Here’s Why We Don’t Know What True Health Really Is: Find Out How To Create It Now

Welcome to another exciting and informative episode of The Hormone Prescription Podcast, specifically designed for midlife women! In today's episode, we are joined by the insightful and experienced Dr. Anoop Kumar. Dr. Kumar will discuss why we don't know what true health is, and most importantly, how we can create it for ourselves.
  
With a background in clinical medicine and mind-body integration, Dr. Kumar is a leading voice in the field of health and healthcare transformation. His unique perspective on health invites us to explore and redefine our understanding of wellbeing in a holistic manner.
  
During the podcast, Dr. Kumar explores:

* The concept of health as a holistic experience, encompassing physical, emotional, and spiritual wellbeing
* How the healthcare industry often focuses on the physical body, neglecting other crucial aspects of health
* The importance of integrating mind-body perspectives for a comprehensive understanding of human nature and unlocking true healing potential
  
Listeners will leave this episode feeling inspired and armed with practical tips for incorporating mind-body integrative approaches into their own health journeys.

Don't forget to subscribe to The Hormone Prescription Podcast for more valuable insights on health and wellbeing! 

 

Speaker 1 (00:00):

“Health is the expression of human potential.”  - Dr. Anoop Kumar. Find out in this episode why we don't know what health truly is and how to create it.

Speaker 2 (00:12):

So the big question is, how do women over 40 like us, keep weight off, have great energy, balance our hormones in our moods, feel sexy and confident, and master midlife? If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself Again. As an ob-gyn, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates our rock solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy after 40, in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue, now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results, and to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges. Join me for tangible, natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to the Hormone Prescription Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:06):

Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. Thank you so much for joining me today. My guest today, Dr. Anoop Kumar, is going to share some really progressive perspectives on health that really are essential to creating health. I mean, first off, most of us don't really know what true health is. We know what treating disease is, and we know what controlling disease is, but do you really know what true health is or how to create it? Well, Dr. Kumar does, and he's gonna share that with you today. He's gonna help you understand what's missing from your approach, what you're not considering, what you might not have thought of. And he has a very unique perspective and some very inspirational stories. And he's going to talk about how health is the expression of human potential without addressing that question directly.

Speaker 1 (02:00):

That's actually a quote I got from him. But I do agree that health is the expression of human potential. So see if you can read between the lines and give your own explanation of how health is the expression of human potential. After you give a listen and share your thoughts with us on social media, you can find me at Kyrin Dunston MD on Instagram and Facebook. I look forward to communicating with you. So I'll let you know a little bit about Dr. Kumar and then we'll get started. He is a leading voice for health and healthcare transformation, bringing clarity to the full spectrum of clinical medicine, MINDBODY integration and human potential. He is co-founder of Health Revolution, a company building a complete ecosystem for healing, beginning with the Health Jumpstart course and the Healing Is Possible podcast. He offers regular webinars featuring healing meditations and conversations on Big Picture Health. Dr. Kumar grew up experimenting with the philosophy of non-duality, eventually finding ways to integrate its comprehensive perspective of human nature with biomedical science. He is board certified in emergency medicine and holds a master's degree in management with a focus in health leadership. He is the author of Michelangelo's Medicine, and is this a dream? As well as of numerous articles, integrating mind body perspectives. Please help me welcome Dr. Anup Kumar to the show.

Speaker 3 (03:25):

Thank you. It's great to be here with you, Kyrin.

Speaker 1 (03:28):

So I think this will be an interesting conversation starting with, and maybe you can just start talking about this. Here's why we don't know what health truly is. I mean, I guess I'll first say that I think I know what health is, but I thought that, you know, I was learning how to help people create actual health when I went to medical school. Yeah. I wanted to help women to the best of my ability. So I looked around at all the options for the toolboxes that I could learn about and become educated in. And I said, oh, getting my MD medical doctorate will give me the biggest toolbox. Yes. So that's why I got my MD only to discover after over a decade of practicing that I probably didn't really know what health was when my own health failed. Yeah. So what's going on here?

Speaker 3 (04:16):

Well, so I would agree with you. When I went to medical school, I also saw that the way we're looking at human being is incomplete. I had a lot of background in philosophy and spirituality growing up. My parents were really heavily into that. So that was, in a way, my first education. My primary education was in those philosophical perspectives that I had been experimenting with in my life. And so, by the time I got to medical school and you know, we learned our anatomy and physiology and biochemistry and so on, I saw that we were learning a lot about a little, you know what I mean? So it's like we're basically taking the human being and looking at the human being through a relatively narrow lens and then studying that lens intensely. So there's a whole lot of knowledge, but it's about a narrow spectrum of being human.

Speaker 3 (04:58):

And I'll give you an example of let's say four or five things that I think limit our understanding of what health is. Let me first say that you mentioned that, you know, you feel like you know what health is. I think all of us know to some extent, so I'm not saying we have no idea. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, but I'm just saying the outer limits of what health could be, health after all, comes from the word whole. So what does it mean to be whole? What does it mean to be complete? In other words, what is the potential of a human being? Right? Like, what is the possibility for a human being? I think these are the questions that we, of course don't ask in healthcare, because the healthcare focus is really studying disease. So you and I study anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, embryology, and so on.

Speaker 3 (05:37):

And at some point we turn to pathology, pathophysiology. And it's like after that there's no turning back. Most of what you learn, even through continuing medical education, is about pathophysiology, diagnostic frameworks, and then treatments for those diagnostics for those diagnoses. So I think the bend, the tendency of health, healthcare, and research in general kind of assumes that we know, yes, this is the human being anatomy and physiology, but now what's going wrong is where the research is. So I think that that general direction needs to be broadened so that we ask broader questions about health and human potential. And lemme just give you a few examples of that. Number one, what we consider as, let's say, the bedrock of clinical medicine is human anatomy, right? We define the human being in a particular way, and it's based on that map of the human being that we decide what's going well, what's not going well, and we make our diagnosing treatments.

