Power Serge - Hip Hop Hero - Noise of the Broke Boys - Episode 007

Power Serge, a CA bay area hip hop pioneer, talks about the difficult topics in hip hop and breakin', how they have affected his life, and forecasts for the future.

 

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A broke degenerate hooligan documents conversations about being a Bboy, Breakin', Hip Hop, Dance, Art, Music, Creativity, Innovation, and the slow subtle crumble of society in audio form.

 

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friends now onto the show

in today's episode I sit down with

someone who I've been acquainted with

since I was a young b-boy when I moved

from Sacramento to Oakland in 2015 this

man welcomed me into his studio like I

was an old friend I have an immense

respect for this guy and I'm excited to

bring him on the show he is an amazing

dancer event coordinator teacher in

California Bay Area hip-hop pioneer

please enjoy the episode with my good

friend Serge hello everybody and welcome

to today I have a great guest his name

is power surge he is from the beats and

pieces crew how you doing my friend man

I'm doing great so you are out here

doing like a workshop this this morning

right I mean all day really yeah yeah

there was a conference over at USC

hosted by Tiffany bong and there's been

like several iterations of it and I've

missed all of them and so I was like no

this year I want to go check it out so

yeah that's that's the reason I'm here

and basically the goal was to like share

different ideas between teacher dance

instructors dance professors yeah yeah

community exactly and in in this

specific conference it dealt more with

like health and wellness and so it was

super cool to you know refresh in pick

up some some new tools of the trade just

went as an educator so it was great yeah

I loved it enjoyed it yeah and so you've

been what I would say what hip-hop dance

professor for a long time now you work

at ohlone college do you work anywhere

else doing that

no no I'm strictly there yeah yeah okay

but so but you've been there teaching

kind of like oh I don't know the basics

of fundamentals of hip-hop and like

introducing it to people who maybe

otherwise wouldn't know anything about

hip-hop and mm-hmm

so how did you get into that yeah you

know

so I was a student there and I was very

much involved and the former hip-hop

teacher

Denise loosed oh she was a great mentor

you know and what I really loved about

her her I guess her teaching style it

was a little bit unorthodox but like it

just resonated with me in the sense that

like that structure and a lot of times

and in you know in our street dances or

how we picked it up there was no

structure

you know we created our own structure

and so that's kind of what I enjoyed

about her teaching and you know at some

point there was a transition and so the

teaching opportunity came up and because

I was so like involved at the time with

battles and I was traveling a lot no

director was basically like hey would

you be interested you know and for me so

it was like it was an opportunity you

know and that's one thing I will give it

up to you know the director is that

aloni who who just saw in me something

you know and so that was the foot in the

door and in a lot of ways it was a game

changer and so I guess before you

started doing that were they kind of

doing the same thing you were doing now

or like did you really revamp like their

whole program yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean

it was your your Street jazz is okay is

how the classes is on paper titled and

in that so that's kind of the case

across the board - yeah you know and so

but you're right I I kind of re not not

necessary where did it I just more so

like took it over you know not like no I

have a responsibility to this community

to make sure that I'm teaching it

holistically in how I learned it mm-hm

you know and so and it's it's it's it's

morphed over the years you know so so

okay so then before you got into that

you obviously were a b-boy

I guess when did you start breaking yeah

yeah yeah good point um so I started in

like 94 93 94 94 damn yeah I know it's

been a it's been a minute but when I

first started I started I started

popping you know so that was how I I

just it's in terms of just like

accessibility and what I saw that's just

immediately what I saw first yeah there

was always like the breaking movies you

know like break-in break-in to B Street

that was always kind of around but

poppin was the one that I gravitated

towards and then eventually just because

of the nature of the dances and how

closely they're related in terms of like

when you go to events they're just hand

in hand or at least they were back then

and so you know I just transitioned and

something about breaking it just it just

it felt right it marinated with me it in

a lot of ways I'm now kind of fine cuz I

sometimes like I've I've been on this

like this journey the past several years

now about understanding why that was so

impactful mmm you know and so but at the

moment it just it just clicked yeah a

lot of people have told me that um you

know they started breaking like at a

certain point in their life but it

always felt like something they were

like almost destined to do like they

were almost a b-boy before they even

knew it breaking yeah that's that's a

good point yeah yeah um in terms of

energy you know cuz I think that most of

these social dances there's just

different energies behind it and so

actually so I'm in a doctoral program

but right now and one of my professors

he he he broke it down really good

um and what he he said was basically was

like you know what growing up where I

did and he was like he grew up in East

Oakland yeah and I was like well I grew

up in South Hayward you know it's

different but you know there's still a

lot of similarities in terms of just the

struggles and

you know similar scenarios in the

pressures and what I mean by pressures

was being like Latino in the hood it was

like you know I had to be on one you

know soon as I step outside it's like

okay why looking at me you know like why

you know like I had to kind of play that

the card otherwise I did either punked

or bullied you know like it was yeah and

so it was like and so the way my

professor put it was that he wasn't at

zero he had to be like he was always on

ninety you know like people don't go

0-200 he was like I was I'd go 90 to 100

right cuz almost anything would set you

off and I was like yo yes that was me

walking around so was I got a pent-up

energy and so it being introduced to

breaking you know was just it was that

yeah it was just like that I needed that

energy that today well then I didn't

know but today and you know when I look

back I'm like yeah that was such a

healer for me that's how I dealt with my

traumas and you know in a lot of ways I

didn't have to be I mean in a lot of

ways like I was always at 90 and then

through breaking it was like 80 70 you

know because uh-huh it in a lot of ways

it saved me from from going

yeah those vices exactly yeah the dark

the darkness ya know um I always felt

like like once I found breaking it was

like I felt like I was destined to do

that because I was always just you know

I mean I've been I've been into like art

my whole life my mom is an artist you

know my dad is somewhat of an artist as

well my grandpa in their own way I mean

this this table was made by my dad so

he's like a furniture maker oh man a

contractor um so I've been kind of

around like the creative mine mentality

my whole life and you know so I was

always doing different things I did a

lot of martial arts and stuff and um I

don't know I always was looking for

something that where it like it was mine

it was something that I make and I could

just say this is this is my

yeah so you know I did martial arts for

a long time and it was always like oh

you gotta kick this way you gotta do

this and I was like okay I'm secure shit

and then when I found breaking I don't

know it was kind of like I did something

a certain way and people were like oh

that's cool you figured out your own way

to do that and I was like oh that's

tight it's like encouraged to do this

and so that's when it really like hit me

that this is what I really should be

doing yeah I've always been really into

music - so once I found it and it's

always like high-energy you know

drumbeat patterns and stuff and so I was

always into that type of music so then I

was like oh that's what these guys dance

to all the time dude this is for me and

so it really felt like you know I was

destined to do it I guess yeah so I was

a b-boy before I even knew it breaking

yeah yeah yeah yeah and I think you

touch on you you know there's a lot to

unpack and what you just you know just

sit there you know because I've equally

been thinking about that too you know

people get into hip-hop for various

reasons you know they're the attraction

is there's a lot of social capital and

just like you build credit you know like

you build and and so for me it was like

moreso of a coat of armour you know like

it it kind of protected me it's it I

guess I became the the breaker you know

certain people weren't necessarily

