89 - Eagle Scout Ownership, Jason Brennan - Fine Tune Auto Service

89 - Eagle Scout Ownership, Jason Brennan - Fine Tune Auto Service

December 19th, 2023 - 01:00:25

 

Show Summary:

 

Host(s):

Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development

 

Guest(s):

Jason Brennan, Owner of Fine Tune Auto Service

 

Episode Highlights:
(00:00:00) - Opening: The pursuit of industry excellence.
(00:01:00) - Evolving from technician to owner.
(00:05:00) - Scaling up: From a modest start to multiple locations.
(00:14:00) - Leveraging coaching for business transformation.
(00:18:00) - The cost of delaying business education.
(00:21:00) - Strategies for struggling shop owners.
(00:30:00) - Team dynamics boosting revenue.
(00:40:00) - Planning for business expansion and growth.
(00:53:00) - Leadership lessons from scouting.
(00:57:00) - The impact of mentorship and advice.

 

We want to hear from our listeners! After tuning in to Jason Brennan's story of growth and learning in the automotive business, what's one lesson you've learned from your own experiences that you wish you knew when you started? Email us your stories at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and we might just feature them in an upcoming episode.

 

 

Links & Resources: 

• Want to learn more? Click Here
• Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here
• See The Institute's events list: Click Here
• Want access to our online classes? Click Here

 

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Episode Transcript:

 

Leading Edge Episode 89

Kent Bullard: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Institute's Leading Edge, a show dedicated to giving automotive professionals the tools and education needed to succeed. The topics we cover are all geared towards running a better business, leading a better life, and ultimately changing the industry for, well, the better. Here's what's coming up.

Jason Brennan: I did a lot of things wrong, but I was smart enough to realize that until I had my first store running the way that it should, I really had no business opportunity. Again, what I did definitely isn't what people should do, but what I did, I think about it for a year. I hired another technician. You got nothing to lose by trying it out.

Jason Brennan: If you keep doing the same thing you're doing, that's not going to work for sure. I would listen to advice and then I wouldn't do it and I'd make up some kind of excuse. Don't wait till it's not up to you anymore what happens. We

Kent Bullard: need your help. By submitting questions or topics to info at wearetheinstitute.

Kent Bullard: com, we can continue to provide relevant content to you, the listener. But for now, Now, what are we waiting for? Let's

Jason Brennan: get into it. Well, no, in the Air Force, I just did Air Force stuff. But in, you know, in college, though, I [00:01:00] would pay my room and board by fixing people's cars or buying cars and selling them.

Jason Brennan: Sometimes I'd drive them for a while first and then sell

Jimmy Lea: them. How's how's the weather up there in Illinois? How are you guys doing?

Jason Brennan: It is unseasonably warm, which I'm not complaining about. It's a little rainy today, but we haven't gotten very much snow this year and it's it's kind of weird, but you know what?

Jason Brennan: But we're busy. The shops are busy.

Jimmy Lea: Dude, we're we're getting we have this super cold flash coming down. In fact yesterday Had I gone north about 50 miles. I could have seen the northern lights. That's crazy yeah, yeah trying to go up to northern utah and it's snowing. They're supposed to get two feet of snow this weekend

Jason Brennan: Oh cool.

Jason Brennan: Do you ski?

Jimmy Lea: I haven't skied for probably 30 years, but yeah, I, I do enjoy snow skiing. I did enjoy snow skiing and snowboarding once upon a time. What about you? Are you a snow skier?

Jason Brennan: Nope, not anymore. I, I, I'm, I'd probably get, I'd probably get hurt or [00:02:00] break something. I, I do have snowmobiles, but I'm probably going to sell them.

Jason Brennan: I'm just focused more on family stuff now, you know? Right.

Jimmy Lea: And that's what you want to be focused on too. I noticed your mug. Is that a

Jason Brennan: Eagle Scout? It absolutely is. Yep. Are you

Jimmy Lea: an Eagle Scout?

Jason Brennan: Yes, sir. I'm an Eagle Scout. This is a Calumet Council. No longer exist. It no longer exists. Yeah, I remember you saying you're an Eagle Scout.

Jason Brennan: That's cool. Yeah, and

Jimmy Lea: I was a Scoutmaster for 18

Jason Brennan: years. It's a good I think scouting is a good kickoff to the to being a leader at least it was for

Jimmy Lea: me So question for you with your boy scout background, I I know that that Is going to influence heavily your leadership and your abilities.

Jimmy Lea: It's probably going to come up in this conversation, too my first question for you goes back to the beginning. How did you get started in the automotive industry?

Jason Brennan: Well, how far back do you want me to go? Well, [00:03:00] I mean, were you two years old turning a wrench? Pretty much. Yeah. Maybe not too, but you know, as a, as a kid, as far as getting into the trade, I did start as a technician.

Jason Brennan: So getting into the trade, I, it came naturally because I was always finding lawnmowers in the garbage or something and fixing them up, mowing lawns with them, making more money to buy more lawnmower parts or whatever it was. So I was always kind of an entrepreneur and. I'm always interested in anything mechanical or electronic.

Jason Brennan: So yeah, so then Then I did a bunch of stuff. I went to the air force went to university of illinois chicago for a while for electrical engineering because I liked electronics And then I just realized that wasn't for me. I couldn't stay out of the garage. I was always working on cars to Flipping cars working on cars, whatever.

Jason Brennan: So I just I decided that

Jimmy Lea: So you [00:04:00] did this, you flipped cars in the Air Force, you flipped cars at University, is that what I'm hearing?

Jason Brennan: Well, no, in the Air Force, I just did Air Force stuff. But in, you know, in college, though, I would pay my room and board by fixing people's cars or buying cars and selling them.

Jason Brennan: Sometimes I'd drive them for a while first and then sell them. So it was always something I loved to do. And, you know, getting into, you know, Hot rod stuff is a whole nother story. I did some of that too, but you know, just came naturally to me. So when I got the chance to go to to tech school, to trade school for automotive, I did that.

Jason Brennan: And I really enjoyed that and worked at, got my first job at a Volkswagen dealer, downtown Chicago. It was called Lober motors. There were it was definitely a baptism by fire situation. There were a hundred technicians there. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was a pretty, pretty good experience. And so, and then I eventually after working a couple more jobs after that dealership, [00:05:00] I decided to start my own shop.

