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Announcer (00:06):
Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.
Wilmer Leon (00:15):
Welcome to the Connecting the Dots podcast with Dr. Wilmer Leon. I'm Wilmer Leon. Please forgive the hat. I was supposed to go to the barbershop today and get a haircut and I didn't. So please forgive the hat, but you do not want to see this crazy head of hair. Here's the point. We have a tendency to view current events as though they happen in a vacuum, failing to understand the broader historical context in which most events take place. During each episode, my guests and I have probing, provocative, and in-depth conversations that connect the dots between the current events and the broader historic context in which they occur. This enables you to better understand and analyze the events that impact the global village in which we live on today's episode. The issue before us is how long can the United States and the Biden administration continue to support genocide in occupied Palestine? My guest is a mid press news contributing writer, published author and human rights activist, born in Jerusalem. His latest books are The General Son Journey of an Israeli in Palestine and In Justice, the Story of the Holy Land Foundation. Five Miko peed, my brother. Welcome to the show.
Miko Peled (01:40):
Good to be with you. Thank you.
Wilmer Leon (01:42):
Let's start with some of the current events and work back. The UN Security Council demanded and immediate ceasefire in Gaza and the US abstained from the vote, and Israel was incredibly, incredibly angry that the United States did not vote no on this. Talk about the significance of that.
Miko Peled (02:12):
Well, it's the tail wagging of the dog. That's really what this is. Somehow the Israel feels, and rightfully so, that anything that has to do with US policy regarding the Middle East, regarding Iran, regarding the Arab world, Israel needs to call the shots. And so if Israel wants America to veto America vetoes, if Israel doesn't want America to veto, it doesn't veto, and it's happened now. And it happened I think once or twice before where America abstained, where Israel wanted it to veto. So now Israel is and Israeli prime minister are having a tantrum. They're in the middle of a tantrum right now, anger tantrum. How dare the United States not obey the orders of how the dog dare not obey the tail? That's really what it's all about. That's what we're seeing.
Wilmer Leon (03:08):
So how do we now really reconcile? Because we're hearing now that the relationship, all these great tensions between Netanyahu and Biden and Netanyahu now is not allowing the defense ministers. I think that were supposed to come to Washington to have a meeting. They're not coming, but at the same time, Palestinians continue to die. Palestinians continue to starve, bombs continue to be dropped. So on the ground, there does not seem to be any significant shift in the reality. It's the rhetoric that has changed at this point.
Miko Peled (03:53):
Look, you're confusing what's important with what is not important. Palestinians dying, starving and all that is immaterial. They're not Europeans, they're not white, they're not Christians, most of 'em, it's really immaterial. What's important is that Israel is satisfied. What's important that the Israeli, the Israeli, different lobby groups, Zionist groups in America are happy. What's important is that the Biden administration, Congress, all the different school boards around the country, chiefs of police tow the line. That's what's important now, and there seems to be like that. There might be a little tiny bit of a shift in this wall of support that this is massive support that Israel has in the United States. It's a very small shift. Mind you, it's nothing major. So this is the important story, the fact that tens of thousands of innocent people are being murdered, and not only does America not try to stop it and nothing to stop it, not only are they selling weapons, they are negotiating.
(04:57)
They're allowing the perpetrator of this mass slaughter of innocent civilians determine the terms upon which they may or may not agree to stop the killing. So there's no precondition for them to stop the killing while the negotiations are taking place. It's an absurd reality of a kind that is really, I think the only way we can understand just how absurd this is, is to try to imagine that while millions of people were being slaughtered during World War II by the Nazis, that the world would wait for the Nazis to agree to the terms of a ceasefire, supply them with the means to continue the genocide, and then just let them wait for them to agree while people were being slaughtered. I think that is really the only appropriate comparison here to demonstrate just how grotesquely absurd the reality is right now.
