Kickstarting your career through the power of networking and mentorship E70 (Alicia Lillington)

This episode we talk to Alicia Lillington, who works in change and communication. Upon receiving her bachelors in International Relations and Affairs at the ANU, Alicia found herself in a position that all thousands of graduates face every year. She had missed out on the Government graduate programs she had been applying to in her final year of study and had no prospects of full time employment in her industry. Despite this setback, however, Alicia remained resolute and used her networking prowess to procure herself a position in the private sector as a Communications Manager. The experience she garnered in this role then allowed her to enter the public service as a Communications Lead in the Department of Industry. Ironically, her superb performance in various government roles ultimately afforded her the ability to work at the very government agency that she had unsuccessfully applied to after graduating, the Department of Defence.

 

In addition to her professional accolades, Alicia also has a love of education that has seen her take on a mentoring position in the ANU’s MomentuM Program. Naturally, our guest spends a great deal of this episode talking about the importance of mentoring, and even imparts some valuable career advice that she would often share with her mentees. More specifically, Alicia delves into the topics of how young professionals should network in their industry and seek out opportunities to advance their career. Outside of this, Alicia also discusses her strong belief in the importance of workplace equality and how she is finding different avenues for women to enter male-dominated areas of public service. 

 

What we talk about

• The value of networking and the tools/events you can utilise to network effectively 
• Alternate paths into your desired industry
• How participating in mentorship programs can benefit you professionally
• Workplace inclusivity

Links from this episode

https://www.instagram.com/alicia__louise/ (Alicia on Instagram)

https://www.linkedin.com/in/alicialillington/  (Alicia on LinkedIn)

https://www.cbe.anu.edu.au/study/cbe-momentum-program/ (ANU’s MomentuM program)

Find us elsewhere

https://futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe Website)

https://www.instagram.com/futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe on Instagram)

https://www.linkedin.com/in/germainemuller/ (Germaine on LinkedIn)

https://www.instagram.com/germa_ne/ (Germaine on Instagram)

https://futuretheory.com.au/ (Futuretheory Website)

 

Transcript 

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated automatically and as such, may contain various spelling and syntax errors

 

