Light After Trauma

Episode 109: Holding You in the Light with Alyssa Scolari, LPC

All good things must eventually come to an end. I thank you from the very depths of my heart for this wonderful journey!     I am so excited to be teaching my first online course! Learn more and sign up below! https://www.eeglearn.com/wwb There are so many contradictory ideas about what it means to be healthy. Diet culture and the weight-loss industry will have you believing that you need to work out every day and restrict your calorie intake in order to be the best version of yourself. In this course, we cover topics such as why diets ultimately don’t work, how fat phobia has impacted our society, how to become an intuitive eater, and how to avoid falling into dieting and eating disorder traps that society has set up for us. This course is for you if you: -are burnt out from trying diet after diet -are a parent who wants to make sure diet culture isn’t harming your child -are a therapist who is looking for continuing education credits (CEUs) -are a mental health provider who works with people with eating disorders You have two course options to choose from: A 3-Session Pathway and a 4-Session Pathway. Both includes three general lectures on the topics above. The 4-Session pathway is designed for existing neurofeedback providers. Details about each pathway can be found below. General Sessions September 22, September 29, and October 6, 2022 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM ET Additional Neurofeedback Session This session is designed for existing Nuro feedback providers to take what they learned in the first three sessions and apply it to their clinical work. We will discuss, in-depth, the theory and progression of working with clients and eating issues or disorders using neurofeedback. We will go over common qEEG findings and specific protocols. October 10, 2022 4:00PM - 6:00 PM ET This course entitles you to 6 or 8 CE credit hours if you purchase the CE add-on. You will be offered the add-on product when checking out. The number of CEs available will depend on whether you choose to sign up for the fourth session. Early bird prices are valid: August 19, 2022 to September 9, 2022

Episode 108: Major Announcement: My First Ever 
Online Course Is HERE!

I am so excited to be teaching my first online course! Learn more and sign up below! https://www.eeglearn.com/wwb There are so many contradictory ideas about what it means to be healthy. Diet culture and the weight-loss industry will have you believing that you need to work out every day and restrict your calorie intake in order to be the best version of yourself. In this course, we cover topics such as why diets ultimately don’t work, how fat phobia has impacted our society, how to become an intuitive eater, and how to avoid falling into dieting and eating disorder traps that society has set up for us. This course is for you if you: -are burnt out from trying diet after diet -are a parent who wants to make sure diet culture isn’t harming your child -are a therapist who is looking for continuing education credits (CEUs) -are a mental health provider who works with people with eating disorders You have two course options to choose from: A 3-Session Pathway and a 4-Session Pathway. Both includes three general lectures on the topics above. The 4-Session pathway is designed for existing neurofeedback providers. Details about each pathway can be found below. General Sessions September 22, September 29, and October 6, 2022 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM ET Additional Neurofeedback Session This session is designed for existing Nuro feedback providers to take what they learned in the first three sessions and apply it to their clinical work. We will discuss, in-depth, the theory and progression of working with clients and eating issues or disorders using neurofeedback. We will go over common qEEG findings and specific protocols. October 10, 2022 4:00PM - 6:00 PM ET This course entitles you to 6 or 8 CE credit hours if you purchase the CE add-on. You will be offered the add-on product when checking out. The number of CEs available will depend on whether you choose to sign up for the fourth session. Early bird prices are valid: August 19, 2022 to September 9, 2022   Check out the Light After Trauma website for transcripts, other episodes, Alyssa's guest appearances, and more at: www.lightaftertrauma.com Want to get more great content and interact with the show? Check us out on Instagram: @lightaftertrauma We need your help! We want to continue to make great content that can help countless trauma warriors on their journey to recovery. So, please help us in supporting the podcast by becoming a recurring patron of the show via Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lightaftertrauma You can also check out Alyssa at www.alyssascolari.com   Transcript:   Alyssa Scolari: Hello, everybody. I am back. Well, I mean, I guess technically I didn't go anywhere, [00:00:30] but I know I've been putting out episodes every week, except the beginning of the month of August. I skipped because I was very overwhelmed and I was getting ready to go away on vacation. And then since then, I have been putting out pre-recorded episodes, so they are episodes that had been recorded earlier in the summertime, so it feels like it's been forever since I've actually sat down and recorded a podcast [00:01:00] and that is for a very good reason. And one of those reasons is that I, like I said, was on vacation. I went to Fiji, which I'm so excited to talk about. Alyssa Scolari: I know when I have talked to people here in my regular life, they're like, "Oh my gosh, that's so far." And I guess it is, or it isn't, depending on where you live in the world. But I live in the United States on the Eastern coast, [00:01:30] so it was really, really far for us. We crossed the International Dateline. It was like 30 plus hours of travel, just to go one way, so we were really traveling for two weeks. We stayed there for seven days, but between all of the traveling, we were really gone for about two weeks. And man, I really needed it. I don't think I even realized how [00:02:00] much I needed it until I went. Alyssa Scolari: It was a, I guess, six hour flight to get to Los Angeles and then it was a 10 and a half hour flight to get to Fiji. But then once we got to Fiji, we had to take, because Fiji is made up of, I think it's about 333 [00:02:30] islands, so you can go to any of the islands in Fiji. And so we landed on the main island where the airport is and then we took one of those little puddle jumper planes to get to the island and it was the coolest thing I have ever done. Alyssa Scolari: When I say a little plane, I mean it held six people. That was [00:03:00] it. And the pilot, I could reach out and touch him. He was sitting right in front of me and we were low enough that you could see everything and the water there is just the most beautiful blue I have ever seen in my life. It was the most amazing thing. Once I got over my fear of, "Oh my gosh. I'm going to die in this thing." Because I was fairly certain, I was going down. Alyssa Scolari: So we took a puddle jumper plane over to the island of Yasawa [00:03:30] and once we landed, which it's not like there's not an airport on this island. It's literally because the island that we stayed on I think is only about a mile wide, so there's in the middle of the jungle because the whole island is the jungle and the beach, there's just a little strip of grass and that is the landing strip. So, we touched down on this little strip of grass and [00:04:00] we then took a car ride, or a van ride, through the jungle, on a dirt road, to get to the resort. So needless to say, between layovers and just the distance, it was exhausting. But when I tell you it was life-changing, I don't even know where to begin. Alyssa Scolari: So many people have asked me when I've told them, like why [00:04:30] Fiji? If all the places you could go, why Fiji? And the answer to that is, I was always going to Fiji, one way or another. My whole life, my heart has been set on Fiji. Please don't ask me why. I have never seen a movie where I'm like, "Oh my gosh. I want to go to Fiji." I've never really seen anything that has made me want to go to Fiji, but for [00:05:00] some reason that has always been on my heart and I really wanted to go for our honeymoon, but we could not afford it in the slightest. So, we just decided, "Hey, this is my dream and we are going to save up and we are going to go." And we did. Alyssa Scolari: For those of you who don't know this, well actually I'm sure none of you know this about me. I am a massive tropical [00:05:30] fish lover. We had a tropical fish tank. It was like sixty-five gallons, I think. So, it was pretty big and we had all of the salt water fish. We had it for a few years. We had to get rid of it, unfortunately, and bring the fish back to the store because our house was just entirely too small and our dogs were a little too rambunctious and I was afraid that they were [00:06:00] going to run into the tank. But it is a hobby of mine, not necessarily keeping them. I do want to keep them again someday and I absolutely love it, but being in the ocean and being with the ocean life, I am not somebody who's drawn to the beach. I am drawn to the sea. I am drawn to the ocean. In my next life, I will be a marine biologist. I can tell you a ridiculous amount of knowledge about all of the tropical [00:06:30] fish in the sea. Alyssa Scolari: For me, it's always been a place where I have felt like I would be the most at home, even though I've never really been to a place like that. I mean, I went to the Dominican Republic for my honeymoon and we got to do some snorkeling there and it was really cool, but I've never been to a place like Fiji that is so completely untouched and yet there was something inside of me [00:07:00] that always knew that that was where I belonged. And man, I am so glad that I made my dream come true because I was right. It is exactly where I belonged. I have never felt more at home in my entire life than I did standing on that beach. Not even standing on the beach, but being in the ocean. Alyssa Scolari: The first day we got there. Well, really the second [00:07:30] day, because the first day we were falling asleep at the dinner table and then we went to bed. The next day, we went out into the ocean and we swam out to a bunch of big rocks out in the ocean and we climbed up on the rocks. When I say, we, I'm talking about David and I. We climbed up onto the rocks and we just sat there for what felt like forever, looking back at the island. The island is just mountains and mountains of jungle and trees [00:08:00] and then white Sandy beaches. And then we were looking down below us and the water is crystal clear and you could see fish of every color swimming below us. It, I mean, you could see just these bright blue fish that were swimming below us. And of course I was able to identify them right away because they were damsels, which are native to Fiji, and I was so excited. I just felt the most at peace, I've ever felt in my whole life. Alyssa Scolari: [00:08:30] I spent every single day in the ocean. Every single day, snorkeling. There was one day where we got on a boat and we were jetting out into the ocean and we jumped off the boat and just in the middle of the sea, and we were snorkeling, and there was a shark right below us. It was like a reef shark, so it wasn't massive, but it was still a shark. I've always wanted [00:09:00] to swim with the sharks and just the patterns on these fish, the colors of these fish, and not just the fish, the sand crabs, the sea turtles. It's everything. It's the coral reefs. The corals are neon. It was a world that I couldn't even imagine in my wildest dreams. I had always dreamed of this and I always looked up what coral reefs look like, [00:09:30] but it was nothing that I could ever possibly dream up. It was beyond my wildest dreams. Alyssa Scolari: There were days where we would do private picnics on private beaches, so they would pack a cooler for us and they would take us out on a boat, like 20 minutes away from our resort. They would drop us off on a private beach and we would just stay on a private beach, just the two of us, all day long, snorkeling. And you don't even have to go out far to find the fish because the area [00:10:00] is so untouched. The land is so untouched. The resort that we stayed at, maybe holds 40 people. It is the only source of employment on the island. There were no humans. There was nothing there and we didn't even have cell phone service. So, I mean, it was just a time of my life. I've never experienced anything like it and it was amazing. Alyssa Scolari: [00:10:30] I did a lot of healing there. A lot of healing. I made a lot of decisions about just things and changes I'm going to be making and things I'm going to be doing in my career, so I'm happy. I'm also happy to be home though. I missed my dogs and my mother-in-law watched the dogs for us and it was so great to have somebody that we love and trust, be able to take care of the dogs. [00:11:00] And she's awesome, so she did great with them. And yeah, now I'm back and I have a very big announcement to make, which by the way, if you want to see pictures of Fiji, you can head on over to my Instagram because I posted pictures on there. It is lightaftertrauma. Alyssa Scolari: And speaking of my Instagram, if you haven't... If you're on my Instagram, then you might have already seen this announcement. But if not, then this is going to be new to you. I [00:11:30] have launched my first ever online course and I'm so excited. I have been a little distant from the podcast lately. You may have noticed. I've been doing my best. But the reason for that is because I have been working since June on creating this course, or May, I think I've been working on creating this course and it is finally here and I am so [00:12:00] excited. Alyssa Scolari: The course is called The War With Your Body and I collaborated with Leanne Hershkowitz, who is a neurofeedback provider and a therapist as well. She was on the podcast to talk about neurofeedback and developmental trauma. This was probably maybe a year and a half ago, so you'd have to go back into the feed and find it. But we decided that we wanted to do a course together because there really isn't [00:12:30] a lot out there in terms of online courses where people can truly learn about intuitive eating and diet culture and how to ditch those things. Well, not intuitive eating, but how to ditch diet culture and how to let go of that feeling that you have to be on diet after diet. Alyssa Scolari: There's a lot of misinformation out there and there's certainly no [00:13:00] shortage of diet culture and I've talked about diet culture and eating disorders on this podcast, plenty of times before, and body image and health at every size. There's no shortage of bad information out there where people are promoting weight loss and diets and calorie deficits and over exercising and we glorify thinness in this culture. And if you live in a larger body, you are made to feel horrible about yourself. Alyssa Scolari: And so we [00:13:30] decided, you know what, we're making a course