By Mary Lindow
I’m going to make a few statements about this podcast before I begin.
I hope I am not required by Lord to make many podcasts like this one, but I will obey him if he does ask me to do so! To even things out a little bit, my next few podcasts are going to be sharing about some magnificent and overwhelming experiences that I have had in meeting First Native Chiefs throughout the United States and Canada.
All of these events were
By Mary Lindow
I’m going to make a few statements about this podcast before I begin.
I hope I am not required by Lord to make many podcasts like this one, but I will obey him if he does ask me to do so! To even things out a little bit, my next few podcasts are going to be sharing about some magnificent and overwhelming experiences that I have had in meeting First Native Chiefs throughout the United States and Canada.
All of these events were orchestrated by the Lord in order for us to meet. The things that I learned from these godly individuals who love Jesus, but understand the strongholds in our cities, our nations and upon our lands, has been absolutely Life-changing. I hope to share at least two podcasts telling you these stories and experiences that glorify Jesus, and show the power of his supernatural ability to get us to the places we need to go without ever having to push our way in or manipulate anything.
Now let’s begin today’s crucial podcast.
We are in a time when many people are seeing much evil take place, not only in our nation, not only in large and small corporations, but in church organizations and organizations that claim to bear the name of Christ on their letterheads.
One of the greatest deceptions taking place is that people are being told to NOT “discuss”/not to tell the truth about the abuses that are taking place in some of these organizations.
With the multitude of public exposures that is taking place right now all over social media regarding unconscionable and difficult happenings, I have been agonizingly yet strongly prompted by the Holy Spirit, to share my thoughts and the experiences that I have had in walking other people out of dark places, because of the harm done to them in some of these institutions.
I do this with a heavy heart, and yet I must take courage and be obedient in order to be an “Advocate of Hope” for those who feel that they cannot speak out for fear of being threatened or ridiculed, letting them know that there are others who will champion and stand with them by calling “wolfish abuse” what it is, instead of sweeping it under any kind of Church Carpet, Corporate Carpet, or Institutional Carpet.
I am by far, not the perfect believer by any means!
I’ve had some wonderful mentors and training from others in ministry as well as in the counseling arena who have been strong and good people of discernment.
When something inside of you is alerted or feels really uncomfortable, or even just the thought of, “there’s something not right about that” pops in, that’s a built-in radar God gives us.
Now, if someone’s judging someone because they don’t like that they’re loud, or seem to be "too meek, obese, skinny, or speak a truth that they aren’t comfortable with or don’t have wisdom about", then that’s where all the speculating and suspicion move in.
Being set free from critical behavior and suspicion takes a willingness to admit that we don’t trust anybody, or, that we think we have an exclusive lead on how God speaks all the time.
I certainly need the accountability friends in my life
who speak truth to me firmly and regularly!
The soul loves to put itself in its own place of authority and override discernment, humility,and often the need to prove that our opinion matters. Honestly, keeping a heart pure and clean before the Lord every day, (and that’s truly not just an easy thing), but pursuing him with the right heart, keeps that place where we hear from him very sharpened and aware!
Studying his word, digging into what it really means, provides a depth and place of resource to go to, to check whether our heart is in accordance with his word or if we’re making up our own ideas about things.
It’s so easy to let other people think or speak for us, or their opinions, being strong, driving a message to us that says we should probably do what they say. This is where we get into trouble!
We are supposed to question or “test” things
and not just take everything hook, line, and sinker!
In 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 it tells us,
“Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies,
BUT, test everything; hold fast to what is good.
Abstain from every form of evil.”
Friends! Evil can be deceptive and cunning!
The word of God has an omnipotent power that cuts through all of the fog of self-deception and definitely pontificating! Many people quote the scripture and use it to their benefit when they want to self promote or appear to be somewhat spiritual. This is where discernment has to come in!!!
If something feels wrong, if something is spiritually off key, is not in alignment with what Jesus said or what the scriptures speak, then discernment has to come in to play.
The road gets narrower as you walk your Christian journey with Jesus, and you absolutely will be called many names because of the stance of wanting to be more like him, and more detached from the volumes of worldly knowledge.