Germaine: [00:00:00] Hello, Future Tribe. Welcome to another episode on this week's episode, I've got Alicia Lillington with me. How are you Alicia? 
[00:00:59] Alicia: [00:00:59] Good. Thank you.
[00:01:00] Good. Um, we're, we're both sort of coming off the back of, uh, some, some sort of health issues, very minor, but some sort of health issues. I love that when we're chatting about it, you, you sort of mentioned that you do a lot, and even when you were sick, you were just, just, you know, at 50%, but it's probably still 50% for you is sort of quite high amount of work and output compared to, to other people.
[00:01:23] Um, Tell me a bit, a bit about yourself and I guess your, your approach to everything that you do, because I know you wear a few hats and 
[00:01:30] yeah, for sure. Germaine so, yes. Um, thank you so much for having me today. Firstly, um, I guess I've worked full time for government as an advisor in the change and communications space, um, kind of where culture and technology meet and then part-time, I love kind of singing, acting, modeling, and mentoring.
[00:01:49] So I think it's so important to be kind of that role model for younger people. I think of myself. When I was, you know, at uni or just graduating and I just thought, what am I going to do? And particularly in 2020, um, you know, it's been a bit of a tumultuous year and I think a lot of people are unsure of what to do next.
[00:02:07] So I really like to mentor it and just. They that person, particularly as a female in the tech space that kind of, um, can lead the way for people. And then with my modeling and things like that, that I just do as a hobby, I like to share, um, messages around body positivity and pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone.
[00:02:26] Like I'll try and use it. Sport or something like that. And I just do silly little videos, but I get a lot of feedback from it. And I was initially quite reserved and didn't want to share much, but I found that when I would share, you know, trying, um, you know, skiing for the first time or something like that, um, people reached out and said, Oh, that's like inspired me to try something new.
[00:02:45] So that's kind of in a nutshell. I mean, dude, what's. Yeah, as you said, lots of different hats, lots of different things, then that's trying to keep it brief. 
[00:02:52] Germaine: [00:02:52] See you in a nutshell, because I met you through modeling cause I do photography. Um, but then I got really hooked into and we really ended up chatting, um, a bit about work and that side of things.
[00:03:04] So I guess, I guess we connect on, I guess, both sides of creativity and more of a hobby or something that we, we don't necessarily earn a huge living from, but they're also the other side of, uh, you know, Actual work, if you can call it that. So tell me a little bit about how you got into what you do in terms of your work.
[00:03:23] Alicia: [00:03:23] Yeah. Okay. It's a long story. I'll try and yeah. Explain it really well. Okay. So at university studied international relations. When I graduated, it was like around 2013 from university and, um, the job market was really, really rough. Um, so then I thought, what can I do? What's a career that you always have a job in.
[00:03:42] So then I kind of went in and did the graduate degree. Diploma of education. I thought if I'm a teacher and cause I love that mentoring, tutoring, that type of thing, you know, I thought I'll always have a job in that space. So international relations education then from there, um, I went back to teach at my high school and I love my high school.
[00:03:58] I love teaching, but I just thought, Oh, there's a little bit more to the world. I just was like, I've, I've been here a lot. I need to go out and feather a field, have a bit more life experience and maybe come back as one of those. Cool, like older relief teachers, you know, the ones that just come in a relief teacher and like sing or something.
[00:04:14] I'd love to see that one day. I also kind of thought I was like, Oh, I could be like Chris Lilly, a drama teacher doing, um, Mr. G and you know, sort of doing performances for the kids, but that wasn't quite what it was like in reality. Anyway, from there, I really did want to get involved in international relations and I was.
[00:04:31] Researching the market. I was looking at embassies. I was looking at foreign affairs and I found this place in Canberra called the Commonwealth club, which is a members based club. Um, I reached out through LinkedIn at the time. I think it was about 2016, 2015, or no, it was actually 2014. And, um, I, so LinkedIn was quite new and you could kind of reach out to people at that time.
[00:04:52] Um, and it wasn't, it wasn't a bombarding of all these messages. It was only a few people on there. So I reached out to this general manager at the Commonwealth club and I said, Hey, I'd really like to work for you. Um, I've just, um, you know, you've got two degrees and I I'm interested in international relations.
[00:05:06] I understand you have. Quite a lot to do with that space. Um, and he invited me to be a waitress, which I am the most clumsy kind of Mr. Bean type waitress you've ever met. I have tried it actually at someone's wedding. Um, I was there, wait, no, it was not, it was not my best career. I always give things a try, but I would kind of was falling over dropping flights.
[00:05:29] Germaine: [00:05:29] And how people like wait staff so much respect. Cause you've got to deal with all these people deal with their food. So people get really grumpy about it. And then on top of that, you've got to balance stuff. So yeah. I mean, I wouldn't even try it so kudos to you to actually actually like try it in the first place.
[00:05:45] Alicia: [00:05:45] Yeah, I know. And yeah. Shout out to all the hospitality people out there. It's actually not that easy and you know, some. Um, Hey, we'll convey quiet, um, entitled even about a latte or a drink. And, um, I definitely think of that when I go to restaurants and I th I think it's kind of, you know, influenced the way that I am as a customer as well, working in customer service for a number of years.
[00:06:04] Um, but yes, so like, I was kind of doing all of that and, and he kept saying, you know, yeah, you can be a waitress. And then I waited a little while I thought I'll reach out again and just see if anything's come up. And then, you know, again, just, he was offering waitressing. I kind of forgot about it was applying for a few different roles.
[00:06:19] Um, kind of it. And this is in the not-for-profit 
[00:06:22] Germaine: [00:06:22] sector 
[00:06:24] Alicia: [00:06:24] or, um, I was tutoring, so I was a private tutor. Yeah. Yeah. 
[00:06:28] Germaine: [00:06:28] But not sort of any full-time employment at the point. And at this point, and you were sort of looking for that. 
[00:06:34] Alicia: [00:06:34] Yeah, it was my first kind of, you know, flagship full-time job. And I think, you know, maybe for a lot of the listeners or people out there in the market today, you know, when you take that step into your first.
[00:06:44] Your first full-time role, it's quite daunting. And it's a transition from your kind of supplementary roles that you might've done during university, or you might've had, you know, kind of customer service roles or things like that. But you, you really want to focus on a particular career path and it's hard to get, because they're always saying, Oh, three years experience.
[00:07:01] And you're like, well, how am I supposed to get the experience at the start? So I definitely resonate with that and paper starting out. Um, and then I was kind of doing my thing, applying. I sort of ended up having these. Job tracker, which I've shared before on LinkedIn, which was a little notebook. And I wrote down, um, it was suggested by a friend of mine, write down every role you apply for and take a more analytical approach and write what the outcome was and any feedback you get.
[00:07:27] And, um, it took the emotion out of that job search a little bit more, um, And then eventually I was just minding my own business. I got a message from, um, the general manager and he said, how are you with communications? And I had never thought of communications as a career. I love public speaking. I love writing creative, writing all of those things, but I had never thought of it as a particular subject.
[00:07:48] So, um, Yeah, I went in for the interview. Um, I had a bit of a interesting story that day as well, where, um, I, I finally got the interview at the place I really wanted to work. My dog was at the dog groomer and the dog groomer called me crying. Um, and this is my dream interview day and it was a really, really hot day.
[00:08:06] I remember it was 31st of October. It was Halloween. I was like, Oh, is this like a Halloween prank? And it was. You know, probably like one of those hot Canberra days. So 30 degrees, 30 to 35 degrees. And I was in my new suit that I'd purchased for the 
[00:08:20] Germaine: [00:08:20] streets. So 
[00:08:22] Alicia: [00:08:22] yeah. You know, the makeup Germaine, my hair, you know, everything and I was ready hours in advance and, um, the, yeah, so the dog grimmer called me crying and yeah.