Speaker 3 (06:32):

But in fact, a human body is not the same thing as a human being. And we know that because you can look at a living human being and you can look at a body that that is dead. And we know the two are different. There's something fundamentally different about them. And yet, when we try to model a human being, what we do is strictly talk about the body. So at some point centuries ago, we made the decision that when we modeled the human being, human anatomy, we're not gonna look at mind. We're not gonna look at subtler processes of the human being that have been documented in other cultures, such as in Ayurveda or in traditional Chinese medicine or in yoga. We don't look at chakras, we don't look at meridians. None of that stuff has a place in our model of anatomy. We simply look at physical structures, right?

Speaker 3 (07:13):

And to me, like this should be on the front page of the New York Times, that in different cultures, they literally have different models of anatomy for the same species. We're all the same species, as far as I know. And yet, despite that fact, different cultures have different models of anatomy, and we don't know what to do about it, and we ignore it. We don't even talk about it. We just say, well, that stuff doesn't make sense, or we don't get it. Or it's not important, despite the fact that based on your model, your diagnosis is made and your treatment is made. So if our models are incomplete, then naturally it follows that our diagnoses and our treatments are incomplete. Right? So I think there's a huge lack of curiosity in medicine as to, Hey, why don't we understand that? Rather than just brushing it off saying, why don't we understand it?

Speaker 3 (07:56):

How can we understand it? Well, how, what do we have to augment in our knowledge not to throw away what we know, but to augment what we know and include this other perspective? Right? So that's point number one is if you don't know the human being completely, if you don't model the human being completely, then we are not going to know what health is. We can only gonna know partial approaches, which is why we have a disease-based care, disease-based approach to health in mm-hmm <affirmative> in what we call modern medicine. Second example, and this will surprise most physicians, most scientists, most people who have surprised science, who have studied science, is that we don't know what the body's fundamentally made of. All right? So just hear me out on this one. So when, when we were kids, we learned to play with those little solid balls that were atoms, and we connected them with the sticks, the molecular model kits, and we put them all together and we said, wow, this is what we are.

Speaker 3 (08:44):

You put a bunch of this together and, and that's how you get Karen, and that's how you get a new, and that's how you get everybody, right? And what's crazy is that after fourth grade or so, which is some fourth or fifth grade, whenever we did that first, or heard about that first, our understanding of what we're made of never advanced. So you can go to high school, you can go to graduate school, you can go to medical school, you can do fellowship, you can do C M E, and what we are made of that understanding never advances. It's still, yeah, a bunch of little balls and sticks, right? Which is mind boggling. <Laugh>, right? <Laugh> like what, what we, what we, it's, it's laughable what you think about, but it's true. What we, what we do understand is the complexity of how they interact.

Speaker 3 (09:25):

So we learn more about molecular models and how they interface and intracellular communication, but when you go down to the bottom, it still balls and sticks. It never went beyond fourth grade or fifth grade, right? Right. And the thing is, if you ask somebody, if you ask a doctor, ask a scientist what a human body is made of, we'll say, well, it's made of organs. What's that made of? It's made of tissues. What's that made of? It's made of cells. Then you get down to macromolecules and then molecules, then you get to atoms, subatomic particles, and finally you get to the smallest bits of matter that we know, which are called elementary particles. And you know what's crazy, Karen? After that, everybody stops asking questions. It's like, until then we always act, what's that made of? But what's that made of? But what's that made of?

Speaker 3 (10:08):

But once you get to elementary particles, it's like the room goes dark, right? Right. And that's because then you get into quantum physics and you get into a different kind of topic. And in medical school, you know, we don't touch that stuff. So it's, the answers get too difficult for us to understand. I mean, even, even among physicists, there's so much interpretation as to what quantum physics is actually telling us. That's still up in the air as to what it's actually suggesting about life and about being alive and about human beings. So nevermind in medicine, we don't even go near that stuff. So we just say, you know what? Balls and sticks good enough for me, we're done. Right? But in fact, we know that when we get into that, that these tiny particles that the body is constituted from are actually local vibrations in non-local fields of energy.

Speaker 3 (10:54):

And to that, we say, what I don't know what to do about that. That's not in my framework. That's not in the philosophy. I was taught by the way, we were all taught philosophy. We just, we weren't taught, we weren't told we were taught philosophy, right? And so we don't ask that question, but that's the truth. At a fundamental level, we do not know what the human body is made of. And that should be shocking to most people because the idea is that in medicine we know so much. But even such a fundamental question, we don't know. And for the most part, we don't think it's important because we believe all the stuff is subatomic, atomic, and on beyond that. But I think there's a clear link, a very distinct link between the fact that we don't know the fundamental nature of the body. And we also see ourselves completely, the two are very linked.

Speaker 3 (11:37):

Let me keep moving here. Point number three as to why, you know, we don't know what health is, is we don't know what the mind is. So neither do we know what the body is fundamentally made of, but the mind itself is not an object of inquiry in medicine, right? You and I know that biomedical science is based on the idea that subatomic particles and elementary particles are primary. They're fundamental. And that's what we need to know about and their interactions. And we can derive all understanding of health disease treatment from that. That's the idea. Nowhere in that picture is mine. And if you ask somebody, well, where does it go? Where does this idea of mind go? How can we fit that into your model of anatomy? What we say is, well, it's this little poofy cloud that comes out of the brain, right?

Speaker 3 (12:20):

We all learn that when we're watching cartoons, right? When it's like loony tunes or the somebody's chasing somebody else and they hit 'em in the head and see the circles and the stars, where you see the puff of clouds, that's like a thought it, we're basically teaching philosophy. We're basically saying that it is the brain that creates thoughts or creates this little cloud that we call the mind. But of course, that's a philosophical opinion. It's not a scientific fact. And there are ways to look into that that can actually suggest even other ideas. Like for example, the brain itself could be a representation, a mental representation. That's just another philosophical perspective that is still entirely consistent with science. What gets me Kiran is that despite the fact that mind is not really the domain of biomedical science, despite the fact that we don't know what the mind is, and there's nothing like the encyclopedias on mine that exist in other cultures in biomedical science, despite that we have the audacity to diagnose mental illness and talk about mental health at length.

