The Joys and Pitfalls of Real Estate Entrepreneurship

Ben, John, and Ryan peel back the curtain on the ugly side of entrepreneurship. What is it really like to be your own boss? 

 

(Transcript below.)

 

Ep 10 - The Joys (and Pitfalls) of Real Estate Entrepreneurship

 

Ben Shelley: [00:00:06] Welcome back to the Brick x Brick Podcast. I'm Ben and I'm here with John and Ryan today and we're going to talk about being an entrepreneur. Probably a little bit more broad than some of the topics we've gone into in recent weeks. But I think that this is something that can be both really interesting for listeners and also frankly a lot of fun because we are all entrepreneurs. And not just talking about I think what it takes to be an entrepreneur because there's a lot obviously that goes into it but also sort of identifying maybe what what is it about you and what kind of personality types tend to thrive I think in in this sort of free for all culture that both has a ton of chaos but also I guess maybe the phrase is controlled chaos so I think that's kind of the life of an entrepreneur. I guess we could start maybe by talking about our own individual experiences as entrepreneurs.

 

John Errico: [00:00:51] Yeah I mean I have a lot a lot to say. So much good and bad so much wisdom. It's strange I don't even know if I really consider myself to be an entrepreneur per se although I think if from a distance one would look at my career and life and say that I would fit that category. I think that being an entrepreneur can mean a lot of different things. But the substantiation that it is in my life I think in our life our lives means that we are running either our own we're working for herself and or running our own businesses. And that carries with it a lot of prerequisites and a lot of personality types and traits and tolerances that I don't think are necessarily for everyone. So maybe we can jump in the air that way. I think that my personality type is maybe not even that well situated to be an entrepreneur to be totally frank.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:01:50] But it's funny.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:01:51] I was given to say knowing you I actually feel totally different and I want to hear why you speak at first. Glad you guys think that really we're here we're just here to build John our love of yourself. I'm curious why why do you think you're not well suited for it.

 

John Errico: [00:02:04] So I think in my experience one thing that I think you have to totally throw to the wind is your interest in doing something that is prestigious. I think being an entrepreneur has no, there is a prestige in this sort of way that you look at a startup guy and you're like oh man he's you know building the next Facebook or whatever it is and it's so cool that he's working for himself blah blah blah. But the flip side is that to do that whether it be in real estate that we operate in or in technology or whatever you have to do a lot of really crappy things and get paid no money to do it.

 

John Errico: [00:02:40] And if you're the sort of person that's drawn to procedures think I mean let's be I went to Yale you know let's be I know let's be honest right now I mean I was believable actually right. It's three Ivy League Degrees. Really I have two degrees from Cornell Law School I'm basking in your great I know just one arena but you know but but you've got two degrees from law school. I had two degrees from Moscow right. Doesn't everyone know I JDL. Fact Check. Yeah. And l l m l l am. Can you tell me what the differences between these two. Yes one is a doctor and one's a master's. So if you're a doctor or I'm a doctor of law I like your attend a doctor.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:03:15] My mom would be a shame to me that I called a doctorate the equivalent of a doctor.

 

John Errico: [00:03:18] I mean I bring it up only because I'm so awesome but also because.

 

