Mikee Joaquin - Hip Hop as a Sport? - Noise of the Broke Boys - Episode 010

Mikee, an amazing dancer, sits down on a messy floor like a real broke boy and talks about his background in dance and what the future of Hip Hop dance looks like.

 

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A broke degenerate hooligan documents conversations about being a Bboy, Breakin', Hip Hop, Dance, Art, Music, Creativity, Innovation, and the slow subtle crumble of society in audio form.

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onto the show

in today's episode i sit down with a

dancer i've been rocking with

since i was young together we built our

crew second nature

through hard work and dedication i've

always admired this guy for his ability

to flow with music

he has an uncanny skill for dissecting

music in real time

and getting his body to move in a very

creative way

he is a dancer with many different hats

including popping

breaking locking house and anything else

he's picked up along his way he is from

sacramento california but currently

lives in australia

please enjoy the episode with my friend

and inspiration mikey

hello everybody welcome to the noise of

the broke boys podcast

my name is kurt rockski and i'm here

today

with my good friend mikey what up

why don't you give us a little uh intro

to you

uh since people might not know who you

are i'm pretty sure

nobody knows who i am but that's cool

uh my name is mikey joaquin i am a

dancer originally from sacramento

currently living

in brisbane australia i do

um was it i guess the term is an

all-styles dancer so

yeah like so because so when i first met

you

um you were breaking right with like the

step boys

no no i was not but i met you through

them right yes

um a couple of them taught me yeah

that's how i got start that that's what

that they they i started with b-boying

and that's

yeah they are the ones that uh taught me

initially but i was never

on a step you weren't yeah i know you

weren't on step boys but

uh i just remember i think being at

ivan's house

this is a friend of ours who's part of a

group called step boys

uh and i was maybe like 15 or 16 years

old and i was there and you were there

doing

like practicing flares or something and

i think that's how we met

and so i was like oh this guy breaks and

then i

think you started doing something else

like popping or something around that

time and then i was like oh this guy can

do

everything and then in my mind you went

from b-boy to everything

so uh yeah around that time it was just

like um

i think i felt i felt like i was getting

in the game late because i started

dancing about like

16 like mucking around um and like you

know like you know like

as you do you start like in your garage

or in your room

but i really um it really

it's i don't know if it's bad to like

say or like ruins my street cred

but like you got served was like my

i mean okay look we'll take it farther

back i think i've been i've been dancing

most of my life i just don't

ca i didn't consider it dancing at the

time like i watched

i grew up watching michael jackson i'd

imitate him all the time but i couldn't

like

do stuff i just like to move but you did

like

kids you know you hear a song and you're

like oh yeah that's my jam yeah and then

you

yeah you jump around and then your

parents go like oh what's he doing

yeah exactly i was always moving i was

always moving and stuff

and um yeah and then um i was fortunate

after watching i was like oh that's a

thing that people do like you got served

and uh if you haven't seen this go check

it out that's like that was like a

a big it was kind of like the first uh

what do you call it

dance crew movie because like they have

beat street for b-boying and

it was hip-hop styles yeah

i feel like that was when that movie you

got served was when

the urban dance scene got its like

second wind a little bit was honey first

oh yeah you're right honey was first

which was jessica alba

uh she might have been the only one in

there

i mean like i remember which was always

written it was all about stuff

yeah but i think i think you got served

was when it kind of like

took off and it was like yo this is dope

because no one says

honey but when p people say like oh i

watched honey people still say like you

got served though like people still say

that

i don't know who but i know i watched

honey but it wasn't for the dancer yeah

yeah if you know what i mean yeah i'm

saying no i'm sick

um but yeah so that was what got me

really excited i was like oh that's the

thing you can do

and then you know when you find that

you're interested in something you all

of a sudden you start noticing that it's

always been around

and there was this kid oh i forget his

name but he used to get down with

like um will and rex like some kids i

know before they were on step boys

i forget his name he went to live in

antelope and he would he did uh

this really cool move that where you

spin around the floor called windmill

windmills

yeah i forget his ah but he doesn't

break anymore and like i think he was he

asian

maybe he was dreads no okay so remember

back in the day

there was like a bunch of there was like

an animal i don't know if you knew i

knew some of them because i'd always

practiced in june's house yeah will

cody and um ah i keep forgetting his

name but he

he had sick power oh he could dang i

don't remember his name because

yeah he like quit he did when like and

started like

joined a band or something something

like that yeah when we were

probably still in high school maybe like

just out of high school probably yeah

but like when i was in

i remember he's been doing it because he

his brother did and he started learning

but i was in middle school

and we were at school dance so this is

after i'd sing you got served

yeah and then they had like a dance

competition and you know like a bunch of

people entered but when you're at that

age no one can do shit

no one can do cool stuff and then this

kid just comes out and just starts doing

windmills for days

just spinning around like and i was just

like that is

dope and i want to be like how do you

know what you learned oh yeah my brother

does and then he's like i think

either him oh no my brother my brother

actually no

new will from step boys he's like yeah i

know some of them they break dances i

was like yeah could you introduce me

and even though i was like two years