Speaker 3 (13:21):

And I think we really go wrong here. We tend to conflate suffering and confusion and difficulty with something like a disease. And then what we try to do is map that to neurotransmitters. And then we have this whole, you know, serotonin, serotonin hypothesis, dopamine hypothesis, and so on. I'm not denying that there are correlations between serotonin and dopamine and mental states, but to say that those are primary or going via the brain and via neurotransmitters is the way to address mind and the health of the mind is again, I think a mistake and a limitation. And I'll just touch on one more point. So we've touched on some critical things. Number one is that we don't really study health, we more study disease. Number two, we don't understand what the body's fundamentally made of Number three, we don't know what the mind is. Number four is that there are people healing from all kinds of diseases all around us, and we don't talk about it, or we don't print it in journals, right?

Speaker 3 (14:17):

We don't write these up. And yeah, I think you and I both know that cuz we're both kind of operate in that field. I've interviewed so many people for my healing as possible podcast who have healed from everything that you're not supposed to heal from, including rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, advanced cancer, severe heart disease that was supposed to get bypass surgery and on and on and on. Severe diabetes type two diabetes, but severe type two diabetes. And so if that's the case, if people are healing from all of these conditions, then why is it that a lot of us don't know about it? Why is it that we doctors don't really know about it? Well that's, that's because number one, people don't like to talk about it because there's so much stigma around saying, well, that's unscientific, or there's no real evidence for that. But what happens is this is the self-fulfilling prophecy because we don't write up the case studies, we don't publish them nearly to the extent that they're happening.

Speaker 3 (15:08):

And then we turn around and call them anecdotal and we say, oh, it's a, it's a unique or it's a miracle, or it's by chance. But we're kind of making that happen because we're not talking about it and we're not writing it up. And what I realized that really blew my mind is that because we are not talking about these, what's happening is that our prognosis are really inaccurate, right? The denominator of all the cases we're looking at is insufficient, because included in that denominator is not all the cases of healing that are happening by means that are outside of medicine. So that's another reason we don't know what health is. And finally, I would say the biggest one is that we have confused complimentary medicine and conventional medicine, right? This is the biggest one. And I would ask everybody to really focus on this cuz this is the most powerful one.

Speaker 3 (15:56):

I think we tend to believe that everything other than what we call modern medicine is complimentary medicine, right? So traditional Chinese medicine, ida, yoga, meditation, lifestyle changes, all of this is complimentary medicine. And we believe that modern medicine is, is conventional medicine. And by that we mean generally in terms of treatment, it's pills and procedures, it's pills and surgeries are the predominant or IV medications are the predominant medicine in conventional medicine, or rather in modern medicine. And I think we have entirely inverted that we've gotten it completely backwards, right? And, and here's why. The real complimentary medicine is modern medicine, because it's supposed to be used as and when the person is getting sick or they need some intervention. Whereas all of these other systems are designed to sustain and enhance life, right? Complimentary medicine is by definition that which is complimentary. If you take away pills and surgeries, for most people, they're gonna be okay.

Speaker 3 (16:55):

They're at least going to live. And many will do quite fine without that. But if you take away what is primary nutrition, movement, connection rest from people, a human being can't live. That's the fundamental sustenance that human beings have lived on for millennia since we've been here. Right? So that is the true conventional medicine by convention, nutrition, movement, connection, and rest. What I call the four engines. Activating these four engines is what facilitates health and healing period for millennia. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, that is conventional medicine. Complimentary medicine is that which we can do without but can enhance life. And that is the modern medical system. So there's this complete inversion of terminology that has it backwards. So people tend to use the medical system as primary medicine, and that's a mistake. That's when we start to have problems. That's when we have diseases that can't be cured and that linger forever.

Speaker 3 (17:47):

Whereas to use it appropriately is to use it as needed when things come up as a compliment to the four engines of nutrition, movement, connection, arrest. So I say, you know, I'm emergency medicine, I work as an ER doc, I was working on the front lines during the pandemic. Emergency medicine is like bread and butter, allopathy and nothing else, right? It's, it's hardcore allopathy, hardcore biomedical science. And I say, right by virtue of that, I'm a complimentary medicine doctor, okay? Because if you use me as primary medicine, that's a problem. And the difference between me and primary care, of course there is a difference. But it's the same ideology, it's the same biomedical science, it's the same philosophy. And it's not a philosophy and a science that is suited for everyday care and sustenance. It's suited as a compliment to nutrition, movement, connection, and rest. So these are, okay, I've talked a lot. I've given you a few big points here as to why we don't know what health is.

Speaker 1 (18:46):

All right? So I know everybody listening is a little overwhelmed right now because a lot of these concepts are really new to them, and you had a lot of new ones. So everybody listening, just breathe. Take a big breath in, let's all do it together, end through your nose and let it out through your mouth. <Laugh>, we're gonna break it down for you. Don't worry, ladies, we got it. So let's kind of break these down in a little more detail so that people can really understand what you're talking about. Because I think most everybody listening was taught that we, we are Legos, right? We are Legos, yes. Yes. And we we're new Tony in anatomy, and yes, they don't realize that they've been indoctrinated, I won't say brainwashed, yes, but indoctrinated into a belief system that is a philosophy of health. And it's like, we're the fish in the water so we can't see the water.

Speaker 1 (19:42):

And now we're telling people you're in water. Like it's telling a fish. You live in water and the fish would go, what? Water? What are you talking about? Right? And so it's kind of this waking up process that has to happen that everybody's on a different journey with on a different timeline. Yes. And I wanna help them to understand. So I agree with you, this issue of quantum physics, right? We stop asking, but I do think the science has bridged this next level, but medicine just, it's kind of here. No evil, see, no evil speak no evil. They're like, no, no, no, no, I don't wanna hear it. I don't wanna hear it. I don't wanna, I don't wanna think about the things that I don't know. Yes. So can you ta talk a little bit about maybe some information that would, you know, you stated very matter of factly that Ayurveda traditional Chinese medicine, right? All of these ancient belief systems are valid, but to most people they've been told that's not true.