headhunting for me it was like oh yeah

you know so it's saving it in that sense

but it was a hood pass yeah and a lot of

ways yeah yeah you know like all the

gangsters were like all right you know

we're not gonna roll around on the

ground all right he's exactly angbang

yeah and then there's the other aspect

that like you touched on that I've

equally have been kind of like trying to

understand you know like well why why is

that why why why do we get a pass you

know and you know so I've been I've been

reading up on something call like male

hegemony which is like hegemony is

basically like a grid right like what we

view as and in this specific scenario

male masculine like like where do you

where do we stand in

scale right yeah and so if I were to say

like well what's our view on a

successful American male you know a lot

of people like well maybe a white guy

you know like well that that's who I

view as successful you know well then

where do we where do we see a successful

Latino right and then probably be like a

little bit lower in the scale right and

then like well where do you put a

successful Latino b-boy you know then

it's like I get a little bit more right

and then what if we were like well where

do we put a you know a white dancer yeah

you know like he his credit kind of

drops huh but where do we put a white

guy that break-dances it's like de you

know and so and so then I've been

looking like okay these are some of the

frameworks that society imposes on us

that we don't necessarily begin to if we

don't have the tools or the the

hindsight to even fathom that you know

it's like how would we even but those

are the stuff that I'm like okay you

know hip-hop breaking affects so many

different people in different ways you

know what worked for me is not gonna

necessarily well what the reason I got

into it's not necessarily the same way

because people have different answers

you know they're it's cliche people like

you saved my life you know some people

like the girls that you know the

attention you know but those are way

different reasons to dance on this

podcast I usually ask this question and

I've gotten so many answers right it's

like a lot of it yeah girls or it saved

my life or whatever you know yeah yeah

yeah and so then we know that we know

that breaking and hip-hop

touches on different wavelengths yeah

understanding that like what what you

know and at the end a I guess what I'm

getting at is that once we start

understanding all these different

reasons why we ultimately start

understanding that like whoa it's it's

still on some oppressive structures you

know like yeah I don't know that the

oppression I guess I don't I don't fully

understand all that cuz I don't know I

guess

when I look at the oppression it's like

I don't feel like we're super oppressed

in a way where we can't do it but I

think there is a social weirdness to

what we do that is maybe still around

and maybe that is the oppression I don't

know yeah yeah because it's not I don't

have people coming up to me going like

you know little break dancers and you

get right get in the back of the bus

like that doesn't happen but I don't

know I do think hip-hop does kind of get

a bad name for some reason or another

right right right and so even that like

I've been trying to understand too you

know cause like growing up it was like

telling you know my parents are like I'm

doing this art form you know be like

what you know they just didn't

understand yeah and what they don't with

what what they viewed it as is like oh

you're doing this this art form that was

birthed in the african-american diaspora

so automatically it's a lesser value

right it's like I don't you know you

stop doing that because it's portrayed

as such it okay you know so it was like

you need to stop doing that

but yet understanding that like no no

but this is given me a voice you know

this is for some reason I feel like

liberated I feel like I can become not

just Sergio I'm like PowerSearch now

like a creator superhero yeah yeah again

it gave us a pass you know and so that's

kind of what I'm referring to in the

sense that like it it did a lot for us

you know in a lot of different lights

but recognizing where it's theoretically

you know where it's birth you know in

understanding that like okay why why is

this art form viewed as lower-class you

know and then other things I've been

studying is is being in education is

that like well we hold art well

Eurocentric middle class we hold that

type of art to a higher standard that's

why it's taught in education you know so

as

we go through the system we're just

taught that that's higher art and

because hip-hop is you know and in many

ways birth in the african-american

mmunity it's like automatic like it's

lower value because it's different it's

it's it's from these community that that

were one red line but you know they're

just of lower not lower status but in

the eyes of just society I wonder if

it's because like you say higher art as

in like you know let's say Roman

architecture Roman art that stuff we

look at that as some intellectual

activity to study that but then hip-hop

maybe not

I wonder if it's mainly because hip-hop

really hasn't paid its dues in that in

the history of you know our species

really like cuz it's only been around

right 50 years or so you know 60 years

whereas you know obviously Roman art has

been around since freaking I don't know

1000 BC or whatever I don't know yeah

yeah yeah so I wonder if it's maybe that

- yeah yeah well I don't know that's a

good point and and and to to that I I

heard for those of us that are in

education pushing hip-hop I you know I

advise us a tread very carefully you

know because when we look at and we

start seeing the commodification of

hip-hop now right like breaking I I it's

already being commodified you know like

me and and when why is that like you

know why is it that like when I got

hip-hop it was through like clips of a

music video there was like a couple kids

on on literally on cardboard yeah at my

elementary school do it you know it was

like super rooted in the community you

know and and now when i get when i

receive hip-hop it's like you know these

magical short clips of people flying you

know which is it's it's it's just being

commodified right like and and not

enough I guess not enough community

right so my perception as a new kid is

like oh cool that's

breaking people flying and doing these

amazing moves and and OHS and you know

what gets left out is that that that

initial piece of community you know and

so as as as an educator I just I advised

us to tread very carefully mainly

because we have seen other art forms get

commodified like rock and roll yeah you

know like tap like jet you know like

these were these were our forms birthed

in the African American diaspora yet

somehow they've lost their voice

you know they got commodify they're like

when you think of rock and roll people

think of Elvis and I'm like no that's

not you know like well why can't there

be there's a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

we as Americans you know we know who the

great rock and roll artists are but can

we say that for hip-hop you know kids

should know who the top five and you

know but yeah and so you know it's it's

like and that's kind of what I'm getting

as like at what point are we at the

verge of losing it you know and if we

continue down that path you know my fear

is that it will be yeah that it would be

it would become more of like like a

mainstream I guess is we're trying to

get exactly yeah you know it's it'll

it'll be high art yeah yeah we don't we

start we see that you know it's social

capital and society is immense you know

we do know that white in America is the

biggest consumer of it you know we know

that and it's a kids all over this

country consume it daily you know top 5

billboard albums are hip hop songs you

know so it is it's it's in a lot of ways

already there but when it comes to the

arts there's still that like off balance

you know so we know that the

entertainment business is like the last

you know white supremacist races you

know industry left you know there's

typecasting unfortunately yeah you know

Latino or a black and brown person

probably isn't gonna play Cinderella you

know you start seeing that I could be a

ninja maybe right well yeah you're gonna

plate the typecast you're gonna play a

cholo that's I'm saying right like and

so we know that yeah I see and so like

because I kind of see you know I think

of hip-hop

I also think of hip-hop arts you know

like this is dance music it's it's and

so it's it's just you know we're playing

into this structure that has yet to

fully embrace an art form

that is gonna rebel against it so yeah a

lot oh yeah I see you know so in a lot

of ways it's it's got a it's got a it

likes it you know it likes it loves

hip-hop it's you know it's it's kids

consume it its yeah and so how do we how

do we change the lens on it yeah the way

I mean I'm glad you bring this up

because this is exactly why I started

the podcast because I was always seeing

like some bullshit in Hollywood like

portraying hip-hop as you know yeah and

I'm like that ain't hip-hop that's some

wax fucking shit yeah and so I wanted to