Jimmy Lea: Wow. Okay. So timeline wise, you were in the air force, you went to university, then to tech school, then to the Volkswagen dealership with a hundred Right. And bounce, bounce, bounce. And then you start your own shop. So when you start your own shop, what does that look like?

Jason Brennan: Well what should it look like or what did it look like for me?

Jason Brennan: Cause it's two different things for sure.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So let me back up and ask it a little bit differently. Number one, what was the catalyst? That got Jason into opening up a shop.

Jason Brennan: That's a really good question. There's multiple reasons, but I would say that although I did have a good experience working for other people, I saw things happening that I didn't like, or that I thought that could be and should be done better.

Jason Brennan: That was the main thing. Of course, I, I wanted to, to be able to [00:06:00] control my own future and my own income level. So that was part of it. But you know, the main thing was wanted to see the customers and employees, you know, I just thought it could be done better. You know, the customers weren't always getting the quality of repairs and the attention that they deserve.

Jason Brennan: And some of the places I worked, it was more money focused than customer service. Focused in the in the work environments weren't always that great so as I was working there, I thought about different ways that I could that it could be done better and Although I tried to influence change in a positive way in some of those places, you know, they they weren't always Well received so I decided if I wanted to do that.

Jason Brennan: I had to do it on my

Jimmy Lea: own. Wow. So so your Principles your integrity said I want this to be different The only way I can influence it to be different is to start

Jason Brennan: my own shop Yeah, I guess you could say that it probably wasn't the only way now now looking back I know that it wasn't the only way I could have found a place to work that [00:07:00] shared some of the same core values and in things that I had but It was definitely one way to do it So I did it.

Jason Brennan: Yeah,

Jimmy Lea: so you you you strike out on your own you call the tow truck You get your toolbox you tow it to the new location. What is the new? New business look like where did you go?

Jason Brennan: Well I went to Let's get interesting. I kind of left part of this story out. I I was also While I was working for other people I was kind of working two jobs because I would go down to my dad's plumbing shop And I had two tool sets I had one at work and I had one there And I didn't have any lifts or anything, but I would work on his company vans the service vans in the plumbing shop after hours And he would pay me to do that.

Jason Brennan: So there became a space available in the same building as the plumbing shop, two doors down, and that was, that was [00:08:00] where we started. It was in East Hazelcrest, Illinois. So I just rolled my toolbox down to that unit and put it in there, you know? And then, and then when I did finally quit my full time job, I, then I had two tool sets there, so I had a bunch of stuff I had been collecting.

Jason Brennan: And buying you know, used shop equipment and things like that for a couple of years before I started my Shop, so i've been collecting that saving that and then I just opened up and started working on everybody else's cars Yeah

Jimmy Lea: gangbusters. So at what point did you install lifts into your New location i'm assuming you never had lifts at dad's no more

Jason Brennan: shop No, I never did.

Jason Brennan: No, I bought a lift pretty quickly because I realized that was a pretty good Roi, you know pretty good investment, right?

Jimmy Lea: Save your back,

Jason Brennan: too We it was a two bay shop. So we eventually had two lifts in there pretty [00:09:00] small Yeah it's not not very pretty humble beginnings, you know It wasn't very wasn't very well equipped and in those days you could get away with Well, you can get away with that.

Jason Brennan: You couldn't now, but you know, you, you could get away for, I got away without having, even having a scan tool for a while. Oh, wow. So it wasn't, wasn't necessarily the best or easiest way to do it, but you know, when you can't afford one, then you figure something else out. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: So, so here it is. You, you've got your new location.

Jimmy Lea: You've got two lists. It's you, the phone and the computer. At what point do you start adding? People to the the team Adam to the family.

Jason Brennan: What does that look like? Well again what I did Definitely isn't what people should do. But what I did What I did was I I think about it for a year. I I hired him. I hired another technician To help me out.

Jason Brennan: And my wife came in and helped with the bookkeeping part time. So it was a [00:10:00] combination of myself and her. I still didn't have a service advisor that was me. So wasn't very efficient, wasn't a very efficient thing, but that's what we did.

Kent Bullard: What if we told you that you could get quality training and education conveniently and without emptying your pockets?

Kent Bullard: Our gear platform presents great education and resources for automotive shops. Courses led by experts inside and outside our industry, a community of like minded people to. Engage with and a resource library at your fingertips. With a monthly membership, you can gain access to every course we have in the library with the ability to watch wherever and whenever you'd like.

Kent Bullard: The right training is more easily accessed than ever before. For help with improving your business, go to We are the institute.com and take your first course today.

Jason Brennan: And then, and then in 2006 what happened was, so that was my first shop and I rented that and then. And that was in about 2003. So I was there for a few years in 2006, my landlord came and I wasn't smart enough to have [00:11:00] a good lease or anything.

Jason Brennan: I just had like this month to month type of lease. And he came to me one day and said, Hey Jason, we need you to get out of here by two months from now. Sorry, but you know, you have too many cars on the property and it's hard to do snow removal. So we're just letting you know you got two months actually they said a month, but I talked him into two months.

Jason Brennan: So So so anyway I was fortunate enough, blessed enough, really to find a guy who had a building in Lansing, Illinois, where our Lansing store still is, that he wanted to lease out, and he was willing to, he really believed in me, and he really, he was willing to lease. The space and invest in some office infrastructure and stuff, some build some walls basically, and put some tile down and whatever.

Jason Brennan: And then I did some of it myself. So it was about, you know, I think I, I did about half [00:12:00] of that facility upgrade. He did the other half and then we moved everything over there and that's where our Lansing store is today. Nice

Jimmy Lea: And and this store so this property is this a property that you have options to purchase or Is it still leased or?

Jimmy Lea: What's

Jason Brennan: the status there? We did buy it. Yeah, I think it was about 2012 we bought the property finally. So, yeah, so that was a, I think it was a good investment. Oh, for sure,

Jimmy Lea: for sure. So, Lansing, what does Lansing look like?

Jason Brennan: It is a six bay, 3, 800 square foot building, so kind of a tight six bay shop with a waiting room and a small office and a couple bathrooms.