Speaker 3 (20:41):

Yes.

Speaker 1 (20:42):

Okay, good question. What can you say to people that bridges that gap between we're just sticks and balls connected. Yeah. And we are quantum physics that says that these ancient healing tools are valid, and we're more than Newtonian anatomy help them understand, right?

Speaker 3 (21:02):

Sure. Great question. So what everybody in the audience I invite you to understand and take a deep breath and consider, is that all the experts that are talking about how we're primarily this, or primarily atoms, if there are I, I think many experts say otherwise, but the belief that we are these primary primarily atoms that we're made up of this physical matter, et cetera. This comes from unexamined philosophy. And this is really important to understand. So we as physicians, we don't take in-depth philosophy classes. And all of you in the audience, I'm guessing the vast majority of you have not taken in-depth philosophy classes. And yet, despite that, both you and I were indoctrinated, as Kiran says a perfect word in a way of thinking. That said, physical stuff is the main stuff that matters. Nobody told you that, you know, Mrs. Jones didn't sit you down in first grade and say that, but everything we do is based on that, right?

Speaker 3 (22:00):

It's like, look at how things are made of, let's dissect the frog, let's dissect the leaf. What are we looking at? The physical stuff. Think about when you were a baby, right? When did your parents applaud you? When did they praise you? It's when they said, this is your nose, this is your shoulder, this is your stomach. And you were able to pair at that and they said, yay, congratulations. Yay. Look at Jamie. Or look at Jamie, look at Jose. Right? So all the, the adoration that we get, the kudos that we get, the awards that we get, everything is based on attending to physicality. Now, contrast that with your experience. I would bet that most people in the audience right now are not primarily aware of your body right now. You're not aware of your fourth toe right now, you're likely not aware of your heart, you're not aware of your liver, you're not aware of your neck unless you have some pain there.

Speaker 3 (22:50):

Or you had some recent issue. For the mass majority of vast majority of people, the majority of our attention is not on the physical body. It's in our minds. So for example, you may be experiencing, you may be thinking, Hmm, that's interesting. You may be experiencing curiosity, you may be experiencing doubt. Oh, I don't know, that doesn't quite make sense to me. Or you might say, huh, that's something to think about. Or you may be kind of buzzing, like, oh, this is really inspirational. All of these are happening in the mind. And by default, the vast majority of people are experiencing the mind the vast majority of the time. And yet in medicine, there is no model for mind. There's no mental anatomy, there's no mental physiology, there's no clear explication of how the mind relates to the body and why there's no exploration of other cultures and other philosophies that discuss this in detail.

Speaker 3 (23:36):

So right there, you can see this is like two ships passing at night, right? One is a body centric physical perspective, and another one is how we live our lives, which is mostly through our experiences. In fact, you can say that the two most significant experiences in anybody's life are love and pain or love and fear, or love and suffering. And they're both mental experiences, right? And yet there's no model for that in medicine. So what I wanna first do is draw your attention to this huge body mind chasm that exists in medicine. And secondly, I'd like to tell you that doctors, scientists, et cetera, are trained for the vast majority of their, at least for the first, let's say 18 to 30 years of their life, the same way you were in terms of philosophy. We've learned the exact same philosophy, which is that the body is what matters.

Speaker 3 (24:27):

You get kudos when you talk about the body. You get medals and awards for talking about the body. And if you talk about the mind too much, you're kind of strange, right? And, and that's alternative <laugh> and that's different, right? Right. Now what quantum physics has done is that it has taken us to a very unusual place where it has shown us through experimentation that the smallest bits of solid matter that we're so comfortable with, because we love stacking those legos. We love playing Tetris. We love building things, you know, sandcastles, like smaller grains of sand, build larger sand castles. We're so entrained in this small parts make big holes. We're so entrained in this unexamined implicit philosophy that when quantum physics comes along and says, well hold on their partner, those little tiny balls of matter are actually vibrations when you look closely enough and their vibrations, not with a specific boundary, but their vibrations in a vast field of energy.

Speaker 3 (25:24):

It's something like if you had a, an infinite bedsheet, suppose you had a bedsheet that was so big, you could stretch across the whole earth, right? Actually stretch beyond the whole universe. But let's just say the earth for now. And this vast bedsheet, you could kind of push, you could poke on one side of the bed sheet and you could see it sticking out on the other side, right? You can kind of see this, this dent in the bed sheet. That dent is like a particle. Now that is no different than the entire bed sheet. It's the sheet itself locally behaving as a vibration or a dent or a wrinkle that we say, Hey, look, there's a wrinkle and we ignore the entire bed sheet. That's what's happening today in medicine. We're looking at the particles and ignoring the fact that what a particle is is nothing but a local vibration in a vast field of energy, right?

Speaker 3 (26:08):

And we totally leave that out because we don't know what to do do with that. And I say that the reason we don't know what to do with that is because we are locked in this philosophy that says body and particulate stuff is what is most important. Can I go one step further here, Karen? Sure. Go ahead. This, just bear with me here. This may be, we're just gonna go off the deep end just for fun. Okay? All right. Okay. I want to explain to you one hypothesis, one way of trying to understand why that is, how all of this makes sense. How can a small particle be actually this infinite field of energy? How does that make sense? How does that reconcile with what we know now? And here's what I would suggest to you. Okay? Imagine that you are with a friend going for a Sunday drive.

Speaker 3 (26:51):

Okay? You're in, you're in the car, you're going for a drive, and your friend is talking to you and, and imagine this is a dream. So you're sleeping at night, you're having this dream where you and your friend are going for a drive, and your friend is saying, man, I heard this podcast today. And there was some crazy stuff that we were talking about, right? Somebody was saying that these little bits that were made of, you know, like cells and particles. Yeah, yeah, I know that. Okay. Somebody was saying that those little bits are actually just vibrations in a huge field of energy. Can you imagine that? So in the dream, this person's saying, so like this little thumbnail, if I take a little bit of it and I could somehow hold up a little particle of that, they're saying that that's actually this whole thing, everything that's happening around us, the car, the Sunday drive, the sun, even the other planets, isn't that wild?