Wilmer Leon (06:06):
So in terms of negotiation, there was a group of Israeli government representatives and Hamas representatives in Qatar, and when the United States failed to veto the ceasefire resolution, Israel threw a fit and the reporting is they withdrew from the negotiations but left a few people behind to continue negotiations. Some people have said to me that what this really represents is Hamas right now has the upper hand and that Israel is losing or realizes that it's damn near lost this war, and that they're trying to find some way to extract some safe face saving element from this. Your thoughts?
Miko Peled (07:09):
I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not sure that I would categorize it quite like that. Israel is achieving everything. It wants to achieve. Tens of thousands of Palestinians dead is a good thing for Israel. This is an accomplishment. Over a million close, a million and a half starving homeless people, famine basically this entire log jam taking place around the Gaza Strip, the fighting going on, the Palestinian fighters and Gaza are still fighting. So it shows goods Israel opportunity to still utilize its army. There's no downside here for Israel. Israel has no motivation to end this. The more Palestinians die, the more Palestinians suffer, the happier Israelis seem to be the happier seems to be. And this is really the goal of this whole thing. The goal of this whole thing was not to achieve some kind of a military objective or political objective. It was to slaughter people and the slaughter is allowed to continue.
(08:24)
The United States is applying all the arms that Israel needs to slaughter these people. And so for Israel, this is all upside. I don't know why people have the impression that Israel wouldn't be happy. They're very happy, and the fact that the negotiations are not working, the fact that first of all, the fact that anybody's negotiating with Israel is absurd, but the fact that not only is Israel showing up, but it can leave the negotiations because it's unhappy. Again, this is all upside for Israel. I don't see any downside here as far as Israel is concerned.
Wilmer Leon (08:55):
On the 7th of October, I think it was Hasan Nala from Hamas said we weren't ll, I'm sorry,
Miko Peled (09:05):
Wilmer Leon (09:06):
Hezbollah. I'm sorry, not Hamas. Hezbollah, thank you. He said in his speech, we weren't in it on October 6th, but we're in it on October 8th, and many have been waiting for Hezbollah to get more involved. Folks have been waiting, I believe, for Syria to get more involved. Do you see that on the horizon? People have been waiting for Iran to get more involved. Do you see that on the horizon or are the Palestinians to a great degree being left hung out to dry
Miko Peled (09:49):
The Palestinian? No, it's not a question of them being left hand out to drive, but I think it was very clear from the very beginning, this is not going to be a regional war. I think it was several weeks into this where there was this much anticipated speech by na. I happened to be in Jordan at the time, and the streets were empty, shops were closed. Everybody was glued to the radios and to the TVs to hear what he was going to say. And he made it absolutely clear this was a local issue. This was not a regional war, so nobody's going to intervene. I think it was obvious from the very beginning that militarily, nobody's going to intervene. That's not what this is about. And when you come to think of it, I think it's probably the responsible approach. We do know that the Yemeni forces are closing.
(10:38)
The Straits of Bab are disrupting the naval commerce going through the Swiss canal, which of course is a responsible thing to do. But I think we're not going to any of that. We're not going to see that kind of scenario play out in any way, shape or form. What I think we should be demanding is that this government, the US government be held accountable and stop talking about a ceasefire and begging Israel to agree to a ceasefire and negotiating or allowing Israel to negotiate. The sixth fleet is in the Mediterranean. The sixth fleet should follow the example of the Yemeni forces and place a naval blockade against Israel, provide humanitarian aid to the Palestinians in Gaza and impose an arms embargo on Israel. That's really the only thing that that's what we need to be talking about. That's what we need to be demanding of our government. But I don't think there's a realistic expectation that either the Arabs or the Iranians or anybody else would get into this militarily.
Wilmer Leon (11:52):
So there's a lot of discussion about Israel going into Rafa. If you could talk about that. I can't remember who it was, but I remember somebody telling me that because of the specific geography of that space and now the number of people that are in that space, that this will be worse than what we've seen up to this point, if that's even possible.
