Science of Reading: The Podcast

Summer Special '26: How research builds on research, with Sonia Cabell, Ph.D.

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, host Susan Lambert, Ed.D., does something a little different, sharing her own research alongside that of her guest, Sonia Cabell, Ph.D. Together, they trace how Sonia's large-scale Institute of Education Sciences (IES) study directly inspired Susan's dissertation, and what that process reveals about how evidence in literacy education actually gets built. Susan and Sonia also discuss what Sonia's IES study on content-rich literacy instruction found; how Susan's own dissertation research built directly on those findings; what it really means for research to "accumulate" and why it matters for classroom practice.Show notes:Sign up for our fall Literacy Data and MTSS Week.Listen to Sonia's previous Science of Reading: The Podcast appearances:Deconstructing the Rope: Language comprehensionResearch, comprehension, and content-rich literacy instructionRead Sonia's book, Strive-for-Five Conversations: A Framework That Gets Kids Talking to Accelerate Their Language Comprehension and Literacy.Learn more about the Florida Center for Reading Research.Check out Sonia's IES study.Listen to Reid Lyon, Ph.D., on Science of Reading: The PodcastEmbracing the complexity of learning to read, Part 1 and Part 2Systematizing literacyListen to Season 3 of Amplify's Beyond My Years podcast.Subscribe to Susan's new Science of Reading Substack.Join our Science of Reading community Facebook group.Connect with Susan Lambert. Quotes:"The Science of Reading is not like a product. It's not a thing. It's an ever-accumulating body of work." —Sonia Cabell"You're doing better than you think. Keep being a learner." —Sonia Cabell"It's the accumulation of research over time that leads us to an evidence base, not just any one study." —Sonia CabellTimestamps*:0:00 Introduction: How research builds on research3:00 Sonia's research focus: oral language as the foundation of reading7:00 The origin of the IES study10:00 Sonia's study design and what cut it short16:00 Results of the IES study 23:00 What is an IES study?25:00 Causation versus correlation28:00 Susan's dissertation: building on Sonia's research31:00 What Susan found35:00 "It's not about just one landmark study"41:00 Trusted organizations for educators44:00 Reasons for optimism48:00 Closing thoughts*Timestamps are approximate

Adolescent Literacy, Episode 4: A proactive response to the adolescent literacy crisis, with Kymyona Burk, Ed.D.

In this final episode of our four-part adolescent literacy miniseries, Susan Lamber, Ed.D., is joined by Kymyona Burk, Ed.D., a senior policy fellow for literacy at ExcelinEd and former Mississippi state literacy director and secondary English teacher. Together, Susan and Kymyona connect what we know from early literacy to the urgent needs of middle school reading, including the policies, professional development, and practices it will take to reach the adolescent readers who need us most. They also explore what comprehensive adolescent literacy policy must include, what other states' legislative momentum for secondary literacy can teach us, and why literacy belongs in every content-area classroom.Show notes:Check out our Science of Reading resources for grades 6–8.Read the Educator Preparation Program Literacy Policy Playbook.Learn more about the Advancing Adolescent Literacy Model Policy.Listen to Kymyona Burk's episode from Season 5.Learn more about Kymyona Burk.Connect with Kymyona Burk on LinkedIn.Get ready for Season 3 of the Amplify podcast Beyond My Years.Join our community Facebook group.Connect with Susan Lambert. Quotes:There's a literacy crisis in middle and high school, too." —Kymyona Burk"We've been ver proactive with early literacy, but more reactive, I believe, in adolescent literacy." —Kymyona Burk"Think more about what the students need in response to data instead of pacing." —Kymyona BurkTimestamps*:0:00 Introduction: Adolescent literacy policy, with Kymyona Burk, Ed.D. 5:00 "I knew how to teach English, but I did not know how to teach reading."7:00 Comparing and contrasting early literacy and adolescent literacy policy12:00 What good adolescent literacy policy looks like15:00 The case for universal screeners in middle school18:00 The Virginia Literacy Act and other states building momentum24:00 Professional development for middle and high school educators28:00 Advice for secondary educators33:00 "Think more about what students need in response to data instead of pacing"35:00 Educator preparation programs: the next frontier39:00 Closing thoughts*Timestamps are approximate

Adolescent Literacy, Episode 3: What adolescent readers really need, with Jeanne Schopf

In this third episode of our four-part adolescent literacy miniseries, Susan Lambert, Ed.D., speaks with Jeanne Schopf, interventionist, national literacy consultant, and editor of the new book Reading Isn't Optional: Fulfilling the Promise of Literacy for Secondary Students. Susan and Jeanne discuss why belief systems about at-risk readers are often the biggest barrier to change, and why that's true at every level of a school system. They also explore how scheduling, data, and coaching serve as system-level levers that principals and teachers can use to transform secondary literacy outcomes—and why leadership remains the single most powerful lever of all.Show notes:Our Summer Learning Academy is underway! Reserve your spot now to join Susan Lambert for the next session and dive deeper into the latest reading comprehension research.Check out our Science of Reading resources for grades 6–8.Read Jeanne's book Reading Isn't Optional: Fulfilling the Promise of Literacy for Secondary Students.Check out Improving Adolescent Literacy: Effective Classroom and Intervention Practices.Read Providing Reading Interventions for Students in Grades 4–9.Listen to "Focused Implementation: Doing less to do more," with Doug Reeves, Ph.D.Get ready for Season 3 of the Amplify podcast Beyond My Years.Read Susan's NEW Science of Reading Substack.Join our community Faceook group.Connect with Susan Lambert. Quotes:"Everything rises and falls on leadership." —Jeanne Schopf"I had to learn that people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." —Jeanne Schopf"If we really, truly want to change kids' lives and graduate readers, it's going to take all hands on deck. Everybody has to have a voice." —Jeanne Schopf"Success is a team sport." —Jeanne SchopfTimestamps*:0:00 Introduction What adolescent readers really need, with Jeanne Schopf3:00 Jeanne's journey from whole language to structured literacy7:00 Discovering structured literacy10:00 "We fall to the level of our systems"15:00 "Everything rises and falls on leadership."20:00 Belief systems and their impact on instruction and expectations22:00 Building intervention time into the secondary schedule26:00 What a good data meeting looks like30:00 Reading Isn't Optional as a call for action34:00 Inside the book: from belief to transformation42:00 Oral language and scaffolding grade-level text46:00 "You were never taught to read and it's not your fault"47:00 Closing thoughts*Timestamps are approximate