and we're going to talk about all of it. So in this course, we talk a lot about the diet industry, the weight loss industry, on all of the different ways in which the diet industry can come into your life without you knowing it. Alyssa Scolari: We talk about the diet industry and social media. We talk about why diets don't work and why the majority of people reach something called diet [00:14:00] burnout, which is where you're just so sick of doing all the diets and you just don't know what else to do but you physically cannot go on another diet. So, we talk about that. We talk about the different types of dieters out there and we talk about the alternative, which is intuitive eating. Alyssa Scolari: Now intuitive eating is another super trendy term, but there's also a ton of misinformation about [00:14:30] that out there, so we are breaking it down. Intuitive eating does not look like eating donuts all day, every day, and thinking, "Oh, Hey, I'm eating intuitively." A lot of people think that's what it is, especially people who are trying to promote their diets. Like, "Oh, don't do intuitive eating because they think you should eat donuts all day." That's not true. Alyssa Scolari: We talk about the different aspects of health and the stigma against [00:15:00] larger bodies that is even in our medical system, like what it can be like going to doctor's offices if you live in a larger body. Even so much as getting on an airplane. I struggled as somebody living in a larger body, to fit in one of the seats in the airplanes, going to Fiji, and I was really uncomfortable and really triggered and it just felt so unfair that airplanes aren't made for all body [00:15:30] types. So, we just talk about how ingrained fat phobia is. We talk a lot about fat phobia and really how to achieve letting go, ditching diet culture, becoming an intuitive eater. Alyssa Scolari: There's advice and direct tips in there for how to deal with loved ones and friends and family members and even doctors. When you're going to the doctor, to avoid having, if you don't want to get weighed, [00:16:00] or to avoid having to talk about weight. Or even tips in there for ways that you can deal with your children. If you are a parent and you are worried about your child being introduced to diet culture, this is a course that is absolutely for you. Or, if you're just somebody who's sick of dieting and you want to make peace with your body and you want to make peace with food, this is also a course for you. Alyssa Scolari: We also discuss eating disorders and we discuss the [00:16:30] link between food issues or eating disordered behaviors and trauma as well. So, that is an important piece. I'm not saying that every chronic diet, or every person who diets has a history of trauma, or has an eating disorder. I'm not saying that at all. But what I'm saying is, trauma has been found to be linked to the onset of eating disorders and disordered eating. And so we discuss that as well. Alyssa Scolari: Now, if you are a therapist and [00:17:00] you are looking for continuing education credits, you can also find that in this course. So, this course is either three modules or four modules, depending on what path you take. So, if you are a neurofeedback provider and you are looking to learn about how you can utilize neurofeedback to help clients with eating disorders, then you can sign up for all [00:17:30] four modules. If that does not apply to you, then you would sign up for three modules. If you signed up for the three modules, then you would get six credits. If you signed up for the four modules, then you would get eight credits. Alyssa Scolari: Now the exciting thing is, I will be teaching this course, live. So, if you want to come to the live teaching of this course, you can hang out with us. You can ask questions. I would love [00:18:00] to see you there. I have spent two years, two years today actually, talking to you all through this microphone and it would be an honor to get to see your beautiful faces. Alyssa Scolari: So, if you would like to attend the live teaching that will be held via Zoom, so it will be virtual, so anybody can attend, anywhere in the world and module one will be held on Thursday, September 22nd, [00:18:30] from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM. And module two will be held September 29th, also a Thursday, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM. And then the third module will be held October 6th and that will also be 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM and that is also a Thursday. The fourth module will be held on October 10th, and that will be from 4:00 PM to 6:00 PM. Now all of these times [00:19:00] are Eastern Standard Time. Alyssa Scolari: So, if you are looking to sign up, but you live in a different part of the world, please make sure you take that into account. If you would like more information about this, you can head over to my Instagram. It is lightaftertrauma or my other personal Instagram, which is AlyssaScolari and also you can look in the show notes. The link to sign up will be in the show notes, [00:19:30] so you can do that, and you can also learn more about the course. Alyssa Scolari: And then also there is an early bird special running until September 9th, 2022. So if you would like a discount, if you want the early bird rate, please head over as soon as possible and make sure that you sign up before September 10th. So, September 9th is the last day that you can sign up. Alyssa Scolari: Now, for those of you who are interested in the course, [00:20:00] but you're like, "You know what? I don't think that I can make all those times work." That is okay. All is not lost because these live recordings will be recorded and they will be stored and you will be able to access the course at any time. So you can go in, you can purchase the course, and then you can have all the modules at once. And that's the same, whether you are a therapist, whether you are a parent, whether you are just somebody who wants to [00:20:30] see the course for yourself. Alyssa Scolari: This course is awesome. I have worked really hard on it. There's a lot of knowledge in here that honestly, people are not talking about and is not out there in the public and I got my information from two of the creators of Intuitive Eating, so I know that what I'm talking about is really, really helpful. It's all legitimate and I [00:21:00] can't wait. I cannot wait. I hope that this course helps you. I have been working on it for all of you and yeah, I just thank you. I thank you so much for all the support because if I didn't have the support, I wouldn't have even thought that this was possible. But because of you, it is, and I am really looking forward to seeing where this first course takes me and takes all of us. Alyssa Scolari: So, thank you so, so much for your time. [00:21:30] I know this isn't much of a content-oriented episode today, but I feel like I had a lot to catch up on and I wanted to introduce you to this new course. I hope you have a wonderful week. I love you all so much and I am holding you in the light. Alyssa Scolari: Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram, we are [00:22:00] at lightaftertrauma. And on Twitter, it is @lightafterpod. Alyssa Scolari: Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks, so please head on over. Again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you. And we appreciate your support.

Episode 107 Redux: Intimacy After Sexual Trauma with Dr. Nazanin Moali, Ph.D.

We are reaching back into our archives this week for an episode redux with Episode 34! Dr. Nazanin Moali is a public speaker, psychologist, and sex and relationship expert. Dr. Moali is also the host of her own podcast, titled "Sexology", where she dives into the psychology of sex and intimacy. In this week's episode, Dr. Moali and Alyssa discuss the impact that sexual trauma can have on us as well as the hope that comes with reclaiming our sexuality and discovering pleasure again.  Learn more about Dr. Moali and check out her podcast   Check out the Light After Trauma website for transcripts, other episodes, Alyssa's guest appearances, and more at: www.lightaftertrauma.com Want to get more great content and interact with the show? Check us out on Instagram: @lightaftertrauma We need your help! We want to continue to make great content that can help countless trauma warriors on their journey to recovery. So, please help us in supporting the podcast by becoming a recurring patron of the show via Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lightaftertrauma You can also check out Alyssa at www.alyssascolari.com   Transcript: Alyssa Scolari [00:00]: Hello friends. I hope everybody is well. I have some exciting news. We are adding a mini episode to the podcast every week coming soon. This episode is all about you. When I say mini I'm meaning it's going to be about 10-15 minutes long and what this little segment is going to be called is Survived and Thrived Stories. After starting this podcast I started to get people from all over the world who were reaching out to me to talk to me about certain things on the podcast that I touched on, certain parts of my story, specific topics that they could identify with, and I realized that there are so many people who want to share their story and want their voice to be heard, but they don't necessarily want to be identified or they don't want to share all of their story, so I wanted to create this mini episode series called Survived and Thrived Stories where you can email in anonymously or if you want to sign your first initial or just your first name, however you want, and you can share as much or as little of your story as you want. Actually, part of why I really wanted to do this as well and part of why this is so special to me is because I realized that when I first started sharing my story, I did it in writing and I did it anonymously and I actually wrote into a podcast. I wrote into a very famous podcast called My Favorite Murder because I wrote in about a trauma that I experienced that I was a victim of a crime and that was my first kind of like, it was the gateway into me sharing my story and into me I think ultimately starting this podcast and helped so much in my recovery and I want to give all of you the same opportunity. If you are struggling with something, if you have been through a hardship, if you are experiencing PTSD or if you have recovered or you are in recovery, because I believe recovery is a lifelong journey, I want to hear from you. If there's something you want to share, send it on in and I will read it aloud on the podcast and then of course I will comment and offer any kind of support that I can. Yeah, I just think it would be a really exciting way for everybody to get their voices heard and for you to be able to inspire so many others and to reach out to others and let other people who are sitting in the darkness know that they are not alone and that they can get through this. Whether you want to talk about things that helped you to recover, whether you want to talk about what happened to you, you can send it on over. I want you to send it to the podcast email. That's lightaftertrauma@gmail.com. Again, that's lightaftertrauma@gmail.com. Again, you will remain anonymous. I look forward to hearing from you. I would be honored to share your story on this podcast, so looking forward to it. Stay tuned and send me your story. [Music 00:03:47] Hello all you beautiful people. Welcome to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast. You know who this is. I am your host, Alyssa Scolari, and I am happy to be here this week with Dr. Nazanin Moali. Dr. Nazanin Moali is a licensed clinical psychologist and a, is it double A sect or AAS- Nazanin Moali [04:27]: AASECT. I know, it's a complicated name. Yes. AASECT. Alyssa Scolari [04:32]: AASECT, okay. All right. Certified sex therapist, her private practice is located in Los Angeles and she specializes in working with couples and individuals struggling with issues of sex and intimacy. She also hosts a weekly podcast called Sexology, introducing the most intriguing findings in psychology of sex and intimacy. Welcome. Thank you for being here. Nazanin Moali [04:59]: Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm very excited about this conversation. Alyssa Scolari [05:04]: This is absolutely one of my favorite topics to discuss. It's so difficult. I guess I'll just turn it over to you. Could you just elaborate a little bit more on the work that you do? Are you mostly in private practice in addition to the podcast? Nazanin Moali [05:21]: Yes. I have a private practice that I help people with all sorts of sexual health functioning challenges. One of the things that I'm very passionate about is helping sexual assault survivors, people who have experienced sexual abuse, to reclaim pleasure in their life because I know that this is something we will talk about, but one thing that breaks my heart, that at times people, they don't think they deserve pleasure after experiencing trauma or they think that their work is done when they process the horrible traumatic experience that they had, but I think it can be very important and empowering to cultivate pleasure back into our lives. That's one of the things that I'm very, very passionate about, supporting my clients to navigate. Alyssa Scolari [06:09]: You are living my dream. I love it and I can't thank you enough for doing what you do because it really is important. As somebody who is, I myself am a survivor of complex PTSD from a history of sexual abuse, and I'm also a trauma therapist and I've been in private practice for about three years now and one of the things that I see consistently showing up in my office for survivors of sexual trauma is, "How do I have any kind of semblance of sexual pleasure when I can't even be in my body? I have so much guilt and shame." You help people to be able to experience pleasure again, to be able to reclaim their sexuality and I think that that's amazing. It's amazing. Nazanin Moali [07:11]: Thank you. Back at yourself, that helping people with this processing of traumatic experiences of all sorts. I have lots of respect for people that are helping clients in early stages and all stages of processing the trauma. That's really rewarding but can be challenging work at times. Alyssa Scolari [07:30]: Yes. Yes, on both of our ends. It definitely can be challenging but so rewarding. So rewarding. In your experience what typically happens after people have survived any type of sexual trauma or sexual abuse? Nazanin Moali [07:49]: Well people kind of have different responses afterward when it comes to their sexuality, their relationship with their sexuality. It's my experience that some people can become kind of numb. They don't want to have any kind of sexual encounter with their partner or with themselves. They are in this continue to live in this fight and flight mode and sexuality is not a priority for them in that phase. I also see people that after experiencing assault, whether it's abuse, they start becoming more sexual. That they want to have more sex, they want to explore their bodies more, and both of those things are normal. I think it's important to think about normal meaning it's