Jason Brennan: We've got an alignment rack in there, a heavier truck rack and then four other Two post hoists and three technicians. And we've got, so we've got three techs. We have a service advisor and a working store manager. So she, she writes service and [00:13:00] manages the store there.

Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. And so you're in this location from 06 to 12, you buy the property in 12.

Jimmy Lea: At what point is it that you look around and decide? I think we can do more

Jason Brennan: you mean as far as more there are more as far as having two stores

Jimmy Lea: i was thinking having two stores but maybe it's even just at lansing.

Jason Brennan: So that's it's good it's a good question it's you know we we had the capacity to do a lot more in our existing store so.

Jason Brennan: Before I, I did a lot of things wrong, but I was smart enough to realize that until I had my first store running the way that it should, I really had no business opening a second shop. So that was I, I, I was really stubborn and I tried to go to seminars and do things and those things did help, but it wasn't really until I joined what was called RL O'Connor at the time, which is now the [00:14:00] Institute.

Jason Brennan: When I joined, when I joined those guys was when I really learned, I learned what I needed to know the business knowledge I needed. In other words, in order to maximize the potential of that shop. And then it still took me several more years, quite a few more years, actually, before I got it nailed down to where I thought I was comfortable opening a second shop.

Jason Brennan: So step one, maximize what I have. Step two was. Open a second store in the, the main indicator that told me when that, when that time was was now when I was ready for it, was that when I went to work, I felt like I really wasn't doing a whole lot, you know, I didn't really need to be at the shop, but I still went to work every day and I showed up and I kind of walked around and talked to everybody, asked them if they needed anything and they usually said no.

Jason Brennan: And the manager was handling everything the, the day to day, the operations. And so I would just kind of felt like. [00:15:00] It was time, you know, I, I needed more, I needed another challenge really is what it is, because I felt like I was going to work and just not doing anything, which is great. It's, it's great that I was able to, that speaks to my employees speaks very highly about my employees, I guess.

Jason Brennan: And I don't know what the word, the right phrase is, but you know, they're just great people and they did what they were supposed to do and they left me with nothing else to do. So I decided it was a good idea to do another one. Yeah,

Jimmy Lea: I think there's a pin to put here that says number one, your employees are people of character, people of integrity.

Jimmy Lea: They're doing a good job. And then the other pin I would give to you to say you put in some pretty good process and procedures that the team could follow and you worked yourself out of a job. Congratulations. All right. I want to go back here to review this timeline again here. So in, you know, six, you're in the new location [00:16:00] and 12, you buy it.

Jimmy Lea: In the meantime, you're going to webinars. You're going to seminars, conferences, trade shows. You're, you're sucking up as much knowledge and information as you possibly can, which is awesome. I applaud you for doing that. Many shops are doing that and many should do that. At what point, what year was it that you said, okay, it's now I need to join RLO?

Jason Brennan: Beginning of, beginning of 2012. So 11 years ago. So right as you were

Jimmy Lea: buying the business, or buying the

Jason Brennan: property. It was actually right before I decided to buy the real estate, yeah. Wow. So it was definitely I definitely waited too long, you know, it really did. So it was 20, 2012, 2012.

Jimmy Lea: So you, you get into some coaching and training, you you've got a guy, you've got a team, you've got an environment around you, a 20 group.[00:17:00]

Jimmy Lea: Others that are masterminding with you Helping you to grow your business At what point is it then from to 12? You you get to the point where you worked yourself out of a job and now you're looking for the next challenge

Jason Brennan: That was 2021 So it was about august 21 is when we open our second shop.

Jimmy Lea: Wow Okay, well, so and there's a lot to be learned.

Jimmy Lea: There's a lot to be put in place There's a lot of things to tweak along the way Could you have done it quicker or was nine years

Jason Brennan: necessary? Frankly, Jimmy, I could have been retired five years ago if I did everything the right way, you know, it's, it's really, I'm 45 now. So I've still got a few years left in me here.

Jason Brennan: I'm not worried or anything, but man, when I think back could have been retired if I did everything right. If, if somebody wants to open a shop, they could have, I could have. Come up with a solid [00:18:00] business plan first, maybe gotten some education first, or at least started it right away. And if I had to go back in time, that's what I do.

Jason Brennan: And I, I probably, well, I definitely never would have opened a store in that two bay shop without the

Jimmy Lea: proper lease in place. Yeah.

Jason Brennan: Well, not at all because I've gone down, I've gone back and done the math and run the numbers. And it was never, I could, I lost money the whole time I was there there. It was never going to work with the two bay, the two bay store in the configuration that it was.

Jason Brennan: It just, it's an unsustainable business. It couldn't cover the overheads. I've never had. It never had the the capacity to cover the overheads. I'm not saying that nobody can do a two bay store, but in my case, it was just some, I never should have done. I should have gone for a bigger building in the first place.

Jason Brennan: So, you know, I would have, I definitely, somebody could, if they want to get this, you know, join a consulting or [00:19:00] 20 group, you know, have a coach start things off the right way with a business plan, a financial forecast, you know, maybe some staff even recruited before they open, if possible, so that they hit the ground running and have the right procedures and processes in place.

Jason Brennan: And then be, you know, being a little more, being a little better, more well capitalized, I should say. Yeah. Having some more money in the bank would have helped. Oh, for

Jimmy Lea: sure. I mean, capital is always king. Cash is king. And that definitely would have helped. So a question for you. Okay. So, so the, the scenario that most of us are in, most of us are working in a shop.

Jimmy Lea: Now we're working in a shop currently. So we're that guy that is in the two bay shop. That's losing money every month. And we don't even know it. What, what, what advice would you give? Okay. That person, that man or that woman who is In the business and just [00:20:00] working like a dog but not making up any

Jason Brennan: ground definitely a very good question and I love to give Advice on that issue because I went through it all I went, you know 80 to 100 hour weeks for years It was ridiculous.

Jason Brennan: I didn't get to spend any time with my family if that's you right now you need to Stop working on cars for a minute or go right in service or whatever you're doing and just start Start research, start getting the education that, the business education that you need, and, and leadership education that you need to run a repair shop right now, because to your point earlier, you could be losing money, but if you don't know, you can't judge your, you can't judge the profitability of your business by how much money is in your checking account, it's a lot more, it's not complicated, but it's, there's a lot more to it than that, so, Thank you.