do this podcast to talk to real hip

hoppers to show what it's all about and

you know obviously I've been bringing on

mostly b-boys dancers and stuff because

I think it's that side of hip-hop

doesn't really get much shine it's

always like oh yeah it's that dude that

did a flip in the background of you know

freaking Beyonce's music video yeah

that's most people don't even know that

that is hip-hop but you know I think a

lot of people would be shocked to know

that

hip-hop music probably wouldn't even

exist if a b-boy wasn't ever at that you

know party with you know Kool Herc out

there going oh I want to see that dance

move again let me play this break again

boo boo boo oh now the break is invented

let's start rapping over it you know

what I mean

that wouldn't have happened if there

wasn't a b-boy there right so I don't

think most people know that yeah yeah so

I see I see Hollywood really dictating

what hip-hop is and it annoyed me a lot

and that's why I wanted to start a

podcast to shine more of a light on like

what the hip-hop that I know and

hopefully other people will see that and

go

okay there's more to the story than what

I see on TV right right right

and and we need to advocate you know we

need to so you know there's this push on

you know the Olympics oh yeah and and I

and I see you know various you know

discussions and and I've been on a panel

to about it and you know and it's it's

it's great I'm not even I'm 100% for it

just because of the opportunities at all

right guys yeah my my only you know

concern is is you know if it goes down

that route will it become more for the

kids that have rather than the kids that

don't have you know I see because of its

popularity trust me that more studios

are gonna want to get involved you know

like and so it's to me it's still part

of that you know we love hip-hop but

like we don't want it for all this

baggage you know we don't want it from

all of its we want it because it's just

it's it gets views it's it's it's

impressive but I don't need to hear all

the other stuff you know so yeah in some

ways it's kind of strings you know and

so that's that's yeah that's it I think

there's that's a good argument for maybe

against Olympics but it's I think I

think there's a there's an argument to

be made that breaking really should be

going in that in that path but the

community should have the whole you know

we should have the hold on it you know

where we can oh yeah we can say what

we're doing with it and how how it's

gonna be portrayed cuz that that's the

one thing I'm really worried about with

with Olympics is that if you're gonna

get a whole bunch of new people in

coming and I think that's great but also

if they're seeing you know hip-hop yeah

yeah and then they come in and they and

they see freaking yeah you know grimy

ass hip-hop and they're gonna be like oh

wait this isn't what I was expecting

but it's like that is what you should

have been expecting yeah and

unfortunately it wasn't portrayed that

way yeah yeah yeah absolutely

and and I think you know that the point

like you know who who's got a hold of it

mm-hmm you know and and do we have a

hold of it you know and so it's yeah

there's a lot of layers to this and you

know as a community we just we really we

have to put emotions aside you know and

understand and you know I spoke to Kent

Swift he was on this panel with me and

he kind of said it the best he was like

well who needs who we already have

Championships oh yeah yeah you know and

I was like yeah we do you know so in

theory who need to you know like why

yeah that's a good that's a good point

yeah exactly kind of I was like yeah

that's right we already have

Championships why do we need this extra

metal

I guess the benefit really is to just

expand it but we have Championships we

have a big community a big rich

community you know of you know rich in

terms of like culture yeah and so really

the only benefit really is to just kind

of expand that to places where it might

not have reached yet yeah yeah I think

it's important to do but yeah we also

got to do that yeah and I get it you

know because at the root of it I think

it comes to again opportunity which

translate into financials you know like

and and you know being that we we are in

a capital society where cash rules

everything around me mm-hmm

then of course it makes sense yeah you

know like and you know for a lot of us

we do struggle unfortunately like it's

it's the payoff aren't necessarily we

get paid off in you know we get

celebrated we get but you know for a lot

of us are like well yo we're getting to

the point where like we really need to

see some financials like stability here

and so I understand that push but lets

you know you we've got to be very

careful yeah yeah no it it is

it I do think that it would be amazing

to see you know some world champion

b-boys that are like you know legit

stars you know with you know making

making their fortune from just doing

this but I also don't want to see you

know the culture take a hit yeah yeah

yeah where if you want that to happen

you gotta be like a sellout a little bit

right right right I would think is very

unfortunate and I think most that's how

most people in the community probably

feel and so I think we we're in good

hands in that sense but yeah I mean I

guess just being you know aware of where

this possibly could go and just yeah not

being closed-minded to it but being

smart about it yeah yeah yeah and and

you know what I I believe that there's

plenty of folks doing the other side of

the work you know which is that

community aspect and and there's a lot

of people who who just they just don't

get their shine you know just because

like they're not winning or they're not

you know trying or you know social media

you know followers or whatever I don't

need it but it's what's the word

but yeah influencers you know like that

they don't you know and so we need to

fix that narrative as well yeah you know

that like eight yeah just because he's

not an influencer but just because like

he he's not winning that doesn't mean

he's not qualified to judge or to speak

on it or to you know and and there's a

vast community you know like there's a

lot of us and in in that's the work

that's how it's gonna balance out

otherwise I think with that a lot of

people don't understand

some people's perspective because like

that person who like maybe doesn't have

an Instagram following or whatever

social media presence doesn't go out

winning all these huge competitions and

they go oh he's just not successful but

it's like ah it might not be that it

might be that this guy you know is a

very good dancer you know

member of the community he just doesn't

want to do he or she doesn't really want

to do that maybe that's just not part of

what they're doing but doesn't mean that

they're not qualified to do it I mean I

would say if you're if you've been in

this scene for you know as long as some

of these people that I know that happens

you know basically zero social status I

guess within the community um I would

trust their opinion over a lot of other

people that do have that social status

for sure so yeah yeah yeah you know just

because I know what they are capable of

and what you know I've learned from a

lot of them you know and I wouldn't be

what I am now as a dancer if I hadn't

encountered them so I imagine so many

people have encountered people like that

yeah 100% yeah 100% for sure I mean I

would say the community is built on

people like that and so uh I don't know

yeah yeah yeah you know and you're right

there's a lot of folks that just just

don't get that shine you know and

celebrating them and recognizing them

for the work that they do because it's

it's a it's it's not you know there's

like no props there's no it's it's it's

a it's a lonely path you know it's uh

it's difficult it's you know the rewards

aren't necessarily seen a lot of times

like immediately and so you know I and

and and we have to kind of understand

where we're and why that is and again

it's like there's a push to theirs and I

understand that that the essence you

know it was about making a name for

yourself you know and we just strap the

rocket on that concept and now it's like

it's all it's that's where it's all

about but yeah you know and in a lot of

ways it's it's know like it was that was

specific to a community you know but

like what the essence is is really bring

about it's really bringing people

together you know those jams

you know like in in vibing out to music

and you know kind of rebelling towards

the system

you know and so it's it's like those

contests weren't around in the seventies

you know that's like a idea concept that

came in later yeah you know and so like

you mean to tell me that everything's

now about the contest mm-hmm you know

like people don't even stick around when

they lose now like they losing prelims

don't make top 32 and they're out yeah

they're not even there for quote-unquote

community they're literally there for

the contest yeah you know and so and I I

can naively assume that that this

happens fairly like often yeah you know

and so what we're if that's the path

that we're headed and we're gonna go