common, in a way. That's the common early phases of experiences that people have. Also we can develop all sorts of different challenges as a result of experiencing a trauma. Not everyone of course that they experience trauma develop PTSD, depression, anxiety, but for people who develop the depression and anxiety and all of those challenges, that also impact their sexual desire, their connection with their sexuality, and that can be another hurdle. Trauma can impact the way that we see our world and that can impact our relationships in our life, which can in turn impact our sexuality as well. There are a number of different ways that experiencing a trauma can transform us. Alyssa Scolari [09:25]: Yes, and have you found it to be even extra difficult for people to talk about because there's already so much stigma around sex and sexuality and experiencing pleasure, especially for women. Nazanin Moali [09:43]: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Absolutely. First of all I think most people that I encounter, even whether in my office or outside, there are some level of discomfort talking about sex. At baseline many of us are uncomfortable and I think added to that, when we're experiencing sexual trauma, that can even complicate things as well because sometimes people receive these unhelpful messages from others, kind of blaming them for their experiences. Perhaps you were wearing something provocative that led to this. Alyssa Scolari [10:19]: Right, or maybe you were drinking or what were you doing at a bar that late at night? Or things like that. Nazanin Moali [10:24]: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Absolutely. Like was the person in your home? Maybe then you welcomed them into your home, so what could you expect? All of these horrible messages. If you're feeling bad about sex to start with and then you experience some kind of negative messaging around us being part of what happened, which is ridiculous, so I think that also impacts how we're feeling about our sexuality, the experience. Additionally, for many people it's okay and it's common to experience some arousal during the experience of assault, during the abuse. It's your body trying to protect you. What if you're getting lubricated? All of those things are completely normally. It doesn't mean that you were asking it, it's just your body function of trying to protect you. I think that's also important for survivors to know. Alyssa Scolari [11:19]: Yes. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you for saying this. This was the hardest thing and for me personally, as well as for the sexual trauma survivors that I work with, is the hardest thing for survivors to be able to integrate, is this idea of well during the abuse, during the rape I was aroused. Or even I orgasmed, and therefore I must have wanted it. That's not at all the case, as you're saying, because we can't control our body's physiological response to our genitals being stimulated. Nazanin Moali [12:09]: Right. Right. I agree with you and I think unfortunately many people internalize those negative beliefs of thinking about oh God, perhaps on some unconscious level I wanted it or I was okay with it or I gave them the message that it was okay. I love that you talked about yes that's part of the experience, it doesn't mean that you were giving anyone a permission to do anything. Again, it could be a part of your physiological response, as you mentioned. At times it's a way for your body to protect you, so there could be a number of different reasons that physiologically you had that arousal. Alyssa Scolari [12:46]: When you say part of a way for your body to protect you, meaning like in the sense of pretending to go along with it in order to protect yourself? Nazanin Moali [12:56]: Great question. One of the kind of common challenges that I hear from some of my clients that saying, from female clients, that "I was lubricated so perhaps the lubrication shows arousal," but lubrication is a way that your genitals trying to save you from experiencing tearing, all sorts of challenges. That's why they say that it's your body wanting to protect you. Alyssa Scolari [13:22]: That makes sense. That makes sense. Right, so lubrication again doesn't necessarily mean that you wanted it. That's your body's way of trying to protect from any kind of intimacy or sexual trauma. Your body is preparing itself, trying to keep yourself from having tears or whatever kind of other injuries. Nazanin Moali [13:43]: Absolutely. Alyssa Scolari [13:45]: That makes a lot of sense. Yes. I'm so glad that you touched on that because I think that that's so hard for people. As you were saying earlier, some reactions that we have or some people go into sexual avoidance and some people become hyper sexual and when people come into your office do they realize that they have sexual trauma or do people typically come into your office for other reasons and then discover that they have sexual trauma? Nazanin Moali [14:22]: Well majority of my clients coming in for sex therapy knowing that they did the first part of the work. Kind of like knowing that I worked through the early phases of experiencing, kind of working through those difficult memories. Now they're ready to explore their sexuality and sexual wellness piece. That's why they're seeking out a therapist. But at times I had clients that they're coming in to me to say, "I don't feel anything during sex. I have this numbness," and when we're unfolding and unwrapping different parts of their experiences we realize this is stemmed from their experience of being a survivor and not dealing with the completely treating symptoms of experiencing that trauma. Alyssa Scolari [15:10]: Yes. Could you talk for a few minutes about that experience of, this is something that I absolutely relate to, of the numbness around having sex? I know for a long time before I knew that I had sexual abuse I truly thought that I was broken so I would imagine that you have people that come to you that are just like, "I don't feel anything when I'm having sex." Could you talk about what that process actually is and what's happening? Nazanin Moali [15:38]: Absolutely. I feel like for many of my clients when they experience their sexual trauma or other kind of traumas at times, they learn to disconnect from their bodies. They're very aware of what happens in their mind, but sex is about sensation so it's important to connect with our bodies and it could be a common experience but it's something that people need to work through because in order for us to connect with our pleasure we need to be able to pay attention to sensations and all of those experiences we have in our bodies, so that's part of it. Again, it could be one way for you to manage working through those or experiencing those horrible experiences because sometimes during the traumatic experience you're going through something really, really painful emotionally, physically, so consciously unconsciously you're disconnecting from your body to protect yourself. Now that you are ready to embrace your sexuality and introducing pleasure, it's really important to do practices that helps you to connect with your body again and work through the numbness. Alyssa Scolari [16:49]: Yes, so practices that focus on grounding yourself and being in your body. Nazanin Moali [16:55]: And kind of being okay yes, and experiencing pleasure. Alyssa Scolari [16:59]: Yep. Yep, exactly. Exactly. How do you help people work through the shame and the guilt around sex? Some people feel like after the abuse that they endured that they're not even worthy of having pleasure. How do you help people with that? I know that's a very broad question. I think it's very individualized, but what are some things you might do? Nazanin Moali [17:31]: Well I think one important thing is to identify the beliefs that you develop because of experiencing, as the result of experiencing trauma. What are some of the core beliefs that you develop? What are some of the things that you, the messages that you have around your bodies, around relationship, around sex? Part of it is identifying those messages and also examining that. Are they serving you? Are these accurate? What else we can put in instead of this belief that would serve you better and is congruent with your values. The life that you would like to lead. That's part of it. Also equally important is seeing it as a way to get revenge on the person wanting to take away your sexuality. Alyssa Scolari [18:19]: I love it. Yes. Nazanin Moali [18:20]: That can be motivating for many people, thinking about this person, this experience didn't break me. Perhaps I can work toward transforming myself and my experiences and my sexuality as the result of that. One of the research that I've done in graduate school was around posttraumatic growth. That many people, when they experience trauma, after that possible to experience growth. Growth meaning that it's not you're going back to the even pre-trauma functioning. It's more about going beyond and cultivating experiences that's beyond what you were experiencing. That would be even if you had a mediocre sexual experiences before trauma, this experience can provide you with this opportunity to experience growth and change your relationship with sexuality, with people in your life. Kind of anchoring in that, that can help people to feel more motivated to work through that. I think the other piece of it, thinking about incorporating pleasure back in your life. Not only sexual pleasure, it could be all sorts of pleasure because when we're thinking we're not worthy then we're not taking care of ourselves, we're not paying attention to our physiological needs, to our pain, all of that. Working on incorporating pleasure inside and outside the bedroom is also part of it and really working on cultivating awareness around your body. [inaudible 00:19:49] that focusing on doing grounding exercises, number of different exercises I give my clients to explore their body and finally their sexuality. That also can help people to feel more grounded and they're going to have more experience of embodiment. Alyssa Scolari [20:07]: You start with non-sexual touch. Nazanin Moali [20:12]: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Alyssa Scolari [20:12]: Which I think is so important. I follow this one person on Instagram. Her handle is My Orgasmic Life. Nazanin Moali [20:21]: Nice. Alyssa Scolari [20:21]: Have you ever heard of her before? Nazanin Moali [20:23]: No. Alyssa Scolari [20:24]: She's wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. She has these workshops and these seminars, it's called Body Sex, and she helps women to become more grounded in themselves and be able to explore their sexuality and tap into their sexuality but she starts with non-sexual touch. For many people, and I know especially for me, non-sexual touch was all I could handle for a long time. I think that that's important. Just even hand holding or even, and this is if you're with your partner, but there also can be non-sexual touch even if you're solo. Nazanin Moali [21:08]: Absolutely. I think definitely with partners, again kind of like checking in with yourself about your readiness on whether to introduce touch or not. At times we start as you said with hand holding or it could be caressing different parts of the body while you have the clothing on. We're not removing any clothing. That can take awhile and then after that when you're ready you can escalate things. Also as you mentioned, even when you are practicing solo, exploring putting lotion on different parts of your body and paying attention to the sensations, smells, all of those good things. You can practice this element of paying attention to your body. I think that's very important. Also breathing. Connecting with your breath can also be very powerful because when we're ready to be with a partner or we're ready to introduce solo sex, it's important to also to use our breath as a way to anchor ourself in our bodies. That could be one tool. Alyssa Scolari [22:11]: To use our breath as a way to stay grounded. Nazanin Moali [22:13]: Yes, and being focused in the moment because if we're connecting with people sexually, one common experience that many survivors have is they disassociate. They kind of leave their body and that's common and you can use your breath to anchor yourself back into your body. Alyssa Scolari [22:32]: Okay. That's really, really interesting and makes so much sense now that you're saying it. I had never thought of that before but yes, it makes so much sense. Nazanin Moali [22:41]: Thank you. Alyssa Scolari [22:42]: Such great, great tips and tools. I do want to be clear for the listeners out there that this is a process, which I know you can speak more on, that takes awhile. Nazanin Moali [22:57]: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Alyssa Scolari [22:58]: We can't expect this to happen within a week. Nazanin Moali [23:01]: You're absolutely right about that and sometimes it means that it's not a linear path. Sometimes you're escalating things with your partner and it feels okay, and something happens in your life and then your body kind of goes a little bit back. You're no longer ready for sex or you're not ready to connect in a specific way with your partner, so that's completely okay. It's important to have this compassionate view of yourself and okay, as long as you're working on this and moving forward, that's what's important. Recovery is possible but it's important to take it with your own pace because if you are going too fast then that might lead for you to experience all sorts of sexual challenges. I see people that many survivors develop all kind of sexual dysfunctions because they either didn't address the main issue around trauma or their pacing wasn't quite right, so I think that's important to keep in mind. Alyssa Scolari [23:58]: Yes, I like that you pointed out that it's not linear because I think that that can be very frustrating for some people and certainly was frustrating for me on my recovery journey where I would be okay sometimes and then during maybe a high stress time in my life it would be like, oh this is not okay, and it would feel defeating because it would feel like well great, I'm right back where I was. But that's not at all the case. It just ebbs and flows. In the same way that I think, and you could speak more to this, that any sexual relationship would ebb and flow, right? Nazanin Moali [24:38]: Absolutely. That's completely okay as long as you are focusing on communicating that with your partner and focusing on experiencing having good enough sexual experiences. We are living in a society that we're all constantly bombarded with what's sex supposed to look like. That it needs to be this glamorous production and everyone else is having sex every day and you're left out. It's important to think about who you are and what kind of sexual experiences you want. It's a goal that can change in different phases of our life. Alyssa Scolari [25:14]: Yeah. It's important to know that it doesn't have to be ... Just kind of like you said, like it's glamorized. If you're with somebody and the relationship really is right, it has to be this mind-blowing, earth-shattering sex that's every