Wisdom isn’t easily gained! But, it’s so worth it when you get a little nugget that lasts for eternity.
Suspicion vs. Discernment.
I’ve seen this destroy and have been painfully more than a few times, a recipient of ugly and ruthless “suspicious” judgments.
Suspicion destroys relationships.
It destroys lives.
It listens to hearsay rather than God’s inward warnings.
Suspicion can feed a self satisfaction (which is actually pride) when our choices to put others in a lesser and suspicious light, even sabotaging them, justifies our own agendas.
When we are constantly suspicious of the motives of others, we drive people away that could be a great blessings to us. (They may even walk with a bit of a limp due to the battles and hard fought victories they’ve fought throughout their lives.)
Check your life today.
Are you discerning, or merely suspicious?
The problem is, sometimes we label suspicion with the pious name of “discernment” and think we're being super spiritual.
It’s so important to learn the difference between discernment and suspicion!
The difference is quite simple.
Discernment comes from God and will recognize evil for what it is.
Suspicion come from or soul and will imagine evil when there is none.
If you see genuine compassion, kindness, mercy, accountability, humility and a forgiving nature in someone, you are seeing a surrendered soul.
Not many want to talk about how hard spiritual growth and dying to ourselves, our opinions our interpretations is.
It's not a one time thing, it's every day.
It's remaining quiet when we want to speak.
It's trusting God's timing when we would, rather control.
It's doing it God's way when it doesn't make sense to us.
It’s quietly walking away from what might “appear to be a lucrative or more publicly promoting opportunity” when you know there are political or spiritually abusive environments involved.
We don’t get a lot of accolades or crowns here on earth for that kind of brave but necessary decision. But in heaven, when we do behold the face of the one who literally bled out for us, and he says, “Well done, so well done my good and faithful servant! Enter into my rest!” Oh my goodness, how absolutely all of the hardship and persecution will melt away in that moment, and the joy that is unspeakable and has yet to be fully understood, will be complete in our lives.
It is necessary in life to learn from those
who have more wisdom and experience,
because they can help us see things that we don't notice.
Even though modern culture tells us that we should “live our own truth and do whatever we think is best”, it’s this type of thinking that leads us into trouble. This is why Scripture tells us not to be wise in our own eyes.
True wisdom comes from fearing God. This means we should have a high regard for God's Word and His instructions to us. He knows all things, including, what is best for us.
We can also gain wisdom from other people. When we can learn from the mistakes and experiences of others, we're better equipped to not make the same mistakes. However, if you think you're the only one who knows best, you are bound to repeat the same errors.
There’s a huge amount of exposure taking place in pulpits, Ministry organizations, Christian Media Corporations, Governments, Christian Universities and Bible Schools...
...Right now.
Of course, we all know the Lord is doing a lot of the exposing and dealing with painful and shocking events that have or, are currently occurring, or are being investigated.
Why is he doing this? Because he will not allow these kinds of charades, criminal acts or hiding of sexual misconductsto NOT be caught.
Sadly many individuals who are sitting in church pulpits or are serving in ministry environments such as youth ministries, children’s church, Young adult groups and more, are often made uncomfortable by things they see taking place with some of the staff members.
The big question now is do you dare say anything?
If you see a male individual in a place of authority as a teacher, a pastor, any kind of youth worker anywhere, being over familiar with females, and by that I mean, resting their hand on their back too often with letting it linger, standing too closely to them in their personal space, spending time alone with them in their office etc. with doors shut and no visible way to see anything taking place. These are red flags!
A little bit of investigating and watching and taking notes is appropriate. Always document things that you see that make you feel there is something wrong going on and always date it. But be honest, not suspicious and don’t exaggerate or embellish. If necessary, take pictures. These are now used as evidence in court cases.
Another example!
If you would happen to know that there was a youth minister who sexually approached or interfered with a child or a young adult, and it was hidden and “dealt with” in an internal investigation among elders or leaders of a church or youth organization, club or scouting group, but was never reported, and this individual was then packed up and sent off to another state to minister or workelsewhere, they have basically turned this person into a repeat offender. These things must be reported to the police!