Olympics and we're you know like it's

okay there's waiting we there needs to

be more of an emphasis on you know this

community type of work so yeah yeah I

mean there's been a huge shift in like

the way events take place because it's

all competition base where you know when

I first started it wasn't necessarily

that it was kind of like show up to this

thing there's music you know and then

you'll be battling people there might

not even be like a competition it's just

battling yes I don't like yeah they're

just plain it's a DJ it's not even a

breaking event it's like just music and

like you know there's this a roller

skating rink in sac that they used to do

this and it was just like dancing right

you just go there in high school or

whatever and then you just be dancing

but then they're all it'd be a freaking

Jam though yeah who's all over the place

and you're just battling and stuff and

so you know but then yeah obviously

there's you know a little bit of money

that's started getting involved with all

these competitions let's do you know

let's set up like some rules and say

okay three person per crew or whatever

going at it we're gonna do a tournament

tournament style and then the winner

gets this pot of money or what right

right I mean that the small lucrative

nests of it I think just kept growing

and mm-hmm that's what drove it so then

that became in the forefront of the

and I think the essence of it which is

just the dancing right you know and

having a good time just showing you know

showing what you're all about is maybe

in the back burner a little bit no yeah

yeah yeah yeah and to be perfectly clear

like I am not against that yeah I'm

against it yeah I love me a good jam lie

down like some dope draw battles yeah

but yeah no I think we don't want to

lose that other part of it right and you

know or at the very least I would say

hey if you're teaching these these art

forms

you know maybe hold off yeah well here's

the state here's the deal like I

understand that the the impact on

bringing students to these events

because it's like they get it you know

it's like you're teaching them a

language that like you know it's like

what what it what what see see what's

footwork what's you know it's like until

they see it until they see the language

being spoken and converse then they get

it you know you're like okay now I

understand and in unfortunately there's

just not many events that focus on the

actual jam right it's very contests like

sign up wristband sign up here if you're

entering Brack you know like it's very

you know and in it's it's a it's a lot

these jams are like you know sometimes

when they start top 16 you're just like

okay geez I've got a I'm gonna be here

for a while you know and then like 30

minute break and then a top eight and

then you know and it's just like that's

a lot yeah you know it's it's a lot to

kind of take in whereas if it was you

know and the essence of a jam is a party

right so I understand it's as but what I

would argue is like maybe not that put

off taking your students to these events

but more so let's change the narrative a

little bit let's let's take it back to

you know you know skating ring hey yo

there so and so let's let me test myself

let me yeah you know let me just don't

fall in love with the real hip-hop and

write and introduce them to competitions

and be like okay this is

sometime you can also do right exactly

rather than already kind of puttin them

on it on a contest track yeah you know

because then you're you're not cuz then

you just have contests b-boys that's it

you know I you know that's cool and all

but I I don't know I feel like there's a

there's a chapter in the book that's

missing mmm you know good point yeah

yeah so okay so yes so Olympics wise so

you're on board with with that I'm on

board with it as well and in terms of

like mainstream hip hop because I mean

obviously I think on the track we're

going hip hop is gonna become more and

more mainstream where do you see hip hop

not necessarily breaking like music

where do you see that going and what is

your what is your view on like music

today yeah um you know the fact that I

mean I love music

III love anything that is passionately

made I don't I don't I can't necessarily

knock any any form of music style I'll

dig anything that is just like I said as

long as it's passionately made there's

some genuine talent behind it then then

I'm with it I'm like yo this this this

is this is singing to me you know so I I

love music in terms of hip-hop you know

I grew up in a time where the music was

a little bit more conscience you know

like it was just more conscious based

and so it's it's I missed that you know

I'm the I'll be quite frank that like a

lot of times like man the good old days

you know like up I'll throw that card

around and you know and and I also

recognize that like that's silencing you

know how is it that there's like a

couple white guys that that own all of

the hip-hop album you know like record

companies how is that even how is that

seriously you know and so I don't think

that much will change you know I think

that as we some of us start jumping into

education and you know which we equally

need to be

careful but as long as we we continue

advocating for it you don't have no no

no you know hip hip hop was a means to

fight white supremacy in a lot of ways

you know it was like and and as long as

we can continue pushing those narratives

in education you know I I think you will

start seeing that shift you know but it

it's it's a it's gonna be it's a group

effort you know at every single aspect

like from the education from the

contestants from you know from the folks

that are filming this stuff from these

podcasts from like it's it's it's gonna

be a communal it's got to be a communal

shift in order to start seeing that

hip-hop that we want to see and it's

just not even just the beat it's like in

graffiti and deejaying and an MCN it's

just got to be a communal shift to be

like what hold up to your point earlier

like let's let's let's grab a hold of it

first and and like let's put push it in

in the in the way or in the means that

we want to see it you know cuz right now

it there's a lot of aspects of it that

we don't control yeah and so you think

that um white supremacy has something to

do with that yeah and and and again when

I think of the the experience of African

Americans you know like okay whoa there

was like a business model to bring you

know Africans to America and it was like

this the transatlantic trade slave or a

slave trade you know and like that was a

business model I was like how can i how

can I get these people to come here to

work this land to kind of you know

bolster us like to kind of boost our

economy and so you know slavery for 400

years and then you have Jim Crow for

another hundred and then you you you

tell foes like then you redline I'm like

not you can't move to the suburbs you're

staying right here in these in these

quote-unquote ghettos you know and so

you know african-americans had to be

resourceful like there's no counselors

or anything like what do they do they

start you know playing instruments they

start singing they you know so there's

there's

I attribute a lot of it you know a lot

of it goes back to that duck just pain

and suffering that they were going

through yes it was born out of some sort

of oppression a little bit yeah I mean

like look at you know during the slave

era we know that African Americans could

not get educated if if they had if if

they knew you were trying to learn how

to read or write you'd be killed on the

spot like it'd be if you were a slave

master trying to kill you

equally would be hungry you know so it

was like so that's where each one teach

one comes from because they had to

secretly secretly teach each other yeah

you know so like and that's something we

toss around like nothing like each one

teach one yeah knowing that it's deep

roots you know we also know that during

this era that you know languages were

stripped you know like you couldn't just

say like hey guess what I'm going up to

the north you had to flip words so

rapping was invented yeah you know like

they flip things you know and so

language and in terms of rapping and how

we flip things that idea flipping

something you know like Grandmaster Caz

something said some to me that was

pretty profound bunch of years ago he

said hip-hop didn't invent anything it

reinvented everything and it kind of

needed to because of the structures that

were in place right and so when I say

hip-hop was meant to fight white

supremacy it 100% was and in those

regards

you know and so you know so it's like

how do we how do we continue honoring

that how do we continue knowing that

that this was a tool for this group and

I've used it to find my own voice I just

know that I have to pay respect to it I

stand here in solidarity to it and what

can I do you don't like and this is my

way of making sure that I don't

necessarily take the good you know cuz

there's a saying like although they'll

take our rhythm but not our blues you

know and so I don't want to be that guy

that just takes the rhythm like you

I'm gonna stand and fight with you yeah

I see I see what you're saying yeah it's