day and it's like, this is not realistic. Everything works differently depending on who you are. Different strokes for different folks, basically. Nazanin Moali [25:39]: Absolutely. Yes. Yes, and I think people at times think about if they're not experiencing spontaneous desire and we're not climaxing the same time, it means that we're broken or we're not compatible. I think it's important to know that our sexuality can look different and that's okay. Alyssa Scolari [26:00]: Yes. Self compassion and allowing yourself to be where you're at without judgment. Now there's even more I think shame filled than having sex with a partner, I would say for trauma survivors I've found that learning how to engage in masturbation again I have found to be extremely, extremely triggering for trauma survivors. As a sex therapist, when somebody is trying to establish pleasure again into their lives do you recommend masturbation first? Like getting to know your own body first before they step out into exploring other partners? Nazanin Moali [26:53]: Well you brought up such an important point, Alyssa, that I think at times even especially with my female clients, there's some stigma around masturbation. Whether they experienced trauma or not, kind of thinking about that this is not okay, I don't want to do it, for a number of different reasons. And paired with experiencing trauma, that message can get amplified. I guess one thing I want for people to know that it's a wonderful way of exploring and seeing how ready are you to have sexual pleasure in your life and you have the control over your body and you can stop and I think that can be a really, really good way that you can gauge your readiness. You can incorporate different touches and explore that. I think that can be very, very useful. I think one thing that's really important to also keep in mind, that sexual trauma, sexual assault is a form of violence. It's not about sex at all. It's about the violence. Alyssa Scolari [27:52]: Yes. Nazanin Moali [27:53]: I think it's important to keep that in mind and separating that from your sexuality and sexual pleasure. I think it's important to keep that in mind, so actively turning your mind that direction. I think when it comes to masturbation I think it's important even if you haven't done it before experiencing trauma, thinking about it as a way for you to reconnect with your body. Even if you are not ready to masturbate to orgasm or you don't want to, you can touch and stroke different parts of your body, kind of exploring and being curious about the sensation. Being curious what feels good and what doesn't feel good. At times our pleasure and our arousal can change after experiencing trauma. I have some clients, and I know this is such a controversial topic, but they incorporate their sexual abuse experiences as part of their erotic template. Especially if that was something that happened early in life, and they have all sorts of different sexual play that might not be mainstream but it's healthy for them because it helps them to feel in charge, it helps them to feel safe in the consensual relationship and context. Alyssa Scolari [29:06]: Yep. In other words, people will incorporate part of their abuse during their sexual arousal because that's what makes them feel A, aroused, B, like they have some kind of control. Nazanin Moali [29:23]: Absolutely. Alyssa Scolari [29:24]: Yes. Yes. I was just going to ask, and you are saying that we want to normalize that? Nazanin Moali [29:31]: Yes. Yes. Again, I think it's important to differentiate are you re-traumatizing yourself with this behavior? Is this trauma reenactment? Or this is truly part of your erotic template now because now our fantasies, our erotic blueprint and our sexual behavior can give us this feeling of safety and it's important for us to feel safe during sex. If this particular play, power [inaudible 00:29:57] change, whatever you're into, it gives you that safety, then there's nothing wrong with incorporating that. Alyssa Scolari [30:04]: Yes, and by explaining it like that and saying that you are washing the shame away from people who may be aroused by types of sex or types of foreplay that aren't mainstream and it's okay in a consensual situation. It is absolutely okay. I love that you said that. Nazanin Moali [30:32]: Thank you. Alyssa Scolari [30:33]: So important. So important. I just have to go back to what you said, because you said this earlier and I love it. It's about when we talk about trying to help people come out of the shame and the guilt that they feel and reclaiming their sexuality and their right to pleasure as a way to get revenge. That is so important. I think that so much of the healing comes from reclaiming your right to pleasure because then you turn to your perpetrator, figuratively, not literally, and you say, "You didn't win," because the assault, the abuse, the rape, it's not about arousal. It's about power. It's about power and violence and when you reclaim your right to feel pleasure, whether it's with yourself, whether it's with another partner, multiple partners, that's when you take back your power. Nazanin Moali [31:35]: I agree. You say it much better than me. Alyssa Scolari [31:42]: I just feel so empowered by what you're saying and the work that you're doing and it's wonderful. It's wonderful. Nazanin Moali [31:50]: Thank you. Same to you. Alyssa Scolari [31:53]: Thank you. I have to ask, how long have you been working in particular niche, this field, for? Nazanin Moali [32:00]: Well I did tons of different research in trauma, so in trauma it's been around 12 years. Sex therapy the last five years because I felt that I love doing trauma work but specifically this is something that I really enjoy, helping survivors and also people with all sorts of sexual challenges. That's been a newer niche for me. Alyssa Scolari [32:24]: Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure it's so empowering just to help people claim their right to pleasure. This is something that I have over the last year or so have strongly been considering going back for my PhD in clinical sexology because I want to be able to better help survivors of sexual abuse reclaim their right to pleasure, and you're doing it and it's incredible. And you're a phenomenal writer. The article that you sent me, which to the listeners out there, I will link this article in the show notes. This is an article where you talk about you give different tips on how people can start to recover. It was the posttraumatic growth that you were talking about, correct? Nazanin Moali [33:12]: Yes. A part of it yes, I talk about that. Yes. Alyssa Scolari [33:14]: You're a phenomenal writer and then you have a podcast as well. Can you talk a little bit about your podcast? Nazanin Moali [33:22]: Well thank you so much for allowing me to share this. I have a podcast, as I mentioned, called Sexology. I've been airing weekly shows the last four and a half years. I talk about science of sex and pleasure because one thing that I'm very passionate about is giving people accurate scientific research-based information because I feel like when we have the right information it will empower us to make right decisions because there's just so many inaccurate information out there. At times they're interviews, and at times the solos podcast episodes. It gets released on a weekly basis on Tuesdays. Whenever I'm talking about a topic that's not necessarily within my specific niche I invite a researcher, scientist, another psychologist, therapist to come talk about it. It's called Sexology and people can find it everywhere that they're listening to the podcast, like Apple Podcast, Stitcher, all of those places. Alyssa Scolari [34:21]: I can't wait to listen. Nazanin Moali [34:23]: Thank you. Alyssa Scolari [34:24]: That's so exciting. You're doing incredible work. Where do you see your career going, because you're also five years into working in this niche. I'm sure you've got big dreams and big goals to continue on to do other things. What are some of your goals? Nazanin Moali [34:42]: Well thank you for saying all of these wonderful things. You're such a kind, considerate host. Yes I'm very excited. What I want to do is I want to do online courses specifically helping couples to connect because I feel like there's a limit on number of people I can see in my practice. I love serving individuals and couples but I feel with e-courses, online courses and programs I can reach a broader audience and I can serve a bigger audience so that's what I have in mind for the next phase. Alyssa Scolari [35:14]: E-courses, that's amazing. Especially because everything is online right now. Awesome. Awesome, so you've got big plans. Nazanin Moali [35:22]: Thank you. Thank you. The other thing is around sexuality, whether it's podcasts or e-courses, I think it's easier when people can do the work in the privacy of their home or listen in the privacy of their home because it's just tough to A, talk to a stranger about sex or going into the office can be another hurdle. Alyssa Scolari [35:42]: Yeah. Agreed. It takes being able to do this type of work from home and from the comfort of their own homes gives all people, but especially trauma survivors or sexual abuse survivors, a relief from the shame. I almost wish that when I was talking about my sexual abuse, I wish that it was online. I wish we were on Zoom because I remember quite literally hiding under a blanket at my therapist's office while I would talk to her because of the shame. I do think it's going to give people, it's going to make people so much more comfortable to be able to do it from the comfort of their own homes. Nazanin Moali [36:30]: Well thank you, and I'm glad that you had the opportunity to go in person because I think even going in person can be very, very powerful. I think there's benefit to all aspects, whether going in person or courses. It's a matter of just taking action. I think that's what's important. Alyssa Scolari [36:47]: Agreed. Agreed. There are pros and cons to both. I think the benefit of going in person is that you are able to say it in person and to see somebody not judging you, normalizing the things you were feeling. I'll never forget the time when lots of my memories of trauma were repressed and I was in the uncovering phase and I was just having all of these memories come to the surface and I was sitting in my therapist's office with my husband and I kept trying to say, "But it feels good." What we were talking about earlier, like this couldn't have been rape because in the body memories it feels good. I couldn't say it and the next session I remember my therapist saying to me, "I could feel what you were feeling yesterday and I know what you're trying to tell me is that you feel pleasure along with the pain and that's okay." To be able to have that experience face to face was incredibly healing. Nazanin Moali [38:09]: Right. Right. What a wonderful gift that you got, the chance to work with someone that was so attuned with doing this work. Alyssa Scolari [38:18]: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well I thank you so, so much for coming on the show. Now if people want to find out more, I will absolutely link the article that you wrote in the show notes and do you have a website that people can go to as well? Nazanin Moali [38:37]: Yes. They can find my content, my podcast on SexologyPodcast.com. That would be a place that people can find me. Alyssa Scolari [38:47]: Perfect. I will link that in the show notes as well. Thank you for your time, for your knowledge, for your wisdom, your experience, and most of all for working in this type of field because it is so, so needed and you're making huge changes. Thank you. Nazanin Moali [39:05]: My pleasure and thank you so much for having me on your podcast. This was an absolute pleasure. Alyssa Scolari [39:12]: Thanks for listening, everyone. For more information about today's episode and to sign up for the Light After Trauma newsletter, head over to my website at AlyssaScolari.com. The really great thing about being a part of this newsletter is that not only do you get weekly updates on new podcast episodes and blog posts, but you also get access to the private Facebook community as well as access to all sorts of insider tips, resources and infographs that supplement what we talk about on the show. You also can connect with me and other trauma warriors. I'm super active on the Facebook community and I look forward to talking with you. [Music 00:39:52]

Episode 106: Don't Take It Personally with Alyssa Scolari, LPC

When people hurt us or wrong us, we often automatically assume that the problem is us. We find ourselves asking "Why don't people like me?" or "What's wrong with me?" or "What did I ever do to them?" Developing the ability to depersonalize others' actions and realize that the things people do often have very little to do with you can be life changing.    Check out the Light After Trauma website for transcripts, other episodes, Alyssa's guest appearances, and more at: www.lightaftertrauma.com Want to get more great content and interact with the show? Check us out on Instagram: @lightaftertrauma We need your help! We want to continue to make great content that can help countless trauma warriors on their journey to recovery. So, please help us in supporting the podcast by becoming a recurring patron of the show via Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lightaftertrauma You can also check out Alyssa at www.alyssascolari.com   Transcript   Alyssa Scolari [00:23]: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast. I'm your host, Alyssa Scolari, and I hope everybody is off to a good week. I am doing pretty well. I have been keeping up with my reading, which honestly has been helping me get through some difficult times. I just finished a book called The People We Meet on Vacation. Honestly, I do not recommend, unless you love a good rom-com, then you might like it. I just don't think that I'm a romantic comedy kind of gal, I didn't like it at all. I really expected it to be a little bit better in terms of like... The book is kind of like flashbacks of these friends who are on vacation in different parts of the world, and I just thought that I was going to get to feel like I was traveling with them, and that we were going to travel across the world with this book. But honestly, so much of it was just about sexual tension, and I swear to the lord almighty, if I had to read one more sentence about how he gently and softly swept a damp curl from her face and tucked it oh so softly behind her ear, I will vomit. It's just not me. It's just not me. No offense to the author. The writing is good, the wit is great, there were a few moments where I chuckled out loud, and I think that if you love romantic comedies, it's perhaps good, I was just not impressed. So I'm looking forward to my next book, which is going to be The Guest List by Lucy Foley. We will see. This one is, I think has murder in it, which I'm already much more inclined to like, and at the end of the day, I just don't think anything is going to top Where the Crawdads Sing. I'm almost sad that I've read it and that it's over, because I feel like there is no book that is going to top that. I'm sure that's