Miko Peled (12:22):
I don't know if that's possible. I mean, I don't know. Worse means the numbers are indicating over 30,000 people murdered, which means realistically probably closer to 50,000, and those are the ones that were fortunate to die immediately. Then you've got, God only knows how many tens of thousands that are dying of their wounds, dying of starvation, dying of disease, dying. And so under the rubble, suffocating to death, it's going to be more of the same. I mean, unless there is an absolute force that places pressure on Israel to stop, there's going to be more, there's going to be another raha. Now they focus on Shifa hospital, then they focus on this, then they focus on that. There's always something that everybody's focused on. The bottom line is the genocide of the Palestinian people is an ongoing process. Unless the perpetrators with genocide are forced to end it, they will not end. I mean, again, I've, I've never used these comparisons before, ever at all in speaking. But in this particular case, I think the appropriate comparison is to Hitler and the Nazis. Unless if the Nazis were not stopped by force, then there would be a lot more millions more dead in Europe. I mean, I don't think there's any question about that. And Israel is the same. Unless it is forced to stop the killing to end the genocide, there will be tens of thousands, more, hundreds of thousands, perhaps dead Palestinians.
Wilmer Leon (13:55):
I understand the reluctance to use that Nazi comparison. I know I understand the reluctance to use a Hitler comparison, but it seems to be fitting in this context, and this is a question that a lot of people wonder, but because of the threat of being accused of being antisemitic, people don't want to ask. And that is, how can a people that experienced what they experienced during the Holocaust now do exactly the same thing to another group of people?
Miko Peled (14:35):
Well, that's a question that is asked a lot, and the answer is it's not the same people. Very few survivors of the Holocaust ended up in what became Israel ended up going in Palestine. Many of those that did go there left because they couldn't stand this militaristic, racist state that was established there. And so it's not the same people. The Zionists had planned the genocide and ethnic cleansing and Palestine years before the Holocaust, and the perpetrators of the ethnic cleansing and the genocide are not survivors of anything. These are Zionist colonizers. And so it does a disservice to the survivors of the Holocaust. So had nothing to do with perpetrating these crimes. And it's historically untrue. These are not the same people just because these happen to be Jewish people and these happen to be Jewish people. It's not the same Jewish people. And as a matter of fact, there were many survivors of the Holocaust who stood up very firmly and opposed Zionism and opposed the crimes of the Zionists.
(15:45)
Many of them unfortunately have passed on, but some of them are still alive and are fighting and speaking out. And many of their descendants, I mean, you've spoken to Rabbi Weiss and others from the ultra-Orthodox, and that entire community are Hungarian Jews. Their families perished in Holocaust, and nobody stands more firmly against Zionism and the crimes of Zionists than they do. And they know firsthand about the Holocaust. They know firsthand, they know the names of the relatives that were murdered during the Holocaust. And so I know this question comes up a lot, but it's not the same people.
Wilmer Leon (16:25):
And elaborate, if you would please, on the point that Zionism and antisemitism are not the same thing. That the Zionists, Joe Biden is an admitted self-admitted Zionist. Not all Jews are Zionists, not all Zionists are Jews. If you could, because that whole narrative and that mythology is starting to unravel and people are now coming to understand that this is a Zionist issue, this is not a Jewish issue. If you could unpack a little bit of that.
Miko Peled (17:06):
Wilmer Leon (17:07):
Miko Peled (17:08):
As people know, Jews are a religious minority that exists everywhere throughout countries of the world. They have for since time. I Memorial, the Zionists picked on an idea which originally was not a Jewish idea. It was a Christian evangelist idea, which is that the Jews are not just a religious minority. They are part of a nation, and they are descendants of the ancient Hebrews. And therefore, in order for there be a second coming of Christ or something, the Jews have to return to their ancestral homeland. The who later established a Zionist movement who were secular Jews who wanted nothing to do with Judaism. They were completely secular. They wanted to have nothing to do with religion or with Judaism. Always Jews who were religious picked up on that and said, well, maybe this is something we should build on. And they built on this idea, which, by the way, contravenes Jewish law because Jewish law prohibits Jews from sovereignty in the holy land.