it's it was like born out of the or

ree-ree born out of the same oppression

and then I guess used against it

in a cultural way and now that you're

seeing it you know more and more

ethnicities being being involved with it

we're just seeing the good the good the

fun part of it but we're not seeing the

struggles that it was born of and I

think ya know I I agree with that that

we need to respect the way that it was

invented I guess yeah yeah and and it's

not even just breaking in hip-hop you

know it was like there was a couple

policies that went in place in the 60s

you know with president lyndon b johnson

whether it was the civil rights movement

there was like the Secondary Education

Act you know we're more funding schools

were well school got desegregated and so

this this law was passed we're like

let's let's send more money to these

communities of color you know and most

of the time the folks at the the the

school systems that would receive it

would be like nah this money's gonna go

for us you know and African Americans

were bused to Y communities but why

communities weren't bused to African

American community yeah you know it

didn't go both ways

and so you know so a lot was happening

music played a huge role you know when

we think of like J's Brown like get

involved get into it you know like

that's super powerful like he's

literally telling people like you know

did you shit together

yeah get-get up let's get involved you

know get into it you know everybody over

here get involved everybody over there

get into it you know like that's

powerful and so he wasn't just speaking

to kids in the Bronx yeah he was

speaking to kids everywhere and so it's

no surprise to me that you have Google

Oakland Boogaloo pop-up and in this late

60 70s you know locking here here in LA

you know like there's all the social

movements start

to sprout literally in the span of a

decade like why is that you know and

yeah you you know like recognizing that

as well I don't think that it's a whole

hip-hop thing I think it's just like all

these social movements are connected

yeah in a lot of ways no III agree with

that i I I guess when I hear you know I

guess the term racism and stuff kind of

thrown around it always like bothers me

because I'm like I feel like we all just

need to get over that because you know I

I just I just hate that you know we're

we're sitting in a community of hip-hop

where there's like so many races now

that are like enjoying it and having fun

and stuff and and experiencing it and

then we're still going like all racism

this racism that and that bothers me

because yeah I think it feeds it a

little bit I mean I but I do agree with

you that we need to respect where it

came from right so in a way it's like

respecting your ancestors I think that I

can get on board with that but I also

think it's like you know let's also go

okay this is a chapter in history let's

read the let's read the chapter but also

go okay we're now in this community

together and we're gonna make it a good

community whether whatever race you are

that's that's what I feel it yeah yeah

yeah yeah and and so I I would you know

if I I'll push back a little bit and and

I'll say that you know there's still a

lot of injustice --is currently

happening in communities of color like

that is you know we can't negate that

there there was you know when hip-hop

when it was introduced or when it was

like when it was you know first

highlighted it was on it was on the jam

vibe you know like hip-hop or it you

know like well not even that's like 90s

but like you know it was very more like

an emcee was just there to you know pump

up the crowd like you know as it became

more mainstream

you know through the 80s you start

hearing some things but you know late

80s Early 90s that's when you start

really hearing some conscience stuff you

know there's a reason why in deputy 8a

you know came out that out or that song

if the police you know like that is that

is really powerful yeah you know and and

why would these why would these you know

eight six seven eight you know young

black men be screaming about that why

would they ya know so we can't we can't

deny that there's in justices in these

communities that still currently

happened today yeah you know and so that

voice I feel you know we're kind of

losing it you know and so until when I

so when I see other b-boys or community

people like you know be practicing this

and then not be for black lives matter

I'm like you do you see the irony in

this yeah you know like I guess when I

see that I hate I hate putting a race to

it cuz it's like you know you go F the

police I feel like it's more you're

saying F the man at the system if the

the things that are oppressing me right

it might be that there's a certain group

of white individuals that are maybe

doing that but I hate to point the

finger just at white that's that's

alright that's where I go because sure I

I think in that sense of what we're

speaking on now is classism classism

yeah you know I can get behind that you

know and and and classism has no color

lines yeah you know like sure you know

like shoot if you don't make I mean in

terms of classism I mean you could be

white and if you're not making that

market you're straight trash you're

straight white trash you know like chill

seriously you know it's so like there's

classism but we also can't necessarily

like deny that there's just systemic

racism you know so you know and I get it

a lot of times we were just not gamed up

on this vocabulary this understanding

but classism is equally real mmm-hmm you

know and so you know and you're right

like it's it's it's it's tough for me

sometimes you know like

the word race and I don't know it's a

it's a it's a tough subject but like you

know hip-hop needs to hip-hop had you

know was burst off of those discussions

and it needs to continue those those

discussions and I think that's that's

one of the reasons of the fear in

institution and in like oh I don't know

I don't know like if I want that entire

baggage yeah you know kind of to what we

were talking about earlier and so you

know we just for those that like you

know ultimately I would argue everyone

needs to be pushing this you know like

it's the only way we're gonna stop

seeing police officers shooting our

black brothers and sisters you know this

is what you know and so but again you

know it's it's a we do need to have

those conversations yeah does it have to

happen every every every moment know we

can literally continue the peace love

unity and having fun yeah you know but

being but recognizing that peace love

unity having fun was specific to a

community who were murdering each other

you know but I think a lot of time it

gets kind of taken out of context well

no no no let me let me take that back

it's it's exactly what that is peace

love you didn't haven't fun yeah you

know but at at its core it was meant for

this specific community be like yo

idiots you're killing each other that's

what the man wants yeah yeah I guess

yeah what I what I what bothers me is

when we put a color to it and go you

know black this white this it's more

like idiot this you know good person

this I think that's III just rather get

behind that you know whereas like

because like I think whether you're

whatever race you can you can see

injustice at least if you open your eyes

to it and that's what we need to focus

on it but then when we're going like oh

it was caused by white this white that

and I mean yeah in a way yeah from

history

a lot of it probably stems from

somewhere in in slave slavery times or

whatever but I look at it like we're

at this point we're you know we're all

here and I don't know I mean nobody

alive probably has ever owned a slave

and so I feel like we can't do anything

about our history but we can do

something about what's going on right

now and that is like in justices that

maybe still exist because of it and

maybe have evolved to something else

let's fight that and it just always

bothers me when we go like let's point

the finger at a certain color because

it's it I think the jet that

generalization doesn't exist anymore to

me at least you know because I cuz again

like I've seen you know white white

people in the same situations as black

people maybe it's not as many because

you know because of historical reasons

but I don't want to discount that it's

still there you know same thing Asian

communities Latino communities I don't

know yeah yeah I just hate I just hate

when we jump into the race right right

yeah and then I'll just you know to cap

it like this is just one where we'll

agree to disagree you know that I'll

definitely we'll continue fighting for

like yeah but you know they're they're

they're they're still super relevant

I've experienced it and there's just you

know this is you know this country is

based on like colonialism you know like

I wouldn't go to school I was an ESL

student and so I was putting in in a

portable with kids with disabilities

because I didn't speak the language of

power you know I didn't speak it well

enough you know and and and then I

started speaking the vernacular of those

in my community and then it was just

like oh he's low class you know because