not true, but right now my brain is still in Kya's world, and yeah, I just wasn't ready to leave that world. So anyway, I digress. I hope you're having a awesome, awesome week so far, let's get into it today. So, we are going to talk about kind of a somewhat difficult truth, and this is a truth that I have had to grapple with a lot over the course of my life, especially lately, and the truth of the matter is that not everything is about you. And I know that that can come off as harsh, and I probably shouldn't say it that harsh, because I have had people quite literally say that to me when I was a child, and it was really actually painful to hear, because I wasn't trying to make everything about me, I just was desperate for attention and help of some sort, so I shouldn't say it like that, right? It's not necessarily that not everything is about you. The nicer reframe for that is that you don't always have to take things so personally, because truly so many things that happen are not personal. And this is a really hard concept for so many of us, especially trauma survivors, because our brains are wired for protection. So our brains are always trying to seek out a threat, and we are trying to eliminate any potential threats before we end up getting really hurt. So when something happens, we just assume that that person meant it intentionally, or we just assume that that person hates us, and we assume that the problem is us. And we ask ourselves, "Why me? Why does this happen to me?" And that's us taking things really personally and assuming that people's behaviors are a reflection of who we are, and that is simply not true, and it really is one of the hardest things to unlearn. I mean, at least for me. I have had to grapple so much with this idea that people's actions and their behaviors and the things that they say are not about me, right? And let's talk about a couple examples, and I have a lot of personal examples about this, so I'm going to go to my personal examples. So for one, and this might seem kind of simple, but going to the doctors, right? As a fat person, going to the doctors is always a really stressful experience, because they almost always say something about my weight, unsolicited. And so I've gotten to a place where going to the doctors has become kind of like a anxiety-provoking thing for me, and I had a doctor's appointment just to get literally some vaccines, where I wasn't even going to be weighed, and I was driving there and I could feel my heart just pounding in my chest, and I'm like, "Man, what do I do about this?" And so I'm trying to talk myself through it and reframe like, "These doctors' comments to me about my weight is not about me. It is literally not about me." And you're like, "What do you mean? They're literally telling you to lose weight, it has to be about you." It is so not. It is about their own fatphobia, their own misunderstandings, or lack of being up to date about what actually makes somebody healthy, right? Because again, you can kind of look at my blood work and you can see everything looks great, and then you can just look at my body or the number on the scale and say, "Oh, well, you must be unhealthy." No, there are really no indicators that I'm not healthy. So this is about the diet culture, this is about the fatphobia in the medical system, this is about doctors not knowing, or really understanding, or really caring to learn about the Health at Every Size movement, it's not about me in the slightest. And so when I think about that, it helps me to shift my narrative from like, "Oh, I'm this, I'm that, I'm a bad person. Doctors don't like me, they don't want to work with me," or "They think I'm this, they think I'm that." They actually aren't thinking at all, really. They're doing exactly what their training has told them, which is "We see this number on the scale, we don't like this number, and we need to address it." That is literally what their training is, it's what their training has told them to do, it has absolutely nothing to do with me. And so reframing it like that has helped me to depersonalize it to the point where now I will go into a doctor's office and I will be like, "Hey, not getting weighed, and no, I'm not going to tell you what my weight is, unless I'm here specifically for my weight, or unless you need to know it for some medical reason, I'm not letting you know." And also I happen to have found a doctor at this point, at least a primary care doctor, who is amazing and totally, totally gets it. So that's just one example, right? People's behaviors are not a reflection of you, and I think that this is really important to remember with family members as well, right? Many of you know, I no longer have any contact with my family. It is not, and most likely is never going to work out with my family, unfortunately. And I have had to grapple a lot with the past, and with trying to understand certain behaviors and certain situations, but every time, when I'm in therapy or when I'm thinking by myself, my therapist will remind me so that I'm able to remind myself, "Their behaviors were never about you. Their actions are never... They were never about you." They were about X, Y, and Z things that quite frankly, I'm just not ready to share at this point. But let's say you have a family that you don't get along with, or you have childhood trauma and your family members were your abusers, and let's say you have parents who gaslight you, and when you try to talk to them about certain things that happened, your parents say, "That never happened, I don't know what you're talking about," or they say things like, "I thought you had a great childhood," or they try to guilt-trip you and say things like, "Oh, I guess I'm just such a horrible parent," very sarcastically. Let's say you have a parent like that, it can be really, really confusing and difficult for you to try to figure out what the truth is, because you have certain feelings and certain memories, but then somebody else who was there is also telling you something completely different, and so you are left feeling very confused and a little bit chaotic because you know what you remember, and it's very painful to not only be invalidated, but to have people tell you that your memories are wrong. And so it's really helpful in these moments to remember, again, it's not about you. People might tell you that your memories are wrong because they don't want to face it themselves. People might invalidate you because they don't want to have those feelings. They are running from feelings themselves. Some families will invalidate people or gaslight people, or say that things never happened so that they can keep their own secrets, so that they can maintain the appearance of normalcy and happiness and functionality. It has so little to do with you, truly. The same goes for, let's say you go to the grocery store to go grocery shopping, and you're checking out and your cashier is miserable. I had a cashier a few weeks ago, I went to the grocery store, and as I was almost finished, I had all these groceries in my cart, the cashier... Or actually the person comes on on the loudspeaker in the grocery store, and they're like, "Just so you know, our system is down and we're only taking cash right now." And so people were up in arms, because who carries that much cash on them? I feel like people rarely pay for groceries with cash anymore, certainly not me. So people were up in arms, people were leaving all their groceries and they're running out of the store, people are running to the ATM, people are screaming, yelling, and I actually didn't know it because I didn't hear it on the loudspeaker at the time. And so I wheel my cart up to the cashier and I'm standing in line, and she looks at me and she's like, "Hey, how are you?" And I was like, "I'm great, thank you, how are you?" As an aside, I was not great. I was having a terrible day, but I was like, "You know what? I'm going to be really nice." She was like, "You do know that it's cash only?" And I was like, "Just this lane, or everywhere?" And she was like, "Our system is down, we're not taking cards right now anywhere, so if you don't have cash, then you can't pay for these." And I was like, "Oh." She was like, "I don't know how you didn't hear that on the speaker earlier." And I was getting heated, let me tell you. Luckily there was a very kind man there who heard the way she was talking to me, and I don't even remember what he did, but he said something to kind of defuse the tension and I walked away, but I was fuming as I was walking away. And one of the things I had to keep saying to myself over and over and over again is "It is not about me. Her rudeness has nothing to do with me as a person, and I am not taking on that energy. That is hers to deal with. I am not absorbing that." And then I kind of do this visualization exercise where I picture myself almost turning into a rock, so that things will just bounce off me, so that I don't absorb it, because a lot of times I'm a sponge, so I got to turn into a rock. This happens even in stores when you're shopping, grocery shopping, whatever it may be. It also happens among friends or acquaintances, and I got hit with it hard a couple weeks ago, where I have this distant friend who's getting married and they... She has a shower that's coming up, and I am not going to be able to attend the shower, and so I wanted to send a gift. And so I of course did my due diligence and checked in with the maid of honor to make sure that I could reach out and ask for an address so that I can send this gift, and the maid of honor was like, "Yep, go right ahead, you can reach out," and so... Or maybe the maid of honor didn't say exactly that, but whatever the maid of honor said was pretty much like, "Yeah, go ahead." Like, "She knows, she knows about the shower." And so I just text her, and I just said like, "Hey, I'm not going to be able to make it to the shower, but I wanted to send you a gift. What is your address?" That is literally all of the information that I revealed. I didn't give anything away, nothing. Within like an hour or so, I get a text from one of this person's other friends, a person who used to be a friend of mine, but who I haven't talked to in years, and don't care to talk to, reached out to me and was like, "Don't say any more about what you're going to be doing and when, because this needs to be a surprise. We all want this to be a surprise and so does the bride," and it was just a passive-aggressive text message. And I was so hurt by it, because number one, I did my due diligence, I made sure that what I... I was very careful with what I said to not let anything slip. Number two, I don't understand, I texted one person, so why is it that that person that I texted felt the need to share my messages with somebody else, right? Obviously I know you're talking about me, obviously I know you have a problem with what I said, even though I don't know what I said, to the point where the person I texted, the bride, I asked for her address, she still hasn't gotten back to me. So I did something, I clearly did something, of which I don't frigging know, but this is exactly why I have chosen to cut ties with so many people in my life, because I don't put up with this bullshit, because it really got to me, and I started crying and I started saying to David, like, "I don't understand why people have to do this to me. I feel like people don't like me and I don't know what I did. I did everything I possibly could to not let the surprise out. I checked with the maid of honor. I just don't know, whatever." But I was taking it so personally until I sat down and I thought, and I was like, "You know what? This is actually who they are," because I've known these people for many, many years, and I've been around different groups and I've heard, they all talk shit about each other. Every time somebody so much as sneezes, somebody else knows about it. They all talk shit, they all gossip, they all look for something that somebody does wrong, and it just happened to be me. It just so happened to be me this time. I did something wrong, and instead of reaching out to me and saying, "Hey," I don't know, telling me what I did wrong, they're just going to ignore me or be passive-aggressive. Mind you, these are people that are way older than me. So it's just like, it's not about me. This is what they do. This is what they do for fun. They chew people up and spit them out for fun. And as soon as I was able to realize that, I felt so much better, and then I was able to just laugh it off and go, "Yep, this is what they do," and let it go, and didn't say anything, and realized, "You know what? I don't want friends like this, and we're done here." I also should say, I don't want that to sound like I have cut people off abruptly, because I haven't, and I don't recommend that. If you want to learn more about cutting people off versus talking to them and setting boundaries, you can look back in the previous episodes, but suffice it to say that these are people who I have decided just aren't good for me, and so these friendships are not going to go on. But it's not about me, it was never about me, and it was never about you either. How much angst and anger and frustration and tears do you think could have been saved if you remember that people's actions truly have nothing to do with you? How many tears, how many less tears would've been shed if you acknowledged that people, nine times out of 10, are just operating according to their own rules in life, and if those rules happen to hurt you, they're not really paying too much attention to that? They're not sitting up at night going, "How can I hurt this person's feelings?" They're just trying to make it through their lives, and that's not me saying that it's okay, it's not. But what I'm hoping that this does is try to take a lot of the pressure off of you to feel like you need to be better, like you did something wrong, like you need to change things. Listen, we all need work. We all need work, we all have things we have to change, but you don't need people to make you feel terrible, and you don't need to be personalizing people's actions in order to elicit change. People love to gossip, they live on it. People love to talk about other people because it makes them feel better. Families love to keep their secrets, because if we keep our secrets, then we maintain the system, then we don't have to deal with the pain and the feelings. Rude people out there exist because they're having bad days, and they project all over the world, and very little of it is personal. And the moment that you realize this and can continue to tell yourself this, that's the moment that dealing with people and being in relationships with people, friendships with people, becomes so much more manageable. I love you, I hope you have a wonderful week, and I will be holding you in the light. Thanks for listening, everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com, or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram, we are @lightaftertrauma, and on Twitter, it is @lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks, so please head on over. Again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you, and we appreciate your support.