John Errico: [00:03:23] Also because I'm obviously if you looked at that you'd say this guy really likes procedures. I mean I went to Yale because it's a prestigious school right. I mean I went to Cornell because it's a prestigious school. I mean also it's a good education but it's very helpful. So my career path before I went off to do entrepreneur or ship things was very much seeking prestige and I like that I like people looking at my resume and me personally being like wow that guys is a great you know background a great education. If you value that, don't be an entrepreneur because you're not going to receive a lot of that doesn't. Nobody cares about that in the construction world nobody's buying a house for me because I went to Yale.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:03:59] I mean maybe I think maybe I might not buy a house because you went to Yale.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:04:04] Well you know it's funny.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:04:06] I don't want to get sidetracked before we've even got other stories in here but it reminds you something I told John recently where I was having a conversation with an old academic mentor of mine and I told them about the fact that I'm working with John and Ryan now and she comes from a very structured environment and I think it's we're gonna note on this a lot but you talk about the difference in let's say personality types of some people who enjoy prestige and structure they get up in the morning they know exactly what they're going to do they got a paycheck every two weeks and eccentric natural life is good and easy easy is the wrong word.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:04:37] But but good and and instructor and consistent that's the word I was having a conversation with her. And we're talking about what we were doing together and in the real estate business and oh yeah that's great that's great and then at the end she goes what schools do they go to. I said oh University of Maryland and Yale. And then she goes Oh good good.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:04:55] And it's really in Maryland. That's what she said after I think to think about that you talk about the different even.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:05:03] Not this is not disparaging by the way this person is wonderful and and successful in her own right. But it just tells you maybe a little bit of the personality differences between people who sometimes seek structure and the quote unquote traditional maybe entrepreneur archetype and that manifests in different ways.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:05:17] Well it's funny it's funny that you touched on the topic of prestige because I think we're in a day and age now where particularly with the Silicon Valley tech stuff there is a lot of prestige associated with being a quote unquote entrepreneur.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:05:29] And I think that's something that's feedback I get often where people think it's so cool that I do my own thing. But what they don't see is all the ugly stuff that you alluded to earlier and they don't see the the days are like the stuff that you've been dealing with on our way in here where a pipe froze and you guys have to troubleshoot it to figure out how there's going to be heat how the water is going to get out of there. I see John's more SEO check I just see his spirit just like dying right now as these things.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:05:57] This is supposed to be the brick by brick Comedy Hour and we're where we escape real life. But but there really is a lot of crap that goes along with it. And that is both figurative and literal crap like we almost stepped in a bunch earlier the last place we were looking at and we looked at and we said that's a metaphor. We love the play. We also said you know that.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:06:16] But there's prestige associated with the idea of being an entrepreneur entrepreneur. But the actual practice of it I think is far less desirable and as John alluded to far less far less suitable for most personality types. I agree with a lot of things you said there.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:06:34] There's a constant there's a constant like internal dialogue of hey this is this is beneath me I don't want to be doing this while also knowing that if you don't do something it's not going to get done and there are business things to consider too like is this the best use of my time. But this game is certainly not for the faint of heart especially in the you know residential real estate construction space where things can get dirty yeah.

 

John Errico: [00:07:00] There is a to use an Ivy League word a fetishization if you're not careful.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:07:05] People are going to come away from this episode with the wrong perception of you know it's the very thing right.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:07:10] There were no judgments.

 

John Errico: [00:07:12] Yeah I I I mean before one one delves into this I think it's probably valuable to know the struggle and so maybe we can talk about that because for both Ryan and I to get to where we are right now there's been a lot of I was having a conversation with somebody recently about our private equity fund which if you don't know about it please please feel free to review other episodes in Episode 6 reach out to us on Facebook.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:07:41] It's a great idea so listen to us and I didn't write it at that. Tweet us at Liberty Hudson. Absolutely please.

 

John Errico: [00:07:49] But I was having conversation with them and they they wanted to help us do something fun raise money. Something like that and they were sort of saying like oh well if if I help you a lot you know can I have a big share of the fun. Like can I can I get you know carry. Can I get equity in this country that could do that. And my response I very rarely get offended or are upset but my response was like Dude I've spent thousands of hours of my life doing the worst stuff ever. This is the culmination of that effort and you coming out of nowhere to ask me to give you something that I've built and right also. But right at the same story to you for me to give that to you for free because you might help me.

 

John Errico: [00:08:36] It's insane. It's crazy to me and it's it's actually offensive to me it's actually offensive that you'd even ask because you don't know what I had to do to get there right.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:08:45] That's how I felt. And beyond that people don't understand the costs associated with this. I think that's this is part of the glamour of the perception or this is part of the misunderstanding. Broadly speaking about real estate people think oh I mean this is a claim that both of us could make. We could say oh we we sold five million dollars worth of property last year. So people people take that to mean we pocketed five million dollars. That's certainly not the case. I mean between debt and partners and all that. The margins are quite quite thinner than they would appear. And there are as John alluded to earlier so many inputs that just get glossed over and there's so much crap that you deal with that oftentimes they're like there are deals that we've looked at in the past or deals that I think we've discussed between the two of us that you know where we're projecting maybe a a 30 thousand other profit at the end of the day when all is said when all is said and done and to an outside observer it may seem like a no brainer. But when you think about the fact that there is going to be a lot of time there's gonna be a lot of headache. There are going to be cost overruns if that 30000 turns into a ten thousand dollar profit then both on a per hour basis and in terms of opportunity cost that is just an objectively bad deal.