Here’s the hard thing.
We sure hope that we could go to people like elders or other leaders in the church if we see something taking place and know that deception is involvedand that others are covering it up.
If there has ever been a question that you have seen or a child has reported to you, that a young adult has reported to you or a teenager has reported to you that something inappropriate, whether it was conversation, whether it was physical touch, whether it was a threat that took place, you must go to the police.
Taking it to the pastor or taking it to the leadership "feels" like a good idea. But when there’s a wolf in the crowd, when there are wolves in leadership positions, we don’t take time to try to defend ourselves against wolves or predators.
If you know, for a fact that these things have taken place, you must document and you must protect the children. You must protect the young developing adults. And, you must protect the future generations that would be affected if this perpetrator is permitted to be allowed to continue to remain in any organization, and not have appropriate legal consequences take place.
There are many who are holding positions in churches that are hiding inappropriate events of their own, within their own staff, or within their own organization, who value their building, their notoriety and their income, more than they value protecting the sheep or telling the truth.
Some people do not believe this is true! They think that surely the Holy Spirit would be exposing these things if they were really happening!
Well, my friends, the Holy Spirit uses practical human beings who are aware and have cultivated discernment and see that there is something very wrong and very out of order going on, and these human beings must be bold, courageous, and speak out like the prophet Nathan spoke to King David when he was having a long-term affair with Bathsheba and murdered his own military leader in order to cover his own manipulative and adulterous behavior.
There were terrible, painful consequences that took place because of what David did. Yet God in his mercy when David repented, restored David’s relationship back to himself.
But if forever changed David, and there were things that he was no longer permitted to partake in because of his wickedness.
But God did not shun him.
God corrected him.
Here are a few basic recommendations I’d like to share as a Pastoral counselor (and as a minister myself), with those who are in some form of ministry.
It’s not wise for men to counsel Women alone, but if necessary they must have a glass window where another safe office or staff member can see into the room. I have seen too many people get enmeshed emotionally with intimate counseling and I have historical documents that sadly indicate where several ministers who fantasized or planned or, actually have run off with people they were counseling for marriage difficulties! They have devastated marriages, families and churches because they crossed a line and blew clear past healthy boundaries, and safety protocols for counseling.
I also strongly recommend that men are not often alone in an office setting or ministry facility with women, especially if single, because they’re vulnerable women, because the table can turn two ways. The woman can become needy or manipulative and play on the affections or the emotions of a tender, kind hearted man, and then turn around and accuse them of some kind of inappropriate actions.
Men in buildings alone with women who are married and it’s late at night with a woman who is beautiful and lovely, or even sweet and precious, can create a sense of desire in a man whois tired of the grind of life, maybe hard work, might be having some strain at home, and in a few moments of weakness, begins to pursue an emotional affair, talking too openly, sharing too openly, and it can quickly lead to other kinds of affection, emotional bonding and inappropriate touching.
I know some of this sounds pretty heavy, and we as believers just don’t want to have to hear about the horrible, dark things that could possibly take place! We so want to believe the best in everyone and we want to be merciful and forgiving!
But, with the recent rash and exposure of well-known names, seemingly appearing holy and virtuous, many well protected individuals are now being exposed in multiple areas and in multiple environments, for hiding harm done to children, harm done to staff, and then using spiritual gifts or “spiritual pedigrees” to justify that they were just “tired or weak in the moment” and that they thought they’d handle it in house privately!
Well, to speak bluntly and boldly,
this fakery and denial is just all hogwash
when the gaslighting and lying starts!
We have to call it what it is!
It’s called spiritual abuse (SA) or clergy sexual abuse. (CSA) .
Returning to my original introduction regarding the need for discernment versus suspicion, we have to be very wise and make sure that our hearts are right as we begin to walk out these very difficult times of exposure as well as needing to be vocal.