Episode 105: When Weekly Therapy Isn’t Enough with Sarah Tatarski

Mental health missionary Sarah Tatarski joins Alyssa on this week’s episode to discuss options for when weekly outpatient therapy just isn’t enough. Sarah discussed her experiences with alternative treatment options such as partial hospitalization programs, ketamine, and alpha-Stim. She also provides new perspectives on navigating some of the major flaws in the mental health system.   Sarah Tatarski's Instagram: @vulnerableandnotafraid  Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families Info on the Alpha-Stim device   Check out the Light After Trauma website for transcripts, other episodes, Alyssa's guest appearances, and more at: www.lightaftertrauma.com Want to get more great content and interact with the show? Check us out on Instagram: @lightaftertrauma We need your help! We want to continue to make great content that can help countless trauma warriors on their journey to recovery. So, please help us in supporting the podcast by becoming a recurring patron of the show via Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lightaftertrauma You can also check out Alyssa at www.alyssascolari.com   Transcript: Alyssa Scolari: Hey everyone, this is just a quick note that Sarah wanted me to hop on and let you all know. Sarah's mom was not her abuser, so her father was an alcoholic and he was her main abuser when he was alive. Sarah and her mom have had an enmeshed relationship since she was young. Alyssa Scolari: That caused her mother to be a trauma trigger for her, so she just wanted me to come on and clarify that just so you can know who is who and didn't you know, think that somebody was her abuser when in fact they were not. Alyssa Scolari: So, I hope you enjoy this episode. Alyssa Scolari: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast. I am your host, Alyssa Scolari, and we have a guest episode today. It is so rare that we have guests on the podcast these days, but there is a special person who I met just like Jennifer Burns, which Jennifer, if you haven't listened to older episodes, Jennifer is the woman who we talked about crystals, with and how crystals have been used and have helped her with her trauma recovery. Alyssa Scolari: I met Jennifer just because she was a podcast listener and we connected. And we started talking about a topic that we were really passionate about. And a similar thing has happened with today's guest. Her name is Sarah Tatarski. And I met Sarah basically, through the podcast. She was a listener of the podcast, reached out and we started talking via Instagram. Alyssa Scolari: Now, Sarah is an artist, an aspiring entrepreneur, a cat mom, and a mental health missionary. She recently graduated from college in May of 2021, and has been on a mission since then to work through her core wounds from childhood and early adult life. Alyssa Scolari: After four years of only doing CBT and feeling ready to be deeply challenged, she tried more intensive therapeutic approaches. These include trauma focused treatment centers, family therapy, EMDR, ketamine for major depressive disorder, and the use of a cranial electrotherapy stimulation device called Alpha-Stim. Alyssa Scolari: Sarah recently started a mental health focused Instagram called Vulnerable and Not Afraid, to share her recovery from trauma and educate people on other therapeutic options that have personally helped her. Now, we are talking about a really important topic today, and I know I say that shit every week. So, forgive my redundancy, but you know how I love all things, mental health. Alyssa Scolari: But I think that this is particularly, important because for the last two years on this podcast, we have spoken about therapy and treatment pretty much from like a standard outpatient setting. So, how to process things when you're going to therapy once a week or twice a week in your standard outpatient setting. And that isn't always enough. And there certainly, have been many times where it wasn't enough for me. And I know that there are many people out there that hasn't been enough for either including Sarah. Alyssa Scolari: So, we are talking about different treatment options for when you find yourself in a place where therapy once a week or twice a week is just not enough. So, with that said, I will stop talking and I'm going to turn it over to Sarah. Hi, Sarah, welcome to the podcast. Sarah Tatarski: Hello. I'm excited to be here. Alyssa Scolari: I'm really excited to have you. I know we were actually, supposed to record like a week ago, and then I had COVID and lost my voice and sounded like not even remotely myself. So, thank you for rescheduling and bearing with me. Let's start out by saying, or by me asking you, like, tell me what even makes you passionate about this? If you're comfortable, can you tell me about a little bit of your own experiences? Sarah Tatarski: Yeah, in regards to seeking mental health treatment or my trauma or all of it? What particularly? Alyssa Scolari: Yeah. I think, you have a lot of experience and knowledge on alternative forms of treatment. And so, I guess what my question would be is like, did you get to a certain point in your life where you were like, "Hey, just going to therapy once a week isn't enough for me?" How did you know what was going on in your life? Things like that. Sarah Tatarski: Yeah. So, I've had a couple different, I guess you could say breaking points in my life. The first one was March 2019, and I had to take a medical withdrawal from school, but I instantly, felt better not being in school. The stressors were gone. I said, "Okay, cool. I can manage this." Sarah Tatarski: And I trudged along December 2020 came, I had this dramatic memory that I didn't remember resurface. I was living back at home with my mom and I was just spiraling like crazy. And that's when my... The first time my therapist said, "Sarah, you need to go to this trauma center." And I said, "Eh, we'll see." I told her the memory finally. And then, I felt better again. Sarah Tatarski: And so, I just trudge along, trudge along and finished school. And then, I just completely fell apart because post grad depression is real. I don't think people talk about it enough. They're like, "It's so fun. Oh, my gosh, congrats." And I said, "I'm miserable. And I have no path anymore. And I don't know what the hell I'm doing." And a lot of my friends went through this too, especially us graduated in 2020 and 2021, we were so burnt out from COVID and the huge changes we had to go through. Sarah Tatarski: So, for me, I said, "Oh, I'm going to take a break." And that break turned into me, spiraling constantly. And it just got to a point in end of June where I was not really eating, I wasn't really sleeping. That same memory came nagging at my brain. And my therapist said, "You need to forego your income and just go to a trauma center." And I said, "Okay." Alyssa Scolari: Ah, that's a hard thing to hear. That's a really hard thing to hear. Sarah Tatarski: Yeah, it just got to the breaking point then. And I had moved back home again in May 2021 with my mom, which didn't realize back then, but she was a huge trigger, and I didn't quite grasp why she was. And until later after all these therapies I've done, but I was just absolutely miserable. And I said, "Okay, you know what? I'm finally going to do this. I have the ability to not work. I have really good insurance. I'm going to take advantage of this." Sarah Tatarski: And so, that was the line where I was, I'm just miserable every day in my life to the point where I don't know if I can lip. So, that was my breaking point in June 2021. Alyssa Scolari: So, you're saying like you were at that point where you were like, "I just don't even know if I want to be alive anymore? Like, my safety might be on the line? Sarah Tatarski: Yeah, I think we never struggled with SI, suicidal ideation much, but it was getting to that point where I just felt like, I don't know, can I go forward in life? And that's what motivated me to get different help and more intense help. Alyssa Scolari: Okay. So, I really appreciate that you said that, because I think it's very important to highlight that this country makes it seem like in order. I mean, I guess we can just also start out by saying that the system for higher levels of care, isn't the greatest, it's not the greatest. Alyssa Scolari: And so, on one hand, we shame people from talking about their suicidal thoughts, for fear of them getting locked up. But then, on the other hand, when people have suicidal thoughts, they are often told when they go to a hospital and they want treatment. They're often told, "Well, you actually, have to make an attempt," in order to be hospitalized or in order to not even just be hospitalized, but in order to eventually, get to a treatment center. Alyssa Scolari: So, I think it's really, important that you said, "You know what? I'm not necessarily suicidal. I'm not necessarily a danger to myself, but I'm not okay with the quality of life that I currently have. And therefore, I'm seeking alternative forms of treatment," because you don't have to get to a point where your life is on the line to decide, to seek different forms of treatment. I love that you said that. Sarah Tatarski: Yeah. And definitely, I didn't want to get to that point. And it was teetering between that. I've met friends at my trauma centers who are, have attempted, were attempting, got transferred from intensive care to where I was. And yeah, I don't think it's acknowledged enough that you don't have to be either attempt or actively, planning to seek help because I didn't want to get to that point. I never want to. And I hopefully, never will. Alyssa Scolari: You had mentioned a little while ago that you realized after different types of treatment, that your mom was a trigger for you. And one of the questions I have is, was it difficult for you to go to a treatment while living, because you had lived with your mom while doing some of this treatment, was it difficult to live with somebody who is a trigger while going to a treatment? Because I think a lot of people can probably, relate to that. Sarah Tatarski: Yeah, it was a whole another challenge. I'm in my trauma for, let's see, the first trauma center I went to, I was there from 9:00 to 4:00 p.m. I did therapy three times a week individually. We had groups all day, trauma groups, four times a week and relapse prevention, which was incredible, which by the way, I had no idea what relapse prevention was. And I said, "I don't do drugs." Sarah Tatarski: So, I just laughed it off until I got there and said, "Oh, I have a lot of toxic behaviors that are not related to alcohol or any kinds of other drugs." So, life changing. Alyssa Scolari: Yes. Sarah Tatarski: But just doing that all day and having the realizations that I was having. And then, I come home... And by the way, I didn't mention this. I'm in my childhood house where I experienced my trauma, and that is where I'm living right now. Alyssa Scolari: Oh, my... Okay. Sarah Tatarski: That's a whole another level of, I'm living with a trigger, I'm living in a trigger, and I came home every day and I'm like, "Ah." I'm like running around, like a chicken with its head cut off. I'm freaking out. I can't ground myself. I can't focus on my treatment. And the only relief I got was when I stayed with my friend for a whole week and I was like, "Oh." I can come back, and I just lay in bed. I'm like, "I'm so happy and relaxed." But it was extremely challenging. I don't recommend it. I recommend anyone doing what I did. Alyssa Scolari: Yeah. Sarah Tatarski: I mean, living with your trigger and living in the house you were abused. I recommend trauma treatment. Absolutely. Of course, I wouldn't be on here otherwise recommending it. But it made the process that much harder because there was a point, I told my therapist, I said, "I just want to be a prostitute right now. And move out of my house." And he's like, "Sarah, no." And I'm like, "But that's how I feel." And he said, "I'm not going to act on it." Sarah Tatarski: But that's how overwhelmed I am right now. It's like, I will do anything to get out of my house. Of course, I never acted on it. But that's the thought... Alyssa Scolari: Right. So, the point where... Sarah Tatarski: ... that happened. Alyssa Scolari: ... you're considering. Yeah, you're considering like prostitution or sex work to get out. You're like, "I will do whatever I have to get out of this place." Sarah Tatarski: Which is, there's nothing wrong with sex work. It's just not my... I have too much trauma to engage in that field sex workers. You'll do whatever you want. But yeah, that's just to the point. I was so vulnerable that that's what I was just willing to do. And that's not healthy situation to be in. Alyssa Scolari: I mean, right, exactly. It would be ideal. Again, like you said, there's no issue with sex workers. It's feeling like you're trapped and you're backed into a corner to the point where your only way out is considering an option that you know would be retraumatizing for you. That's when you know all the alarm bells are sounding, you're like, "Okay, I need to do something here." Sarah Tatarski: Exactly. Yeah, it was very intense. Alyssa Scolari: So, then can you talk a little bit about, I guess, let's go in specifically, like where should we start? What type of treatment did you start with? Because I know you've done a couple of different things. Sarah Tatarski: Yeah, there were a lot of things I've done the past year. So, I'll just briefly summarize. And then, if you want to ask more specific questions, we can go from there. But the first thing that I did was in July 2021, I went to a partial hospitalization program at a trauma center here in New Orleans called River Oaks, recommended fully. Sarah Tatarski: So, I wasn't living there. I was there from 9:00 to 4:00 like I had mentioned. You're just there during the day, you don't live in the hospital. It's scary inside. I would not want to... Not wanting to stay there. I did not want to stay there. But... Alyssa Scolari: Scary like hospital setting type like? Sarah Tatarski: Yes, it was cold and there were not a lot of lights, and you went outside or not a lot of windows, and you went outside for like 20 minutes a day. It was like