older than all of them it's still like

that's that's just how much it drew me

and so i yeah and then i'd go and they

just live down the street which was also

cool so i just went down their house

whenever they were free

and just be like yo um you know

t show me some stuff and then over time

i got one shit practice at home i joined

a choreography team called

uh press play i was in i was a part of

another one before called

asian image yeah i didn't um everyone

had they didn't stick around yeah it

didn't

yeah it was cool like dance crew mine

yeah it's called the panda express

cruise so we'd probably take the cake

for the worst name ever yeah yeah but um

it was my idea but it was still it was

still fun and then i joined press play

which is a like a much

bigger deal yeah that's when i really

got into the culture

and and press play for people who don't

know was made by

uh joe laura right yeah who is original

jabberwockies

yes um very good dancer

highly influential in the sacramento

scene yeah and currently one of the

um obviously one of the big heads in

jabbawockeez who now run the

las vegas show super successful i just

watched it super dope yeah go check it

out

um yeah and that's when i really

got into the culture because there were

three directors at the time

joe this guy named brandon greathouse

and then jason mcsoucy and they all had

their own strengths

and did a lot for me in terms of getting

my

my mentality and work ethic and what i

valued as a dancer

and for me it was more it was just about

like just gathering all the knowledge

you can

and and committing it into creating like

your own style because i think back then

dancing was still very very

segregated you were a popper you were

locker you it's still

it still really is too i mean but i

think these i think these days now with

like things like um

you know all the dance programs that are

on as well as the

like you know uh major dance

competitions

um events like uh just taboo in france

or the red bull battles it's really kind

of and the internet has just allowed

everyone to really

realize that it's such a bigger world

out there whereas at the time we didn't

have any of that we literally had like

you either got a dvd from a jam or

like a or friggin like before you see

our tape yeah

or steam youtube sometimes stealing uh

vhs tapes from your friends yeah

or sometimes even like you'd wait for

like the uh like the just a boo

kind of compilation reel from like that

year's event on the website on style to

oof yeah yeah yeah

i don't know if it's still there and you

had to down i remember you had to

download the video that's when and it

was like

yelling you yeah it was on your uh

56k modem which like yeah it rings and

whatever and like it

takes a hell along so long yeah yeah it

would be a

you know a 10 minute video it downloads

like all day

and then oh man i remember i was

downloading some stuff probably off the

same website

and it was just downloading for hours

and hours and hours and then my mom

would go like i need to use the phone

and then then it cuts off no

and then yeah and so and then like

you know maybe half the video downloaded

and you'd like try to watch it and like

just cuts off or it's like messed up or

something

yeah man those were the days yeah yeah

i mean i think it looks like a lot of us

were like latch key kids so it's not

like you had other stuff you just

you'd be at home and you had this new

thing so you had time to wait

yeah but now everything's just so go go

go everything's so fast

a lot of times i would just press

download and then go and yeah

somewhere or yeah or play video games or

play videos

um uh so

so you started out as a b-boy eventually

got into kind of like choreo dancing

and brandon and then kind of introduced

you to popping

popping locking and i like all of it

and i like once i the more they show me

the more i'd go online like and youtube

just started out but people were posting

like just

like crazy or sometimes youtube's but i

think was it google was there at the

time right

like early on it was google and like you

could look up um

dance videos and different styles and it

was hard to find but when at that time

when you're that into something

you put the time search through there

you searched everything i'd be up at

like 4 00 a.m

trying to imitate freaking like moves

from exhibits like dance videos

oh yeah my mom would bust in the room

it's like what's all this thumping yeah

what's this shit yeah what are you doing

i'm just like oh sorry i'm like fully

dressed up

is like because i used to do the same

thing and i would you know watch

whatever

some shit like late at night um my

parents house is just a one-story house

so

luckily i wasn't like jumping on their

the roof to their

bedroom or whatever but i would like be

making hell and noise and shit

um and they would come yell at me and so

instead of like just going to bed i

learned how to like

breaks quieter and i didn't

realize this until somebody mentioned to

me one day like that i break like a

ninja and i was like what the hell do

you even mean

they're like you're like so silent and i

was like that's what you want to do

like like that's like it wasn't that

correct me if i'm wrong isn't that like

kind of the mentality from like even the

og arrows just like

super swift clean control you know how

to touch the floor so you like because

like you would get up and you still want

your suit to look nice because like yeah

that'll always get down at the clubs

they didn't want to scuff their shoes or

like dirty up there

yeah definitely you wanted to come out

looking like a gangster

yeah straight up like and so yeah you

had to step

really precisely and stuff so i don't

know if it was necessarily to be quiet

but it was more to like

not mess up your nice ass clothes i i i

agree though i do

think you look you do move very

ninja-esque

i would use the term methodical like

you know what i'm saying like it's like

it seems like everything's thoughtful

not just like you know sometimes you see

like b boys who just learn

you know we'll say like dancers who

learn moves like i wouldn't class with

myself as a b-boy

just because um i didn't i never fully

prescribed

to the to the culture and i don't know

if that's a disqualifier or anything but

just like

um when you watch like

some dancers learn tricks and they just

kind of spew things out like you're

