feel like I understand
 him a lot better, 

because I had heard
 a lot from his words,

his quotes, and like, you know,
 what people have learned from him.

But I hadn't actually 

watched him write, which
 is a completely different thing.

And I feel like I clicked with a lot
 more than I expected to.

I clicked a lot more
 with the writing,

I think, than I expected to,
 because I think that is underrated

part of a lot of his stuff,

although north by northwest
 is probably a weaker example of that.

The that my favorites
 are definitely psycho

and Vertigo are just tremendous films

to me in a different category
 than the rest of the films I watched.

But even The Birds, The Birds is a
 sort of thriller or horror thing.

And it's I mean,
 I hope I forget to put the tail up

the bears theriault, as you can see,
 for those who you watching on video

or on podcast, this will be
 the episode Art. 

We've got a poor woman
 being attacked by birds.

This is this is the plot.
 This is what happens in this film.

Fairly simple concept. 

It's apparently based
 off of a book, although

my understanding is that it's
 I mean, it was inspired by a book.

The script is written
 based off the book. 

Then eventually it just,

um, the the actual
 relation to the book just collapsed.

And they just retain the name of
 the books in the script. It's funny.

It's an interesting film in the sense
 that it has a very simple concept

and it's trying to do a lot,
 technically speaking, for its time,

you know, in terms of special effects
 and all this other stuff.

And it seems like an experiment,
 a lot of different things,

one of which is the music of which

and this is our Bensley,
 pretty much of which there is none.

There is no music. 

Like when I say none, 

I mean, there's not a single
 note of music in this film.

And I think that
 was an egregious error. 

I think it was such a strange feeling
 I was watching, I was like.

It's just something the pace
 something is just,

you know, I realized
 there wasn't music, but I was like, 

but that can't just be
 the only reason that 

this just feels completely wrong. 

I've watched plenty of films 

with no music in it
 or a very sparse or spare music.

And, you know, those films
 feel like they're

they're designed to that way. Right. 

You know, maybe they still
 would have been better with music.

You can make the argument
 depending on the film. 

But, you know, largely speaking,

it still feels like
 the choice was more deliberate.

Whereas here it just feels
 kind of flippant, like for no reason.

He just decided not to put music
 in this film, whereas in the other

films, he has plenty
 and plenty of music.

So I found that strange.
 So I looked it up.

And I want to know why
 you didn't put music in.

Apparently, it's exactly what I said.
 It was an experiment.

You just want to know
 what would happen, 

which kind of goes into like this
 whole, you know, discussion about

experimenting and stuff like that,
 like, OK, that's interesting.

So he's trying to get samples like
 watch the movie without the music.

And this is not a
 good idea inside of music.

No, it's easy. They have music,
 but like maybe possible, you know.

So some people I notice in reviews,
 like I've noticed a few reviews

and letter box and a few analyzes
 elsewhere where people

will say that the lack of music
 makes it more creepy.

I don't know if I actually
 agree with that.

I mean, Alfred Hitchcock's
 like whole like thing is terror.

Right. Like this tension. 

And there's other films. 

There's plenty of music 

and there's plenty
 like plenty of tension, you know.

I mean, if you watch Psycho,
 that thing is like,

you know, for forever
 being what it is.

It's a kind of a white knuckle film.

You know, Vertigo has sections
 that are just, you know,

worse than worse in terms of tension

and how much you're being pulled
 sucked into the film

then, like, you know, a spy
 thriller or something.

It's just so intense. 

You know, it's bizarre because people
 will say this makes it feel creepy.

And I just don't see why. 

And I would like to understand better
 why people think

that I'm not dismissing it. 

I just want to understand why,
 because for me, it just felt empty.

And I think one of the 

biggest differences
 between this and other films

that have not as much music
 is this one soundscape in general

does not feel like it's
 telling a story like

not just the music,
 but the entire soundscape

doesn't feel like
 it's telling its own story.

You know, when you're
 when you're a filmmaker,

you're very multiport
 multidisciplinary.

So every tool you've got 

and even the act of choosing
 not to use the tool. Right.

Is an act of trying to tell a story.

And so I want all those decisions
 to feel deliberate.

You know, that's one of my critiques 

about like Marvel Marvel movies
 with their cinematography. Right.

It's very sterile and,
 you know, expository. Right.

It's effective for getting the gist
 of of for most films. Right.

The gist of the action. 

Right. It's not really
 it's not really as purposeful.

Well, most of that's because 

it's not even practical
 to make a Marvel movie that way.

I mean, it's already
 insanely bloated as it is.

I can't imagine trying to do
 some very creative shots

in the middle of the production
 schedule, which, you know, whatever,

that that's just the casualty
 in the Marvel franchise.

Elsewhere, though,
 you know, like, you know, in

the Hitchcock is cinematography
 is extremely deliberate,

is dialog extremely,
 extremely deliberate,

is a story structure
 extremely deliberate.

Everything super deliberate. 

Most of the time. 

And then with the birds, 

he just throws out the music
 and it just feels flippant.