[00:08:34] Actually your dog has run away from the dog groom like an hour or so before the interview. Um, and I was like calling the, uh, I think it was two hours actually. I called code up the general manager and I said, highlight, can I reschedule? And he said, look, if you want this role, you have to come stay organized.
[00:08:52] Yeah, we've organized board members to be here and everything like that. So we can't reschedule. So I was running around Belconnen I'm in Canberra and I was looking for my dog and calling out. And anyway, I went to the interview and I think the message from the SS, I went to the interview. I perform to my best.
[00:09:08] It was my dream role. I'd practiced. Um, I knew all my selection, criteria, everything like that. Um, and they called me up a couple of hours later and offered me the role. My dog, a lovely, good scenario person showed up on a Facebook group, had found him and took him to the pound and it was always well, anyway, that's a story about my first job and how I got into communications.
[00:09:29] And then from there I was trying to get into the public service. So I worked in the private sector for two years, um, and had an amazing experience working there at the Commonwealth club. And then, um, yeah, it was applying. That was a full-time role. Yeah. 
[00:09:43] Germaine: [00:09:43] Yeah. In that role. 
[00:09:45] Alicia: [00:09:45] So I got to kind of do a change management process where they had very traditional kind of paper-based newsletters.
[00:09:51] Their demographic varies a little older, um, probably 70 plus is their main demographic there. Um, and they're very traditional. Um, they like things to be very formal when people enter that club. It's very much, sir, Madam and I learnt new titles like Brigadier or commander or all those types of things, 
[00:10:08] Germaine: [00:10:08] I guess.
[00:10:09] different type of clientele, um, 
[00:10:12] Alicia: [00:10:12] to an 
[00:10:13] Germaine: [00:10:13] average person. 
[00:10:15] Alicia: [00:10:15] Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, and so, yeah, so I, I kind of had to learn communications in tailoring by, um, key, um, ma key stakeholders and things like that. So yeah, I revamped it. I gave a, um, I started, uh, an online bulletin as well as the paper base. So we kind of did that transition, but we had both available for them and.
[00:10:35] Leading to things like digital messaging, digital boards, and also trying to increase the younger membership. So I got to kind of host events with people at captain of the wallabies and, um, have round table conversations and fireside chats. And, um, you know, I noticed as a result of those communications, we had a lot of interest, um, from younger people coming through.
[00:10:55] Um, so, so that was a really, really good role. And then from there, yeah, I had just was that kind of Canberra girl that everyone had always said. Getting to the public service. Um, that's, you know, you'll be so great there. 
[00:11:09] Germaine: [00:11:09] So then you were in the, in the, in the private sector, sort of doing it, doing what sounds like a pretty fun role, a role that, you know, you, you really fought for.
[00:11:17] Um, sounds like you were sort of persistent. Um, and then, and then you thinking let's get into the public service. Um, W, why do you think you wanted to do that at the time? Not, not that I've got anything against the public service, but you know, one would think that, you know, you have a fun role you're you're in the private sector, you know, possibly more, more monies or more freedoms between when it comes to marketing.
[00:11:39] There's, you know, like possibly a bit more freedom to, to sort of spend money on, on advertising campaigns or whatever, whatever it may be. So why do you think you were sort of looking at getting into the public service then? 
[00:11:52] Alicia: [00:11:52] Yeah, definitely. So in that context, it was a very small comms team. It was only myself and there was no room to kind of progress.
[00:12:00] I am very ambitious, which sometimes is not being seen as a good thing throughout my career, but I've learned to embrace it now and, and leverage it and, um, sort of talk about it in different ways. I think it's more about what can I contribute and. Um, I I'm a very dynamic go getter person. And I think if I'm in a role where I'm not able to be dynamic and all of these things, I'll just feel quite flat and kind of that, um, that role was a little bit cyclical.
[00:12:24] So, you know, you had your 12 months, you had your things that came around. So, you know, you had your big Christmas event and I just thought, yeah, I want to contribute to something. Bigger. And I think we really need passionate, excited people in the public service. So that's why I was keen to get involved.
[00:12:39] Germaine: [00:12:39] So you wanted to sort of almost, um, be the, the anti-public service public service person in that you want to come in and sort of, rather than just, you know, just doing what sort of falls me a plate BB, that sort of, um, look for new new opportunities and explore, explore that because, um, You know, it's just not something that the public servers are necessarily known for.
[00:13:01] And that's not to say that there aren't interesting dynamic, exciting, passionate people in the public service. It's just not sort of the name that's built out, um, or, or what the general public sort of perceives the public service to be 
[00:13:16] Alicia: [00:13:16] Iraq. Yeah, that's right. And I think that kind of like a perception that I like to bust and I think.
[00:13:21] Um, as well, I was looking at initially as being like permanent and all those types of things, but I actually ended up coming in as a contractor. Um, and I think that's something that a lot of people are scared to do. So I came in on a six month contract and I've actually been a contractor over the last four years.
[00:13:36] So people always say to me, how can you be a contractor? Like, what if your role runs out? Don't you want to have maternity leave? Don't you want to have, you know, permanency and sick leave and all of these things. But I think there's great roles in contracting. Um, and. Yeah, they're out there for people to, to take an embrace.
[00:13:53] Germaine: [00:13:53] Yeah. I think you can also get hung up a little bit on, you know, is it full-time, is it part-time, are you casual a contractor? The way I see it? Yes. That changes sort of, you know, how much you might get paid, whether you get paid holidays and things like that. But the reality is that you should be focusing on your focus on the wrong thing.
[00:14:11] If you're focusing on, on, you know, what, what. Sort of your legal state of employment is, um, when in reality you should be focusing on what you can put in and what you can do. It doesn't, it shouldn't matter whether they are a contractor or a casual, like, I think back to my sort of work history. And there were times where, you know, I actually realized that I was getting screwed over because I was classed as one thing, because that was financially beneficial to the organization that I worked for.
[00:14:35] Um, but in reality, you know, In the legal definition of things. I was actually another thing that meant that I got paid holidays, but at the time I didn't because I was classed as a casual, for example. Um, but you know, you shouldn't, I don't think you should get hung up on that. Um, and that's not a matter of, you know, Oh, you know, if it's desperate of the job, market's really, really inundated.
[00:14:56] You shouldn't worry about those things. I just think in general or, um, those, those, those things you can account for like maternity leave, you can always. Save up and I'm not saying, Oh, you know, money's nothing, you just save up more money. Like, it's that simple, but you can sort of build out a lifestyle where you account for those things, rather than necessarily focusing on the legal structure of your employment and what sort of leave you get like.
[00:15:20] In reality as well. Like you've got to have a passion for your job, um, as such that it shouldn't really matter how much paid leave you get or holidays you get, because you should be so excited about what you do. And, 
[00:15:31] Alicia: [00:15:31] you know, as long as you have room to 
[00:15:33] Germaine: [00:15:33] take holidays, like. Yeah. W w why, why should you sort of think about that too much and quickly to talk about the fact that, you know, you felt like, you know, the move was because you were sort of outgrowing, um, your, your role.
[00:15:46] I just want to jump into that really quickly, because I talked to a lot of people who work in sort of the marketing communications space, especially in that sort of market where. Organizations really need to reach sort of a certain revenue or a certain size to be able to hire someone full time just for their marketing, because it tends to be something that an admin person sort of takes on, you know, like put up a few posts on Facebook, put together a MailChimp news that are.
[00:16:10] So, you know, the way I see it, like jumping into that sort of role in, uh, in, uh, organizing that hasn't had that before or in an organization that has, that had a different version of that before is a good opportunity to sort of practice your skills. I don't think you should necessarily look for a five day a week at, you know, the biggest marketing agency sort of sort of position.