(18:20)
I'll say that again. Jewish law, Jews, according to Jewish law, according to their own religion, are prohibited from sovereignty in the holy land. Now, the Zionist having been completely secular and had completely total disregard, if not contempt for religion, particularly the Jewish religion, decided that they would adopt this idea that they named Zionism, which today we know as Zionism, which is a central colonial idea, which was to create a European, Jewish, European colony in Palestine. And since we were talking about Europeans taking over the land of people who are not Europeans, white people who are taking over the lands of people who are not white, the world around plotted this, and the British are plotted it, and the Americans plotted it, and others have plotted it and supported them and so on. So this is what Zionism is. It's a racist, settler, colonial ideology. It's violent.
(19:23)
It produced a militaristic, violent state, an apartheid state, which is known as the state of Israel. And for the last 76, 7 years, it has been engaged in three, not one, not two, but three crimes against humanity. And these crimes were initiated only three years after the end of the Holocaust. And these crimes are genocide, the definition of which as a law was established after as a result of, to large degree, as a result of the genocide of the Jews in Europe, the crime of ethnic cleansing and the crime of apartheid. So three years after the world made this effort to fight and defeat the Nazis and end the genocide of Jews and so many others by the Nazis, they allowed, the world allowed the Zionist to embark on and of the genocide in Palestine. And that is what we're seeing today. So certainly today, the numbers are very, very high. The violence is extreme, but it's not unique. It is part of something that's been going on for a very long time. It's just now people are paying attention because it is so extreme.
Wilmer Leon (20:43):
What point, well, before I get there, let ask you this, people can understand your history born in Jerusalem. Your book, the General Son, your father is a historic Israeli general. Your grandfather signed the Israeli Constitution,
Miko Peled (21:05):
Declar Declaration of Independence. Yes.
Wilmer Leon (21:06):
Declaration of Independence,
Miko Peled (21:07):
Yeah. Yes. I come from a, we, and I had this conversation before. I didn't learn about Zionism in a college course or in a textbook. I learned Zionism at the dinner table with my mother's milk, if you will. My family were all deeply patriotic Zionists. They believed they were true believers. They were zealots, if you will. Every conversation around the dinner table, every conversation of family gatherings was about Zionism and how do we further the cause of Zionism and what can we do more for Zionism and how do we contribute to the state and the state, the state, the state, the Jewish state, the Zionist state was the most important thing in every conversation, in every conversation, whether it was a military conversation, whether it was political conversation, whether it was a cultural conversation, whether it's how do we get countries around the world to support us more and all of that sort of thing. This was everything. So that's where I come from. I heard these conversations every single day growing up. And of course, it was very difficult for me to make the transition and to realize what,
Wilmer Leon (22:13):
And it was also reinforced in school.
Miko Peled (22:16):
It was reinforced in school, it was reinforced in the media. It was reinforced in culture and literature. It was reinforced in popular culture in everything.
Wilmer Leon (22:25):
The dehumanization of Palestinians was taught in schools similar to apartheid in South Africa.
Miko Peled (22:32):
Yes, it was a lot more subtle actually, but it was very, very effective. So you thought you were learning about human right, humanity and liberal ideals and that sort of thing in terms of human rights and people's rights and so forth. And we learned to admire Nelson Mandela and MLK and so on. At the same time, we were perpetrators of these horrific crimes. But because the segregation is so effective, because Israelis, and again, we're talking about very small country, because Israelis live and exist in spheres that are completely, for lack of a better word, cleansed of the other. The segregation is so absolute, so complete. There's no connection. There's no sense that we're causing an injustice because everything, the only thing we know about the other is what we're hearing from our own environment.