Jason Brennan: I would say call you know, of course, yeah, maybe I'm a little biased because I've had super great success by being part of the Institute's [00:21:00] groups. That's certainly one place I'd recommend calling, you know, be your own, make your own judgment call there, but I'd call somebody like the Institute and I'd say, Hey, what kind of program do you have?

Jason Brennan: What can you offer me? And they'll kind of take it from there and just go with it. I mean, it might seem like it's, you know, maybe you're broke right now and you don't have the money and that might be what's going through your mind, but you're not, you're just like you just got to do it. Find a way to, find a way to pay for it somehow and get, get the education you need and then start taking the advice.

Jason Brennan: Don't do what I did and be hard headed and join a business group in 2012 and then not take any of the advice for the first five or six years because you're afraid to or whatever other ideas you have in your head that are If you think your situation is different or this won't work for me or whatever, just go with you know, make, make, make solid educated decisions, but get the education and, [00:22:00] and then just start implementing things right away.

Jason Brennan: Don't wait. Until you're, you know, almost out of business like I did or out of business Worse. Yeah, and then start getting some get start getting some family time back It might not happen right away, but it'll happen pretty quick.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's true

Jason Brennan: You know start making more money and start having family time.

Jason Brennan: I mean who doesn't want that?

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, the family needs the family time as much as you need the family time and that the reason we're doing what we're doing is so that we can be with the family so we can have time to spend with those that we love and care about,

Jason Brennan: right? Yeah, so sorry for my long word answer there, Jimmy, but no, in a nutshell, I would say just do it.

Jason Brennan: What do you got to lose? You know, you're already probably losing money if you don't know or if you do know that you're losing money and you're having a hard time paying bills. You got nothing to lose by trying it out. If you keep doing the same thing you're doing, that's not going to work for sure. So just, just go [00:23:00] for it.

Jason Brennan: You got to try something different. Yeah. I

Jimmy Lea: was talking to Ron Haugen the other day, and when he signed up for coaching and training, in fact, he signed up with RLO as well, way back in the day when he was in a tubing shop. Right. And Des Moines, Iowa, Ron Haugen signed up for coaching and training. He says, look, you're either going to help me to, to fly, or I'm going to be bankrupt in three months and I, and that's it, I'm done.

Jason Brennan: Right, exactly. And that, that was a situation I was in too, Jimmy. It's

Jimmy Lea: interesting how similar the stories are because he was on the brink of bankruptcy and he signed the agreement. He signed the contract and he says, you know, this is either going to work or it's not, and if it doesn't, I'm not going to have two nickels to rub together anyway.

Jimmy Lea: So good luck collecting any collections, right? But that's not the point of the story. The point is. He implemented he did what they said and he soared he took off [00:24:00] when he finally sold his business to Joe, I think his was a 17 bay shop there in Des Moines, Iowa phenomenal phenomenal facility and I just think the world of ron.

Jimmy Lea: He's a great great guy

Jason Brennan: I, I know a little bit about him. I never met him, but he seems to be pretty, pretty smart guy. Yeah. You know, his story sounds similar to mine. Just because you're a smart person doesn't mean that you know how to run an auto repair shop. And just because you're good tech doesn't mean you know how to run an auto repair shop.

Jason Brennan: It's a completely different set of rules and a different education you need.

Jimmy Lea: It is. It is. And, and I, I would submit that you are extremely talented as a technician and Ron Hogan, extremely talented as a technician. And what you lacked was, this is the word. It's a big one. It's a dollar 25. It's business acumen, right?

Jimmy Lea: That business acumen of, of running the business. It's a complete different skill set that most shop [00:25:00] owners haven't had any coaching or training in that.

Jason Brennan: I agree. I think a good analogy would be like let's say if you were a carpenter and you know how to use lots of tools, does that mean that you're, you can just go start fixing cars without ever opening a manual or, or, or ever, you know, even, even Ever even, you know, working on a car before, could you just go do that?

Jason Brennan: No, you'd have to go to, you wouldn't necessarily have to go to trade school, but you'd have to get an education from somewhere. And the

Jimmy Lea: school of hard knocks is a pretty good educator as

Jason Brennan: well. So just cause you're a good carpenter doesn't mean you're a good automotive technician. And just cause you're in a good automotive technician doesn't mean you're a good business owner.

Jason Brennan: They're all separate, you know, so I think maybe some of us, including myself in the past, just have a little too big of an ego and we need to realize that there's some things to learn.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, and you know, that's a good point, Jason, because I think in us in the automotive industry, [00:26:00] yes, maybe ego is a part of it.

Jimmy Lea: But i think there's also the fact that that that we work hard and we think if the harder i work the more successful i'm gonna be that's that's our mindset because that's what's worked in the past this is a completely different skill set that once you learn the skill set and you work hard in that set.

Jimmy Lea: Success happens right and i see a lot in the automotive industry a lot of shop owners who aren't afraid to work which is. Business definitely requires work. Oh, yeah, they just don't have the business acumen of business ownership And right. Yeah, I I see it all they

Jason Brennan: don't have the right they don't have the right tools That's what it is.

Jason Brennan: Your knowledge is a tool. It's like another tool in your toolbox. It is You know, replace an alternator with a hammer. Maybe you could, but it should take you forever. You know, [00:27:00] so you need the right tools. You're not using the right tools. It's not going to go very well. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: Oh, amen. That's that's exactly right.

Jimmy Lea: So where you are today, you've got the two shops. Talk about the second shop where you added that in 21. You were basically bored at the first location in Lansing, so you opened one in

Jason Brennan: Indiana? Yes, yeah, we opened one in Hobart, Indiana, and so what that was, the way that deal came about is that a good friend of mine a good friend of mine called me and said, Hey, I know you've been looking, so I put the word out there to everybody I could think of that I wanted to expand.

Jimmy Lea: Okay, hold on. Who are you telling? Who are you telling that you want to expand? Who is this farm that you're starting to plant the seeds with? Who do you tell?