I yo I speak like this you know I'm

saying like um and in other words just

because like I know what that means you

know there's there's color attached to

that you know and so now that like I'm

gamed up with with degrees and I have

you know these extra letters next to my

name you know it's like okay now you'll

respect me you know because I'm playing

your game you know and so and and that's

why education is import

to me because like yeah I can I can bark

all day but I need some teeth to bite

you know and and and in this you know

the society that we're in unfortunately

you know education is attached to that

power you know there is a culture of

power and education is tied to that in a

lot of times it's not accessible to

everyone it's not you know we we are

there's a reason why dropout rates are

so high in black and brown communities

you know we just know and that's just

not there's a reason why you know and

and again like but it's it's a it be I'm

gonna I'm gonna argue with its its

racial unfortunately you know because

there's the way this this whole society

was just birth is on like I said

colonialism like when people say like we

speak English in this country I'm like

where where does that's where is that

written in the you know in the

Constitution where show me where it's

written and it's not you know we've just

said we've just accepted this you know

Eurocentric ideology that this is how

it's gotta be you know and why is that

like there's so probably just because a

lot of people speak it that's probably

yeah well I mean it's it's it's the

culture it's a language of power yes you

know like it 100 percent is like why

can't I speak my Spanish in and this is

native land we're in Los Angeles you

know what are you kidding me like how is

that even yeah you know and you know

people say like well a men like we cross

no borders that border crossed us you

know and so and so you know again it's

it's a it's it's a lot it's a lot to

take in

it's what it comes down to is like kinda

like the matrix you know you can either

take the red pill and see how deep the

rabbit-hole goes or you take the blue

pill guess what you're still strapped

into the matrix and so be it and so not

everyone's introduced to to this you

know what we're talking about I know

that potentially one of the things that

I'm saying is they're a little bit more

in depth but I do feel people want to

hear it

you feel that people like after they

wonder I think people also need to hear

you know like now whether people relate

to it or marinate weight on it

that's uh that's that you know that's

that's up to debate you know sure if any

marinate with you and whatever you can

but you know there's there's it's it's

deep I get that yeah I I mean I can

agree that there's like maybe some kind

of racists historically baked into it

somewhere and we have grown into where

we are now but I I it's hard for me to

get behind the idea that there's some

like evil freaking mastermind going like

I hate this race right right it's more

of like we all grew up in you know

society has grown the way it is and so I

guess I look at it more as like this is

where we're at right now so let's fix

this and stop yeah just stop fighting

each other racially that's that's what I

hate sure sure sure sure sure and like

what I really really bothers me is when

I see like someone who who who's trying

to do good by pointing at at something

some injustice and then also pulling in

race to the to the argument because I

think I feel like it just serves to

divide people in a way it's kind of like

I don't know it's like saying sports

teams and stuff you know I don't know

you get what I'm saying

I I do I do I do and and you know I I

get it because like it's it's like when

you go oh this group here did this it

but it's not like you're pointing the

finger at them here you're pointing at

maybe their ancestors or something that

helped bake it into the culture that we

have now yeah and yeah there's and

there's why I hate it because I go your

sports team from hundreds of years ago

did something and bam you're still a

part of that sports team you know what I

mean and that's what bothers me a lot

because it's just serving to divide me

and you

and you know other people yeah I I

understand you know I I think that you

know a hundred years ago well let's just

put our like six hundred years ago those

forefathers you know those European

Americans other settlers or you know

they came and they constructed something

on the backs of people of color yeah you

know and pretty much just like you know

we're like cool it's built it's built

you know and and that's it you know and

but people say like the system's broken

it's not broken it's it's meant it it's

meant to be this way you know and so

generations generations later compounded

it's it's why a lot of us will say like

well well yeah it's just that's that's

old school

it's baked in and we go oh this is what

were you yeah so you know a green yeah

inks that that's right yeah agreeing

that it's it's it's baked in and it may

not affect others as much as you know

people of coke you know like it just it

just but it is it's you know like well

why if if it's equal then why why are

african-americans you know jail the more

well how's that I don't know I don't I

don't agree that it's equally everything

is equally treated right now I think

right there is a lot of right and

justice is going in terms of that and it

and there's something that we need to do

about it right and I don't st. have

using language that still divides us in

that same way you know what I mean you

know I like I said I get it I understand

it like these are conversations that I

have with my peers like on the daily

like it is like how do we how do we

change that narrative how do we you know

it's it's it's difficult and like I said

it's it's these are just difficult

conversations and I'm super glad we're

having this and I hope the folks at that

like our listening are like you know

they're hearing two sides yeah in a lot

of ways and this is this is a super dope

debate and this is what it's about

you know like hey if we end up here like

agreeing to disagree so be it like I

mean I don't think I really disagree I

think it doesn't change our

friendship like I'm here to catch you

later and be like yo what the f hole

like what's gonna send addicted yeah and

and it doesn't change how but you know

I'm hoping that this just resonates with

people and and that like you know that

it's it's it's fair it's deep I get

there's a lot of nuance in it I think

for sure yeah yeah it's a nuance that is

hard to really I don't know put them on

paper I think yeah and I want to be

empathetic to like like I said I I

understand where you're coming from I

get that I get that that narrative you

know the thing I think that drives it

home for me is like I look at it when

someone goes oh yeah the whites did this

and then I go yeah well my mom's side is

white but they're actually German

immigrants that came like way later you

know what I mean

you know my grandparents were immigrants

so they had nothing to do with it but

they're still grouped in that category

you get what I'm saying yeah that's

Michael you know yeah but we're still

pointing the finger at yeah yeah yeah

you know and you know yeah and what

about me I'm like I'm I'm half Japanese

half German um I mean I guess maybe the

fingers half pointed at me or something

I don't know sure sure I'd rather not

point the finger I'd rather just say

let's let's let's solve the issues and

you know not not let the man keep

fucking two minute you right cuz he's

doing it to all of us yeah it's it's

happening to everyone you know it's a

different percentage for sure for

different groups right but we're all

like we're all feeling it in some way

yeah yeah yeah and and and you know

these conversations do need to happen

especially in in in hip-hop like that

was like I said burst out of that exact

struggle and that like and so there's I

don't know there's a lot of Education on

this I don't know about accessibility to

this information you know a lot of times

like I said it's a I'll go online and

I'll go on my social medium like cool

those are amazing moves mm-hmm those are

you know and they're just not said you

know and I'm making it a point to I'm

making a point to say it I'm gonna point

that every opportunity that I get a

chance don't be like hey guess what

let's really dig I don't wanna scratch

the surface I wanted like yo let's

really an important conversation for

sure you know and I but I I think what I

notice on social media a lot is that

it's a very short conversation it's like

oh you don't agree with me then block or

whatever or like a few blah and it's

like dude yeah not it's like so deep

though like yeah you really got to sit

down and really think about it discuss

it yes it's it's not something that you

can said saying like a frickin whatever

hundred character sure yeah yeah yeah no

for sure and and our events need to

start creating spaces for this to happen

yeah for sure you know I don't know when

the last panel was at a jam I don't know

you know like I couldn't I couldn't tell

you I just know that the community from

you know kind of like from folks that