Speaker 3 (27:34):

How can that be? Doesn't make any sense. Now, within that dream, it doesn't make sense, right? But let's say we step outside that dream, as you and I are now, we're now outside the dream and we're looking in on that dream that they're having. And what we see is that the little particle that that person in the dream was talking about when they tried to look into what it is, what they found is that it was made of that entire field that the entire dream was made of. Well, what was the dream made of? It was naturally, it was mind, right? A dream is literally made of the mind. That is what a dream is. The mind represents itself as characters, as space, as time, and as little bits of matter. And so it only makes sense that if in that dream people try to look into the smallest thing and really find out with the most rigor, the most determination, the most scientific accuracy.

Speaker 3 (28:23):

And if they really do that and try to find out what that particle is, they're going to find out that there's no such thing as a particle. Because the entire thing is mined. There are no definite boundaries in that dream other than the boundaries superimposed by the mind. So every little thing in a dream, whether it's a rock or a hammer, or whether it's a thought in the dream, or whether it's water or something soft, when you look into it deeply enough from a scientific perspective, if we're good with our science, it will have to show us that that tiny thing is not actually something tiny, but something vast that is representing itself as something tiny. And I think that is what quantum physics is telling us. And that's why we cannot accept that in medicine. We're so wedded to the idea that the physical stuff creates the mental stuff, that the brain creates the mind. We cannot consider the inverse opinion, which is that mind or consciousness is fundamental, and it represents itself as these physical particles and on up as they build up into atom's, molecules and the body,

Speaker 1 (29:25):

Right? Yeah. But it is kind of insane when you think about it. Consciousness. How can you assess health or talk about health without addressing consciousness? But that is the very earth on which health doesn't want to tread. And I don't know if that goes back to when there was separation of church and state made. At some point that decision was made. And so we are living the results of the decision to kind of excise spirituality, excise consciousness from health. So I think it's important that we're having the conversations that you are discussing. And you mentioned earlier when you were talking about the four aspects, that there are no writeups on people healing. Yes. People heal in, in what we call miraculous ways every single day. Yes. But it's, yes, it's considered anecdotal. And so the very yardstick by which we measure scientific validity, the doubleblind placebo controlled trial, yes, you can't have, but science does just discount these anecdotes and say, oh, that's anecdotal and that's spurious. And it's not consistent. So, but we never question and say, wow, that we created that yardstick by which we're measuring everything and we just discard everything. That's not doubleblind placebo control trial proven, right?

Speaker 3 (30:51):

Yes, 100%. And, and the thing is, as long as we can say it's miraculous or unusual, we don't have to really pay attention to it. That's the catch 22 is like, on one hand it sounds amazing, it's like, wow, what a miracle it happened. But what we don't say is, well, that happened to a hundred other people too, but we just don't talk about it, or we don't know about it. And we don't create an environment where people want to talk about it. If we were really scientists, if we were really interested in helping people heal, we would create a database. That'd be the first thing that NIH would do, right? Here's a database, super easy to use, what was the diagnosis? How did it heal? And then an investigator would call you, how did you do it? Research it. And we would have hundreds of thousands of cases of these around the world, and we would very quickly get to what is it that helps? And I can guarantee you it's gonna be nutrition movement, connection, arrest, it's gonna be factors along those lines. Because no matter who is healed, it's always some combination of these. But we don't do that. So as long as we don't do that, we can keep saying it's anecdotal or it's miraculous. And I think that's where we do a disservice to the public.

Speaker 1 (31:51):

Yeah, I agree. And I, I really like how you talked about that we confuse complimentary and conventional medicine, but the real complimentary is modern mess medicine. Yes. The pills and procedures, but that the conventional medicine really is food connection cetera. Yes. And that's really what doctors should be focusing on. Yes. So how can, can you tell people maybe how they would get started? Because I love that concept with their own practice of conventional medicine, but things would they start paying attention to. Yes.

Speaker 3 (32:26):

So we actually have a chorus called the Health Jumpstart Chorus on our website. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> at Health Revolution. If you go to health revolution.org/courses, there's one course called Health Jumpstart, which actually goes through these four nutrition, movement, connection, and rest. And there are 10 minute talks. You can do a, a talk daily where it's like a talk plus a simple practice that you can do to start moving in this direction. And it's not about being perfect, it's just about starting a process. You know, I'll go into this a little bit more detail. Nutrition, number one, lowest hanging fruit nutrition is to cut out processed foods, right? There's so much varying advice on nutrition, but I can tell you one thing that nobody advocates, nobody advocates eating processed foods, right? That's pretty much universal, universally agreed on. And there's hardly anything that's universally agreed on in nutrition.

Speaker 3 (33:14):

But every expert will say less processed food is another way of saying food. That's not really food, right? So eat real food, cut out processed food. And then the other thing is a plant predominant diet. So plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables. Now, beyond that, there's all kinds of customization that a person can do. But I will tell you, Kiran, I think you'd probably agree that if we just did that, the number of diseases that would go away by simply cutting out processed foods and eating more fresh fruits and vegetables is monumental. So that's monumental. That's beginning of nutrition. Another huge part of nutrition is what you and I are doing now, Kira. And that is telling a better story, nutrition for the mind, right? To Uhhuh, to really give people the story. What is true, what is to be looked at? What do we need to assess more closely?

Speaker 3 (34:00):

And what is the big picture here that ties all of this together, right? This time that we're in, what's happening in health and healthcare? What's happening in the world? What's happening to our power? How we can get our power and our independence back? What is that big story? And that's what we really like to tell at Health Revolution is a big story of what's going on and how we need to take our power back by activating these four engines of nutrition, movement, connection, arrest. Because that's really how you start to it. It's almost like living your life in advocacy for yourself, right? Because it's when the health starts to suffer, it's when we become dependent on other systems that are incomplete and that that take disease based approaches to care. That's when things start to get difficult. So number one is taking that power back, which every person can do, no matter what their situation is by activating these engines.