Adolescent Literacy, Episode 2: Moving the needle for adolescent readers, with Julie Burtscher Brown, Ed.D.

In the second episode of a special four-part Science of Reading: The Podcast adolescent literacy miniseries, Susan Lambert, Ed.D., speaks with Julie Burtscher Brown, Ed.D. a PreK–12 literacy facilitator. Julie talks about how she and her colleagues built a whole-school literacy initiative from the ground up, and what three years of data about it then revealed. Together, she and Susan also discuss why a few targeted, evidence-based practices (not sweeping overhauls) were what actually moved the needle for Julie's students; how content-area teachers can begin supporting literacy without reinventing their lessons; and what real, measurable change can look like at the secondary level when a whole school commits to the same practices. Show notes:Our Summer Learning Academy is back! Reserve your spot now to join Susan Lambert to dive deeper into the latest reading comprehension research.Check out our Science of Reading resources for grades 6-8.Connect with Julie Burtscher Brown on LinkedIn.Learn more about the Project for Adolescent Literacy.Explore Structured Literacy Interventions with Secondary Students.Review the IES 2022 Practice GuideWatch: Anita Archer: Secondary Reading—Implementing High-Leverage Practices.Get ready for Season 3 of the Amplify podcast Beyond My Years.Join our community Facebook group.Connect with Susan Lambert. Quotes:"Adolescent literacy is enormous and multifaceted. There's specialized instruction that needs to happen." —Julie Burtscher Brown"If you think of the word 'intervene' as a verb, it means to take action to prevent a predictable outcome." —Julie Burtscher Brown"Real, meaningful change can happen." —Julie Burtscher Brown"We reframed the word 'intervention' as an action, not a place." —Julie Burtscher BrownTimestamps*:01:00 Introduction: Actually moving the needle for adolescent readers, with Julie Burtscher Brown, Ed.D.09:00 A structured literacy program at Vermont's Woodstock Union High school and Middle School11:00 Grouping students by readiness17:00 Moving toward a whole-school literacy initiative23:00 High-leverage practices #1 and #2: Reading accurately and fluently30:00 High-leverage practices #3 and #4: Building word and world knowledge and accessing complex texts39:00 Building teacher leadership44:00 "Adolescent literacy is enormous and multifaceted. There's specialized instruction that needs to happen."46:00 Closing thoughts: what three years of whole-school effort produced*Timestamps are approximate

Adolescent Literacy, Episode 1: Foundational skills for adolescent learners, with Doug Fisher, Ph.D.

In this first episode of our special four-part Science of Reading: The Podcast Adolescent Literacy miniseries, Susan Lambert, Ed.D., speaks with Doug Fisher, Ph.D., a celebrated professor, author, and one of the most influential voices in adolescent literacy. They explore what the evidence really tells us about supporting adolescent learners, and what it means for classroom practice. They also discuss why Doug and his colleagues set out to find a new model for adolescent literacy, how self-efficacy powers literacy development in adolescent learners and what teachers can do to build it, and what "foundational skills" in reading truly means for adolescent readers—and why it is non-negotiable.Show notes:Our Summer Learning Academy is back! Reserve your spot now to join Susan Lambert for a pair of sessions that will help you dive deeper into the latest reading comprehension research.Check out our Science of Reading resources for grades 6–8. Connect with Doug on LinkedIn.Learn more about Doug’s book, Teaching Foundational Skills to Adolescent Readers.Read Doug’s article, A Model for Adolescent Reading Instruction.Get ready for Season 3 of the Amplify podcast Beyond My Years.Join our community Facebook group.Connect with Susan Lambert.Quotes:"Our literacy skills contiue to grow across our lifetimes." —Doug Fisher"The human brain operates on language, and reading, writing, speaking and listening, are the language operating systems of our brain." —Doug Fisher"The word 'foundational' to me means not optional." —Doug Fisher"Literacy is a gatekeeper. If we can develop stronger literacy skills in our student, we will change their lives." —Doug Fisher"The passion that educators bring also makes learning relevant." —Doug FisherTimestamps:0:00 Introduction: New adolescent literacy mini-series02:00 Foundational skills for adolescent learners, with Doug Fisher06:00 "Our literacy skills continue to grow across our lifetimes08:00 In search of a new adolescent literacy model14:00 Distinguishing early, general, and disciplinary literacy17:00 Why the Reading Rope was not designed for adolescent learners19:00 Introducing the reading circuit and self-efficacy27:00 Sentence level analysis31:00 Building self-efficacy through academic risk taking34:00 Redefining "foundational skills" for adolescent readers38:00 What this looks like in high school classrooms43:00 Teacher self-efficacy and the joy of student learning48:00 Closing thoughts: "Literacy as a gatekeeper"*Timestamps are approximate