[00:16:32] Um, but you take something that, that sort of works for you, and then you can make it. To an extent what you want it to be as well. Um, the catch being that, you know, I was in a similar position to you where I went in, you know, we had thousands of people receiving, uh, physical news that are moved into digital.
[00:16:48] And then, but eventually it sort of felt like I was just in this box and I was just bouncing around trying to get out of it. Um, and that's actually what pushed me to just go full-time and start my own business. Like go full-time into my business because similar to you. It was just a matter of like, I've got so much energy, I've got so much that I want to do.
[00:17:07] But I can't do it. And I guess when you go to the public service and you're a contractor, I'd actually argue that that actually means that you even have more freedom than if you were an employer employee, whether you were full-time or not. Because as a contractor, that relationship is a little bit different.
[00:17:22] Anyway, you're sort of working for them, but there's a contract in place that sort of stipulates that rather than, you know, you work for us. You know, we, we own you. Yeah. 
[00:17:33] Alicia: [00:17:33] It's definitely, you're there for a, um, definitive amount of time and you're there to deliver something. And I think as well, that's kind of where I transitioned in all the opportunities that that led to from that moment, if I wouldn't have tried and taken a risk and I took several risks on different contracts after that.
[00:17:49] So starting out. Um, the first role I had was at IP Australia, um, as a contractor and I was working in communications and, um, my director was kind of the head of strategic change management. And that's where I really learned the, the kind of one Oh one stuff about change management. And I was like, Oh, this is quite interesting.
[00:18:08] And aligns a lot. We've communications. It's not the same thing, but I can see a lot of synergies there that I'd like to be involved in. And it is that stakeholder relationship and kind of, yeah. Enterprise change management. Um, and then from there kind of. You know, you're taking a leap, um, to go and work at the Australian Bureau of statistics.
[00:18:26] Um, and from there going to department of human services, as it was known at the time. Um, and, and, you know, I think there's a lot of, kind of, um, different perceptions about different departments, but I've loved every opportunity. I've seen merit and. And grown from each department. And from there, I went to my dream role.
[00:18:46] I actually got into foreign affairs where I was in it, um, kind of an executive level one, um, contracts level where I couldn't get in, when I'd graduated, I couldn't get into the grad program. And then I was these kind of AOL one and I was managing the grads and the grads head. PhDs, they had, um, you know, experience internationally, but I was working in the it space.
[00:19:07] Um, and I did a piece around women in tech and looking at how do we have diversity in tech and, and that kind of sparked that interest, which has lasted with me. So, you know, through over the journey, I kind of picked up communications, I think. So change management and then the women in tech piece. And even at IP Australia, I was working on a program for the engineers and looking at women in STEM there, um, and doing partnerships with LinkedIn.
[00:19:32] Um, and yeah, and now I have a really struggling scene presence. So I got to kind of do that from it. Yeah. Organization or perspective in looking at how we attract. Females in that space. And then from there, um, working at, um, sort of prime minister and cabinet on a whole of government, um, rollout, um, of an ICT system as the change manager and, you know, two 40 government agencies.
[00:19:53] And because I'd had those little portfolio, um, Examples and experience that actually, um, led really well into that role. And now working at department of finance, I'm working for the shared services area, which is amazing. And I'm rolling out again. I've just rolled out an I T system to, um, seven different departments and agencies across government, which I've enjoyed so much because I've learned from H um, H role.
[00:20:17] And you kind of, I like to think of like a toolkit and you kind of add little. Tips and tricks along the way. Um, you learn how to make communications scalable. And I think looking back to my first role, I had to really make it scalable because I was the only person there. And then, um, you know, how do you create an infographic, for example, that can be tailored across 40 government agencies.
[00:20:38] How can you work with SMEs in each organization to tailor their messaging as well? Um, and how do you kind of build an Alliance of change colleagues across the whole, um, Australian public service, um, and. Also, I think there's a bit of a myth. Oh, change management. That's kind of the CEO, when the change manager, they all drive the change, but really it's kind of embedding and getting everyone excited about a new system or a new process.
[00:21:01] And, um, when I go and facilitate round tables and things like that, people always mentioned change fatigue and just like, yes. Okay. Well, how do we change that? 
[00:21:11] Germaine: [00:21:11] Well, and that's where sort of the communication side of things come in, right. Because really, um, Communications is in everything that we do. Um, no matter what, you know, from when, how you say hello to someone, to how you email someone.
[00:21:27] Um, so using those skills to manage change is really important because like you said, you can't have, if, if there's two people out of a hundred, Person even organization trying to drive change. Um, that's not really that, that that's just, you know, trying to force change. That's not trying to drive change.
[00:21:44] You need sort of a, a movement to happen. And, and that requires like, um, up-skilling listening to people, having these discussions, having these conversations so that, um, so that, you know, W when you're moving, especially with technology, like for some of these, some of these projects, I'm sure it was like jumping from one sort of approach to technology, to another approach that requires there's so much change within their, just what they're used to.
[00:22:10] Um, and I guess the full spectrum of ages as well. So people who, you know, were completely comfortable in any sort of technology, um, all the way to people who just. You know, we weren't really used to a whole lot of technology, so you would have to have to deal with that. But, um, what, what was it like sort of jumping from, or even at the moment, so you basically sort of looked for an upcoming contract and then apply for it and then engage on that contract.
[00:22:36] Is that sort of how you work? 
[00:22:38] Alicia: [00:22:38] Yeah, that's right. And I'll, I'll note as well for the listeners as well. Jermaine, if there's anyone thinking about getting into contracting or starting out, and you're just looking for roles for me, it's been very much like a push and pull approach. So when I started out looking for roles and when I was new in the market, like people always tell me now, Oh, we know you we've seen you on this or that.
[00:22:57] And, you know, because of my various activities, but at the start, I didn't really know anyone. And I had to go and chase the opportunities I had to, you know, use things like seek or LinkedIn or, um, there's a lovely way. Site called ethical jobs as well. And, or even, yeah, just finding opportunities, having conversations with people and really seeking those opportunities.
[00:23:15] But eventually now I do get people sort of coming to me and I feel very flattered and lucky and they say, Oh, we know you've done X, Y, and Zed. So yeah. That's what can come when you are a really dynamic person and you put yourself out there and you reach out to people in the outset. Um, but yeah, so I do, I do contracting, um, I am through an agency at the moment.
[00:23:36] Um, I love the agency and they kind of, you know, place me in different roles depending they'll go into the digital marketplace, um, and look for opportunities there. And then we'll put together a tender submission and I'm part of that. So yeah. Yeah, 
[00:23:51] Germaine: [00:23:51] that's quite a unique sort of way to where to operate, I guess.
[00:23:54] Um, you know, to talk to that point of, um, you just got to put yourself out there and you've got to, like, you just got to knock, knock on those doors at the very least. And I was chatting to someone, um, just last week, uh, about this and the way I put it was, you know, you need to keep up. Trying and you need to keep applying and doing all that.
[00:24:14] Then I think you also got to remember to, you know, have your, like your, um, side hustle that sort of keeps the money coming in so that you don't cause you don't never want to find yourself in a position where you're desperate. Like, and they just want to knock. Knock down the door, you know, you want to knock on the door, not knock down the door.