 

John Errico: [00:10:04] Absolutely. And I think underlying it too is the stress. I think even even among us we don't really talk about it too. But it's very stressful to do this stuff I mean there there are times. I mean I I love it. So it's not an existential stress. It's not like what am I doing with my life. But it's an operational stress. It's like putting out fires and emergencies and you can take a take a step back and say look I'm doing what I love and everything's gonna be okay. But in the moment you're stressed I mean you're you're great. I'm like grinding my teeth. I'm like staying awake. My mind is racing you know that I experience that a lot. And for some these projects where I might make five grand off of it 10 grand off of it for months of work and stress and sleepless nights I mean you could work at any other job and make that money without that stress.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:10:51] So I think there's a there's a grid and I apologize if I misquote this here but as a great Steve Jobs quote where he says when you look very closely you know all of these overnight successes actually took a lot of work right. You only see the finished product. And to John's point I mean anyone who has lived their life in any entrepreneurial fashion or has taken that leap knows kind of that reaction you had to talking to that potential private equity investor.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:11:17] But I think it's it's it's interesting because because you also you don't always appreciate the fact that until you scale up which for 99 percent of businesses takes a lot of work and a lot of time you're also going back to this phrase that Ryan always uses this idea on whether or not you're working on your business excuse me working on your business versus working in your business and the amount of opportunity cost it takes when you're an entrepreneur especially when you're getting started in doing all of these nitty gritty things they just need to get done that people say oh like if you're doing real estate I get best you have you have this person new business they just they don't even think about they don't understand the idea of like even if something is as seems as simple as like you know coordinating permits with as a general contractor or with general contractors or just even like scheduling an inspection.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:12:05] I mean this it takes work it takes time.

 

John Errico: [00:12:08] Or the like buying a piece of real estate and buying complex that. My gosh it's very complex very complex.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:12:13] It's also interesting to contrast this with my previous life working in essentially corporate America and having a very I guess I would say normal stable secure job. I admittedly was not a very good employee and I certainly didn't work my tail off there but I know I did enough and I think I did some good work. But the emotional toll of that or the emotional weight that that carried was so vastly minuscule compared to what we face today and it's not just because of the nature of the work but it's it's because of the nature of being essentially on call 24 24/7 and the fact that you know the beauty of this is that we are ultimately in control of our own destiny which is great. And this is not to say that I wouldn't want it any other way but what that carries with it is this constant burden of could I be doing more. And for me that manifests in I think a similar way to John where it'll be seven o'clock and I've just eaten dinner and I want to mail it in and I know that for my own sanity and for my own health the best thing would be to turn on the TV or talk to him and talk to my girlfriend or talk to a friend and take my mind off of work. But I also know that I have this lingering lingering anxiety about all of the things that I that I need to do and need to get done and this is time when I could be accomplishing that. And that also kind of feeds feeds unto itself because if I you know if I do start doing work at that time I might not stop doing work until 10 or 11 or midnight or one and then falling asleep becomes that much harder. And then you're sitting there at 1:00 in the morning saying crap what did I do with my night. I have to be up at 7:00 to start this whole cycle all over again.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:14:03] Yeah I mean I think again when you talk about your guy's individual experience it also reminds me or makes me want to say also to the listeners out there that there are also a lot of different classes and a lot different ways to be more so both of your experiences while they were very different and getting to to the end game had certain parallel lines.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:14:20] I think it's the same.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:14:21] I'm much earlier in my career than than the two of these guys but I work in property management right off the bat and that was more of a structured environment and I found that even within that scope I enjoyed sort of taking the initiative and going out and trying to be on my own which is why I transition to becoming a broker and and that's I think again it's important to recognize the fact that there's all these different classes in the real estate world.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:14:40] If you want to be an entrepreneur right you can be a broker you can be an investor you can be just a contractor you'll be just a property manager you can be just a lender you could be just a consultant. Yes I did write these down I don't I'm not just saying these off the top of my head.