Jason Brennan: Well, basically everybody. My friends, family, relatives, technicians, store manager, tool truck guy, parts store people, parts store reps, other [00:28:00] shop owners I know, realtors.

Jimmy Lea: Everybody okay i thank you okay

Jason Brennan: pretty much everybody i mean it's it wasn't a secret that i was trying to expand so you know somebody called me and said hey i know where this and where there's this shop that's about to close and i you know that wasn't my target shop to purchase i really wanted to buy a business that was.

Jason Brennan: Pretty, pretty, you know, profitable already had good employees already and everything, but I went and looked at it and it it's, it was nice size facility, good equipment they had by the time I met with the guy was already there last week and he was going to like cut it up into storage units or something that he wasn't even going to try to sell the business.

Jason Brennan: He hadn't really thought of it was his answer. I said, why don't you try to sell this place? He goes, well, I hadn't really thought of that. So it was just it was good timing, I guess. So anyway, they were, they were closed for, they were closed for a couple of months before I was able to open it. I [00:29:00] had to do all the, you know, business license stuff and.

Jason Brennan: Getting parts accounts set up and remodeling the waiting room. We put epoxy floors down. Upgraded a couple of pieces of equipment and all that stuff. So got some new computers, et cetera, et cetera. Got the management system going there. So it took a couple of months before we were able to open. But the nice thing was the, the old shop owner, who was a great guy, his name's Keith Sweeney.

Jason Brennan: He's a great guy, ran a really good business there. Treated his customers very well. He knew a couple of the technicians still who had worked there. So he gave me their information. I contacted them. We got both those guys back. They, they wanted to come back. They were, they really never wanted to leave.

Jason Brennan: It was just that the owner had had some health issues. Then he wasn't able to be there for a while and things weren't going the way they should. So they, they had left already, but then they came back. And so I was really fortunate to get two really good texts. They're still there. [00:30:00] And then I ended up getting two more texts.

Jason Brennan: So now we have four texts there. A store manager and a service advisor. That's what's going on there. It's about a 5, 000 square foot, eight bay facility. We bought the real estate, the real estate's got two, two other tenants in it. So that's kind of nice. It helps cover the mortgage. You know, it's a separate thing.

Jason Brennan: If I never recommend making your primary focus real estate, if you're in the auto repair business, but if you can do it and it doesn't take away from anything else, then it's a, sometimes it can be a good deal. Nice.

Jimmy Lea: Congratulations. So is this like a strip mall and you own half of it? And the other half is the other two tenants.

Jason Brennan: No, it's not a strip mall. It's like a, it's a steel building, you know it's an 8, 000 square foot building. We take up 5, 000 square feet. There's a couple other tenants in there. Yeah. So pretty it, it, it didn't really go exactly the way I planned. I'd, I'd hate to know how it [00:31:00] would have turned out if I didn't have a plan.

Jason Brennan: Cause it definitely didn't turn out the way I planned, but now it is now it's going great, but I mean, that thing.

Jimmy Lea: What challenges did you have in it i mean it's basically a business that had shut down two months three months and then came back alive again what challenges were there that you can maybe even shine a light on that somebody in a similar situation can avoid.

Jason Brennan: Yeah, good, good, good question. Well, obviously have a plan, okay. Build a financial forecast ahead of time, have a business plan, have a banker, you know, that you have a good relationship with and find out what's going to be required to get a loan. If you're going to need one something I would have done differently is been a little more clear with my banker on what I was trying to do, because he ended up.

Jason Brennan: He's a good guy and everything. I still do business with him but you know, some of the, some of the details of [00:32:00] the loan weren't what I thought they were going to be. And, and luckily I, I had the cash to be able to pay for things like signage and asphalt and epoxy floors. You know, but I mean, I, I had to put like 150 grand of my own money into the place before I opened it.

Jason Brennan: And then, you know, and then I had to purchase the place and it ended up being a real estate only loan is what happened. So, you know, and I thought that I was going to be able to finance the rest of that. It didn't, it turns out I didn't need to, but I kind of wanted to. So make sure that, make sure you have a good relationship with your bank and that everything's.

Jason Brennan: Crystal clear about what kind of loan you're going to be able to get Because if I didn't have that if I didn't have the money in the bank to spend on that I would have been in a pretty bad situation You know Not being able to change your sign and having a gravel parking lot and having a torn up floor was that wasn't my goal.

Jason Brennan: So Could have still done it, but you know [00:33:00] anyway So it's been

Jimmy Lea: a longer runway is essentially what you're saying there, right? Could have taken

Jason Brennan: some time before you had it I don't recommend opening a shop on a shoestring budget and not having, you don't have to build the Taj Mahal, have the equipment. You got to have good working equipment and you have to have somewhat of a, you want to have the image that portrays the type of work that you do.

Jason Brennan: So, if you have like an old beat up sign with the wrong name on it that you just taped a banner over the top of and if you think you should have a gravel parking lot because it looks more professional and you just can't. So it's gravel. I mean, not saying that people can't do that. That's kind of what I had to do with my first store.

Jason Brennan: I didn't want to repeat that, though. You're at the

Jimmy Lea: second location. You've put some money into it. You got the technicians to come back. This is the larger facility, 2021. What I find interesting is that you've said it a couple times. You've got to have a plan. [00:34:00] You've got to have a plan. You've got to have a plan The interesting thing is you had a plan, but it changed Right what resulted wasn't the original plan So I find that interesting that you're saying have a plan but be flexible because it's going to change

Jason Brennan: That's exactly what i'm saying things are gonna things are never going to go 100 percent the way you plan But at least if you have a plan then then you got something to start with and then maybe have some backup plans.

Jason Brennan: So have a backup plan for financing, maybe talk to two banks or three banks, just in case something's not going right. And you're not beholden to this one loan because that's the only one you talk to. Maybe another thing that went wrong was I had recruited and hired a store manager. To start before we opened and he gave me a three days notice that he wasn't starting so my backup plan should have been to Maybe have interviewed some more people and [00:35:00] let them know that hey, we'll let you know.