jail. So... Alyssa Scolari: Yes, so many partial hospitalizations, like programs are like that. I've been to one myself and it feels like jail. And I'm like, "Why aren't these a little bit happier? You're trying to help people with their mental health, why do we feel like we're locked up?" Sarah Tatarski: Exactly. So, I did that. And then, once I was done with that program, I started seeing a therapist for EMDR. And then, in December 2021, I went to a residential treatment program called Innova Grace in San Antonio, Texas. And I was doing a lot of EMDR there. I used the [inaudible 00:14:40] bed. I used the Alpha-Stim, which I'm wearing right now, like I mentioned earlier. Sarah Tatarski: And after that, continued to do EMDR, that's what I'm doing with my therapist right now. I started ketamine for major depressive disorder. And now, I'm using the Alpha-Stim again. And forgot to mention on top of that, the past, however many months it's been since August 2021. So, nine months, I've been in family therapy. Sarah Tatarski: So, I'm doing 10 different therapies. And also, I recently, joined Adult Children of Alcoholics group and dysfunctional family. So, I've been going to that support group about every two weeks to every week. So, if you want me to expand on all of that, that's a lot of different treatments that I just mentioned. So, happy to talk about any of it in more detail. Alyssa Scolari: Yes, I have questions. I think the first question is, how did you end up getting involved in, especially in a post COVID world, in Adult Children of Alcoholic support group, because I think that there are many people out there who are listening, who would be very interested in that. Sarah Tatarski: Yeah. So, there are always meetings everywhere in the country and world at all times. And a lot of them are on Zoom now, too, which is great. So, you can just hop on Zoom at any time. And for me, I prefer in-person group. So, I go to the one at the church near my house at 5:00 p.m. on Sundays. Sarah Tatarski: And the way to get involved is to just go to their website, look up Adult Children of Alcoholic/dysfunctional families. And if you want to go to in-person meeting, you can just look up your town and see where it is. And if you don't want to go in-person, you can join literally any group, like from what I've seen online, probably, at least half of them are hybrid. Sarah Tatarski: So, you can go in-person if you want, you can go in Zoom if you want. But oh, when they read the laundry list, I don't know if you've ever read that. It's the 14 traits that you can have as an adult with having a dysfunctional family or an alcoholic. And I fit all 14 traits. So, that's when I knew I belonged. Alyssa Scolari: Oh, I don't think that I've ever read that before, but I bet it would be very jarring for me. Sarah Tatarski: You will be surprised. And when I say all 14 traits, I don't mean I have those now. I mean, at some point in my life, I have all 14 of them. So, even if you have one, I'm pretty sure, they're like, if you have one of these traits, you are welcome here. Alyssa Scolari: Wow. Okay. And for the listeners out there, I will link that in the show notes, the website that you can go and you can check it out because I think it's very important and I know that a lot of you can relate. So, okay, cool. So, thank you for that. Alyssa Scolari: So, now question about, so in terms of EMDR, I have, I think... So, I'm going through EMDR right now and I've been open about my experiences, both on my Instagram and I've shared a little bit on the podcast and we've also had people come on and talk about EMGR. Alyssa Scolari: I guess, the main question I have for you about EMGR because for those of you out there who don't know what it is, I talk about it in depth with a licensed clinical social worker. Her name is Melissa Parks on the podcast, and you can feel free to go and check that out. It is a really fantastic treatment for trauma that focuses on rewiring your nervous system, like your brain. So, for EMGR, did you find that was particularly helpful for you? Sarah Tatarski: It's definitely helped. It's not perfect. Of course, no treatment is perfect, but I've honestly, been only able to work on and am working on two memories. But the thing about these specific memories I'm working on is that, they hold a key to other things that I can't remember. And that's why, my therapist says we're going to keep working on these two. And I'm like, "No, I want to be done with them." Sarah Tatarski: But it's definitely, helped me to calm down in regards to my body not being as reactive. And I've noticed that the first memory that really resurfaced after about eight years and that drove me to get the help that I needed. My reaction to it has gone down a lot. Sarah Tatarski: My bodily reaction, I used to like throw up. I used to not eat. And now, it will come up and I'll be like, "Okay, deep breath. It's okay. You're safe like, that's not happening right now." We've talked... I've talked about it many times. I opened up to friends, I went up to multiple therapists. Sarah Tatarski: And so, I'm able to calm myself down. On the past, I literally, I would line around like running around my house. I don't know what the heck I'm doing. I'm scared, all this stuff. So, I significantly reduce my reactions while, and I don't want people to think that it gets rid of the memory. I think some people are like, "I want to get rid of my memories." And I'm like, "That's not how it works." But it reduces your bodily reaction to it. Sarah Tatarski: And I definitely notice, like I said, I'm not violently reacting, like I used to in the past. So, I found relief with it. My brain also likes to block me thinking about these two particular memories because there's some of the most intense memories I have. But as I continue to work on it, I'm able to be less reactive and process it with my therapist. Alyssa Scolari: Yeah, yeah. No, and I think that's ultimately, right. There's no such thing as a perfect treatment. But EMDR, I think is supposed to be beneficial at just like relaxing your nervous system. So, that like hyper vigilance isn't there as much. All right. So, can you talk about Alpha-Stim, and then there was one other... What did you say in addition to Alpha-Stim? Sarah Tatarski: I've been doing ketamine for major depressive disorders. So, there's that, in addition to the Alpha-Stim, family therapy, and then my trauma centers, and EMDR. Alyssa Scolari: Okay. Sarah Tatarski: Which is all like, they're all interconnected, anyway. Alyssa Scolari: Right, right. And can you talk about Alpha-Stim? Because I think that's a very new term. I'm not even familiar with Alpha-Stim. Sarah Tatarski: I am shocked at, I actually, spoke with a psychiatrist a couple of weeks ago. He monitors me when I'm doing ketamine. And I told him about it. He said, "I've never heard of that." And I'm like, "Whew, this is alarming." I'll go into details about it, but I'll give you a little bit of a history because I was wondering, why is this not talked about every single day? Why is this not open on the market? And I'll tell you this. Sarah Tatarski: So, I read about the history of Alpha-Stim. Yes, I'm a nerd. I read the little pamphlet that came with it. But so, the way that it works is, it uses biophysics and biophysics used to be taught in medical school up until the 20th century. And then, the chemistry took over and they stopped teaching biophysics. Of course, we know that pharmaceutical industry has a huge power over everything in this country. Sarah Tatarski: And so, I found that interesting that they used to teach biophysics, but now they don't. And that's probably, why it's not really mainstream as you would want to call it. But I'll just read you exactly, what they say from the website, because I don't want to give any misinformation to y'all. Sarah Tatarski: So, the way that it works is, it's cranial electrotherapy stimulation, and it uses small electrical currents to stimulate certain brain regions. And these currents mimic the electrical activity naturally occurring in the brain, which in turn regulates the electrical part of the brain's electrical chemical signals. And this is how it helps you to get piece of calm. It basically, regulates you without any drugs, just pure biophysics, which our body is... It's just a huge electrical network. Sarah Tatarski: And that's how they use the power of our body to heal with the Alpha-Stim. And you have to use it consistently, like every day over months to really get the full benefits. But you feel benefits within even like a day, because I hadn't used it in three months since I was at my last trauma center, and I got in the mail about two weeks ago. I put it on my ears and after, I was like, "I feel so much better already." And I forgot how magical this thing is. So... Alyssa Scolari: Wow. Wow. Sarah Tatarski: It's been incredible. I'm sleeping better. I've had one migraine the past 11 days. I usually, get them every single day of my life. So, I'm not making the stuff up whenever I would never tell anybody to go buy a medical device if it didn't work. But I just feel so much better. I feel more rested, because I have chronic pain due to my trauma, and I just feel a lot more content with the past two weeks, which is hard for me to say, usually. Alyssa Scolari: I mean, yeah, that's incredible is this. So, when you say like, I have this and I put it on my ears, like, is it, what is it? Are they just like little like sensory, like clips you put on your ears and you have like a little machine around your neck? Sarah Tatarski: Yeah, it's literally this small. Alyssa Scolari: Wow. Sarah Tatarski: Nobody can see it. It's about the size of like a palm, or like a hand depending on how big your hands are. I know, I have a little... I'm small. So, my hands are a little small, but it's about the size of my hand. And the way that it works is that, you put a solution on your ears, and then you clip the electrodes onto your ear. And it just sounds little, little electrical signal to your ear. Sarah Tatarski: And so, you feel this very mild little prick to your ear, but it doesn't hurt. And that's it. You use it at your house. You can use it on an airplane. You can use it wherever you want to use it. It's just like the size, even smaller than the iPhone. So, it's so easy to carry around if you need it to use it anywhere. Alyssa Scolari: And is there like, is it something that like insurance covers, or do people just buy it out of pocket? Do they have to go through like a therapist or a treatment center or anything like that? Sarah Tatarski: So, from what I know, the only insurance that covers it is TRICARE through the military. And only if you're active duty, will they pay for it in full, which is... Alyssa Scolari: Okay. Sarah Tatarski: ... annoying. So, without insurance, it costs $840. And while it sounds like a lot, the amount of money I've spent going to doctors asking, "What is wrong with me? Why am I in so much pain?" The amount of days I've missed work, the amount of days I've missed out on life, the $840 is beyond worth it. Alyssa Scolari: Yes. Sarah Tatarski: And some insurances may cover it. I don't have that answer. My insurance is really good. And they said, "No." They outright said, "We're not even going to give you money back." And I said, "That's really frustrating." And $840 is a lot for people. It's a lot for me. But I got to a point where I was just breaking down and I was like, "I can't do this. I cannot live like this every day of my life." Sarah Tatarski: And so, I took the plunge, I ordered it, I use it twice a day, and I just, I feel so much better. I can't even emphasize. I wish I could show data to show how much less pain I'm in. But like I said, they have a nine out of 10-success rate, and they've been studying this for over 40 years. So, this isn't something that's new to the market. It's not, "Oh, in 2020 we invented this device." It's 40 plus years of research. Alyssa Scolari: Yeah. And it's infuriating because it's also one of those things where it's like, like you said earlier, why is this not talked about more? And it's like, "Well, because it's so successful." And when it's so successful, who suffers big pharma because people require less and less treatment and medication. And therefore, if you heal, you aren't going to be paying as much money on other forms of treatment like meds. It's very, it's no surprise that it's one of those things that's kept hush, hush because... Sarah Tatarski: Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I'm not going to go too much on the tangent because then we would talk for hours. But the big pharma is based on a subscription model. They want you to be sick for your entire life. Why would they not want you to be? They want you to suffer. So, they make money. And that's why I think, insurances aren't going to cover it because they are very much tied into big pharma, of course. Sarah Tatarski: And so, I tell everybody since I got it the past two weeks, anyone that I meet or who was in my life, I'm like, "Pay the $840 if you can, it is worth every dime." And I would never tell anybody to buy something if I really didn't believe it, because that's not like a $100. That's 840. But... Alyssa Scolari: Yes. Sarah Tatarski: ... Like I said, I mean, I'm sure the amount of us who've been through trauma or even if you haven't been through significant amount of trauma, you probably, have some amount of pain from being on your computer all day. So, I just recommend it to anybody if you're able to afford it or, save up to get it. It's really, been incredible. And I'm so lucky that my trauma center, I went to in December to February had access to the Alpha-Stim for me. Alyssa Scolari: Yeah. That's incredible. And I will also link the website, the Alpha-Stim device on the show notes, so you can check that out. And then, so let's talk about ketamine because this is one that I am more familiar with, but I have not spoken with anybody who has gone through it. So, can you talk about like what it is and what your experience is with it? Sarah Tatarski: Yeah. So, I will say there are different kinds of ketamine treatment. There's the nasal spray, which I do. There's the shot and there's also IV. And I don't know which form is the most intense, but I know that the IV one