 

John Errico: [00:14:51] Wow he's really smart did he go to Yale to bring about an inspector.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:14:55] Inspector Yeah I mean what worries an appraiser a couple other things that they estimated are two men and missions here in engineering so I mean engineering consulting environments just there's just a million things that you can do and so I think that taking that leap is very difficult but it's also important to remember there's a lot of different paths.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:15:12] And within a lot of those paths you know there are a lot of people who have a proclivity towards entrepreneurship or towards independence but maybe don't feel comfortable because of where they are in their life or where they are in their career or they don't feel comfortable taking a full on leap of faith and and becoming a true entrepreneur and you know only having that or not having anything else to fall back on. There are other opportunities that you can cultivate that allow you to achieve a similar level of independence whether it's being a consultant or being a finding yourself in a position with a particular company where you do have a fair amount of autonomy and maybe you're in charge of a group or maybe they allow you to work from home or they compensate you for business that you bring in. It doesn't have to be a black or white equation. It's not it's not you're either an entrepreneur or you're not there are plenty of things that fall in between in that are I think important to highlight for the people who may not be cut out for or interested in the extreme.

 

John Errico: [00:16:10] I almost disagree I don't know. I I've thought about this a fair amount and I think that I think there's something to be said of really going all in as an entrepreneur to to see that there's nothing like having no backstop as a motivator.

 

[00:16:24] I I agree with that. What what I'm saying is I think there are people who think most people if you ask them would say Oh yeah it would be great not to have a boss or I'm bringing in all this business for my company but I get paid the same as Joe Schmo over there who brings in nothing. And you know it doesn't work nearly as hard as I do. So what I'm saying is like there's a spectrum and there's there are other roles that you can cultivate to satisfy certain urges or a certain itch that you may have without being like I'm speaking more so to the type of person who truly does not want to be an entrepreneur but who may think they do because of one reasoni.e. I don't have a boss or I want to have some more incentive to you know perform better at my job. I

 

John Errico: [00:17:13] don't know. I mean it's an open question for me like our people sort of intrinsically entrepreneurs or do people become entrepreneurs or can people learn to be more of a entrepreneur or something I don't know.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:17:24] I don't know. Nature versus nurture.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:17:27] I think a lot of this is this this could go in so many different reactions now but I think there is a whole conversation to be had about the systems primarily academic that are in place today and the fact that I think in a lot of ways they they reward the type of behavior that leads you to be a good corporate employee as opposed to being a kind of rebellious entrepreneur. Well

 

Ben Shelley: [00:17:51] I think I think another important thing which all ties into this which I've always tried to ask myself before I took any leap in direction whether that be as an entrepreneur in my professional career or in academics because I also transferred specifically to study real estate and I kind of was all in at 20 years old and I think it's it's understanding yourself. I mean what are

 

Ben Shelley: [00:18:10] your strengths and weaknesses. The favorite my favorite note I've ever written for the show is underneath understand yourself strengths and weaknesses as Ryan and Eric exclamation point which is Ryan and his brother and I think like you guys are both the perfect example of doing not only what you really enjoy but playing to your strengths and then you know when I see this partnership and we talked about this I think a little bit in the networking episode this idea of identifying people who fill your gaps and understanding within yourself. What am I good

 

Ben Shelley: [00:18:34] at. And one of my bad. And how can I help my move my business forward. And this also good comes into this idea of looking at it from a tactical standpoint understand what your short and long term goals are. I think it's really important to you to ask yourself your question. I do agree that there's a lot of sort of these a lot of these intrinsic characteristics and be an entrepreneur but nevertheless I think oftentimes those same characteristics can lead to things like carelessness over aggression you know in terms of jumping into a business and so checking yourself and understanding what do I want to achieve today in a month from now in six months from now a year from now Ryan actually pings me with this email once in a while two years from now where do you want to be. And that's an important question to ask yourself when you're thinking about taking the leap as an entrepreneur.

 

John Errico: [00:19:14] But it's a great point.

 