Jason Brennan: We're not We, we, or maybe told them, Hey, we, we did, we did choose somebody, but we still want to stay in touch so that maybe I could have called one of them. But instead of doing that, I I knew better, but I, I didn't didn't do that. I just had banked on this one guy starting. And then it ended up being me Yeah,

Jimmy Lea: build the bench.

Jimmy Lea: That's what we'll call that build the bench so you can call the next

Jason Brennan: batter up, right? So, you know have maybe have a backup plan in case the employee or employees that you think are going to show up to work Don't show up. so You know, that's something that I would have done differently other than that.

Jason Brennan: I mean, you know It sometimes can take a while to find the right employees. We went through two store managers before we had the right store manager who is there now, and he's doing great. And just, just to, just to [00:36:00] point out how big of a difference a store manager can make. We had great technicians, had the wrong, wrong people in there.

Jason Brennan: They weren't bad people. They just weren't the right fit. And. The first two store managers, you know the shop sales when I bought it. We're roughly around 30 grand a month That's what the old shop owner was doing average 30 grand a month for like three years running pretty low for a eight bay shop so that's where kind of where our starting point was and I think by by March of this year with the combination of myself and the other two managers that I had there We're still only doing, you know, 75 K 80 K months at best.

Jason Brennan: And then when I, when I finally hired the guy who I have in there now, it almost immediately rocketed up to one 30 to one 70 K months. So with, with, [00:37:00] with no other changes, same marketing. Same tax. Well, we did add some tax, but that's cause we, cause when I hired him, we needed to, you know, but same, same facility, same location, same marketing, same equipment, same everything except for the store manager,

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Jimmy Lea: choose the right one? Wow. And what I just heard you say, Jason, was That the shop had operated at a certain level for years at least three years that you know about When you were able to purchase it you were able to double the monthly billing

Jason Brennan: we were yeah We were and so you you

Jimmy Lea: you did.

Jimmy Lea: Well, I mean that's That's okay. That's good. I'm surprised that they were alive at 30k a month. That, that's, that's a, that's tight budget. Super

Jason Brennan: tight. I wonder that my, I wonder how they did that myself. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And then when you got the right manager and the right culture in there, man, immediately you doubled it again.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah,

Jason Brennan: more than doubled.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Phenomenal. Congratulations. So now, now. Now my question is, I mean this is where you are, this is what it looks like today, what is the future? What's your next 3 years, 5 years, 10 years, what, what [00:39:00] does your future look

Jason Brennan: like, Jason? Well, we my plan 10 stores by 2030 or sooner so that's, that's the, the longer term plan.

Jason Brennan: And the shorter term plan is we are, we are we're going to be putting on a third store in another one in Northwest Indiana pretty soon, either end of this month or beginning of next month. So that's, that's my kind of immediate thing I'm working on right now. bUt you know, got to stay focused on keeping, keeping the wheels on the bus, so to speak with everything else that's going on too, so.

Jason Brennan: I, when the same thing happened to me in my second shop as, as happened in my first shop. I, about a few months ago, found myself, maybe even more than a few months ago, I, I found myself going to work and not necessarily having a bunch of stuff to do. I did some facility repairs and maintenance because I love doing that still.

Jason Brennan: Still not afraid to [00:40:00] get dirty. I like to work with my hands. I probably should pay people to do it, but I just like it. So I came in there and like found things to fix and like outlets to move around or whatever the guys needed equipment repaired in Lansing. So I went back there and repaired equipment and then realized I never made any kind of maintenance checklist after I quit going there every day.

Jason Brennan: So a bunch of equipment fell apart and we ended up ordering new stuff and repairing it. And then we made a procedure for that. So, but anyway, my point was, I, I kind of got to the same point. I wasn't, I was going to work and I really didn't need to be there because the stuff I was doing I could do for my home office.

Jason Brennan: It was just, you know, all desk work and stuff. So then I, you got bored again, I guess, you know, or I just needed more. I wasn't challenged enough. I wasn't bored. That's not the right, but I wasn't challenged enough. So how

Jimmy Lea: did you find this third location? Did you, did you put the word out again to everybody you knew that said, Hey, [00:41:00] I'm looking to

Jason Brennan: add the words always out.

Jason Brennan: Yeah, but, but that's not how I found this one. It was, I probably, and you know, it's funny on that topic. I make new Google drive folders for each potential acquisition to put all the information about it in. And I just happened to look in there when I made the folder for this one and there were 19 other folders in there.

Jason Brennan: So. To, to get this deal to happen, I, I passed 19 other deals. Interesting. Because, because not everything, not every deal is the right one, you know? Yes. So, a lot of them aren't the right one, but luckily there's a lot of them out there. So this one I just, you know, it was random. I was on Facebook Marketplace looking at Camaros because I have a 79 Camaro and I wanted to see what, around what it might be worth.

Jason Brennan: So, I found one on there, and I contacted the owner of it, and, you know, it was real nice, you know, nicely restored. I'm trying to make a decision whether to restore this one I have or [00:42:00] not, and found out how much he was selling it for. I said, okay, thanks for the info, and then I looked at his profile, and he's an auto repair shop owner.

Jason Brennan: So I started talking to him and said, Hey, so you own an hour repair shop. That's cool. And you're, you're in the market and kind of in a similar market to me. I'd love to have a shop in crown point. What's your exit strategy. Next thing you know, I was going over there looking at the shop and we're talking and it just so happens that he was ready to retire like right now.

Jason Brennan: If he could retire yesterday, he would have. So. Facebook

Jimmy Lea: marketplace, you found a shop on Facebook marketplace pretty much My wife will be so proud of you. She is a facebook marketplace queen. She buys and sells all the time It's it's super awesome. Congratulations

Jason Brennan: With the Camaro. Yeah. I never thought of it that way, but yeah, I guess you're right.

Jason Brennan: I found a shop on Facebook marketplace.

Jimmy Lea: That's [00:43:00] wild. Absolutely. So these other 19 deals that you passed up on, and maybe the timing isn't right. Maybe some of them need some more time to simmer and you, do you keep coming back and checking on them? Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Brennan: So what does that look like for you? So that's a really good question.

Jason Brennan: So I've got three people, three shops that I really love to acquire. I like their people. They have, they have great people, great cultures, been in business a long time, doing great numbers, but they're just not ready to retire yet. So those are guys who I approached. And, you know, just whether I walked in or called him or met him at a one of the guys that met him at a Jasper breakfast networking thing or something.