[00:24:30] You don't want to, you can't, you can never force yourself into, into a job. And no matter how many times you ask to, you know, meet the, um, meet the head of HR or whatever. Um, so it's important to sort of have a balance there. I think of keep trying, but don't make sure that the reality is the financial pressures of life.
[00:24:50] Aren't sort of bundled in in that, because then it gets very emotional and it just gets. Gets too messy. Um, 
[00:24:57] Alicia: [00:24:57] would 
[00:24:57] Germaine: [00:24:57] you agree with that? 
[00:24:59] Alicia: [00:24:59] I have a couple of things to mention there. I think when you're starting out, don't be too precious about the role that you go for. I think some of the mentees and students I work with, they say, Oh, I want to make the CEO.
[00:25:10] And I want to be, you know, a senior manager first role, 
[00:25:14] Germaine: [00:25:14] or even something like, you know, marketing manager, like, or, you know, I want to handle all of the social, social media. And all I can say to that is you never had a roll past, you know, what you worked at uni and you've got a degree in you think like, really?
[00:25:29] And, and, and I don't know if this will help any, anyone listening, but getting a role like that is, is like getting your dream car, right? Like getting a dream job is not something that you should just be given. It's not something that's easy. Like you don't just buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini that that never happens.
[00:25:47] So why would you think that, you know, you can go from. Getting a degree and no experience to becoming head of head of marketing or something like that. Um, and that's not to say that there aren't people who are skilled, it's just think about the, the real, the, the size and the, and the, and the, you know, impact of what you're trying to do and thinking that you can do and just.
[00:26:08] Just take baby steps, like take up a role that that's sort of, you know, seems right. Um, but isn't necessarily like it's a stepping stone on your, on your path. Um, and you don't have to just jump to the, to the big rock at the end. 
[00:26:22] Alicia: [00:26:22] Yeah, that's right. And I mean, I started working when I was 14. I remember going, and my first role was, um, Baker's delight and I used to work.
[00:26:29] I wanted to go on in Italy trip and I was earning $6 50 an hour. Um, and the trip was like, A few grants. So I had to really, really save that up. And I had that kind of hard work instilled in me from a young age. Um, and yeah, I remember going in, rocking up when I was like 13 or so and saying, Hey, can I work here?
[00:26:45] Um, and they were sort of like, come back when you're 14 or whatever, but I remember everything I learned at Baker's slight, like when you're not busy sweep the floor, always in customer service and dealing with people and you know, they're buying a 60 cent bun, but they want the best service and yeah.
[00:26:59] That really set me up for success. And I think there's other things people can do as well. So maybe you can, you know, I'm part of, um, the United nations Australia, um, Canberra international women's day committee for 2021. And for example, with that, um, you know, I've been doing this socials and things and we can see the analytics really growing and doubling and things like that.
[00:27:19] So why not get involved in kind of, you know, donate your time to get some of that experience? I think you have to put things out there as well. Um, and, and I've done it before as well. I'm like, okay, I'm here. I'm great. I'm ready for my role, but what can you give, um, your time to, and how can you demonstrate that?
[00:27:35] And then those opportunities will flow back to you eventually as well, I think. Um, and yeah, and I think, you know, when you're starting out, maybe you do just take a customer service role in the meantime, while you're at, to supplement your income while you're finding those streams. I'm like still applying and everything like 
[00:27:51] Germaine: [00:27:51] that and keep that up and, you know, keep like, give, give yourself sort of, um, sake projects to work on, build out a portfolio.
[00:27:59] Obviously it depends on sort of what sort of work you're looking to do, but, um, get active on platforms like LinkedIn. I know it's getting pretty flooded and pretty, pretty busy on LinkedIn now, but, um, chances are in the next few years, there's going to be another platform. You know, coming up and, um, if you get in early, um, like, like I did with LinkedIn, um, all those years ago, and it sounds like you did as well.
[00:28:22] Um, you, you just got to sort of basically make your own luck and keep pushing, pushing that, um, and just keep working away at it. Like, I love the mention of, you know, Baker's devices. If there's nothing else to do sweep the floors. It's, it's sort of that concept of like, if you feel like you didn't have anything to do, you should have probably a list of things that you can turn back to and go, okay, I don't have anything to do.
[00:28:44] And it's definitely on Netflix. Just look through the list and find something else that you can do, like, you know, put up a post on LinkedIn or work, work on a logo for X, X company that, that, you know, re redesigned McDonald's logo. Like. It's the stuff that, you know, other like your employers would look for.
[00:29:02] Um, and then you can throw in and sort of say, you know, this is just a personal project that I worked on and it shows that you, where you want to explore you, you're dynamic, you're you really, you know, make yourself busy if you, if you're, if you don't have any other work and that's often an asset as well.
[00:29:18] Alicia: [00:29:18] Yeah. Definitely is your point of difference. Um, and I think, yeah, there's just so much that. That you can do, and you can share your story as well. Cause sometimes I think, Oh, no one needs to see another work post or another post about this or that. But you know, sometimes, um, yeah, I've had all kinds of things happen at work and I've shared my story and it is those people that, you know, reach out and say, Oh, this resonated with me now I'm going to share it.
[00:29:41] I have mentees and students as well that I encourage put your elevator pitch. If you're starting out, put your little, you know, a video of yourself talking about, um, what you do and put that on LinkedIn and things like that. 
[00:29:53] Germaine: [00:29:53] Great, good then a little bit further as well. Like with the mention of video, I think it's very easy for someone to say.
[00:29:57] Just type something out, um, or even take a photo, but to get in front of a camera and actually talk, um, which doesn't sound like a huge, huge task or a huge, huge thing to do for a potential employer. I think at the very least it shows that, you know, You're you're happy to hop on and you're confident enough that you can actually talk in front of a camera because people freeze and, you know, you can't really edit video the, the same way that you can like text.
[00:30:23] So, um, I think it shows a level of, um, capability as well. When you do that.
[00:31:13] Now you've mentioned mentoring a fair bit during our conversations. Tell me a little bit more about that and how you got into mentoring and what that sort of looks like for you. 
[00:31:24] Alicia: [00:31:24] Yeah, absolutely. So I guess I was always interested in mentoring and everything like that. So, you know, at school I was always a peer mentor.
[00:31:32] Um, it started from a young age, um, and. You know, after school and things like that, I just kind of, I wanted to be a teacher and I just had that within me. I just had that passion to help people. And I actually, when I was 19, I had my own acting school, um, which is not something I've talked about recently, but I really wanted to explore that and do that and instill confidence in younger people.
[00:31:53] Because I, when I studied drama, I used to be a really shy kid, actually. And then I did some things in drama. I was selected to be Mary. I went to a Catholic school and I was like to be married in the school play. And that was. It's life-changing someone to recognize you and say, Hey, I want you to be, um, this character and all the things you learned from drama, um, have really helped me a lot.
[00:32:13] So I think it's actually, you know, drama has helped me, um, be that kind of presenter and facilitator. Um, and, and they really interested in, in helping others. So at the moment, what I mentoring is I'm mentoring a program with the ANU called momentum, um, managed by the college of business and economics.
[00:32:30] That's the formal programs. Um, and then just kind of informally. I do get a lot of people messaging me on LinkedIn, just asking for tips and tricks. And, um, I've actually set up a networking event coming up in the next couple of weeks for all the students and mentees I've met throughout the year, because it's been a virtual environment.
[00:32:48] They haven't had the opportunity to make face to face and network and practice that. So. It's going to get together at a local bar and just kind of meet and practice and say, hi, my name is Alicia. Um, you know, and this is what I do. I, I also tell people they always are scared of networking, a lot of the mentees.
[00:33:05] So I just say, you know, just actually go up and say, Hey, how are you? That's how you start. Because I think sometimes they want to jump straight into their elevator pitch. I'm 