doing a button combination in mortal

kombat

you just think it just works i just do

the thing and that's it it's like no

there's a form there's a way

to do it there's a certain control and

finesse about certain things and that's

why

that's what separates good dancers from

great dancers their understanding of

those

of that yeah i feel like that's how i

started

dancing is like learning very precise

and fundamental type of

breaking and as i i kept doing that

i think i got bored of it and was like

man and then i started like

you know watching videos of like

different styles and i was like dude

this stuff is tight

yeah how the hell can i make this look

like breaking

so that no one's like you know saying oh

you're not breaking anymore or whatever

so i i spent a lot of time like trying

to figure out

that like i was i remember i took um a

modern dance class and that totally

changed my mentality actually because

make sense

no i can see that in you now yeah

because they

instead of certain moves they focused on

like form

and you know looking a certain way

and so it kind of like took the veil off

of doing moves and

more like doing something doing the

shape

yeah and i was like like you're pers

what's that you're kind of

you shift your perception in a way that

enables you to kind of act more

uninhib or dance more like uninhibitedly

yeah yeah

exactly and so i started i started like

playing around with that a lot and then

um if you remember lao he he was like

good at

ballet and stuff like that and he kind

of showed me lao was so dope yeah

now he's got a kid he's still dope um

but

he's changing diapers now so

he was the nicest guy too i think that

was the thing wait was he he was he

second nature

yeah he's second yeah yeah yeah yeah

yeah yeah yeah i just haven't seen him

in like

probably he got down i think way after

you got down though um yeah yeah and

i think you had already moved to vegas

when he got down actually i think that's

why i think that's why

my my memory is fuzzy i just remember

him being super dope and like definitely

it's just i think out of everyone in

second nature he had the the

the most b-boy build like

oh yeah he's just so much yeah like he's

the closest we had to junior

yeah his upper body was massive and then

he had like my legs but shorter oh

you're talking about quaing actually

no no no no no okay no quaint's probably

quaing does top that clang is hulk

oh okay i guess like a little bit like

that yeah

yeah you know like so like chai is like

pretty proportional

yeah and quang is like super massive but

he's like buff everywhere

and then lau was like like

monkey buff monkey buff yeah and he

could spin like crazy too

now they were they're all super dope

that's what made me and that's the

reason that

kind of like i'm like okay well like if

i'm not like on that tip

or if i'm not like at the level i don't

feel right

you know like calling myself a b-boy

because i didn't

i don't i didn't put the time in you

know that

like and then like when you call it when

you put those kind of titles on i feel

like there's like an amount of

uh respect involved especially because

our culture is very respect based

yeah you know it's like you don't you

don't want to just claim oh yeah you

know like because you know like being a

dancer that being a dancer an actor

whatever that's the thing that's a job

that anyone could just say they are

yeah you know you don't need a

qualification you don't have to go to

school you can just say you are one

and no one can like assess your level

until you actually get down

i don't want to be like oh yeah yeah i'm

a b-boy i'll be

i used to i remember you said like when

i was younger you hide behind those

names

and like you know i had like made up a

bunch of names i thought were cool

and then you kind of and it's like

focusing too much on the external versus

the actual just craft of b-boying yeah

uh i would say that i used to think

more on that in terms of like

br b being a b-boy as like an exclusive

term

but i think i've shifted a little bit on

that because

now i look at it as like if somebody

wants to do it

and say that they're it who am i to stop

them

you know what i mean it's uh it's this

is a thing that is open to anybody so

if you want to dance and you want to

roll around on the ground

uh and call yourself a b-boy that's

b-boy to me because

look at it like this like when it first

started before the

b-boy was even a term people were just

dancing

listening to you know a dj

cut a break you know live and they were

like oh this is dope i'm gonna go dance

and then someone said that's breaking

but

whatever the in their mind they weren't

like saying anything else they're just

trying to dance and so i feel like if

you're

if you're doing that you're a b-boy

and so uh you know espec and especially

if you want to call yourself a b-boy

like

go go for it i don't it doesn't matter

to me it doesn't

i don't think it hurts it doesn't hurt

the term

b-boy at all um in fact i think it makes

it stronger if you got more people

interested in it and perspectives coming

outside of the traditional sense of the

word b-boy

coming in there and then redefining it

almost

and opening it up i guess to a wider

range i think that's

good for breaking that's fair opinion

that's fair

i think i was mainly just speaking for

myself

just because like i remember i got

checked um

really early on about like being a poser

oh yeah like when you're younger and i

think everyone has that

but i think i just um yeah like after

when i in

when that happened when i was younger

i'm just like you know like you really i

think i just

for myself just really want to make sure

if i'm going to do something i want to

be as like authentic about it as

possible and rather

like it's not like because i have so

much respect for like

dancers who do these things at the

varying levels and i would hate to

disrespect yeah i would hate to like

disrespect us in any way kind of like

cheap in you know by like putting my

representing myself a certain way and

then have people like oh yeah

well b boys are like this and it's like

no it's not

they're not they're not i mean like of

course yeah like you said it's more it's

definitely the especially these day it's

a much more fluid term all of these

things but i guess that's just something

i took from when i was younger to be

like you're like i'm not gonna say