Speaker 3 (34:51):

So nutrition for the body, nutrition for the mind movement is manyfold movement. Of course, exercise is there, but I don't wanna limit to exercise, right? Because not everybody has to exercise in the same way. I say range of motion itself is powerful. If you have a joint, use it. You know, when you get up in the morning, every single joint, take it through its full range of motion. I do it even my, like, let's say my index finger, my d i p, my distal joint of my index finger, which we generally might not use. I'll flex it and extend it. Why? Because I have it. It's there, it's moment matters. So, you know, move your eyes all up and down, rotate them around, rotate them side to side, you know, move your neck, basically use that full range of motion. It gets the blood circulating, it gets your energy flowing and you just feel more vital when you do that.

Speaker 3 (35:41):

That's one aspect of moving the body. The other huge one is moving the breath, right? Rather than the shallow breathing that comes from the neck up, the full breath using the diaphragm, right? That that expands the trunk fully and kind of, and livens the whole body. The breath is so vital by the way, because it is probably the single biggest thing that connects what we call the mind and what we call the body in the er. You can, you can be, you can bet that if somebody's breathing fast and shallow that they're anxious, right? Even before you see them. If you look at the respiratory rate, you can tell fast and shallow equals anxious, slow and deep equals restful, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So the breath and the body are intimately connected. And if you have a person breathing shallow and fast in the er, I'll make sure that my breath is deep and restful. Because it's almost like who is going to influence who somebody's going to move towards the other in terms of mental state, right? So it becomes very important to be aware of your mental state and how to ground yourself with the breath. So that's, we talked about moving range of motion. Sorry, go ahead. Sorry

Speaker 1 (36:45):

To interrupt you, but you just reminded me of a story. When I was a resident ob gyn one day there was a patient <laugh>, you know, sometimes a little naive day goes a long way. And I think I was a second year, so I didn't know everything yet. And patient had tachypnea, she was breathing very rapidly and nobody could figure out why. You know, they had done an arterial. Yeah. And they had done all this whole workup and they come to me and they're like, well, what do you think? So I go in there and I observe her and she's really huffing and puffing and I, I said to her, why are you breathing so fast? She says, I don't know. I said, stop. And she stopped

Speaker 3 (37:21):

<Laugh>. Yeah. And

Speaker 1 (37:27):

Stop doing it. Yeah. And the problem went away. And it was very interesting. I really think that she was anxious. Yeah. So to your point, I think she was anxious and so she was shallow, rapid breathing. Yeah. Yeah. And when I just brought her mind to it, she stopped. Yeah. And problem solved. But how many of those problems could be solved if we paid better attention? But I agree with you about the breath.

Speaker 3 (37:51):

I agree. And, and we see that in the ER too. You know, and sometimes, sometimes I have the time to sit there with a person and they might be coming in with tachypnea or they feel short of breath or they feel chest discomfort. And sometimes you can talk to them and if you have enough time, you kind of hear what's going on in their life, what's stressing them out. And sure enough, mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, you know, by the end of a six minute conversation, they're not breathing like that anymore. You know? And that often, and if, if they're truly feel better and all their symptoms have resolved and, and in your exam and your evaluation, everything else looks okay, you might have saved them six hours in the er, who knows how much their bill would've been. And that's simply under, now not all te chimney is that, of course, as we both know.

Speaker 3 (38:36):

But you know, knowing that and considering that is critical. So that's movement of the breath. The other two kinds of movement kirin are moving our emotions. I, you know, I cannot tell you how many people I've heard have healed from conditions by moving their emotions. And again, this goes back to if you think that the brain creates the mind and emotions and therefore there's some strange link somewhere, it's not so clear. But if you subscribe to another philosophy that is still entirely scientifically consistent, which is that consciousness is fundamental and matter or body is its representation, then mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, we can see how anything that's lodged in the mind, like repressed emotions that have been stored for decade and have become stonelike and are manifesting as let's say tightness or muscular s stricture, which can lead to breathing difficulties, which can lead to pneumonia and who knows what else. Right. I can people just by releasing emotions I've seen heal from Crohn's disease after decades, despite having bowel, bowel resection and bowel obstructions and multiple infections just from one session of hypnosis. There's one person I know who healed from Crohn's disease, all their symptoms went away. Yeah. Other person that's, yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:49):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, go ahead. That I was gonna say, that's fascinating. Before you tell the other example, if you can talk a little bit more about that, because that concept of not feeling emotion thing that came to me in the past few years and I didn't really understand what it meant and now I totally understand what it meant and what it feels like as an embodied sensation and find that so many people are in their minds thinking, thinking and labeling emotions, but they don't actually feel them. Yes. And it's a different experience when I feel people drop into the emotions and feel them because emotions are energy, emotion. They want to be run through, they want to be processed. And when you don't, you get a block. So can you explain that in a way that people might have a real understanding, cuz I think more of us than not, do not process our emotions or feel them.

Speaker 3 (40:40):

Yeah. Well you know, I can tell you my story. There's definitely a point in my life where I had to, on my own journey, I had to feel emotions that I had held in for so long. And that really changed, you know, everything about my life in a way. One story that comes to mind is when I was in medical school, the backstory is that I was born in, in DC in the United States and we moved back to India for a few years. So I lived there when I was a small kid for a few years and stayed with my grandmother for a little while, was very close to her in Guerra, in South India. Living in the village, you know, running around barefoot and just having, having a ball all the time. And then we moved back to the United States and have lived here since then.

Speaker 3 (41:23):

But I was very close to her. And at some point when I was in, I think, I think it was about ninth grade or so, my grandmother passed away in India. And I never really had that chance to mourn cuz it had been so long since I'd seen her intermittently, but never spent that much time with her again. And, you know, it was kind of just felt kind of disconnected. And I was also very much in my head thinking about so many things, ninth grade. And then med school came around later. And by that time in medical school around that time, I was going through a lot of changes. Just in my own experience. I was getting into meditation, a lot of changes were happening within myself. And I remember one night I heard the song, and it's a, the language that we speak is, is called Maam, it's A Language in South India.