[00:33:16] Germaine: [00:33:16] sorry to cut you off, but, um, I it's hilarious to me because I, I agree. Like, I think people just forget that you're, you're still talking to a human, um, and there's still sort of an order of, um, of sort of, you know, disclosing your personal information, which is effectively what you're doing.
[00:33:35] Like, um, I want to know your name first. I want to know even what your. Into, not just what you're looking for in terms of employment. Um, and, and, you know, just take, take that time. Like at the end of the day, especially in these sorts of environments, there aren't really time pressures. It's not like, you know, you have 30 seconds and you've just, you know, everything is a, has to be condensed within 30 seconds and that's it.
[00:33:57] You can, you can sort of get to know someone, have a chat with them, get to know them as well. Don't just blurt out all about you to them. Um, sort of make sure it's a balanced conversation. 
[00:34:08] Alicia: [00:34:08] Absolutely. And just have a conversation. Like I use the example of, you know, it's a networking event. What would I do?
[00:34:13] And I, you know, you just go up to the buffet and or if there's like food or drink parents just say, Oh, this is a nice meat pie. That's an example that I would say like, Oh, what are you eating today? Or, um, what brings you here today? Those kinds of open-ended questions, just having a chat with a real human, and then you can go from there and they, and, you know, connect with them on LinkedIn.
[00:34:31] Or do you have LinkedIn? I'd love to find out more about what you do, kind of an invitation to find out about them. But I think, you know, mentoring, I've got mentors as well. So I think I used to think, Oh, once you're a mentor, you know, that's, that's it, that actually I've noticed that. Um, so, um, my mentee mentor someone, um, who's like kind of a first year uni student and then that person mentors people from their school to go to university.
[00:34:56] And then for me, I have a mentor and they have a mentor. So it's kind of, it's actually not just. Um, you know, two people in the mentoring process, there's multiple layers of mentors and mentees. Um, and anyone can be a mentor or a mentee. Um, and I learned a lot from kind of the students coming through, particularly about social media, things like Tik TOK, of course, um, and you know, reels on Instagram, all these things that are coming through that I'm not native to.
[00:35:24] Um, they can really teach me about those things and. The perspective of younger people as well. I've noticed a real shift in the mentality of the younger generation. I think it's really exciting to look at things like, um, being ethical and, you know, the environment and, and, and these body positive things.
[00:35:41] I've seen that really coming through in that those are themes that I think when I was, you know, um, their age, it, it just wasn't as much of a thing. Um, which I think is really good to have that kind of consciousness as well. 
[00:35:53] Germaine: [00:35:53] Yeah. And I think, you know, you make a good point because I, I too have sort of just thought as mentoring as this, you know, um, very much step down, step down, sort of, um, one person passing stuff onto the next person.
[00:36:05] So it's sort of an arrow down sort of message. Um, but in reality, it's sort of a two way, um, whether it's communication or two way sort of explanation of things. And it helps, like, I, I definitely found that even with. Sort of, um, our younger staff that I'm chatting with them and they go, Oh, Facebook's been doing that for a long time.
[00:36:23] And I'm like, what you, what do you mean? I use Facebook every day. Um, I didn't know that that was a feature. I didn't know that that was a function because different generations and different people use these things differently. And it's important to keep that conversation open because otherwise you just get, you just get, you know, ended up, um, sort of, um, uninformed or even worse disenfranchised about something or misinformed about something.
[00:36:45] So, um, That's awesome. Now, before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you one more question about, um, you're talking about women in tech, um, and, and I guess sort of how that all, all comes in together as someone who's really passionate about tech, I know that there are the sister real lack of women in tech. Um, why do you think that that is, is a fact like, I mean, you know, I, I feel like a lot of guys are into tech in the first place.
[00:37:15] Um, sort of that classic, you know, geek sitting, sitting, eating like Cheezel's or Cheetos and, you know, just gaming all day. Um, but then, you know, to my surprise, like I, I started playing PlayStation with my partner and she got really hooked into it. And I was like, hold on, like I know gamey girls are thinking, I'm not sort of, I'm not saying that girls don't game, but yeah.
[00:37:36] Yeah. Is it, is it really just a matter of like all or part of it, do you think is that they just don't get exposed to things in the same way with the same sort of encouragement and push, um, from school and from parents and from society, do you think that's a huge factor there? 
[00:37:51] Alicia: [00:37:51] Absolutely. I think it starts at such a young age.
[00:37:54] So on a lot of the projects I've worked on, it's like, okay, we've, um, you know, we've got all these roles and we want more, like, we've got a department, we've got great people, but we actually have more roles to fill in. How do we encourage people from the department to come. Maybe should the tech space and what we were talking about before, in terms of, you know, these new platforms, it's actually not about the particular platform.
[00:38:13] It's about the mentality towards it and being kind of, um, receptive to learning new things, but with, um, and say, and so people always say to me, I'm not a tech person. I don't like tech and particularly. Women or I'm not, I'm not savvy. I don't know how to do that. Things like that. Some tips always restart your computer, always try different browsers, always clear your case.
[00:38:36] If you can do those things, you know, that's it one Oh one, right. Um, and looking at things like HTML, it's actually quite creative and exciting press go to a website and press the F five button. Um, and I think we have to reframe the way we think about tech. So I'll tell you. What I think our next steps are, but I'll take it back to where it comes from.
[00:38:57] And I think it's that school, I think it's, it starts from a very young age. So even, you know, five years old, that's when we need girls to start, um, getting involved in, interested in tech, get them to play with a robot and encouraged them. So a lot of research and data shows that, you know, we tell girls, Oh, you're beautiful, but we don't say.
[00:39:15] You're really intelligent. I really like your curious mind. Um, and it's the way that we talk to these younger generations. That's going to have a big impact. Um, it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, like a blue toy and a pink toy. I think those things are totally changing, but I also think that the curriculums are being written by a male dominated.
[00:39:35] Cohort. So when things are inherently written by those people and, you know, computer games and, and I'm a, I'm definitely a gamer girl myself. When those games, they are written mostly by that audience, it's not as appealing. So we need more females to right. Those games and to, to code them and learn these things.
[00:39:54] And there's a real space for women in that area. And I think, you know, my even marketing, coding and marketing these things to girls at schools, we need really great teachers who encourage, um, girls to be involved and show the value. So what is the value of having girls involved in tech? So. A lot of, um, technology is inherently biased.
[00:40:17] So from the moment you walk into a shopping center. Yeah, 
[00:40:21] Germaine: [00:40:21] I didn't, I didn't sorry. I'm just, it's just dawning on me now because a lot of people are into FIFA. Right. And they tend to be guys and it tends to be this question of like, Oh, I don't understand why, like guys and to FIFA, it's just, it's boring.
[00:40:35] But if it's coded by men with sort of, I mean, cause at some point someone decided to decided. This game had to exist. And I bet that it was a bunch of, a lot of majority guys who sort of grouped up and went, how do we build this? How do we build the AI? How do we build the logic behind this? I'm sure they'd built it to cater to what the male mind is looking for next, like, you know, whatever I, and I'm not going to sort of, um, try and, um, guess what attributes are unique to male sort of thing.
[00:41:06] The way male thinks versus the way a female thinks, but I'm sure, you know, it, even if it's like, okay, like at this point we have to make it, make it do X, Y Zed to become more competitive. Therefore we get, get men on the hook a bit more, um, or whatever it may be. And I just, it never dawned on me that, you know, added is at its inception out to FIFA FIFA 2021.