i'm a popper i don't even i don't even

consider myself like a locker

because um i do it

but i feel like the way i i think my

discipline is not at to the level that a

lot of the people that i respect and

look up to ed but that's just that's

just me

i look at you as like a mixed martial

artist in a way where

a mixed martial artist wouldn't

necessarily say i

do you know taekwondo or something

they maybe learned it and then took what

they liked

from it and put it into their own style

and then kind of like the bruce lee

mentality it's the bruce mentality yeah

exactly

uh just taking what you like from it and

making whatever you want and then

you're not really sticking to certain

genre

even of music too and you're just you

know i think a lot of times with

breaking is

you're kind of stuck with the music you

get from a

certain dj um but i know that

you whenever you hear a dope song you're

like all right put it on the

playlist for you know dance music

um which which i do as well

but i don't think all dancers do that

so um but yeah so

in a way i think that you're kind of

like a mixed martial artist oh thanks

man to dancing

which which means then you have like

kind of a unique style where you kind of

you go between yeah between styles i

guess is really the only way to say it

is like you'll be

standing up you'll go down you'll do

some kind of breaking move come up do a

locking like splits

pop up do a wave i don't know yeah maybe

a window once in a while

oh bro yeah my my power has always kind

of been uh

fluctuating but yeah like

that's what i try that's i mean i try

that but i mean these days like have you

seen the kids these days man they're

they're crazy they're on some different

they're on some different shit man

they're they've been i think a lot of

them

were like little they were kids of

b boys that were really good and they

just learned

breaking when they were basically you

know born well yeah

exactly it's just that ten thousand

hours rule and they got like a massive

hit they got ten thousand hours when

they were

like five pretty much man because it's

like like what's cool is like when

and that's why they say like when you

get them young the possibilities are

endless because they have unlimited time

unlimited resources unlimited energy

yeah and

um you know especially if they can if

they are if it's something they're super

interested in you know like

yeah like if you ever met if you ever

like worked at like in child care

you see like a kid if you let them will

just play with blocks and cars

for 24 hours straight like they'll play

it until they pass out

because that's all they want to do and

that's great like when they have a focus

so like when a kid's interested in

b-boying they'll just do that

the minute they have any spare time

they'll just do that

so that you got kids that are not even

10 who are like

smoking you know fully grown seasoned

career dancers me yeah me too

me too like it's like all dairy actually

when you battle now because i'm like

oh i gotta go against a little kid but

back in the day it's like oh i can take

this kid and now i'm like oh dude i

don't know

i've never seen this kid before he might

be crazy good and like just destroy

me but they also get like that hype

amplet like you know like it's like

if like the crowd is like a score

they're like the hype

they get like a double double damage

amplifier because they're

kids equal this kid is gonna beat me for

sure if he does a good

around just as good as me dude he's

gonna win yeah he's gonna win

so then you have to throw all your best

rounds at this kid you gotta like

double stamina yeah you have to smash

this kid

and you and it's also bad because then

if you smash this kid then you look mean

for smashing a kid yeah especially if

you like

burn them or do anything anything like

directly at the kit apart from dance you

jump over the kid you make fun of him

for being small

everyone's like oh man come on it's like

dude i want to win

yeah dude i i made this joke with a

bunch of my friends actually is like

battling and

because they'll ask me like why i don't

battle too often i'm like dude

if you really think about it i'll if i

go to the jam i'm going to be one of the

oldest people there

and i'm gonna be battling kids

almost half my age all day all day and

then uh say i beat them

now i look like i'm picking on kids say

they beat me now i'm getting beat by

little kids like you can't win

well yeah you're like you say you in the

gym you got the trophy like

i beat a bunch of kids like that's what

that trophy should be engraved with

but no it's a different time now because

like

so like on that same tip a kid and i

think that's what it's a cool a good

thing is that like any art form

especially like dance is that you know

it's like

you know ballet came out and then when

music changed the new

new art forms respond and then

eventually got to hip-hop

but there was only a finite amount each

dance style only has a finite amount of

moves

and over time the next generation

learned all of that at like

age five to ten so then as they get

older they put

they have combined those things and

evolve those things and it's like

exponential growth of the arts

so now you've got you know b

you've got all styles dancers who can be

boy competently

pop block combine it all together before

they're even

20. it's nuts and like

so like you're just anything anytime you

go up against anyone it's like you don't

know what you're getting

unless you're super familiar with that

local scene but internationally

man like if you go like international

balance you don't know what you're gonna

get man

it's it's it's really awesome it's

really awesome yeah

it's like it's a really good time for

dance especially b-boying yeah i think

all dance really because it's just

becoming more popular more people are

getting

interested in it and uh i think

i think what's great is that a lot of

the styles are so interconnected now

where where in the sense that you go to

like a breaking jam

like say freestyle session or something

they'll have a popping

competition or a locking competition or

whatever all styles

also yeah and all styles competition so

you would go there

for the breaking and then you get

introduced to all this other stuff and

then maybe that stuff resonates with you

more and then you start doing that

yeah so i think that's that's really