Wilmer Leon (23:29):
Miko Peled (23:31):
It's completely insular, very insular. And so you can see when you're on the beach in Tel Aviv, and Tel Aviv is known for its beaches, it's bars, it's restaurant, it's this happy Mediterranean city. And when they bomb Gaza, you see the smoke, you can hear the bombing. Now, there's never been a military in Gaza. Palestinians never had an army. Palestinians never had a tank. At best. They've had grew small groups of resistance fighters, many of them in flip flops and jeans carrying semi-automatic with a handful of bullets. That's it. So that's a Palestinian military, the scope of the Palestinian military. So how can you exist so close to a genocide? Not to mention the fact that my generation, our fathers and mothers participated in these horrific crimes upon which the state of Israel was established and we're proud of it. And you can see today on YouTube, you can see there's lots of footage of that older generation, the generation, my father who was still alive, or before they passed, they were interviewed and they talk about the murder, the rape, the pillaging, the burning of villages, the mass killings and so on. And their other thing is the way they describe it. We had no choice. What else could we do? I mean, if we didn't do it to them, we wouldn't be where we are, which is true, but they justify it. So again, that's where I come from. And the ingenuity of the system is that you can live so close to the other, yet not see the other and then kill the other with a sense of impunity, with a sense of righteousness. Even
Wilmer Leon (25:19):
Your father is attributed with developing or at least articulating the concept of the two state solution. Isn't that? Is that correct?
Miko Peled (25:29):
Yes, yes, yes. Immediately after the 1967 war where Israel took the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, he was one of the generals who orchestrated and then executed this war, which people consider so heroic that it's, some people call it a miracle, which of course none of that is true. And I talk about it in detail in my book and the general song, as soon as it was over, he stood up still in uniform. Literally the last day of the war, the first meeting of the Israeli high Commandants said, well, now we have a chance to make peace. Let's allow the Palestinians to have a state in these newly occupied territories, the Westpac, Gaza, give back the other territories that we occupied from the Syrians and the Egyptians, and then we can have peace. And he was taken aside by Rabin and others who are the other generals and said, what are you talking about? Why would we do that? We're strong. It's all ours now. And he said, well, because if we don't, we're going to end up with this catastrophe, something that's not going to work. Everything we accomplish is going to be lost.
Wilmer Leon (26:39):
Miko Peled (26:39):
Anyways, he did, and then he retired a year later. And the rest of his life, he dedicated, he died in 1995. The rest of his life, he dedicated to this idea of a Palestinian Israeli peace based on the two-state solution as the Israeli establishment made it absolutely clear that was never going to happen and did everything they possibly could to make sure that it would never happen by building for Jews only in the West Bank and so on and so forth. So that is true. He was probably one of the earliest people who talked about this concept of a two state solution.
Wilmer Leon (27:16):
And your father was a linguist after he left the, was it literature and language?
Miko Peled (27:24):
Arabic literature? Arabic literature was his topic. And so he taught Arabic literature in universities. In Israeli universities, yes, ISTs. He was Arabic literature forte. And he spoke and read, and he was completely literate in Arabic.
Wilmer Leon (27:43):
So how does a Israeli general that was as committed to the state of Israel as your father was the son of a signatory to the Declaration of Independence, and now you as their son slash grandson, move beyond the Zionism and the racism and the apartheid to the work that you do now, how's that? Talk about that transformation in your life, in your reality.
Miko Peled (28:22):
Well, when my father was asked about this, how could a man who was so such a hawk as a general, he was known as a hawk. He pushed for war, he pushed for conquest, suddenly turned around, and he said, well, there was no turnaround. The most important strategic objective for Israel at one point was war. And another point, it was peace. And so as far as he was concerned, he thought, well, we created this Jewish state. Granted, we want all of the land of Israel, but we can't have it because we want to live in peace, so we need to compromise. He was deeply interested in literature. He was deeply interested in Arabic literature. He wanted to know about the neighborhood in which he and others established a state. And so to him, it made perfect sense. Where I think he was misguided, naive, I'm not quite sure. Sure. What is that? He thought that racism and violence can stop at a certain point. And the problem with racism and violence, the problem with settler colonialism is that it has an insatiable appetite. And so there was no way Zionism was going to end at a particular border. The Zionism is a zero sum game. The entire cap tree belongs to us. Nobody else matters. There's no room for compromise. And he was a highly regarded general. He was a highly regarded person in general, and he's a
Wilmer Leon (29:47):
Miko Peled (29:48):
Israel. And then he became a traitor. He was an outcast. And so because he suggested compromise. So moving forward, all these years later, I began engaging in this and became an activist and so on. And I remember the moment where I looked around me, I was in Palestine, and I realized that two state solution is a lie. There was always a lie. There was no chance whatsoever for it ever to be to materialize, because Zionism is a zero sum game. Because the reality that Israel created in Palestine does not allow for compromise. Unless Palestinians go down on their knees and completely surrender or die Israel. That's
Wilmer Leon (30:35):
Capitulation. That's not compromised.