I've been speaking they've been asking

for this yeah you know there's there's a

and so we just have to provide that you

know I don't and it's it's it's in in in

in a lot of ways it's to move forward

that's it yeah you know it's how we move

forward it's like there's something

brewing not even just in the you know I

think just the politics and in just the

climate right now that we're in it's

just kind of like a front and center

mm-hm

but it's been it's been there it was a

little hidden but now it's like oh it's

everywhere you know you got oh but I in

a lot of ways in order to combat that

these discussions need to be had you

know more rather than kind of hearing

just one side of the story how about the

other you know and and having empathy

like yo I I relate to both sides I

understand that classism is real you

know I I know our you know our white

brothers equally struggle you know well

finance

Julian in a lot of ways and they're like

you know what the f I'm struggling to

shoot I don't yeah you know but there's

just certain frameworks that like yo the

those you know you just can't like you

just can't negate the fact that like you

know that's real like that systemic

racism right there and you can't like

and so I'm I want to help combat that

because there's a lot of trauma there's

a lot of light you know and so when I

think of my experiences you know with

you know policing knowing that like you

know in the 90s there was like the

three-strike rule where like if you're

selling weed now you're doing life yeah

you know and who like who were the ones

that that suffered from that it was

black and brown community yeah you know

and then prop 21 in in 98 or 99 whenever

that passed like okay well now we're

gonna try you as an adult you know like

yo those were some real like and it's

not like our schools have counselors

like you know we had like SROs you know

like police officers and in in like bars

on our windows like yo that high school

to you know to jail complexity like

that's super real you know and so I'm

just amazed that I walked out of that

unscathed yeah like you know I have no

record no and I made it out of that yo

that's like that's a huge win but a lot

of my brothers and sisters and community

members did in yes for sure you know and

it's it's like how do i how do I break

that cycle and so you know I need to

understand the system because it is in a

lot of ways a system you know that like

I go to school but they don't

necessarily you know I got I got it I

was told like oh you're you know your

works insufficient oh your you know your

English is kind of lacking you need to

study more in otherwise I was already

being told I was a minority mmm you know

like and you compound that from

kindergarten up to high school no

there's no reason why

or there's a lot of reasons why kids

will be like why do I gotta go to school

you know like why why do I gotta learn

this you know and it's like well it's

tied to power and if you want to if you

want to attain that power you have to

learn this you know like so it's a lot

it's a lot yeah yeah education is

another weird subject for me too because

like I did I think you know I think

everyone should really work on getting a

good education and unfortunately it's

not the easiest thing nowadays it's

expensive it's well yeah yeah yeah for

sure I was gonna say I mean be because

in like public schools school districts

are not equal you know yeah so a lot of

times you have these affluent

neighborhoods that have very good school

systems and other ghetto neighborhoods

that have terrible ones and it's like

these education czar not equal yeah and

then going up into higher education into

college now you have you know a

financial issue where a lot of these

ghetto or communities can't afford that

yeah unfortunately it's so expensive you

go into like stupid amounts of debt to

do it and I'm lucky that I got out of

that you know before it really started

getting crazy but I didn't get out

unscathed I guess like I still had some

some student loans and stuff but

nowadays dude it's like mmm I feel like

if I was in school now I'd be like dude

I don't know how I'm gonna do this yeah

it'd be great it'd be scary for me I

yeah yeah so so important to do it

that's and so I'd be really at like a

crossroads in a way like should I do

this

it might financially break me but if I

don't do it it's gonna like also

financially break me in a way yeah yeah

yeah so yeah you're right school has

been a huge for me of a huge struggle

you know it is it is in a lot of ways

one of the hardest things I've ever done

you know

mainly because of again just the

structures that are in place you know

and people say like just pull yourself

up from the bootstraps like oh I don't

even got boots I don't have hair like I

go to a high school that has like one AP

class yet if I'm trying to transfer to

you see you need at the very least you

know like multiple ways yeah and I'm

like okay so that society telling me fu

you know your ass is gonna to go Jesse

you didn't have the opportunity to even

like you do that right then and then

like I I like I had a teacher stand in

front of me and and kind of like tell us

but I was never introduced to lecture

halls you know like that was you know

that that's classism right there like

how it's like elitist like yo now you're

you giving me these these these

classrooms and these courses that I'm

like first time my first year of college

was so freakin wild to me because like

like when I got there I was like what

this is a fucking different world like

I'm so underprepared for this because

like right high school was relatively

easy for me like I kind of just breezed

through it like I got good grades just

because I did my homework and that it

was like okay as long as you do your

homework I'm you're good but I freaking

messed around the whole fucking time and

then you get to college and it's like

you can't do that but that's I guess

what I've been doing the whole time and

so then I see this and it's like I

really needed to have a counselor there

that say hey you gotta do this you got a

dude like I didn't even know um where to

go to like sign up for classes and shit

I think I remember it was like one of

the first weeks or something I was like

yo fuck dude what do I do and then right

like I had a dorm mate who just was like

what the fuck was like dude I don't know

no one told me this yeah and so yeah

yeah it was a struggle and so like the

whole time I'm just like trying to

figure it out and right I mean

eventually I did probably it took me

solid like three years to really like

figure it all out but yeah it was a

weird weird right change

yeah and I think he just probably had

like support there was probably like

exposure you know but for for a lot of

folks of color it's like who's your brow

right after that first semester we're

like you know oh yeah this ish yeah

weird you know what it was for me is

like but fuck all these people I'm gonna

make them pay I'm gonna make them I'm

gonna make them look at me and go like

oh yeah he's a fucking dumbass but he

fucking figured it out that there was

like a little bit of a I don't know what

it is malice a little bit yeah yeah kind

of like thing inside me that made me

want to prove it right prove someone

wrong I guess and so yeah which is super

real you know like it's it's probably

it's it's a one of the main drivers of

actually it's not the main driver it's

one of the drivers of why I'm back in

school again you know to be like all

right you know what I'll be right back

yeah you know let me go grab something

right quick and when I come back I'm

just gonna come back super well equipped

you know I know you know what listen up

yeah so yeah education is yeah you know

I've grown I love learning don't get me

wrong I love learning I've had some

amazing educators

I just education is just one of those

things where it's like there's so many

different systems from like you know

enrolling to your FAFSA to your

counselor to you know campus culture to

the teacher you know so there's so many

different layers and and if one of those

you know if if several those layers

ain't right we'll even if one of those

layers ain't right

it's like you know it'll push a lot of

us away

it'll be like man this application is

way too long or you know just the fact

that like you know I've been ii-i've

been hit with like syllabuses and I'm

like oh hell naw yeah this is wait yo

I'm done like where's the you know

withdraw button at like yeah you know

after the first day and so all of that

you know we we've got to recognize that

it it plays a role so yeah yeah was I

gonna say

I was gonna Oh educational also like I

also think that sometimes education is

not quite structured I think for the

regular person either because a lot of

the shit you learn in school it's it's

tailored for I guess certain career

paths but and I think maybe that's what

turns a lot of people off to it because

like I guess one one thing to say about

is like you don't learn how to do your

taxes or anything in school but it's

like literally everybody has to do this

yeah so yeah yeah I feel like at least

one semester or something in high school

yeah probably

[Laughter]