cool and then you're also seeing it on

tv more in

movies and um now finally the olympics

and then yeah now breaking is going into

the 2024 olympics

which we think about it's actually kind

of cool because what

um how old is b-boying now uh let's see

it was started probably mid

70s i i know that there's varying um

yeah people's opinions on that but um

let's just say probably mid 70s

mid 70s so

that's like about 50 almost 15. like

almost 50 years probably

so it's actually damn dude that's kind

of crazy because

it's such a young dance

and we've been in it for

at least for myself i've been breaking

for at least 18

19 years probably so that's like

a third of the time it's been around

that's kind of insane

it is yeah when you think about it and

now and then

the olympics now changes the whole game

because the minute you make

you put something in as a sport with

quantifiable scores

yeah and the mentality the focus is on

things and then you wonder like are they

going to have different kinds of

breaking events like obviously right now

it's just 2v2

um co-ed teams which is dope yeah yeah

which is dopes because like you know

there are

so many amazing uh b girls out there

and prior to recent years there wasn't

always like

you know the climate wasn't always great

for them yeah and i feel like now it's

like this is this is a great way to

equalize it

and now but on top of that it's just now

that um

any olympian can now you know b-boys can

finally kind of reach that um

career standard that other that other

athletes

can with you know getting brand deals

like you could actually retire

a gold medalist b-boy like that sounds

freaking cool yeah that's like pretty

insane and

i think the athleticism has always been

there in brazil

but it just wasn't respected as

kind of anything really just like oh so

some dudes rolling around on the

cardboard or whatever so now it's

getting at least some recognition as

like a legit thing i

i actually look at it a lot like how

skateboarding and mixed martial arts

used to be

where it's considered background

tomfoolery yeah exactly it's just like

some bullshit you were doing

uh to waste your time at least

skateboarding was

um and uh then some brilliant people

were like let's make

uh the x games and then kind of

you know i don't know there was probably

a lot of discussion about how to like

judge it

that went along and i know they have a

lot of different events in it

but eventually when they figured all

that stuff out dude the sport blew the

hell up and now there's like video games

and

movies and stuff and you got like legit

celebrities

uh celebrity uh uh athletes

yeah like like tony hawk dude set for

life

seriously yeah and he's not even like

olympia

wait do they have i'm sorry if this is a

dumb question is

any are any extreme sports in the

olympics

i don't know i don't think like rock

climbing that should be in olympics

oh yeah have you seen speed climbing

there crazy

dude it's crazy and the amount of yeah

because they're they're reaching with

their leg and their arm at the same time

they're literally spiderman

but um that's some insane stuff yeah

there's a lot of stuff that really

should

get and there's respect as like an

olympic

uh sport there should be things that

they should take out

as well like that canadian thing with

the rock and the brooms

yeah it's uh yeah it's is it was it

olympic level uh cleaning your house

yeah yeah

i don't know it's just they call it

curling she really changed the name to

like

friction ball or friction ball yeah

i mean i don't really care that it's a

sport i

it's it's um it's not something i would

really watch

but i got respect for people i mean you

know there's an audience for everything

yeah it doesn't hurt me that it's in

there i guess i guess if it came down to

you gotta pick only one out of all that

there's like a lot of

there's a lot of things that probably

should be in the olympics before that

one but

um because i think wait isn't there like

a look man we're really showing how much

we

don't know about theology i don't know

shit about shit

i was like is there olympic chess i

don't know

that's interesting would they do that

because people there's people watch

chess yeah no it's a big thing it's

amazing

like go like the asian game go

there's hell of people watch that uh

it's kind of like a chess but

different way harder oh okay i don't

know i don't know much about it either

but

i know that it's huge in asia what i'm

thinking

what i think would be cool is like say

like 50 years from now

when like they'll start being like

e-sports

dude or like you know what i'm saying

like vr sports

in the olympics maybe oh you know zero g

sports

what would be interesting is if they had

like vr

uh like boxing matches um

where yeah that'd be really interesting

i don't know like

because like yeah because fighting is

based is like based on like weight

divisions

so how do you well and also it's

there's like a lot of danger in like

getting punched in the face all the time

so there's all this

worry about concussions and like the

long-term effects of that and so it's

like

if you had a vr thing you can use your

skill

in boxing but like without any of the

danger without the danger and

and obviously i think to be a good boxer

you'd still

you it'd still take tons of athleticism

but yeah you're not getting

punched in the face it's kind of like

the vr is just reading that you got

punched in the field

like you're down yeah but then i guess

there's i guess it becomes weird because

yeah you don't have the chance to like

get back up like a regular boxer would

you know they got the 10 seconds to

stand up or whatever

oh yeah it'd be a different sport it'd

be like it would have vr punch

punch each other put vr punch out yeah

that's what it would be

punchy punch man punch punch yeah like

it would have to um

they would have to get like the graphics

would be really good to like

for people because i think a lot of it

these days it's like they have to they

want to put sports in that

people there's an audience like people

really want to watch yeah

you know so like which i think is why

oh yeah that's why i think breaking will

be great in the olympics because

it's just fun to watch even if you don't

know shit about it it's just like dude

you everybody everyone can key into that

hype

they all like understand rhythm a little

bit