Jason Brennan: And, you know, I kind of could I figured they, they, they look like they're probably in their fifties or sixties, you know, somewhere in that range. So I, I just approached him. And kind of had an exit strategy conversation and they weren't ready, but we're having ongoing conversations. [00:44:00] So those guys, I just call them and just talk to them every once in a while, see how it's going and make sure that I'm on their first phone call when they decide they're ready to retire.

Jason Brennan: So I have those. Yeah. And then, and who knows when that'll happen there. One that fell through. Is an 83 year old guy who I spent, you know, I, I made a mistake by, by not not looking at multiple deals at once. I should have been when, when I decided just recently here, when I decided to about six months ago, when I decided to get more aggressive again, with looking for a third shop, I focused on this one and I figured, yeah, for sure, this guy's going to sell this thing.

Jason Brennan: He's 83. Why would he want to keep going here all the time? And I knew his store manager and she said, you know, we had some conversations. I kind of, I coached her a little bit. She was having problems with the shop and I just gave her some free advice, phone conversations here and there. And the things that I told her to do helped, helped out [00:45:00] and they went from losing money to making a little money.

Jason Brennan: So I recommended that she talked the owner into their shop joining. The Institute, which at the time was still our low training. And they never did. iNstead they she, she connected me with the owner, this 83 year old guy and his wife, real nice people, real nice family business. But they that's still an ongoing conversation too, but he decided to still just keep, you know, keep running the place at the end of the day.

Jason Brennan: Price just wasn't right. It was the amount of profit that they're making would have warranted like a. Maybe a 600, 000 sale price and he wanted 4 million bucks. So

Jimmy Lea: wow. Yeah The same ball field.

Jason Brennan: No, so I mean, you know a lot of these conversations if if the owner has not already Looked [00:46:00] into selling their business.

Jason Brennan: They they don't know how to do a business valuation Even just a seat of the pants one. They just don't know They don't know how it all works, so if you ask them how much they want, they usually say, used to, seems like they used to say a million dollars all the time, but now they're saying like three or four million, so I guess that's inflation.

Jason Brennan: Yeah. But and maybe some of them are worth that much, you know, and some of them, but a lot of them aren't, you know. That was the deal with that one. So that's another example. The other ones that are not going to be ongoing conversations anymore are either just too small to support a manager's salary.

Jason Brennan: The amount that I would want to pay a manager, they're too small to support that manager's salary. Or they weren't in the location. I didn't like the location. Or they were just some poor old guy, unfortunately, with like, you know, great guy maybe, but he'd lost [00:47:00] all his employees. Okay Maybe it didn't keep up.

Jason Brennan: There's a lot of those out there if the owner doesn't keep up with You know modern day technician wages and benefits and things that they should then They may lose their technicians. Oh, yeah, that's what's happened to quite a few of these guys. And so I met with quite a few older gentlemen who were great technicians and ran a shop at Unfortunately, kind of like a zero net after their salary for years and years, it was kind of just a job to them.

Jason Brennan: And then the inflation crept up on them and they couldn't afford to pay their tax more, or they thought they couldn't because they didn't know how to do it, how to structure it right. And then they were trying to sell a facility. Like, you know, a four or a six Bay, most of them were four or three Bay shops with just the owner.

Jason Brennan: And that's it. And then, you know, that's not the time to sell, by the way, if you're going to sell your business, your business is going to sell, I forget who said this, but [00:48:00] it was perfectly true. Your business is going to sell someday, whether it's to your kids, whether it's to one of your employees. Whether it's to an auction house, you know people buying all your stuff at auction So everybody needs to have an exit strategy and these guys had no exit strategy and sometimes that works out Okay, like the the one that I mentioned on facebook, you know, he he didn't really have an exit strategy But he's smart enough to know that he's turning 60 and he needs to do it And he and he also was was realistic about how much it was worth too.

Jason Brennan: Yeah

Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's that's an interesting conversation to have

Jason Brennan: with people Yeah. If you have, you know, if you're a shop owner, that's 60 years old, you don't know how much longer you have in this area. I hate to be, to sound grim, but you just, nobody does. Yeah. So, but especially as you get older, if you don't have an exit strategy, then what's going to happen?

Jason Brennan: You know, it's don't wait till it's not up to you anymore. What happens? Oh yeah. [00:49:00] That's what happened to some of these guys. So yeah, then the value just isn't there for someone like me to buy it because it's basically just a facility.

Jimmy Lea: Well, then it becomes a real estate deal not a business

Jason Brennan: deal. It's just real estate and some and some Maybe decent equipment and that's it and and you're

Jimmy Lea: not in it for the real Well, you are in it for the real estate because you do want real estate, but you you you are wanting to buy a business Right

Jason Brennan: that has real estate, right?

Jason Brennan: And it's not that those places you know if somebody had like a six bay or larger shop that they wanted to sell and it was just a facility and maybe they just kind of Maybe they maybe they made enough money to retire and they just didn't want to deal with the hassles of employees anymore and they sort of let it downsize itself and Now it's a facility and it's got equipment and still got a good working phone number with customer base That's that's still worth something but it's definitely not worth it.

Jason Brennan: It's probably not worth a million bucks Yeah, unless the real estate's worth a million bucks, [00:50:00] but you know real estate aside the business is worth At that point is probably just worth whatever the equipment's worth, honestly, maybe a little

Jimmy Lea: more. Yeah, it's worth much less than it could have been. So you mentioned something interesting and I want to ask you this question.

Jimmy Lea: When is the perfect time to sell your business? What can you do as a business owner to position your business to be in that perfect position to be ready to be for sale? When is the perfect time?

Jason Brennan: Hmm, well, I've never sold one, so I don't know. I don't know if I'm qualified to answer, but if, but if I had to answer that, I would say that the best time to come up with an exit strategy is as soon as you get your business operating profitably, the way that it should be working on that first, you know, because you're going to retire someday.

Jason Brennan: So, but, but when you retire, you want it to be as profitable as it can be so that you can get the most out of it that you can, when you retire, [00:51:00] whether you own or finance it to your. Store manager, whether you sell to another company or, you know, somebody like me, or even a private equity company, whoever work on getting the place profitable and well running first.