There are victims among us who have not said anything for years about the things that took place in back rooms or offices or church buildings, camps or cars. For some reason, people run to suspicion and say, “Why are you now just beginning to talk about this? Why did you wait so long? What do you want out of this?”
In legal terms when someone speaks out immediately about sexual abuse or harm done,the term is called “Outcry”.
They “cry out”, they “tell”.
When someone takes awhile to be able to process abuse, especially children (male, and female!) or young vulnerable teenagers or women who have been abused in the past, and have been threatened to remain silent or paid off to be quiet, and are easily preyed upon by those who are able to spot vulnerability, it takes them longer, and healthy unpacking and dialog frees them to tell. This must be tenderly and wisely handled with a skilled CHRISTIAN trauma counselor who works in these areas of sexual, church or cult abuse, or child abuse.
The term for this, when someone takes so long or doesn’t remember everything that happened (because they’ve been threatened and they have shut it out), this is called “Delayed Outcry.”
With the proper counseling and the proper police reporting involved, then there becomes an investigation or a forensic investigation that listens to and reviews documents, the stories or events, does the investigating, looks at any kind of proof which could be documents, notes, texts, emails, pictures, clothing, the location or rooms these things happened in. Then, they begin to question and cross examine those who are being accused.
Yes! There have been people who have lied and set others up for something they never did. Or, they lured people into getting them to be involved in nefarious behaviors, use of drugs, alcohol, inappropriate touching, looking at unsafe objects, videos or pictures, and then turn around and use it to project onto that individual in order to hide their own very Addictive sicknesses.
Here’s the Honest Deal.
When there are wolves operating the pulpits, we don’t say, “well they were once a really nice sheep so we have to be nice to them!” A wolf is a wolf! A wolf puts on a mask like a sheep and can appear saintly and beautiful and tell sad, well oiled stories about themselves to make themselves look like they’re repentant over something “small” that they may struggle over and then everyone feels like, “what a lovely, humble soul!”
They can con, they can cry, they can preach, they can look compassionate. They can talk a good line, they can be very convincing.
But, if they have been predators, touching children, often touching women, touching men, plagiarizing, mishandling funds for their own purposes and lavish living...
…These are wolves.
We have to call them for what they are. They thrive on building their egos and are very convincing in order build their own empires, claiming that it was the Lord giving them all the blessings.
2 Corinthians 11:13-14 addresses this so strongly!
“For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light!”
Friends, Discernment is at an all-time low
and the Lord is bringing it to the forefront.
The Spirit of God is saying to you and saying to me, “cultivate develop and train yourself to be discerning and to test everything!”
This means school boards, politicians, those in the pulpit, those in other ministries and any other position of authority.
Some of the slickest and most well promoted people are often those of who have charming, manipulative narcissistic traits and harm many in their wake.
The posture of power, inflated titles, fake tears, swiftly changing of trends and movements that claim it’s “THE thing” God is doing, are lures to draw crowds, train people to trust the speakers to hear from God for them ( but not fully train the audience to discern and judge.)
Oh the wretched and unbelievably twisted things I have heard behind the doors of Pastoral counseling!
Oh the ugly and extremely uncomfortable things I’ve witnessed in Green rooms before live “Christian” broadcasts.
Oh the unbelievably huge complex and disgusting competition that goes on among ministries and Christian organizations, when monetary policies are used as a way to enrich those at the top.
If There’s Anything I’d Scream From the Rooftops Today
It Would Be,
“Cultivate and Learn Discernment!”
Be sober! Be wise!
Be accountable!”
Oh Lord Jesus! Mature your people. Teach them to hear your voice.
I would like to share a statement from a wonderful man of God who is a seasoned Husband, Father, Pastor, Speaker, and Author.
His name is Tim Challies.
He shares these very potent and deep words.
“With discernment comes division.
A person who seeks to be discerning must be willing to suffer the effects of this division.
It will divide not only the believer from the unbeliever, but it may even divide a discerning believer from one who is undiscerning.
It will separate the mature from the immature and the naïve from the prudent.”
SO well said!