to be able to like recognize that guy's

got rhythm that guy

hit that blow up some crazy move yeah i

mean it's

in a way like breaking has always been

like um

like a a spectator sport in a way

because

the thing i always mention to people

about

judging breaking it because i always

make the argument that you can't really

judge breaking because it's really an

art form but

the only argument i can make for judging

is that when you were battling like way

back in the day before there was any

kind of competition

you were trying to like clown the guy

you're against right

and the way you do that is to get the

crowd to like

cheer for you and when you like do

something to them they're like aha he

got it and you know

and he can't do anything back to it um

so in a way the

the crowd was always judging it anyways

and so

um i think that's why i make the

argument too that

it's a spectator sport really if when

you when you bring the competition

aspect into it

it really is a spectator sport um so

yeah i think the the only issue or

nothing

well one of the issues they'll come

across just in terms of implementing in

the olympics it's just

just the the the judging system yeah

house

how will they do that in a way that like

makes sense and like i think

and it depends on if they like if

they'll come up with their own system or

just respect the

three judge point system or well they

come up with their own thing because i

feel like

out of all the sports in olympics it's

probably the closest

in to like gymnastics so then i wonder

if yeah

once that once b-boying becomes more

established

in the battle sense will there be other

things because like gymnastics has its

own like i don't know however many days

or whatever but it's like

you know the pummel horse is just just

one thing you can be

you spend your whole life just trying to

be the best of the pommel horse and it's

like yo that's just that's just flares

it's just so it's like

yeah will there be like a flare

competition head spins

and then there'll be b-boys kind of like

in like those like crazy japan crews

where it's like you got there

just you have your your hybrids and then

you have your

specialist that one guy he doesn't do

much he just does head spins he can do

it for years

you know that kind of stuff that would

be cool and then you would have like

then you could have like the style and

creativity battles where it's more about

more about that yeah i've had this

conversation with a lot of people on the

podcast actually

uh because i

i'm i'm a firm believer that it's really

hard to

judge breaking because it's essentially

an art form and

i like to make the comparison to

painting

how do you judge this painting versus

that painting there's a lot of things

you can do

like color composition brush strokes

whatever you know detail all these

different things

but ultimately when you go i like that

one more than that one

yeah you're just taking all those

aspects and saying

this one matches the stuff that i like

the most versus that one

so it's it's very much a subjective

uh decision between those two

art pieces so in a way breaking is the

same thing it's like

there's so many aspects to breaking

there's musicality there's dynamics

there's

um you know flow all these different

things um

and you're all you're everyone's gonna

have their own opinion about what they

like

the most and so when you're judging

between these two guys given that they

didn't crash or anything or break their

face

uh you're gonna go okay this guy your

face and it not be a crash

uh i mean i don't know tiny tim

for people who don't know tiny tim is a

b-boy shout out to tiny tim what up

teddy today he jumps on his face and

does all sorts of crazy stuff and it's

like

that's a thing he's got no nerves in his

body he must not because he just

drops on himself you'll do it it's dope

this is not a clown this is a this is a

boost because he's

literally yeah clueless like he'll just

just throw him over a car he's fine

he's uh um he should get into stunt work

honestly you know those you know those

little clown dolls that

like you can't knock them over oh yeah

the little punches the punching ones

dude he's one of those like you throw

those and it's just like

yeah and he lands on his feet you're

like oh okay how about that

[Laughter]

he's one of those oh anyway shout out to

tiny tim

um but yeah so but yeah when you're

judging between those

two guys ultimately you're gonna go to

your

overall opinion about it so

uh when you're going to the olympics now

you really need to have some

you need to be able to quantify that is

the ultimate goal

and so i haven't figured out a good way

to do that

i know there's a couple guys that have

tried to do it like

dizzy like the house system and the yeah

i think it's team system

yeah that's dizzy's yeah that's dizzy's

system are those two different ones

am i talking about the same thing pretty

sure it's the same thing okay it's the

one where there's like what's the other

five categories

yeah but yeah and there's one judge for

each yeah but what's the other system

then the bc one system because that's

still just three judge in it

there's three yeah there's the typical

one is three judges and

at the end of a set amount of rounds

they point to whoever won

and usually what they do is they judged

it round for round so

round one maybe b boy a took it

round two b boy b took it go on for that

and then whoever

had the most rounds that they won uh

gets to win that battle

um that's the typical thing i've seen

and i guess determining who won each

round usually comes down to who flopped

on such a high level yeah it's usually

always kind of like this

until someone does something to stand

out or to fall off

yeah so like they either you know hit

some like crazy combo

and then the other guy just doesn't meet

that yeah or but

yeah every time i talk to anybody about

this i always say that the

the only uh universal quantifiable

um criteria we have and

really dancing is a crash is you can go

like that crash looked a lot worse than

that crash

or that guy crashed and that guy didn't

that's that's boom

that's the other thing with bboy i

always give props to b-boys four

because uh b-boying is hands down

the most um athletic and physically

taxing

of the uh of the styles that you can

dance

i mean like in the battle scene until

they start doing parkour to music

[Laughter]