[00:41:28] Now. So at its inception and then sin ever since then, they've just been updating something that has been designed in a certain way with a certain flow, but in a certain logic client it's so, yeah, that's insane. It's almost like self selection. 
[00:41:42] Alicia: [00:41:42] Absolutely. And think of the players and the type of imagery they use in their games.
[00:41:46] I, you know, is there a female cohort in those games or is it mostly guys. That's how we get inclusivity and look at things like that. And yet, so the moment you work, you walk into a shopping center and the, the doors open for you. They're assuming you're a set in height for that to open. What if you're in a wheelchair?
[00:42:04] What if you're not eight or like you're a certain type of, um, Yeah, hot and it doesn't open for you. So I think it's about thinking of things with a diversity lens, thinking of different people and having different perspectives, um, and, and getting people involved in those conversations. And what's the benefit for people?
[00:42:21] Well, everyone uses applications like Instagram. I'm generalizing here, maybe everyone doesn't, but majority, a lot of people use these applications. But what if you know the algorithms and people get frustrated, I know a lot of influences say the algorithms changed. Well, why don't you get involved in that conversation in designing the algorithms?
[00:42:39] So we need females in that space. We need you to be the developer rather than kind of just the influencer, um, you know, beautiful girls sharing their modeling, um, shots, but I'm sure they have a lot of intelligence and insights through using and testing the platform and there's roles in it, such as.
[00:42:57] Testing and what is testing, that's just literally going through and saying, Oh, this doesn't work properly. Um, I'll make a note of that. How do we improve it? So I think just reframing the way we think having diverse people in these spaces and yeah. Start to think about, you know, is this technology, um, diverse?
[00:43:15] How has it created, who actually created this technology and things like that, I think will we'll make a big difference in the long run. 
[00:43:22] Germaine: [00:43:22] Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. Um, And one last thing, I guess, um, before we sort of wrap up, I don't know if you've heard of Lisa SU Lisa Sue's, the CEO of AMD, um, which is the second biggest sort of computer braces and manufacturer in the world.
[00:43:36] And what I love about, about sort of. Her being the CEO of one, she's a CEO of such a big company and it's, it's way up. So, you know, AMD is sort of, um, really had a resurgence recently and it's awesome to even see that because, because I think, you know, you look at the, like for a long time, um, it was older white males that dominated technology, especially at the top.
[00:44:01] Um, yeah, it's very difficult to, you know, look at a cohort that's. That's not you and not like you. And, um, and then aspire to be, be that because you just don't see yourself there. And, you know, seeing diversity sort of becoming more of a mainstay and not, not just diversity for the sake of diversity, but diversity for the, for the sake of, you know, not like giving opportunities to people and giving everyone an equal playing field.
[00:44:27] Um, It is awesome. Like just the other day I saw someone post about band-aids and the fact that band-aids are supposed to be like, they're designed for the fairest skin. And I didn't realize, I just thought band-aids were that color cause the band-aids are that color. I didn't realize that, you know, it was supposed to blend in, but then the more I think about it, the more I realized actually.
[00:44:46] Yeah. Like, cause if you apply a bandaid and you have a similar skin tone, you just don't notice it. Where on my skin, it just, it just sticks out like a sore thumb then even that sort of simple staff, um, from the doors of the, the, um, mall to, to the band-aid, to who leads these big companies, um, the more we see sort of.
[00:45:06] Equal representation or representation of different, of, of the, of the variety of people and the languages and skin color, and EV like Heights and everything that we have that the better, you know, everyone else lower it lower down when I say sort of coming up that future generations. Um, yeah. We'll feel and we'll do 
[00:45:24] Alicia: [00:45:24] definitely and different body types as well.
[00:45:27] There's lots of different diversity that, you know, we can, we can have out there. And I think it's important. We don't just say it's kind of a, a tick box. Like it's like, Oh, okay. We've got someone who's LGBTQ and we've got someone, you know, um, our kind of, um, you know, diversity, different backgrounds. So now it's teach that box and we've got our female, we've reached out participation rates.
[00:45:47] We need to keep going. It's not just something that gets you. It's an ongoing conversation and making sure we have, you know, gender balance as well. And I'm sure there's lots of industries where it's mostly female too, and we need more guys. We need more guy teachers. We need more guys in nursing, different there's lots of different industries and we need that 50 50 to make it well-rounded and you know, I'm sure there's lots of, um, young.
[00:46:09] Boys who are growing up and, or at any different gender and they'll have different perspectives. If they have diversity in the teachers that they have to. Um, and particularly in technology, if you have a diverse teacher or a passionate teacher, I mean, I'm sure you, you, might've had some really passionate teachers and they change your life.
[00:46:27] They shape your life. And, you know, people told me I was. Good at drama and humanities. And that's why I studied that. But if I would've had someone that told me you're really great at science or tech, and I was pretty good at math. So I was in all the extension classes, but I excelled at double major English.
[00:46:41] So that's where I, and I love drama. I like A's. I was like, Oh, great. Performance is excellent. I'll do that. But, um, if I could apply that. Um, like the, the skills that I had for drama and apply that to medicine, for example, and I've worked as an actor, um, at the ANU medical school. So the people studying to be doctors, I'll get a script of symptoms and, and play out that scenario.
[00:47:02] And from that, I've actually learned a lot about medicine and, um, kind of pattern recognition and how to diagnose. And I'm like, It could be a doctor. It could be so many things. I've only learned that later in life, but definitely what you're saying about the kind of, and someone told me the catch cry the other day, male pale, um, which tagline?
[00:47:22] Um, we definitely, uh, we definitely, um, yeah. Need to challenge that, I think. And for me, my aha moment with engineering was high heels. Um, that's engineering. I was like, ah, fashion that's engineering. So think about tech in UAS, you have a device that's with you 24, seven that's tech, and you can shape the way that that behaves.
[00:47:48] Um, and how do we leverage it? I mean, even things like, um, hopefully this isn't TMI, but like a period tracker on your phone. That's tech that's fem tech. That's healthy. 
[00:48:00] Germaine: [00:48:00] Stuff to even educate yourself better about your body when it comes to the apps that track your period and things like, like it's blown my mind, sort of seeing people use the use of technology in that way, because like, W w why hasn't this been at being for a long time?
[00:48:15] Like, it's I feel like it's, it's, it's a recent thing in the grand scheme of things and like really, and it's, it's awesome. Cause, cause some of that innovation yeah. Really takes like it takes females to come up with that. I'm sure a male could have tried to, but we don't, we don't know what, what needs to be like, we don't.
[00:48:35] It's not going to really affect us. So we don't know what needs to be included in what, what would be useful. So, 
[00:48:40] Alicia: [00:48:40] yeah. Whereas for a female, I'm going to talk a lot here. Sorry if it's germane, but for all the female listeners, you know, maybe you're in a really bad mood and you're like, what's wrong? Like it's so far.
[00:48:50] And you're like, Oh, it's PMs time. I've got a notification that makes everything so much better. You have no idea what a different cause you feel like you're having a mental breakdown and then you realize, actually this is. Biology and using tech, it changes your life. Actually, 
[00:49:06] Germaine: [00:49:06] I could imagine, like even knowing, like waking up in the morning and knowing, you know, my hormone levels and my body's doing it, going to do a certain thing today, I can, you know, I then sort of can.
[00:49:16] Move into my day going okay. If I get cut off, I would probably want to react in a very angry way cause I'm stressed or whatever. But now that I know that I'm stressed, I'm, I'm going to keep that in mind. And when I get cut off, I'm just going to do what I would normally do, which is just suck it up. Maybe flash my headlights and just keep going, or just, just sort of using technology to educate and remind yourself about you and, you know, um, and use that to, I just, yeah.