Right. At least to me. 

So I would like to know
 any Hitchcock fans out there.

I would like to know. 

But in the comments
 or you can send us an email, 

mixed media podcast, that Outlook dot
 com or join our discord or wherever

and just tell me
 what you think about the birds,

because I think it actually has a
 more polarized reception than people

give it credit, because it's kind of
 in the Hitchcock canon,

because Hitchcock
 made a billion everyone films. 

But there are certain films
 that are like, you know,

Zio Hitchcock films,
 and The Birds is one of them.

And I'm not sure that it's actually

as universally loved in the way
 that his other films are loved,

just by reading reviews
 and like looking at what people say.

It seems as though people like this
 for its classic nature

more than they do for it's like,
 you know, like how it holds up.

You know, even today,
 it's like more of like

this is a interesting film
 in cinema's history. Right?

This kind of goes into 

like you're reading philosophy
 because some people include impact

into the wider, you know,
 to the wider field.

That's something
 that's important to them. 

When they you know, when they assess
 how much they like something. Right.

How much they want to praise it. 

And I can understand that
 because this film. Made in insanely.

I mean, when I say insanely,
 I mean probably immorally.

I mean, they literally had.

Tons of birds on

set trained to attack people.

They put food in people's hair
 and other parts of their clothing

so that the birds would attack
 the actors literally.

I mean, they were trained 

that they didn't hurt them,
 but people still got hurt,

is my understanding. 

So is this an insanely made film?

And a lot of those scenes 

with with the birds and the bird
 attacks are extraordinarily

has that Hitchcock tension over it
 for being such a simple concept.

You get some really, you know,
 jarring and exciting moments.

But I think I just was like,
 you know, overall,

I think the film
 was better than average 

and that kind of , you know, hate
 on the film or anything like that.

I don't hate it at all. 

It's more like I think 

this story could have been
 not just slightly above average.

I think it could have been up there
 with his average works.

Right. If there was music. 

And I think Bernard does his music
 for all of all of his like

big films or something like that. 

I think every film
 that I'm aware of of his big films.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think,
 you know, there's

I think when I was listening to when
 I was watching Psycho in particular,

I was noticing a lot more of that
 sort of like Mickey Mouse thing

that you're talking that you were
 talking about in prior episodes.

This is why I love this podcast. 

I learn things and then I apply them
 when I watch things.

So that's awesome.

It was good. It's still good. 

There's nothing wrong with it.
 You know, like it was excellent.

You know, not only excellent,
 but it filled the spaces

in a way that the film
 it told its own story .

The music told its own story
 alongside the story.

So, yeah, I just thought it was
 bizarre and I think it was

a failed experiment. 

I found, interestingly enough,
 I put a link on there, just scored

someone who attempted
 to score the film if it had a score.

And of course, this person didn't
 have an orchestra play their score

or anything like that.
 It's all electronic.

But if you imagine past that, 

you know, if you imagine what
 this person put together past them,

you know, I don't think it was like,
 you know, anything insane.

It just was better already
 just because it was there, you know,

and like these scenes were like 

the two main characters who have this
 like love tension thing going on.

This, you know, this will 

she won't she will
 he won't he kind of dynamic going on.

It's just so weird in those scenes
 where they're staring at each other

and you get these long cuts
 to just not hear anything.

That sounds like
 it comes from their hearts. 

It's a strange like it doesn't feel
 right and just strange to you because

it's such a such a strong love themes

in his other Hitchcock films.

Yeah. No, exactly. Very odd.

And you know, all you're hearing,
 she's paddling across the ocean

and all you're hearing
 is like the sparks, 

like the soundscape
 is not even fully developed, 

which I'm not even sure
 I can say that's a technical problem.

I just I just don't get it. Yeah.

But the whole soundscape
 is kind of sparse. 

So all you're hearing is like the
 kerplunk of her her or is go through.

She's looking across the the bay
 and he sees her man

or future man across the
 the the the bay.

And it's shot beautifully. 

The film looks gorgeous, like,
 you know, like the landscape,

at least the way it was reproduced in 

my copy was pretty freaking gorgeous.

It was very painterly. 

Part of that's because 

they actually use matte paintings
 for set extensions,

but it blends seamlessly. 

You know, you get these
 longing like close ups back and forth

and you're hearing
 just kerplunk, kerplunk, kerplunk.

It's just kind of takes
 you out of the the vibe.

If you could hear the
 the the the water moving

and maybe the Russel's of
 maybe if the soundscape could tell

the story better, even if you didn't
 want to use music. Right.

If the environment could tell you
 the story of their love

or their potential thing
 that's going on, there's

this tension there. Right. 

And at least that would help. 

But it's just kind
 of empty. It's like,

OK. And scenes that have no terror.

Right. The scenes literally
 just about this relationship.

Why on earth would
 you want to make it sparse?

I don't want to be creeped out 

in this moment deciding
 what is going for. Right.

So, yeah, it's kind of strange.

So anyway, that's my that's my topic.

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