Miko Peled (30:37):
Exactly. And that's exactly what Israel wanted. Capitulation. And it's interesting that you use that word because there's a great Palestinian writer by the name of Hassan Canani, and he was assassinated by the Israelis in 72 Lebanon in Beirut. He and his 16-year-old niece were killed in a car bomb that the Israelis placed put in his car. And there's an interview with him, which I strongly recommend. You can find it everywhere, but it's on YouTube where he's questioned, this is 1971 maybe, or something like that. And he is questioned by an Australian journalist, why are you opposed to making peace with Israelis? And he looks at him and says, you don't actually mean peace. You mean capitulation? And he uses that word, you mean capitulation? And the reporter kind of pushes and says, well, why not negotiate? He goes, well, he says That would be a very strange kind of negotiation.
(31:37)
It would be like negotiations between the sword and the neck. And he made it this point very clear. And he was right. And history has proven him right. And sadly, he was 36, I think when he was assassinated. He's a prolific writer. He is written incredible work. And I strongly recommend people look up and read his stories, his short stories against Ani. But he used the word capitulation because that is the intent of the Zionist from the very beginning, ethnic lensing until the capitulate, and then it's all ours. And if you heard Jared Kushner speak about the wonderful beachfront property,
Wilmer Leon (32:19):
That was one of my next questions. Go ahead, please,
Miko Peled (32:22):
Guys. A strip.
(32:23)
And that's what this is about. It's about getting rid of these brown people so that we can enjoy this beachfront property. And that's exactly the point. We want to get rid of these other people so that the settlers can have it. And you'd think Palestinians have known and enjoyed this beachfront property for thousands of years. Now, suddenly you want them. You think that they don't know that this is wonderful property. They enjoy the beaches. They have homes, they have restaurants and cafes and hotels, just like anybody, any other nation enjoying their beachfront property. Gaza used to be known for before the destruction that Israel brought in 1948 for its beautiful dunes, beautiful beaches, wonderful seafood, magnificent views, the fragrance of the citrus trees that grow there. And I mean, that's what Gaza is known for, wealth, commerce, many education institutions, universities, and so on. That's what Gaza was known for. So now, Jared Kushner finally found out, discovered that this is beach pro property. So he thinks the Jews, white Jews are the ones who need to develop it and enjoy it. And he even used a term similar to the final solution or something like that, which again reminds us of the Nazis. But that's exactly the point. They want it all and they want it for themselves.
Wilmer Leon (33:48):
Chuck Schumer, Senator Chuck Schumer in the well of the Senate gave a very impassioned speech a couple of weeks ago where he called for Benjamin Netanyahu to step aside, and he many in the west praised Chuck Schumer for taking such a principled stand. He didn't call for a ceasefire. He didn't call for an end to the conflict. In fact, he said, when this eventually ends, and Netanyahu accused him of interfering in Israeli politics, was that Chuck Schumer really just either reading the handwriting on the wall that Netanyahu's got to go, and when you replace him, chances are you're going to get somebody that's even more extreme than he is like Smo. Is it Morich or Gantz, which
Miko Peled (34:57):
Gantz? Well, nobody can take his place. I mean, this is just talk. There's no one who can take Al's place. But there are several candidates and who knows what Israeli politic guy.
Wilmer Leon (35:14):
My point in the question is that for Netanyahu, for Schumer, I get it confused to call for new elections. Chances are because of the coalition that Netanyahu had to form, he had to move hard, right? Harder in order to formulate his government. It's only going to get worse. It's not going to get better.
Miko Peled (35:44):
Well, I think Chuck Schuler doesn't give a damn one way or the other, but there's a lot of pressure in the Democratic Party for the people who are represented, the Democratic Party in important positions to speak up. And so Chuck Schumer, I think he was feeling the pressure and he had to say something. So he said something that like you say, is completely irrelevant.