Speaker 3 (42:04):

And it was a mala song. And the meaning of the song says it is goes like this, it says, you know, without saying anything, you went away. Do you still remember me? And so I heard that and it just like, it hit me like in my core, like in the depths of my heart. And I felt like my grandmother was saying that to me, you know, like, you know, like, you were here, you were living with me and then you just up and went to the US and you know, do you still remember me? Not in an accusatory way, but like, just in a loving way. Oh, do you remember me? You know, I'm your grandma. And of course I did remember her, I still felt very close to her. I still feel close to her now. But I had kind of, you know, intellectually built a wall so that I wasn't experiencing that.

Speaker 3 (42:49):

But when I heard this song, it all came flooding back. And I think I spent, I don't know, two or three, four hours keeping that song on a repeat and bawling my heart out for hours that night. I was literally, I've never cried like that in my life. I was literally on the floor in the fetal position with these deep earthen sobs coming out. And it was intentionally on repeat that I was doing that. And I can tell you that after that, that released so much in me that allowed me to continue on my journey. You know? And I know that if I had not done that, that that certain hardness or that tension that I kind of knew was there, but I also was kind of ignoring that could never have been released. And I know that down the line leads to that dise, that dis hyphen ease leads to disease in so many ways.

Speaker 3 (43:41):

And so, you know, one story I can tell you was the story of Crohn's disease. Somebody, I talked to somebody who, who we interviewed, she, she's on the Healing is Possible podcast, you can check out the full story. But the story was that when she was a kid, she felt like the only time she could get attention from her parents is when she was sick. They worked, I think she lived on a farm and she was always working, her parents were always working and she always had to do things. I never felt like she could just rest, you know, take time and just rest and be a kid. And when she did this hypnosis session, this all came back to her. Right? And so what came to her is like, that's the only time I could rest. And it's almost like her body was in a sense making her sick so that she could rest or get that rest.

Speaker 3 (44:23):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And of course this came to her, right? Nobody told her this. And in fact, if you tell somebody this, they're likely to slap you. Say, you know how, how dare you say that, you know, I'm making this up and that my body's doing this. And of course that's not what's being said. No, nobody's making anything up. We're just talking about responses of the human system to receive what it needs, which is perfectly natural and perfectly understandable. So she arrived at this understanding during this one hypnosis session. Again, this is after multiple admissions to the hospital. Even a bowel resection, meaning part of the bowel was cut out. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, even after all that one hypnosis session where she realized this, that my body is doing this because it needs this space to rest, it needs this care. And when she realized that, she said, okay, I can give myself that.

Speaker 3 (45:10):

I don't need that anymore. And literally after that session, she stopped having any symptoms. And it's been five years or so now. So a classic example of how the body presents something that's in the mind. I'll give you one more example, which is with ulcerative colitis, another inflammatory bowel disease. This was a guy who's a psychotherapist in New York City. He's also on the Healing As Possible Podcast. This story, he was actually helping people get off of medicine and get better without being as dependent on medicine when he could do it safely. But he was super stressed out. He was always thinking about them even on vacation. He was thinking about them because obviously that's a, it's a critical function and you have to get that right, otherwise people can really suffer. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. So he was always thinking about that, totally stressed out. And he had totally ignored what he always wanted to do, which is kind of make independent movies or, or shoot these films.

Speaker 3 (46:00):

And at some point when he was on vacation super and then he, some point he started having chronic diarrhea and fevers and infections and doctors put him on all kinds of medicine. You know, first it was prednisone, then other steroids, then immunosuppressants. But he was still having diarrhea and it was getting worse and worse and worse, abdominal pain. And finally they said, you know, we have to look at resection again. We have to look at cutting out part of your bowel. And he's like, this is insane. I'm young, I'm healthy, I'm an athlete. Like I don't understand how this is happening. I need to, I just gotta do something about this. So while on vacation stressed out, he said, I think I know what this is. I just don't feel good about what I'm doing. I'm too stressed out all the time. I wanna do what I wanna do.

Speaker 3 (46:40):

And he said he'd made the hardest decision of his life, which is to quit that job. And he wasn't sure about financial security and to get on a plane to, I think it was Europe that he went to. And he said it wasn't just the money, he was worried about being incontinent on the flight cuz he was going 15 times a day or more. And he said that happened. He had to suffer that on the plane. It happened over and over and over. But then he said, A new a funny thing happened once I made that decision, my diarrhea went down from 15 times a day to eight times a day. And then another month hap went by and it was four times a day and another month went by and it totally stopped. And today he has zero symptoms on no medication. This is a guy who was told he was going to have bowel resection within the next few months.

Speaker 3 (47:22):

And the only thing he's changed was stopping that job. Now was it easy? Of course it's not easy. There're not a lot of people who would make that decision. Where's the money gonna come from and, you know, how are you gonna suffer that plane trip? But you know, I think it's a, it's a commentary on our society that we put people in such difficult situations about their health that we don't say, you know what, you need six months, here you go. But these are ways, clear examples of how the body, I'm sorry, how the mind and the hormones and neurotransmitters associated with certain activities can stimulate inflammation in the body by creating a chronic state of inflammation through increasing the circulating cytokines in the blood. And that chronic inflammation then leads to conditions including heart disease, inflammatory bowel disease, and many other things.

Speaker 1 (48:08):

Right. Wow. Those are great examples. I think everybody should check out your podcast for sure. We'll have a link to it in the show notes and then we'll also have a link to the course that you have for everyone. The Three Minds Course. Yes. And so tell everyone about the Three Minds Course and where they can find you online.

Speaker 3 (48:28):

Okay. So the Three Minds Course is actually the free course. And that is, if you really want to dive into this possibility of consciousness being fundamental and matter of being its representation, this is the course. It's an entirely new way of seeing yourself and seeing the world that again, is entirely consistent with science. So it takes you through, you know, what is the first mind, what is the second mind and what is the third mind? That's the first part of the course. And then really gets into the analysis. You know, how does that make sense? What does it mean? What are some examples of that? And then it goes through some of the science that, that supports this, how we can use the current science and say, okay, I can see how this actually supports this model of the world. So you can find that at, if you go to health revolution.org/courses, you can go and click on the Three Minds Course and the other course that's there, of course the Health Jump Start course that teaches a person to activate their four engines.