John Errico: [00:19:15] I think you're prefigured in this idea of self-awareness and self identity and that's something that I find is can be very challenging. I have thought of myself as a very self-aware person but recently I have been reconsidering that and thinking that I could be a lot more self-aware. Self-aware about my own skills and capabilities and also my own goals and sort of what I'm achieving at what I'm doing. I mean I had a I have coffee with people a lot in the real estate space because they want to talk about real estate and I run a meetup. In fact we had one last night that Ben was I was a big success and if you then if you're in the northern New Jersey area feel free to check it out at meetup it's Hudson County real estate investors. But notwithstanding that I talked to people a lot and I tell them my story and tell them what I'm doing right now with with Ryan and the fund and construction other stuff and a lot of times people respond and they say wow I I'm so impressed I really want to be like you I wish I could be you I wish I could do this and I don't say that to to toot my own horn bit but almost every time someone says it my response is like really? Like, I'm surprised because the way that I see my path in entrepreneurship or real estate what they're going to say is like I'm not even getting started I mean I've just begun right. So and I have so much more that I want to do. And so it's like when people say like you've done so much you've accomplished so much it's like go I guess I mean I mean it's weird when you're in your own mind and you're working in your hustling and doing stuff that I think we are doing all the time. You don't have the perspective of being like well maybe I have accomplished some things that people would would value.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:20:54] I think we were actually talking about that the other day because there's there's plenty of stress and anxiety come that comes along with the nature of what we're doing. And one of the things we harped on is one of the things that we touched on the other day was the fact that we probably don't celebrate our wins as much as we should because there's always a fire to put out and there's always a new challenge or a new problem that we're faced with. So I think to that end I think it's it's in our nature to just look at the next task at hand and to focus on that rather than dwelling on whatever happened in the past. Both good and bad. But I think it is also important to sit back and maybe appreciate and count our blessings while we have them because there are plenty of people who would like to be in our shoes.

 

John Errico: [00:21:36] And yeah I think even on a personal level it's okay to say I'm good at this.

 

John Errico: [00:21:43] This is a this is something that I excel at that I'm better than other people and I think personally I don't do that almost at all. I don't ever sit back and I try to focus a lot on things that I'm not good at. But I very rarely sit down and say I'm actually good at this type of thing and in fact what I was doing real estate alone which was you know all of my real estate quote unquote career except for the past eight months or whatever you know six eight months when right and I started working together and Ben a little bit later I see something that you guys told me was it was really a revelation to me which was when we would SEO something that we do as we own a or primarily or exclusively Ryan runs a tax lean portfolio in East Orange and you it's kind of become our group project as well. But you know we we have to break into houses that Ryan's has foreclosed on or through his company has foreclosed on and something that I enjoy doing is physically breaking into houses.

 

John Errico: [00:22:43] And I didn't think anything of it because I had done that also for other contexts but I think you guys mentioned it to me or something like like you're very resourceful or like you're doing well you're uniquely good at it right and.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:22:54] It must have been the resourcefulness class you took at Yale.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:22:57] And like this is the guy I'm investing with I'm going to break into my house.

 

John Errico: [00:23:03] You said something to me about it and it just never occurred to me. It's something that's something that I that was unique or different about me just never. And and so when you said I was like OK like that I appreciated that right. I mean that that was great.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:23:17] We'll be sure to shower you with combat in the next few weeks. I don't say this is let me down not seeking out of it.

 

John Errico: [00:23:25] I'm just saying that sometimes to get self-awareness if they ask other people.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:23:29] Yeah I think it was ironically because we actually have a SO similar to how I've been pinging Ben about his goals. I had actually ping John somewhat recently about feedback and just to kind of and didn't respond at all.

 

John Errico: [00:23:43] Right. Right. So. So both of these guys I have sent separate emails to about things like this you know guys and I've gotten zero. I think about that e-mail almost every day. I seriously do. I was like I should respond to that. We're giving it you that we bring it up on this podcast even though we haven't responded yet. I do think about that this morning I woke I was like I should just like to write about that because I think it's so.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:24:08] So for context the email was essentially a instructions or a request that like John and I sit down and just kind of be honest with each other about kind of evaluating the other person. So the idea was for John to get a better sense of his strengths and weaknesses obviously like somewhat carefully worded but also honest enough for it to be effective. And likewise for him to do that to me because our intention is as we scale this thing up we want to be both focusing on our strengths working on our weaknesses but also figuring out how to allocate the resources that we do have. So if it becomes abundantly clear that John is very good at one thing that I may potentially not be as good at then that's obviously a task that is better suited to John than to me.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:24:59] And if there's something that neither of us are good at then it's something we when I do it is something we need to seek outside help for or put on but if I don't like this I just get that it's okay.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:25:12] There's no resentment.