is you get a very strong high and it's very strong, with Spravato, which is the ketamine that I do. Sarah Tatarski: I do two nasal sprays, one in each nose, and you can go up to three sprays or three doses. Sorry, I don't know how many sprays it is, but I do the two. Some people do three doses. I'm very sensitive to drugs in general. So, I was like, "Let's go with the lower one. I don't want to get too high." I would like to see how I feel first. Alyssa Scolari: Yeah. Sarah Tatarski: So, I started looking into do ketamine last fall and my insurance rejected me. I don't know how I don't qualify for it. I would just spent two months at a trauma center. I don't know how they... Apparently, they didn't want to cover it. I struggled with major depressive disorder. Sarah Tatarski: So, I felt really upset. And then, so kindly the clinic I went to called me and I said, "You know that the Johnson& Johnson Patient Assistance Foundation could help cover you, if you qualify, if you don't make enough money, or if you don't, there's some income bracket level that I'm not 100% sure what it is. And if your insurance denies you, they could consider covering you for up to year, and then renew you. Sarah Tatarski: And so, I applied. I'll be honest, I had been making $0. I'd just come out of a trauma center. So, I definitely knew I would qualify because one, my insurance rejected me. Two, my income was at zero at that point. Alyssa Scolari: Right. Sarah Tatarski: And they sent me a card, and for a full year they will cover it. And all I have to pay is, I think a $25 copay each time because out of pocket, it's like $250. So, I'm extremely, lucky that the J&J Patient Assistance Foundation was covering me. And yeah, I started going in March 2022. It's a big commitment, I will admit that. I don't know what it's like for, like I said, the IV or the shot. Sarah Tatarski: But with Spravato, you have to go twice a week for a month and you can't drive yourself there or back because you're too high. And then, the next month, you only go once a week. And then, after that is maintenance, if you choose. So... Alyssa Scolari: Wow. Sarah Tatarski: During the... Yeah, it's a big commit. During the process, you're just lying in a room for two hours by yourself. At least, that's how my clinic does it. So, I'm just lying there and I'm like, "Hi, hi is heck in." I'm just lying there. And it's a really, nice time to almost meditate or just reflect for two hours. I literally, can't do anything. I'm too high. I can't barely look at my phone. Sarah Tatarski: And it's been nice to have that reflection time, while I'm not exactly sure, exactly if it's benefiting me because it's hard. I had just come from a trauma center. I'm in therapy. I'm in family therapy. I have so many variables in my life that are helping me to heal that I can't exactly say, is ketamine helped me because there's just too many factors in my life right now that are helping me feel better. But that forced relaxation has been a challenge for me, because I struggle with relaxing and forcing myself to just exist in the world and just be... Alyssa Scolari: Right, as to many trauma survivors, yeah. Sarah Tatarski: Exactly. So, that's been one of the most healing aspects of ketamine is just being. I even cried during one session. I was like, "What are these emotions that are just suddenly coming up?" I was like, "This is healthy. What?" Alyssa Scolari: What is this? Yeah. Sarah Tatarski: So, it's supposed to help people who struggle a lot with SI. Again, suicide ideation for people who don't know the shorthand. But I have other friends who've done ketamine in different forms and they say, it has changed their life. Again, too many factors in my life are going on for me to give you a definite answer. Yes, it's helping me. Alyssa Scolari: Hard to say. It's hard to say, yeah. Sarah Tatarski: But just being in that community, going to clinic every week and seeing the psychiatrist and stuff, it's more nice to just like have a little community of little ketamine people and we talk to each other. So, that's been nice. Alyssa Scolari: And there are restrictions because ketamine is a drug. So, are there like, do they do thorough evaluations on like, drug abuse history? Because I would imagine that can be tricky. Sarah Tatarski: Yeah. So, I forgot to mention. Of course, I had to do an evaluation. They had to even diagnose me because technically, I mean, there's a lot of diagnoses that I have that are not diagnosed officially. So, they had to do that to make sure, and then send that evaluation to my insurance and be like, "Hey, she has major depressive disorder." Sarah Tatarski: As a former... If you're a recovering drug addict, you can still do ketamine, but you have to be heavily much more monitored than me for who doesn't have a history of drug abuse. But definitely, they're not just throwing it around and saying, "Oh, yeah, everybody can do ketamine." Even if you have major depressive disorder, they need to clear you to make sure that you won't relapse or that you're being monitored on different levels to know that you're okay throughout the process and not going to relapse into a drug addiction. Alyssa Scolari: Now, do you know like, okay, so EMDR helps relapse your nervous system. And similarly, do you know how ketamine is supposed to work like on the body? Sarah Tatarski: Yes. So, I was always thinking ketamine was a psychedelic, but it's not. It slows down the brain and that's what it does. It just slows everything down. You're like in a drunken state while you're in the room. And I think that feeling of, "Oh, I have time to really think and just exist in the world and relax and think about things in a different way. Instead of, with trauma, our anxiety is so high. Sometimes, we can't even think straight. We're just like, ruminating, ruminating, intrusive thoughts all the time. Sarah Tatarski: And yeah, that's how it worked. It slows down the body. And I should mention that, if you're on antidepressants, they want you to continue to stay on those throughout the process. They don't want you to get off of it. And personally, I'm not on an antidepressant right now, but I still qualified because I had tried two different medications and it didn't help me. Alyssa Scolari: Okay. Sarah Tatarski: So, if you have tried two different anxiety medications or depression meds and it didn't work, you can qualify. So, that's why I qualified. But they want you to stay on your antidepressants. And the other thing about Spravato is that, they say, "We don't exactly know what it does. We just know it helps." And so, welcome to big pharma, guys. They don't exactly know what happened... Alyssa Scolari: Yeah, you know it helps. Sarah Tatarski: But they say, "Hey, it helps." So, I'm not complaining. But yeah, you have to be on or continue to remain on your antidepressants throughout the process. They don't want you to cold quit in the middle of ketamine. Alyssa Scolari: Okay, yeah, yeah. I would imagine there's also still so much research to be done about it because I do think it is newer. Sarah Tatarski: Yeah, Spravato was approved I believe in 2019. So, it's very new... Alyssa Scolari: Okay. Sarah Tatarski: ... compared to other drugs. Alyssa Scolari: Yup, very new. And a lot of studies have been on halt because of the pandemic. So, we're still learning. We're still learning. Now, I do have one final question for you, if you don't mind. And this is partially, a question that I have personally, but also a question I think a lot of other people will have. Alyssa Scolari: So, in going to different forms of therapy, right? It sounds like you have had good experiences, but I know that there are so many people out there who have tried alternative forms of therapy and have had bad experiences and places that are poorly run, places that do more harm than good. I know that have certainly, been the experience for myself and many others. What is some advice that you can give people who I think are just feeling down and out about the quality of mental healthcare that they've experienced? Sarah Tatarski: You have to go in with an open mind because these places are run by humans. I mean, like I said, at the first trauma center I went to, it was almost like a jail. And I left, thank God at 4:00 every day, I did not have to sleep there. And there is some stuff that would go down at night, for sure. Sarah Tatarski: Everybody in there has trauma and things happen. So, I think for me, none of the places I've been to, none of my therapists have been perfect. Perfection actually, doesn't even exist in the world. So, doesn't want to say that. But, I mean, of course, if there's abuse going on, if there's emotional abuse or physical abuse from the staff and staff, I'm not saying, "Oh, go in with an open mind," just ignore it. Alyssa Scolari: Right. Sarah Tatarski: But I just know that if you go in thinking that everything's going to be exactly right, everything's going to run smoothly at whatever care center you're at or whatever treatment you do, the reality is that, it won't. And you'll probably, be disappointed. I mean, there are definitely flaws at places that I've been to. Sarah Tatarski: The place I was just at, called Innova Grace. I have had tremendous healing from them. But there's things that could be worked on. Absolutely, could be worked on to make it an even better program. But there are some things I just had to let go because I knew that doing therapy at Innova Grace twice a week and getting EMDR and I was in Texas. So, I was away from my mom. I was away from my childhood home. I was so grateful to be there, and to be able to have that help, that there are some things, if it wasn't overly concerning that I just had to let go in the moment. Alyssa Scolari: Yeah. Sarah Tatarski: And I would complain, I would speak up if there's something that made me uncomfortable and there were things that did change. And sometimes, it didn't. But I also think another thing is, people might be disappointed in alternative treatments because you put in most of the work, if not all of it, therapists are there to guide you. Sarah Tatarski: And I think that's something, I was naive in believing when I was younger, even probably, like two years ago, not even that long where I thought, "Oh, why isn't this therapist fixing me? Why isn't she doing this? Why X, Y, Z and all this stuff?" I was like, "Therapy only works if you're as honest as you are. If you are, if you hold things from your therapist, you're not going to make any progress. If you keep rejecting the way that you behave and act and that how resistant you are to treatment, you're not going to get better. You can't blame the treatment center. You can't blame your therapist. Of course, again, some therapists suck. I just had a really, awful one from September to December. She told me... I said... Alyssa Scolari: Gosh. Sarah Tatarski: ... "I just, I feel like I can't go in public. And I feel like I can't do things by myself. And I'm just, I'm so upset. I don't know what's wrong with me." And she said, "Just do it." Alyssa Scolari: Oh, wow. That's great advice. Thank you, I never thought of that before. Sarah Tatarski: So, again, I just want to restate, there are people that are super problematic and there's abuse in some of these places, there are. And I'm not saying to go in and be like, "Oh, yeah, ignore it and disassociate from it," which is probably, how you coped this long. Don't do that. But it is run by humans and it is how much you contribute. Sarah Tatarski: Because like I told you, before we started recording, one of my therapists, I told her, I said, "I'm really open." And she called me out and she said, "No, you're not, you're not open." And I'm like, "I got so guarded, and I'm like, whatever." And then, I thought about it and I said, "She's right." And that's how we proceeded forward. I was able to really, work with that therapist and get through so many deep things because I was just completely, honest with her and I let myself cry. Sarah Tatarski: So, that's my advice, be open minded, just know the process isn't perfect. If there are major concerns, voice them. If things don't change, then maybe you need to try a different area, like a different place, a different therapist. And you have to contribute your full honesty and vulnerability to it, or else you will not heal. That's something that I wish I had known when I was 19, when I started the journey. Alyssa Scolari: That is incredible advice. All of it, I agree. I mean, you said it perfectly, you said it perfectly. And I want to thank you for coming on the show because this is something that's really, important to talk about. It's something that you spoke a lot of hard truths that people I think really need to hear, hey, including myself. We all need to hear a lot of this stuff and it's also very inspiring. Alyssa Scolari: And I think it certainly, has given me a lot of hope for the future and for my own recovery. And it's hope that we wouldn't have without your willingness to be vulnerable and come on here and talk about it. So, thank you so, so much. I know that I mentioned Sarah's Instagram in the beginning of this episode, which the name is? Can you give the name one more time? Sarah Tatarski: Vulnerable and Not Afraid. Alyssa Scolari: Vulnerable and Not Afraid. You know that will be in the show notes for today's episode. And I just want to say thank you again for coming on the show today. Sarah Tatarski: Yeah, it was so great talking to you, and I'm happy to answer any of the listeners questions if they directly message you or you can directly message me on my Instagram, I'm happy to do a call or send a voice memo, share resources. That's, I mean, the whole reason I started the Instagram, partly for myself to remind myself, "Hey, this is where I've been." And to help others realize that antidepressants and once a week therapy are not the only choices out there. Alyssa Scolari: Amen. Amen. Thank you so, so much, Sarah. Sarah Tatarski: Yeah, no problem. Alyssa Scolari: Thanks for listening, everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram, we are @lightaftertrauma. And on Twitter, it is @lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So, please head on over. Again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you. And we appreciate your support.