Wilmer Leon (36:06):
Well, in the words of that brilliant African-American philosopher, James Brown, he was talking loud and saying nothing
Miko Peled (36:14):
And being a career politician, and I think he was probably born in the Senate if not conceived. This is what he does. That's what he does for a living. I think he's been in the Senate, or maybe he was in the Congress before that. But I mean, he was a politician his whole life. That's what it's all about. It's talking and talking and talking and saying absolutely nothing of any significance. Now, Netanya created a situation where there's no opposition. So let's say Israelis went to, now, there's no reason for Israelis to go to the elections because it hasn't been four years since the previous elections. And the government is strong, and it has, as long as they have a majority in the House of Representatives, it's a parliamentary system. As long as they have a majority, they don't need to go for elections. And they have a very strong, he has a safe majority. That's why if anybody remembers last year, there were all these massive protests against Netanyahu, but this was from the people, the 45%, not the 55%. So he didn't care. They could protest as long as they want. He was safe. So because he's so safe, there's no reason for elections. And let's say there were elections, he's still the only guy who can form a coalition. He's the only one who can form a coalition. He's the best at it.
(37:36)
And he has no qualms about who he sits with. And ideologically, I don't think he has a problem sitting with these right wing, neo-Nazi Jews because he agrees with them ideologically, they have a different take on it because they kind of put a kind of a religious spin on it. So they wear the kippas and they pretend to pray and so forth. But
Wilmer Leon (37:57):
They're arguing over process, not ideology.
Miko Peled (38:00):
Yeah, exactly. And not even process. I mean, he's very happy to see what is happening in Gaza. This is all, like I said earlier, this is all for him, for Israeli politicians and even for the public. There's no downside.
Wilmer Leon (38:16):
There has been talk, we were talking about Israel going into Rafa. There's been talk also about Israel going back into Lebanon. Do you see that as a realistic option? Because I would think if they tried again, they'd meet the same fate.
Miko Peled (38:38):
Well, they're not going to put boots on the ground, that's for sure, because Hezbollah taught them a lesson. And we see in Gaza too, as soon as they started putting boots on the, I didn't think they would, but as soon as they did put boots on the ground in Gaza, they're heavy. Heavy casualties. Heavy casualties. And more than any time within the history of Israel, we see the number of high ranking officers among the casualties, much higher than we've ever seen before.
Wilmer Leon (39:09):
In fact, from what I understand, before the 7th of October, the average age of an Israeli, I think say from captain on up was like 46 years old, and now it's down to almost 30.
Miko Peled (39:28):
It could be. It could. There are many, many high ranking officers and commanders of units, commanders of brigade, commanders and so on that have been killed. So they're paying a heavy price. So they're not going to do, I don't believe they're going to make that same. Now, there was a reason to do this in Gaza. I think the Israeli government wants these casualties. It helps morale, it helps unify the country and so on. To do this again in Lebanon, that's a whole other story. Israelis are still, I think, traumatized from what happened in Lebanon in the past. So the only other option would be to bomb Lebanon from the air and again, create this catastrophe of refugees. And I think that's too much even for Israel to handle. So I don't think there's going to be an invasion or a war in Lebanon. Like I said earlier, I don't think that this is not going to lead to a regional war.
Wilmer Leon (40:23):
This may sound a bit soft morrick, but I think it is a worthwhile question to ask. So South Africa and some other countries bring a case against Israel to the World Court. The United States opposes the process. Also, once the decision was rendered, the United States opposed the decision. This most recent vote in the un, Linda Thomas Greenfield, somebody finally whispered in her ear and said, keep your hand down. Don't vote. Yes. What do you see as being the change in that dynamic? What brought about this most recent action by the United States?
Miko Peled (41:13):
There's a lot of pressure. Look, there's a lot of pressure today on the Biden administration. There's a lot. People are angry in the State Department. People are angry in the White House.
Wilmer Leon (41:21):
People in Michigan are really pissed.