 

John Errico: [00:25:14] Or Michael Gomez la Michael number one now I like what we have. Who's gentlemen. That's right. Exactly right.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:25:20] No I appreciate this and I'll tell you it like it you know. I don't want it. I don't wanna get too emotional here. But it's one of the things you do is when when guys like John and Ryan bring you into the fold you don't want to let them down. I think also one of the things I love about being an entrepreneur generally is you are uniquely reliant on the people around you. Those people who you do work with I think because you are on one hand completely alone in the sense that you are your own security blanket. But on the other hand you are also seeking out either partnerships whether by partnership. I don't just mean like like a John Ryan partnership I also mean partnerships like professional relationships and networking relationships that can help guide your individual effort forward. I mean everything I think is worth looking in a holistic context. And it comes back again to these questions that Ryan e-mails us to is is also understanding who are the people in your life both personally and professionally by the way personally.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:26:09] Being something we don't talk about as much that will help drive you not only you forward professionally from a worker standpoint but also your business overall as you begin to scale up your business and think about more of your long term goals and I think maybe it's important to recognize that it is important too to address and focus on your short term goals sometimes before you can dream big.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:26:29] Because we all dream of that and that's actually interesting when I'm sure John can opine on this too. But one thing that is very difficult to balance is these short term goals or short term needs with long term goals. I don't like to be brutally honest with you. This is a space real estate in particular that is particularly capital intensive and I don't know that I can speak for John on this front. But for for me I know that there are oftentimes where I have most cash or a lot of cash tied up in one or two deals and I may be cash poor property rich at any point in time which you know is not a necessarily bad position to be in but it might be a little less dire or it might be a little less stressful if I had some more of these like short term wins or if I had another source of income that was a little more stable and you know we're we're building these things out but it is it is a very tough dynamic to balance.

 

John Errico: [00:27:24] Absolutely. I mean I think right now both have been on every spectrum of finances personally financial issues and I've been lucky that my my wife has a great job has had a great job making a stable income but but I think it underlines this idea of one thing that I see a lot something that I've struggled with and I see it a ton of times and other people is that people oftentimes will not even talk about their goals like what they want to do and sometimes it's I think that there are a lot of reasons for that could be because they're embarrassed about it because I think sharing your goals is a very personal thing. It could be that they're they're scared you know kind of related to embarrassment but they're scared of not succeeding in it because if they say hey I'm going to whatever I want to make a million dollars this year whatever if I don't do that well people look at me and say you didn't make a million dollars so you know that's foolish. These are just voices in my head that I'm verbalizing let me just say that maybe maybe other people don't think this way. But another reason some that you wouldn't talk about goals is because they're afraid maybe that other people are going to steal their thunder or steal their you know whatever in the startup world tech startup world is still your idea or whatever it might be. And all those things are so destructive because talking about your goals and sharing with other people is in my experience the only way for it to happen. I mean I had a goal personally to do this private equity fund that was a personal goal that I had as far back as like two or three years ago and I never did anything really tell me anything about it. When I told Ryan that I want to do it and now we're doing it together. It's actually happening and that I mean there's there's no easier thing that I can say than just share what you're doing what you want to do.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:29:02] Oftentimes the fear is so unfounded because nobody when you have an idea you think it's the greatest idea in the world and so naturally you think that everyone is going to want to take your idea and run with it but oftentimes that is just unfounded. There's so much operational complexity or logistic complexity to achieving that goal that if somebody hears that idea even if they think it's the greatest idea in the world the chances of them actually acting upon it anyway are virtually zero.

 

John Errico: [00:29:30] It's a cliché but ideas are valueless and so they're only a prerequisite right.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:29:35] So oftentimes what you are doing is foreclosing on the opportunity to have a discussion that may ultimately be beneficial to you. And separately it's also valuable at least in my experience to talk about these things because I find that when I talk about something I feel like I have a duty to hold up my end of the bargain and I don't want to be known as somebody who just talks talks talks and doesn't act. So if I say something and I start talking to something if I start talking to people about something then I am that much more empowered and motivated to go and attack as we're doing.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:30:06] Yeah I mean. And I think I've heard you both say this John.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:30:08] I think I heard this you also say this specifically to some of the people that we've worked with which is don't be afraid of your own ambition right I understand that that as we've alluded to there is a personal aspect of this where you can be embarrassed about this but by sharing some of those goals and some both long term and short term you can get partnerships like this forming.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:30:27] The first step for anyone is just to start doing something and it's super overwhelming when you don't know where to start but oftentimes just studying your situation studying your goals and figuring out some kind of very broad path can bring you to the first action point which will then lead to the next. The next point the next domino and everything will kind of unfold from there.