Speaker 1 (49:24):

Awesome. Thank you for those resources. Thank you for this very important discussion that people need to hear about really why we don't know what true health is or how to achieve it. And giving them insight into the true conventional medicine. The, the four aspects of it. Yes. How they can get started with that. And really the importance of starting to understand the mind, what it is and how to work with it to help your health so that you can heal because healing is possible. What are some of the, of the other great stories they're going to hear on your podcast?

Speaker 3 (50:02):

There is a story of Liz, who is an I C U nurse who was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. Even initially was not so sure. And then she had the classic features on M R I that was found to be multiple sclerosis and was going down the usual treatment route was getting worse and worse and worse. And then she did a combination of things, different aspects of nutrition, movement, connection, and rest. And by changing that, by meditation, by changing what she ate, she found, I forgot the exact words. Words that she used. I think she said she could push the disease right. In the sense that she could feel it coming on. And then when she played with certain levers in her life, she could kind of push it away and stay symptom free. So that's a great story. Another's a story of Emily.

Speaker 3 (50:51):

Emily was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, I think, I believe she was in her thirties maybe, if I'm not mistaken, and got to a point where it was so severe that she couldn't hug her kids. And you know, she just heartbreaking, heartbreaking to, to, to tell her to hear her story. When she tried to hug them, she would feel so much pain in her body. And she's like, I can't do this. And she was on immunosuppressants and so many meds. And then she started to read and open her mind. And again, nutrition for the mind, hear that healing is possible, consider other perspectives, try some new things. And she told her doctor, she's like, I don't wanna be on this medicines. I have to, I need to try to heal this. And her doctor, her doctor said, Emily, you're gonna be in a wheelchair by the time you're 40, which I frankly think is cruel.

Speaker 3 (51:36):

You know, I wasn't there. I don't know the context, but I just think that's not the right thing to say to somebody. You know, you, we can have our opinions, but I think we support our patients in what they want and we tell them what we know. But to, I, I think that's a criticism that, that we need to stay away from regardless. Emily went on this journey and now is nearly symptom free, but she's way past, well, I wanna say way past where I take that back. She's definitely past 40 and she's not on any medication and she feels great most of the time. So that's another story. I'll give you one more powerful one. This is a story of Dr. Jimmy Conway, who's an orthopedic surgeon in, I wanna say Louisiana. No, not Louisiana, in Oklahoma City, I believe. He said, you know, he grew up, you know bacon, eggs, sausage, you know, every meal, something like that, heavy meats.

Speaker 3 (52:27):

And he said, he actually said that I knew I was gonna die, is what he said at some point. Or I knew something was gonna happen to me. But, you know, he was just on this lifestyle and then doing surgeries and just going at it full speed. And one day he had some left arm pain went in sure enough, had the angiogram and he's got multi-vessel disease. And he sees the cardiac surgeon standing over him, who was actually somebody he knew from medical school who said, Jimmy, you need to have bypass surgery in the next couple days, otherwise you're not gonna make it. And you know, his, basically his life is staring him in the face. So he goes home and he's getting ready for it. And obviously, you know, no exercise, nothing to, to stress your heart out in the meantime. And he comes across his book, how to Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease by Dr.

Speaker 3 (53:18):

Caldwell Esselstyn. And he starts reading it, and then he gets inspired and he calls a surgeon and says, Hey, I'm canceling the surgery. The guy says, are you crazy? You're not gonna make it. He says, I can't do it. I need to try this. And he switches to a plant-based diet. And I can tell you that that's what, over 10 years ago, I think. And he is totally symptom free right now. And for people think that heart disease, I want, it's important for people to understand that heart disease is reversible. Not every single case, but in many cases, and Jimmy was one of the most severe cases, your heart disease happens because of atherosclerotic buildup on the vessels, on the lining of the vessels. And a plant-based diet has been shown to reverse, not just stop, but reverse the buildup that's in those vessels. And he's just one of many stories of people who avoided heart surgery and avoided stents by switching to a plant-based diet. So there's so many stories like that that I, I could keep going, but please do listen to podcast.

Speaker 1 (54:20):

Yeah, that's a great just sampling of what's available. And so I wanted everyone to hear the inspiration that's there. Healing is possible. I hope you will check out that episode. We will have links to all of the things that Dr. Kumar has mentioned in the show notes. So if you're driving, don't try and write them down. We'll have the links in the show notes wherever you get, whenever you get where you're going, you can click them. Thank you so much, Anup, for the work that you're doing. It's so important. Thank you for this wonderful conversation. It's very much appreciated.

Speaker 3 (54:52):

Thank you, Karen. It's a pleasure to be here and, and thank you for the work you do.

Speaker 1 (54:55):

And thank you all for listening to another episode of The Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kirin. Thanks so much for joining us today. I hope you've learned something that inspires you to take action on your health, to know that healing is possible, brilliant health is possible, it's your birthright. And if you're not experiencing that well, then you need to get moving so that you can just take one step today. What's something that you could do different to move into the right direction? And I'll see you next week when we'll have another great guest on the podcast. Until then, peace, love, and hormones, y'all.

Speaker 2 (55:31):

Thank you so much for listening. I know that incredible vitality occurs for women over 40 when we learn to speak hormone and balance these vital regulators to create the health and the life that we deserve. If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love it if you give me a review and subscribe. It really does help this podcast out so much. You can visit the hormone prescription.com where we have some free gifts for you, and you can sign up to have a hormone evaluation with me on the podcast to gain clarity into your personal situation. Until next time, remember, take small steps each day to balance your hormones and watch the wonderful changes in your health that begin to unfold for you. Talk to you soon.

 

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This course invites you to reconsider fundamental assumptions about who you are and what the nature of this world is. It asserts that consciousness is fundamental and that matter is its pattern, in a manner consistent with science. It asserts that the body is the representation of the mind, rather than the body being the source of the mind. Seeing yourself and the world in this way brings openness, clarity, and infinite possibilities.

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