Miko Peled (41:23):
People in Michigan are very, very pissed. I think Joe Biden is in a very, very dangerous position politically, which means the Democratic Party is in very dangerous, very precarious, I should say, position. And so again, that's why we suddenly see Chuck Schumer say something, and then we see this in the un. We see some changes, but this is nothing significant. This is just an attempt to kind of temper the, and kind of calm down the voices that are angry. I don't think it's going to do the job. I think the anger is real, the frustration is real. But these are changes in the margins.
Wilmer Leon (42:07):
And I know your time is short with me, and I greatly appreciate you squeezing me in. So what happens now, your thoughts on over the next few weeks, what happens over the next year?
Miko Peled (42:27):
It depends on us. If we act and we start to change the conversation in Washington, then this can end. If we don't, it won't. Look. Does the
Wilmer Leon (42:38):
Trump administration make a difference?
Miko Peled (42:41):
Not for the better. I don't think it's about an administration. It's about, it's about,
Wilmer Leon (42:47):
It's American foreign policy. It's
Miko Peled (42:49):
Not just American foreign policy. Look,
(42:52)
To be fair, when you take into consideration what Americans know, what do Americans know? It doesn't matter if it's the president or a member of Congress or it's somebody running for school board or just somebody. It was not a politician. What do we know about Israel? What Americans know about that part of the world is leads Americans to support Israel no matter what. Maybe there's a little bit of shift in the margins, but basically speaking, nobody learns about Palestine. Everybody learns about Israel and a lot the Holocaust, the creation of Israel, Exodus, mega exodus, all this kind of stuff. It's heavily, heavily ingrained everywhere in education, in the media, in culture, in movies, in, I mean, everywhere in the press, in philanthropy, I mean, everywhere. Everywhere. There's so many Zionists nonprofits in America that people would not believe. I mean, how many there are in every state and every city and so on.
Wilmer Leon (43:58):
And our elections as APAC is spending a hundred million dollars to unseat. So-called liberal Democrats.
Miko Peled (44:06):
And on top of that, you've got that. So that's on top of that, right? So what do we expect Americans to know? So then somebody comes up and says, we have to boycott the only Jewish state. Well, you've got to be antisemitic to say that somebody says, we need to have a single democracy with equal rights from the river to the sea. People say, well, what about the Jewish state? Do you want to eliminate the Jewish state? There's no context to understand that it's apartheid. Even though Amnesty International provided an excellent report over two years ago that there was the crime, apartheid is being perpetrated. There's no talk about that. There's no understanding that there was a Palestine that was tolerant. There was a Palestine where Jews and others lived. Of course, Palestinians and low Jews live together. There's no context, so there's no understanding.
(44:53)
So obviously nothing's going to change unless we fill that gap. And to be honest, I'll just say real quick, we're working on initiative here in Washington C to remedy that. It's going to take some time, but at least we're going to try. So without change that is systemic and deep and is based on a solid strategy. We're not going to resolve this, and things are going to go better and better for Israel, and even worse for Palestinians. If anybody can imagine that, that's the only change. Those are the only two options. I don't see a third option.
Wilmer Leon (45:30):
Miko. ett, again, I know you've got an awful lot to do. You are so gracious with your time. I greatly, greatly appreciate it and look forward to other conversations, and hopefully there'll be under better terms.
Miko Peled (45:45):
Thank you. It's always a pleasure, my friend.
Wilmer Leon (45:48):
Folks, what can I say? Thank you to Miko Ped for his time with me today. Thank you all so much for listening to the Connecting the Dots podcast. I'm Dr. Wiler Leon. Stay tuned for new episodes every week. Also, please follow. Please subscribe. Go to Patreon. You can go to patreon.com. Wilmer Leon, please contribute. This isn't cheap. Y'all leave a review and share the show. Follow us on social media. You can find all the links to the show below in the description. And remember, this is where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge. Because talk without analysis is just chatter, and we don't chatter on connecting the dots. See you next time. Until then, I'm Dr. Wiler Leon. Peace. Have a good one,
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