they just put boxes just in just like a

massive like 10 square meter

space and it's just like hey that's cool

like have you seen competitive tag

dude that shit is crazy so dope oh my

god that's like

that's like that that's how you would

move on man and see that shit should be

a sport

an olympic sport i like yeah it actually

would be a lot easier to judge

too because it's just like how many tags

you just yeah it's just

who can get tagged or like how long it

took to get tagged or whatever

and you just make the rules on like how

you can actually interact with all the

things on there and like what it means

if you go out of bounds or whatever yeah

or like

that's really all criteria like you have

to touch certain things while you do it

or something

we're right back to people yeah we're

bri i think we're br

breaking has a lot of difficulty is the

the artistic aspect of it is like how do

you quantify

any of that and it's really freaking

hard and so that's why

um so and so i think

that's where it being similar to

gymnastics kind of breaks down because

a lot of gymnastics i mean they i think

gymnasts

when they do like floor routines they do

get some kind of creativity

score um it's like it's like one judge

is assigned to that

i don't know how it works honestly and

that might not even be a thing i might

just be making it up that's just what i

heard but um but

i know that what they do is they submit

their routine

so that all the judges know what's gonna

happen oh so they have like a comparison

so well because then they go okay

they're gonna do this specific

flip at this moment so then they know

what that's supposed to look like and

what a perfect

execution of that looks like and so when

they do that they can

do a deduction if they like had to step

out when they landed okay okay

but you can't do that for breaking

because there's no routine you're going

to submit before it's all like off the

top of your head yeah

and i mean you don't even know what kind

of music is going to be playing honestly

that's probably i mean the biggest the

biggest difference between

um how b-boying goes in the olympic

extension unless they force it that way

i don't know how it's because that's the

thing is we don't know how it's going to

go down i forced it

i think it'll be weird but yeah i'm not

against that but

like if like say if that's like like

showcase yeah

you know if they have you do show like

you know and then people start you know

basically submitting choreography it

would be boy choreography

yeah yeah so if they did that

i don't think that that's a bad thing

it'll be

very different from what everybody is

used to though in the scene

um i guess you know what like i'll take

that back because

battle of the year had their like shows

in a way it'd be doing what battle of

the year was doing minus the

battles but i guess somehow they would

be integrating battles into that maybe i

don't know yeah

well i mean that's what i'm saying i

kind of feel like

maybe showcase versus showcase yeah or

like that's what i'm saying like i think

right now they're starting with battles

because that's just the most the easiest

most palatable way to put it out there

but then

once it becomes more established then

you want to see it well because it's

just you know also like you know money

talk so it's like

the more um more hype around watching

b-boying if it

and if it actually goes off

internationally well let's create more

events that more people can come watch

and then you'll have more obscure and um

different events but for now it's just

the battling and

how they decide to push that but i think

regardless how they do it it's

definitely

going to change um the culture moving

forward

and whether or not it's going to split

it and because like it's already like

you can already kind of say there's

different kinds of people like you got

showboys

e-boys b-boys you know and you you know

this is kind of already different

breeds yeah whereas now and then you'll

have the olympic b-boy for say

versus like you know say a cipher b boy

or a you know a

battle b-boy like people that just they

have their focus where they

most excel at yeah but still all part of

the greater

b-boy community it's kind of like street

skating versus vert skating in a way

there you go yeah exactly you know like

i i you live on the half pipe

or you prefer like you know going just

out on the street you can just

skate on anything like rails or whatever

yeah

um so going back to judging actually

the other thing that i try to compare it

to is like combat sports

because in a way a battle is a fight

between

two groups or two people right

and you're oh we're at 45 minutes ish we

can probably wrap up pretty soon

all good yeah um what was i saying uh

yeah similar to combat sport because

yeah you got two guys

kind of reacting to music you know you

know in a way that's like fighting

it's just the circumstance that you're

in you're someone's not throwing

attacks at you they the dj is throwing

music

at you and and yeah and then the other

guy's throwing like certain moves and

stuff and so you're responding to all

that stuff you're listening

you're focused on the music you're

focused on what this guy just did

somehow you're going to answer what he

just did

um in your own way and then he's going

to come back and answer you too so it's

kind of like

turn-based combat yeah sort of i mean

kind of i

i definitely think mix mixed martial

arts is a good

um analogy for the battle

yeah but i guess it's like kind of like

the the music is more of like the

landscape that you have to navigate

yeah it's like because it's like

different rings makes different it

changes it's a pokemon battle

yeah yeah so if you're at a gym and yeah

they play

like electro no this is electric

electric style electric style music so

electric yeah you need to hit this

electric pokemon moves

to take out the other guy dude that's

what it is yeah

my 2000s are super effective to his

weak cc's yeah that's a terrible ccga

[Laughter]

rock type b boy would probably be like

what do you call them um

like all suicide drops oh yeah

uh let's be like ground type rock type

would probably be kind of like

what junior does junior would be a rock

paper scissors yeah he is like geo dude

he's in geo too yes

that's what's up oh yeah and then like

when and then like all the spinning

like like a lot of like power is like

that's like wind or

your boy pocket is a fighting pokemon

yeah and then and then fire

fire b boys just just the burns

water type would be like like a flow

style

yeah yeah yeah you'd i think you'd be

like waters oh i'd be a water type

you're like water type i'm like

i'd be like electric type because i'm

just super

because i'm all about just high energy

vince would be electric type i think

yeah he would yeah

he would he'd be like the next evolution

up though i'm like

i'd be like oh you'd be a pikachu and

you'd be a raichu

yeah that's what i reckon in the

b-boying world

actually pikachu is a lot cooler than

raichu cooler maybe

he's a detective a raichu will smoke a

pikachu every time

yeah except on the cartoon which doesn't

follow its own rules

he's cuter yeah and he's a detective and

he's a detective

he's got the voices like ryan reynolds

so yeah watch that's the inner light

[Laughter]