here's how you do your laundry for like

yeah it's like I don't know I feel like

maybe that will resonate with people

more and also you know there's there's a

lot of like technical skills in terms of

like plumbing and right that kind of

thing and that's something that a lot of

people like I went to school with a lot

of people that were going into those

fields like they knew they were going

that way I was almost gonna go in the

field of being come becoming a general

contractor like my dad and I felt like

high school really didn't tailor to that

and so I I see that a lot of people that

probably want to go down that path look

at it and go like oh this is fucking use

useless to me

yeah but if you know there was a class

about like you know management or what

it you know sure like a business kind of

management kind of class they would find

a lot of use for that in wherever they

go probably you know and they're

definitely like tax like a tax class or

something yeah yeah yeah I mean it's

definitely an archaic system yeah yeah

it is yeah and you know and another

thing is they don't teach creativity and

oh that that bothers me a lot about that

for sure

yeah it's it it hurts creativity in a

way Oh 100% I mean as an educator I

guess students all the time that are

like I'm not creative and so I start

thinking about my experiences like you

know hey Sergio pay attention you know

what I'd be doodling but understand that

doodling is what kind of keeps me paying

attention yeah yeah you know it may look

like I'm just but look I'm I'm literally

paying attention it's what I need it's

what I need I'm you know I'm there's a

lot of different layers to me like I

need extra stimulus and you just stand

in there barking or you know yelling or

talking about things that I need I need

to I need something else to help me

understand or just listen you know and

so you the arts has been you know won a

lot of art fundings been been cut it's

you know and so the fact that teachers

will be like hey pay attention you know

and so yeah by the time we get to

college and we're like knowing that like

hey the arts is is another means to kind

of heal this mm-hmm

you know like we all need it like okay

try driving around no music on yeah you

know try oh that would be a sucky Drive

you know special traffic like yo you

need that you yeah our souls need to

kind of feel you know we need that and

so let's not forget the importance of

the arts and so in fact I sit on the

Alameda County Arts Commission oh really

yeah yeah I'm both on their Executive

Board and so I'm very well involved yeah

in this art community and so that's come

you know and and yeah just just being

advocates for it it's it's it's

something that I feel like it in you

know how like you take English every

year in high school or whatever I feel

like there needs to be yeah creativity

class right every year that you just

take right you know and maybe that's in

the form of okay we're gonna do a

painting class now then we're gonna do

this then we're gonna do creative

writing we're gonna do something but

something that's you know dancing or

whatever like something that's engaging

your brain in a creative way I think is

so important to learning mmm and I think

I'm just lucky because my mom is an

artist so it was like unique I didn't

get that at school but I'd go home and

she's ya know it's there be like do this

you know right but it's so weird it's so

loud to me when someone says

like I don't know how to be creative and

I just don't know why don't you just

like I don't know just yeah imagine yeah

and then just fuckin do it

I don't know cuz whenever I mean I don't

know so it's kind of second nature to me

in a weight cuz my mom would you know

she would say okay here yeah and hip-hop

to I mean the fact that you know we

break like yo you're forced to create

you know like Zula grams he he he you

know he was like yo what's the number

one rule in hip-hop mm-hmm you don't

bite you know so like you're forced to

just continuously be creative yeah yeah

you know and so and it's encouraged it's

exactly it's encouraged to do something

different than right everyone else and

so you know that like really kicks in

like I can sometimes I'll see art and

I'll be like math week you know like

it's because I'm so we're so or our

artist is so refined because we we we we

unpack we you know we dismantle and then

we rebuild yeah you know like our own

styles and like and that's and that's

like literally any artists you know you

you're okay you're only as good as your

last piece you're only as good as your

last round you know your last set of you

know windmills like you know and so

understanding that like oh we just need

it and it's a yeah it's it's unfortunate

when I get students like that yeah you

know I mean I feel for them like all

right cool let's get let's kickstart

that back up

yeah it's cuz like I almost look at it

like if you look at a kid a little kid

like a toddler oh yeah I feel like

they're the most creative yeah because

it's like they're not thinking about

anything and they just do whatever they

want yeah Emily somewhere along that

kid's life something stopped them

something said stop doing this shit yeah

you know stop you know right using your

imagination yeah create creating out of

that imagination yeah yeah yeah and do I

don't know fucking math problem or

something right right Reid freaking Tom

Sawyer or whatever and they go like

alright

no I don't know how to be creative

anymore I don't know it feels like it

should be the easiest thing in the world

but oh so many people it's not yeah as

an adult yeah it does become harder yeah

yeah I don't know why exactly and it

might just be like societal pressures

maybe but now it's just yeah and I think

maybe our school system isn't quite set

up for that too - really

creativity doesn't really thrive in in

in this public school system in America

yeah yeah in terms of institutions like

there's been a recording of you know

schools you know having accessible art

programs right like that is and so and

and I think there's like a handful of

states that I began to record how much

art get six you know exposed to to our

students yeah and like California was

ranked last you know and and yet like

when you think of California you think

of the Arts yeah you know like you think

of like Hollywood and yet it's you you

think of it as like artistic right it's

interesting yeah and so it's last yeah

yeah and like I said there's only a

handful of states so in theory it could

be someone you know like in the middle

but in terms of like these 15 states

that are measuring this California

ranked class as like it's education you

know like you kidding me that California

is ranked like 48 or something oh yeah

yeah you know so it's it's it's a it's a

light bulb but that is where you know we

have to advocate like I will 100%

advocate for my daughter's education I

definitely want to your point I I don't

want a teacher to be here and be like

hey stop being creative yeah you know

like that if anything that's in terms of

like where we are and just humanity we

need to be the most creative right now

you know for the solutions or for the

problems that are like at our doorstep

yeah you know like our we are on like a

and I think in the net these next 10

years is like a very big transition

oh yeah technologically and so we got to

be really creative with how we like

approach in I think and so yeah

creativity really is gonna be the

solution to everyone should get involved

with it Bob yeah yeah it's gonna save

the planet it's gonna save us against

the art you know the robots that are

China it's gonna save us against Skynet

yeah but yeah you know I hate if you're

on the cusp of like thinking about you

know learning these these these street

dances and I'm gonna hear I'm here to be

like now you should mm-hmm you know you

want to get more creative in life and

just feel more enriched like you're you

nice are doing these dances yeah you

know or not even just a dancer though

the social movements you know whatever

my it is get involved you know get your

kids in in hip-hop or even just as a fan

I mean like just you're involved with

you know just come in come to some

events and just like put your energy

into it yeah it's a it's a community

it's a welcoming community that you know

we want to share what we have with

everybody so I don't think we want to

deter people but we also want to be

genuine with how we portray it mmm so

good point yeah yeah well dude we're

hitting should probably close this show

out you got any closing points um you

know I just want to give a shout out

want you thank you for you know creating

the space yeah thank you for coming yeah

having me thank you to like my wife my

daughter who doesn't even know it but

you know she's a main driver and in a

lot of the work that I do shout-out to

you know the Bay Area and all that yeah

all the dancers that are you know kind

of putting up the good fight and know

that there's there's a lot of work to be

done and

I repeat I appreciate you you know all

of you and I recognize y'all and and you

you know they inspire me and you know

I'm very hopeful that we'll start seeing

you know the change that our communities

need and it's I I just know it's gonna

be with a lot of fight but it's one that

you know in and throughout humanity we

weave humanity has prevailed in its

darkest times and you know I'm hopeful

of that and this is just a little blip

in the road and and it's it's it's gonna

come with a lot of fights and but we'll

get through it you know and so so yeah

shout out to everyone who is putting up

that good fight you know all my

different crews you know beats in pieces

fresh dynamics the folks over at all the

way live yeah we can even get to talk

about all the way that's that's that

that'll be episode 2 episode 2 episode 2

you know there's different a lot a lot

to say there too

but yeah you know anyone want to reach

me you know hit me up on my social media

handles Instagram at the power surge the

power surge Serg e and yeah yeah thank

you oh man well thank you for coming on

I really appreciate it

I think this has been great a great

discussion so thank you for coming thank

you guys for listening my camera just

died oh well yeah I survived all right

I'm out

sorry this show sucks

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