 

John Errico: [00:30:52] I think it's such a great point. It's such a great point. I don't know how to just do it which is a great slogan as well but it's so many times I think questions will present themselves to me it's like will this work or you know how do I do this or how do I know this.

 

John Errico: [00:31:10] And the answer is always just do it and then you'll figure out if it's gonna work or not and you'll figure out what you need to do. You just need to do it. Don't don't think about it. I mean you can think about it to plan it but at some point just execute and then you figure it out.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:31:23] But understand like understand your downside or under it like be realistic about what your situation is. Don't use everything you have working against you as an excuse but understand that if you have four kids and are living paycheck to paycheck and have very few financial means understand that or understand what your downside looks like and figure out a path that takes you there with a little less risk or with a little less risk upfront maybe that means keeping your job and working on your goal in your off hours but but be aware of well.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:31:58] I think it's it's funny because so much of what we've talked about it talks about how some of the rewards of being an entrepreneur but how the nitty gritty can be so I don't wanna use the word depressing but it can be so tough that the pay off sometimes isn't always.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:32:14] Maybe you feel like it is worth the work that you put in all the time. And I know that for me personally again I thought I wanted to be an entrepreneur when I moved into the brokerage sphere. But when I knew that I really loved it as when I was actually enjoying making cold costs. I mean there were zero moments when I was making I mean literally hundreds of phone calls a week even. And I was enjoying the idea that my life my livelihood was based on the execution of the goal in front of me. And I don't know if that's we that's can be extrapolated into some kind of trait that that is that you find in other people who enjoy being entrepreneurial. But it's it's that kind of thing is is enjoying the little things maybe not accounting that's the one thing I don't enjoy doing.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:32:58] But but I will tell you that outside of that either do we. That's why I do it. Yeah that's shocking to hear it. I just.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:33:05] But just like for us analyzing deals getting looking up calms things little things like that where you think gosh that doesn't bother you argue. I think there's actually there's there's some excitement in that and there's some enjoyment in the whole process itself.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:33:19] Well it's interesting because the example you used of cold calling is such a clear case of knowing your strengths and knowing your interests and knowing your skills because that is something that I absolutely despise and I know there are a lot of real estate investors who make a lot of money on the basis of their cold calling skills but it's just not something that I think I could do I think there's a point at which I could do it effectively but I know it's something that I would always dread. So that's just another example of knowing yourself. The other thing I would say is a lot of these tasks that seem like they'd be dreadful or that seem like they would feel like a waste of time for you to do. There are quite a bit more rewarding when you're doing them for yourself and when you're doing it for some ultimate goal.

 

John Errico: [00:34:10] Yeah I mean the way that I think about it is almost like a utilitarian approach which is that doing what I'm doing is is I'm very confident that the greatest use of my abilities and I can if it's not I can easily make it that I never have the experience doing this where I show up to work and I'm like You know what I'm really a great X and I just don't have a chance to express that in my job. I never basically have that feeling doing what I'm doing. And that's a great feeling because if I think of myself as like a useful implement you know like a something to be deployed in the world what better way to deploy myself than to fully be using all of my skills and time and Yale education and efforts then what I'm doing I truly believe that. So that makes me very deep down on an existential level very happy.

 

Ryan Goldfarb: [00:35:10] It also comes back to having an end goal and a plan because if you didn't think that the end that you were working toward was worthwhile or if Ben didn't think that he wanted to be a broker chugging through all those cold calls or plunging those toilets or making your fourth home depot run of the day would be that much more frustrating. But when you know what the end is in mind and you can just chalk this up to another step on that journey and it's a little bit more palatable right.

 

John Errico: [00:35:37] I think it would be I think some of the things that we have done at least that I can recall doing would be literally unbearable if you couldn't pay me enough money to do it if not for the fact that I felt that I was building something that I cared about that was important to me. So if you find yourself if you want to be an entrepreneur and you find yourself having to do things that that and you don't like it then are you know you don't have to like it in the moment but if you don't like it in the context of what you're doing. I think that's a sign that maybe what you're doing is not the right path for you.

 

Ben Shelley: [00:36:11] It's a great point to finish. And for everyone listening out there. Remember to reach out to us on Facebook brick by brick that's brick X brick podcast. Remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcast and listen to us on iTunes and Spotify. Thanks so much for listening.