Jason Brennan: And then I don't see a reason to wait a whole lot longer after that to figure it out. Once you have that done, then why not just start thinking about it? You don't have to plan it overnight, but. Having some kind of plan, just like you need a plan to open a shop. You need a plan for what you're going to do when it's time to retire.

Jason Brennan: You could have a health problem that pops up on you. You could have you know, you could just decide you're tired of it and you're older and you just want to retire. Whatever the reason is, if you have a plan ahead of time. The earlier, the better, because you don't know when you may think you're going to work till you're 65 83, like this guy that still doesn't want to sell me his shop, but you know, you know, anything could happen [00:52:00] tomorrow.

Jason Brennan: So having an exit strategy, I think the time is as early as possible, but it may change over the years. At least you have a plan.

Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I like that you always say that to have a plan, because that plan, while it could change, it definitely gives you some direction and some guidelines and some bumpers to to make sure you're going down the right path.

Jason Brennan: Right,

Jason Brennan: E exactly. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: Nice, nice. So if you were to have the ability of a of two soup cans and a string, and you could talk to your. Younger self, what advice would you give yourself? Maybe it's the advice before going into the two bay shop. Maybe it's advice before jumping into the the 3, 800 square feet.

Jimmy Lea: Maybe it's advice before you jump into the 5, 000 square foot, 8, 000 square foot building. Who would you? Grab that soup can and give [00:53:00] advice to first.

Jason Brennan: Who would I give advice to first? I, I'd give advice to the, to the Jason from, you know, 2003. I'd tell him, Hey, you know, you, you don't really have a business education here.

Jason Brennan: You don't have a plan. Hate to break it to you, but you're not as smart as you think you are. And so you're not Superman even though you think you're so, so. Read some books about the automotive repair business and talk to some people, network with some people, maybe find an industry association and learn more about running a business.

Jason Brennan: Maybe even try to work your way up into management at one of the places you work. You know, put, put your, maybe, maybe put your toolbox away for a while and write service. And manage a store first so you can learn the ins and outs of it probably would have been smart I would say also don't go don't go into it under [00:54:00] capitalized Have money in the bank first, you know if you need to work for a little longer and save up have money in the bank and then Find a group of people in the auto repair business who are doing the same thing as you are And if you want to be successful at achieving a goal Find other people that have already achieved that goal and ask them how they did it and then do it Don't try to reinvent the wheel, you know, that, that's, that's the beauty of, of these 20 groups, I guess that's what we're calling them.

Jason Brennan: I don't know. 20 groups, like the gear performance group, you know, it it's, there's, there's 19 other shop owners in there that I can talk to and say, Hey, you know, this happened. What, what did you do when that happened? Did this happen to anybody else? And chances are the answer is yes. And here's what I did to get around that problem.

Jason Brennan: So if I could have, if I could talk to my former self, it'd be like from, from the start, you know, years ago, those are the things that I would the [00:55:00] main things I would have done differently, find industry experts and colleagues to talk to so that you're not repeating the same mistakes they did find role models and leaders in the industry, and you do what they're doing, you know, succeed.

Jason Brennan: You become successful. One, one good way, it's not the only way, but one good way to become successful is doing whatever successful people are doing.

Jimmy Lea: I totally agree with that. Totally agree with that. That's phenomenal advice. Had we a couple of soup cans in a string, you could have gone back to your younger self and given that advice.

Jimmy Lea: That's that sound advice. Get the business acumen, get the business chops. And then find yourself that 20 group, that group of like minded individuals that

Jason Brennan: can assist you. At least a coach, you know, maybe I wasn't a candidate for a 20 group yet, but I, but I could have could have found somebody who I could talk to and [00:56:00] they, and they would lead me in the right direction.

Jason Brennan: Someone in the automotive industry. That's phenomenal. Yeah, I wish I knew John Woffler in 2003. That guy was smart, or he is smart, I should say. Yeah, he still is. He's now retired, but man, I, I probably, I probably gave him a little bit too much of a hard time, too much of a hard time. Yeah.

Jimmy Lea: I'm sure you contributed to some of his gray

Jason Brennan: hair.

Jason Brennan: I probably did. I never asked him. I'm going to call him and ask him, well, you know, Hey, did you ever. Did you ever think about just kicking me out of the group or anything? Cause I was one of those stubborn guys that just wouldn't listen to, I would listen to advice and then I wouldn't do it. And I'd make up some kind of excuse and of why that situation didn't apply to me or something like that.

Jason Brennan: And it, it really set me back like. Five or six years doing that. Mm hmm,

Jimmy Lea: Jason. You're phenomenal, man. Thank you very much for spending some time with me [00:57:00] today It's good to know a little bit more about you and it's about your background and Boy Scouts I didn't know you were an Eagle Scout. That's very

Jason Brennan: cool, man.

Jason Brennan: Definitely definitely a junior leadership training. Oh, yeah I did

Jimmy Lea: I was on staff for three years with junior leadership training

Jason Brennan: I did, I did staff for one year of that. Yeah, it was, it was a really cool program. I think they still have something similar in it. It it was definitely a that was my first exposure to any kind of real leadership tactics or, you know, methodology, if you will.

Jason Brennan: And it was pretty cool. I still know some of those guys, you know, if I think back when I got, you know, I don't know anybody in that program that didn't become extremely successful. That

Jimmy Lea: would be interesting. I, I, I can't even say that I know a single guy that was in my junior leadership training. I do know all the guys that were in my troupe growing up.[00:58:00]

Jimmy Lea: And yeah, I, I, many of them are retired already and enjoying a leisurely life. Yeah. Congratulations. Yeah. That's phenomenal. Yeah. Scouting's a

Jason Brennan: great program. Yeah. We'll have to start doing the left hand handshake from now on or something.

Jimmy Lea: I love it. The Boy Scout handshake. The handshake of friendship.

Kent Bullard: That's it for this one. This episode was brought to you by Gear4Shops. com, the GearHeads Network, and the Institute. For a better business, a better life, and a better industry, visit WeAreTheInstitute. com. Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you in the next one.