dude that's what's up pokemon um

what was i saying so combat sports i

think is somewhat similar but

the difference between combat sports and

braking again is like combat sports you

can get points for like

connecting certain uh punches or

whatever strikes

or a certain takedown or a submission or

whatever

but there's nothing that really

there's nothing that's similar in

breaking i guess so i've always had i've

had the issue of how do you

how do you reconcile that in the in

terms of judging and

i've come to and let me know what you

think about this is i've come to the

to the uh to the realization that

i think the fairest way to judge this

is to just have a crap ton of judges

let's say 10 or more

judge this they're all you know just

guys that across the spectrum of b

exactly young yeah yeah exactly i mean

they

obviously have to be knowledgeable about

the scene like you got to vet them

properly and make sure that

like i mean they'd probably have to have

like a years of experience

type of thing and then a year or years

no years

like you know multiple years of

experience in it like well-known

uh from different areas

hey dudes yeah which i mean i guess

that's a debate too of like what

constitutes you know a good uh

someone who fits into that category and

who doesn't but like i would say

if you can get 10 or more people like

that and you just sit them in a circle

like that's your crowd around this

battle that's a cool idea and then

just let the battle happen and they just

hold up like the color

side that they i mean they just

essentially they can judge the way

they've

always judges point to the who they

think wins but

yeah but i think what what's good about

that is you rule out a little bit

of the specific like crew you know

personal bias

it's like because maybe it's just three

three it's easy to still have some bias

but if you've got ten

because if if one judge in the number

three says

uh like i really like this guy over that

guy and i'm always gonna vote for him

that's a third

of the judging power is always gonna

vote for that so i say

you just need to get why judges so that

that guy gets beat out because he's

obviously judging incorrectly because

then it lessens the value of his bias

yeah and so now it's like maybe he's

voting always for

b-boy a and then you got like seven

other guys that are voting for b-boy

b it's probably more likely that b-boy b

won than b-boy a because

the majority was on that side so i think

that's probably the fairest way to do it

and then you just gotta pay

good attention to who's who you're

putting in the pool of judges and maybe

you want to do even more than 10

maybe 20 like who knows yeah but i would

say

somehow doing the majority rule thing

in a way it stays somewhat true to

breaking because

breaking started as kind of like like i

was saying before like a spectator sport

it was um uh crowds were judging in the

first place so now you have just this

really knowledgeable crowd

true right and they're judging and uh

the biased people kind of get outvoted

or they fall in line with the

rest of the majority and everyone else

thought that that guy actually won it

straight i think that's probably the

fairest way to do it i don't know

um i don't know if that's how it would

be implemented but

i know that that way is still going to

break down

as soon as somebody who doesn't know

anything about breaking comes in and say

well why did that guy win over them and

then they go

oh well uh that's what and then that's

like when you need to have like good

commentators that can

kind of explain it because that's so

that's every other sport

you have commentators that know what

they're talking about and then when the

audience watches they oh

okay yeah cause like if i come in i come

in like i don't sports

i don't do sports but when i watch i

know the commentator will help make

sense of

okay well they're winning because so and

so can't kick or something

you know yeah yeah yeah i would say so

but

even sometimes though like

commentators will get it wrong i mean i

don't know how often it is

that i see a battle that i judge one way

and it went the other way

and i don't know if that's because i'm

bad at judging or you get like finer

fine-tuned your sense of who won i think

into so many yeah i mean all i can say

is that it comes down to

my bias so uh um

yeah so

yeah i know that there's there's a

there's a big

there's a big uh thing that the whole

committee of

olympics is going to have to like get

over

to to have breaking really be uh

i guess a respectable sport um

and and it's judging is that big hump

that they need to get over

and but i think yeah in time it's just

anything in time there will be growing

pains

but i mean like it's been it's been 50

years and

50 years coming you know like yeah and

it's there now

it's not you know unless someone messes

up real bad

i don't think it's going anywhere like

yeah it's i i reckon it's here to stay

this is the time

it's their it's their time yeah the only

thing some of us

were talking about before um in a

different show

uh was um the thing that we thought

would mess it up

is like drug use yeah in breaking

because like

there's so many people that use a lot of

drugs and so like oh like like like

performance enhancing drugs or just weed

it's well mostly it's weed but i know

like people do a lot of stuff so i don't

know

it's not performing i don't know yeah i

don't really know the people that do

steroids or anything

but i don't know what the rules are in

the olympics

well once you get to olympics there's

just no drugs right yeah right that's

what i thought it's like you can't have

it

you got to be clean yeah exactly you

have to come in at like and so

just what you just what you're innately

given i would

i mean if the if you literally can't do

anything you can have

you can have coffee energy drinks so i i

would say if they were able to throw out

weed you'd probably get a good amount of

b-boys excluded if if

if they test for weed dude the

scene the scene is going to have a very

hard time i mean i don't

i don't smoke weed or anything but i

know that there's a lot of b-boys that

do and

i mean like i'm sure there's heaps of

olympians that smoke weed too just not

on the day of uh

of you know i mean like you know have to

go cold turkey for like

months though like before they go i

would imagine right i mean but like you

know but i mean

they allow i mean maybe it's a thing

that will eventually catch on because

now that you know america has legalized

marijuana

now that they use a lot of a lot of yeah

a lot of countries and that's fine and

like no one has a problem with

athletes smoking cigarettes which

actually kill you so like

yeah i see i don't know it i mean yeah

it's it's it really comes down to what

the olympic committee thinks about it

because

which is a worldwide thing and so you

know definitely

in some countries um it's been

completely legalized

in america it's like kind of halfway

there yeah

um uh but i know in other countries it's

like

go to jail forever sometimes um so i

don't know

i don't know how that feeds into

olympics but i i would say that's

probably the one big thing that'll eff

it up

if anything i mean yeah and when you say

it does seem

like it could be a risk it just depends

on uh

i mean really you can't really know how

it's going to turn out because there's

so many variables

yeah um there's

yeah there's so many different ways but

i'm in i'm excited to see

what happens with the olympics and um

you know

uh i think a lot of b-boys are and i

think it's a good thing for the scene

100 yeah so yeah excited to see how it

goes yeah and my and my main

argument for that is that it's going to

introduce so many different people

to it that exactly didn't know it even

existed

and that there was this kind of

competitive thing out there and so um

um with that i think we could probably

start wrapping this show up

um i think that was a pretty good

discussion

um is there anything you want to close

with is there any like shout outs or

uh uh shout out to

uh jabbawockeez in las vegas

dope show i just saw them the other day

and it was like

it's really good to catch up it was a

good yeah really good show check that

out

shout out to swagger mama crew in

brisbane australia

i don't know if any of you will ever

hear this but it's uh if you do

no please please listen oh god

[Laughter]

uh second nature crew of course og

uh press play i mean yeah i think those

are the

those are the main war for me and yeah

and just

thanks for having me on man it's good

catching up as always yep

yeah and we're out here in america for

your visit

your yearly visit and so um

anyways with that we can wrap up right

now

you got any like final uh plug

you want to do what's your instagram ah

nah nah don't worry about my screen fuck

your instagram

all right all right see you guys thanks

for listening bye

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