[00:49:43] It's it's unbelievable. Like the stuff that I'm sure we will see in our lifetime in terms of how people use technology and how people use sort of machine learning to do do is just amazing stuff. Now, before we wrap up, I'm going to sort of spring this on you. You've probably not heard about the top 12, which is something that we like to do at the end of every episode, um, is basically four questions that I'll go through.
[00:50:05] And I asked you for three recommendations and three things in each area. So. This is springing this on you. If you can't come up with anything, that's fine. We just move on to the next one. Um, you ready? 
[00:50:15] Alicia: [00:50:15] I'm always ready for it. We'll see how we go. All right, let's give it a go. Always up to try something new main lists 
[00:50:21] Germaine: [00:50:21] or podcasts that you recommend 
[00:50:23] Alicia: [00:50:23] short.
[00:50:24] So I always say I love writing, but actually I listened to audio books, but I think that's the rating, right? I go on a walk and I listen to them. Say the ones I'm listening to at the moment are 12 rules for life by Jordan B. Peterson. Um, the another one I really love is called breaking the habit of being yourself.
[00:50:42] Um, and that the guy's name escapes me bit. Yeah, definitely listen to that too. And then thirdly, um, 101 essays that will change the way you think by Brianna wise. My top three at the moment. 
[00:50:54] Germaine: [00:50:54] Awesome. It sounds like you prepare for this. 
[00:50:58] Alicia: [00:50:58] W I, you know, you, my audible credits have been running out. Yeah. Didn't,  
[00:51:03] Germaine: [00:51:03] it as much as, again, nice top three software tools that you can't live without.
[00:51:08] Alicia: [00:51:08] Oh, I'm probably, I actually just like, yeah, I guess. Google crime. If that's like a very one-on-one type thing that using a lot of different browses, that's like my favorite one, um, on my phone, what do I actually have? And what do I use? I use light room a lot to edit my photos as well. And I'm just going to be boring and say LinkedIn, because that's, and I know they're kind of applications, but they're my favorites, 
[00:51:34] Germaine: [00:51:34] the tool.
[00:51:35] So would you say LinkedIn is your most used social platform and networking platform? 
[00:51:41] Alicia: [00:51:41] Yeah, it is. And do you know, what's so funny when I'm out and about networking, um, and I'm, and to some of the younger people, they're just kind of like, Oh, I've got Instagram, like, Oh, do you have LinkedIn? And they don't have it yet.
[00:51:51] So I always feel like if you'd have been, not in that space, that I 
[00:51:56] Germaine: [00:51:56] just encourage them 
[00:51:57] Alicia: [00:51:57] get on LinkedIn and also not sponsored by LinkedIn, but I'm a big advocate for it. We have all these different jobs as well that I've had throughout my career. It's a great way to stay in touch with everybody 
[00:52:07] Germaine: [00:52:07] and just connect with sort of your peers.
[00:52:09] And like I bumped into bump into, um, I use air quotes for that into so many people on LinkedIn that I interesting. And I don't really spend a whole lot of time on LinkedIn as, not as much as I should, but, um, yeah, it's, it's a fantastic place to spend your time, instead of say Facebook, um, top three mantras, you try to live by.
[00:52:27] Alicia: [00:52:27] Yeah. Okay. So probably, yeah. Challenge your assumptions. I definitely. Do that myself, um, like I have assumptions and I'm just like, why am I actually thinking this, um, change the world one conversation at a time. That's kind of my little tagline. I believe every conversation you have can change someone's day.
[00:52:45] You can have a positive conversation, even if it's at the coffee shop or something like that. Um, yeah. And finally, we won that. Um, I went from code like a girl in managing the partnership with them at, for D fat is you can't be what you can't see. So be that person that is going to inspire someone. 
[00:53:05] Germaine: [00:53:05] Yeah.
[00:53:06] Wow. Yep. Yep. I mean, even, I guess that applies to even like your social media, like you can't be the one, you know, complaining that there's no body positivity on social media and then in the same vein, turn around and edit your face. Photos that you look skinnier or you look like you you've got perfect skin.
[00:53:22] You've got to be that person. You've got to start the conversation and just sort of say, this is me. Like, you know, just deal with it or, or just don't even mention it, put it up and sort of go if you don't like it, you don't like it. That's fine. We'll just move on from there. But you can't, you know, Ask the change and then conform to what you don't like, um, about what's going on already.
[00:53:43] You just got to sort of, um, yeah. Be sensitive about that. 
[00:53:46] Alicia: [00:53:46] Absolutely. And I challenge everyone when he asked, share something, your fate to share on social media, that's like my challenge to you share your stretch marks, share, you know, your acne, things like that. And you'll be amazed and share a bit of a story about.
[00:54:00] You know your journey with that. Um, you know, if you're plus size in, embrace it and share that, and you, you will change. It's not about changing a million people's life. It's about changing one person's life or day. And then that has the butterfly effect. And that's how we change the world at a grassroots, 
[00:54:15] Germaine: [00:54:15] for sure.
[00:54:16] And it's so scalable as well when it comes to social media, like one post can reach so many people. That you don't have to, you know, sort of put up one person then put up H H one to sort of reach more people. You just want one post and it can reach as many people as, you know, you have the reach to, to, to sort of get to.
[00:54:33] So, um, a very powerful they're awesome. And the last one, um, talk to people you follow or study and why. 
[00:54:40] Alicia: [00:54:40] Yeah, definitely. So they are some of the people that I'm reading the books by at the moment. So one is Jordan B. Peterson. He just has these amazing perspectives on life. And the way we think is a psychologist, um, by nature.
[00:54:53] Um, and he, he just is fascinating. Definitely go check out some of his, um, lectures and everything like that. He'll explain the way that you think. And, and I think that's amazing. I love understanding psychology, particularly being a change manager, why we think in certain ways he's. Very eloquent and amazing.
[00:55:11] And I can't explain him well enough, but 
[00:55:14] Germaine: [00:55:14] yeah. New ship as well. So yes, 
[00:55:18] Alicia: [00:55:18] yeah. Threats to Hayes. Great. Um, and then secondly, I love Russell brand's. I love that he comes. Kind of from these, you know, um, Lola cloth kind of background in the UK is kind of a comedian and actor. He does everything, but then his perspectives as well.
[00:55:34] And Hey, you know, recently I watched a thing on YouTube from him about an analysis of the crown and how it's not historically accurate. Well, is that actually what we need? Do we need, um, historical representation or do we watch it for entertainment? So some of those conversations there, um, that that's, um, really 
[00:55:51] Germaine: [00:55:51] interesting Russell brand.
[00:55:52] Cause I, cause I've always thought of him as a bit of a joker who can't be taken seriously, but that might be very, yeah. That might, that might be me having to challenge my assumptions and because I've heard, and I know he has a podcast as well. I'm fairly sure I'm very, very active. Right. So it sounds like you're active and eloquent and intelligent.
[00:56:11] So maybe I should just, um, Yeah, check it out. 
[00:56:15] Alicia: [00:56:15] Yeah, definitely. And he shares his perspective. He's very open and honest and authentic, and I think that's what I value in these content, people that share content. Um, so, you know, he'll, he'll say things about breakups and, and different things like that in his time in the public spotlight.
[00:56:30] And he'll talk about his privilege. Um, but he'll look at things through different lenses, which is really important. And finally, Favorite person and favorite book that I've ever read. And I didn't actually mention it in books, but to re-appear it, um, who, um, is just an amazing, um, advocate. She's written a couple of books.
[00:56:50] Um, she, um, was unfortunately she was in a, a fire and she got burns to most of her body, but talking about the journey to recovery and what she's learned. From that. And she's recently come out with a book called happy, um, and she's just the most amazing down to earth influencer. Um, she's got a couple of kids and, and just is everything I aspire to be.
[00:57:11] And she's very well-educated as well. Um, so check out to reappear. 
[00:57:16] Germaine: [00:57:16] Awesome. That was a, that was a very solid top 12. So, um, thank you for your time, Alicia. Thank you. Thank you for, um, being on the podcast and, um, yeah. Where can people keep in touch with you on LinkedIn? Of course. 
[00:57:30] Alicia: [00:57:30] Yeah, definitely on LinkedIn, under Alicia, Louise Lillington.
[00:57:34] Um, and if they want to follow my Instagram as well, um, it's Alysia underscore and just go a little way. Awesome. 
[00:57:41] Germaine: [00:57:41] Thanks again. And, um, hope you have a good one. 
[00:57:44] Alicia: [00:57:44] Thanks, Germaine.