In my closing out of this podcast today, I would like to share a few potent words from Dr. Diane Langberg who has worked in multicultural and many international settings were abuse and tragedy of every kind, (those imagined and those that you cannot imagine that have taken place).
She works as a specialist among those who have been traumatized by Church abuse in its many forms. She is a wise Senior woman who I greatly admire and have learned much from.
As I share her statements in closing, allow them to speak to the deeper part of you where the Lord is developing discernment and greater awareness.
Diane says,
“Many of us have confused the church system with Jesus Christ; they are not the same.
There are wolves among the sheep, tares among the wheat.
Jesus called humans that looked good on the outside, white-washed tombs full of stink. My work has taught me that many poor sheep have followed a blind guide, a gifted wolf, and landed in a pit.
No so-called Christian system is truly God’s work unless it “fleshes out” his character. Toleration of sin, pretense, and crookedness do not reveal the character of God, even if they bear his name.
Arrogance is never godly.
Covering up sin is never godly.
Abuse of power is never godly.
Shepherds who feed on sheep are abusive.
Leadership that preserves and protects the system, rather than the people, turns the house of God into a safe place for predators.
Those who come to feed on God himself then find themselves being the main course instead.
We have failed to protect leaders from their own bondage to self-deception and sin. Exposure brings hope, for it brings the cancer to the light.
To hide sin by cover-up or silent complicity is spiritual abuse.
It is a failure to love the perpetrator. Demise of a system—even a spiritual system—is not the worst that can happen!
We must acknowledge and tell the truth about these things.
Great damage is being done to God’s sheep, in his name.
He weeps over such leaders and the sheep they harm.
Be watchful.
Recognize coercive and manipulative behavior.
Call it by its right name when someone in power uses spiritual words and ideas to silence, control, and intimidate.
Be discerning about those who hold power—including yourself.
Do not be deceived.
May we, with Daniel, call out to God: “O Lord, hear! O Lord forgive. O Lord listen and act. For your own sake do not delay, because your church and your people are called by your name.”(Dan. 9:19).
Source: https://erlc.com/resource/when-the-sheep-are-preyed-upon/
Finally, I would like to say these words.
Trauma can leave people feeling shattered and alone.
But through our faith, we discover that God’s love is unwavering and His healing touch can mend even the deepest wounds.
Let’s remember that we are not defined by our pain,
But by the Grace that lifts us up,
and leads us toward restoration.
If you find yourself carrying the weight of trauma, know that you are not alone on this journey.
For those of you who may be trembling with fear or who have experienced any kind of abuse.
For those of you, how are trembling and fear, because you know you have done something and have hidden it from others or have protected others who you know have done harmful, evil things, the word of God says to confess your faults to one another to confess your sins so that you may be clean, freed, and that you may be forgiven.
To those of you who have been abused, don’t be afraid to find a safe, godly, skilled trauma counselor who will be able to help you be freed from the prisons of shame, control, and intimidation within, so that you can walk in the light of grace and freedom and know that your Father in heaven has rescued you from those that harm.
To help you in your journey, I have included a link where you can quickly locate or begin to research a Christian counselor who is skilled and able to help you with whatever specific area that you may need to have help with.
https://tinyurl.com/5h4zfc9u
Let's pray together before we end this time together.
Heavenly Father,
May everyone who knows your mercy keep putting their trust in you, for they can count on you for help no matter what.
O Lord, you will never, no, never, neglect those who come to you."
-Psalms 9:10
Heavenly Father, in the face of fear and uncertainty, I call upon your strength to fill those who are listening to, or who are reading this message, fill them with courage.
When the wounds of traumatic experiences seem too deep to overcome, remind them that you are the ever-present help in times of trouble.
Grant them the bravery to face their fears head-on, knowing that you go in front of them, leading them into a future, free from the shackles of the past.
Thank you for being our fortress and our deliverer. With you by their side, They will not be afraid. Amen.
Duplication and sharing of this writing is welcomed,
as long as the complete message, Website, podcast link
and information for Mary Lindow is included.
Thank You!
"2025"
"THE MESSENGER" - Mary Lindow
www.marylindow.com
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