Reconstructing Inclusion Podcast

Reconstructing Inclusion S3E7: Designing Inclusion from the Inside Out with Dr. Jennifer Sarrett

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion!What if DEI was built the same way curb cuts were — designed for the most excluded and better for everyone as a result? In this episode, Amri Johnson sits down with Dr. Jennifer Sarrett, founder of Disruptive Inclusion, to explore why the inclusion field keeps falling short — and what a proactive, evidence-based alternative looks like.Dr. Jennifer Sarrett brings a rare combination of backgrounds: autism advocacy, bioethics, medical anthropology, and public health. Her methodology, Organizational Culture Design, draws from Universal Design principles to build workplaces where access and belonging are built in from the start — not bolted on after a crisis.🔥 Standout Quotes:“How can we predict where there might be barriers to somebody or a type of person? And go ahead and design to increase accessibility that will funnel down or trickle down to increase accessibility for everybody. Without making it more difficult for anybody.” [00:08:00]“The efforts often aren’t embedded. So they’re training programs, one-off things that aren’t really tracked internally or actually turned into action. The field of DEI isn’t very good at explaining to those in power how it works for them as well.” [00:28:00]In This Episode:[00:02:00] Introducing Dr. Jennifer Sarrett and her background[00:08:00] Universal Design — what it is and why DEI needs it[00:13:00] Reactive vs. proactive inclusion — where the field has gone wrong[00:20:00] Social determinants vs. identity-category thinking[00:28:00] What DEI got wrong about communicating to those in power[00:35:00] Why research has to come before solutionsAbout the GuestDr. Jen Sarrett is the founder of Disruptive Inclusion, an organizational culture strategy firm. With a PhD in Interdisciplinary Studies, her work bridges systems thinking, social science, and public health to solve complex people challenges. She also publishes Science of High Performance, a weekly newsletter on culture design in health and science.Website: disruptiveinclusion.comPersonal site: jennifersarrett.comLinkedIn: Jennifer Sarrett#Inclusion #DEI #Leadership #OrganizationalDesign #Diversity #Neurodivergence Let's Connect:https://inclusionwins.com/https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/➡️ Subscribe to Reconstructing Inclusion for more unfiltered conversations about the future of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/subscribe

Reconstructing Inclusion S3E6: Moving Beyond Legal Defenses to Build Capable Organizations

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion!In this solo episode, I break down why DEI didn't collapse because of courtroom battles or political backlash. It collapsed because the field stopped evolving. While we were busy seeking legal cover and worrying about what would hold up in court, something more consequential was happening inside organizations: sense-making was deteriorating, trust was thinning, and people increasingly felt replaceable.The question now isn't whether DEI was lawful. The question is whether we're willing to evolve the field or just repackage the last 40 years of work and call it progress.🔥 Standout Quotes:"It's not the Trump administration that took down DEI in its entirety. The Trump administration came when it was politically expedient and then basically threw gasoline on a fire that was already burning." [00:11:00]"Inclusion at its core is about sense-making. About making sense of the world, of each other, of our teams, of our organization. Understanding that the organization is all working in concert to create the conditions for everyone to do their best work and for the organization to fulfill on its mission." [00:17:00]Resources Mentioned:Reconstructing Inclusion by Amri JohnsonHow Equality Wins by Kenji Yoshino and David GlasgowLily Zheng’s “FAIR Framework”The Emergent Inclusion FrameworkIn This Episode:[00:02:00] The damage that's already been done[00:05:00] When sense-making declines[00:08:00] Why we asked compliance to do the work of culture and capability[00:11:00] Trump administration threw gasoline on a fire that was already burning[00:13:00] How disagreement became treated as risk rather than data[00:16:00] Introducing Emergent Inclusion[00:17:00] The four questions[00:22:00] When inclusion works...[00:23:00] The choice: defensible or functional?#Inclusion #DEI #Leadership #OrganizationalDevelopment #Diversity #TrumpLet's Connect:https://inclusionwins.com/https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/➡️ Subscribe to Reconstructing Inclusion for more unfiltered conversations about the future of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/subscribe

Reconstructing Inclusion S3E5: Designing for the Margins: Joy Elizabeth Buckner on Neurodivergence, Education, and Mattering

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion!Designing for the Margins: Why Neurodivergent Thinkers Need More Than AwarenessJoy Elizabeth Buckner is an educational consultant who's spent 13 years abroad working across 25+ countries to support neurodivergent learners. With dyslexia, Irlen Syndrome, and ADHD, she brings lived experience to her mission of building belonging for neurodivergent thinkers.We explore why educational systems are designed for the "middle," what happens when we build for the margins, and Joy's framework for moving beyond awareness to action: empowered, equipped, voiced, connected.Key Topics: Teaching to the middle, blind spots around neurodivergence, "penguining" and ADHD brilliance, why neurodivergent people need proof they matter, the cost of maskingTimestamps: [00:12:00] From categories to lived experience [00:15:30] Why we're still teaching the same way [00:20:30] Joy's four-pillar framework [00:28:30] Systems that fail neurodivergent children [00:34:30] Neurodivergent people need extra proof [00:37:00] "Penguining" and neurodivergent brillianceResources: "Shantaram" by Gregory David Roberts, The Joy of Neurodiversity Podcast, "Covering" by Kenji Yoshino20-30% of people are neurodivergent. When we design for the margins, everyone benefits.🔥 Standout Quotes:"If you were in my brain and you knew how hard I was trying in class, in school, in life—I was trying so hard just to try to feel normal. That's the thing that I hear again and again. We were lazy, we were defiant, we didn't try hard enough." [00:33:45]"Other people can tell you that you matter. Other people can tell you that you belong. Other people can tell you that you're valued. We need proof. Neurodivergent people need extra proof." [00:34:30]About Our Guest:Joy Buckner is an educational consultant, speaker, and host of "The Joy of Neurodiversity" podcast. She works with parents, teachers, and ministries of education to build belonging and show dignity to the brilliance of neurodivergent thinkers. Based in Dubai, she's worked across 25+ countries reshaping how we understand and support diverse minds.Let's Connect:https://inclusionwins.com/https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/➡️ Subscribe to Reconstructing Inclusion for more unfiltered conversations about the future of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/subscribe

Reconstructing Inclusion S3E4: Defining True Purpose in the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Work

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion!This is my last episode for 2025.If I could go back five years, what would I have changed? This solo episode is my honest accounting of where the diversity, equity, and inclusion field went wrong.The past five years transformed DEI. What started as meaningful change became performance art. Organizations treated inclusion as optics management: do just enough to deflect criticism. But it rarely touched fundamental structures.Now we're living with the consequences. The resistance has erupted. We may have contributed to the very resistance we were trying to overcome.🔥 Standout Quotes:"Instead of enrolling people in a conversation about what organizations structurally needed to change, there was a tremendous amount of energy talking about the structural problem of systemic racism." [00:05:00]"When we see statistical disparities and immediately conclude their evidence of discrimination, without examining all these other factors, we're committing this fallacy. Disparities don't equal discrimination." [00:11:00]Resources Mentioned:Social Justice Fallacies by Thomas SowellIn This Episode:[00:05:00] When optics replaced purpose[00:07:00] Active vs. passive opposition[00:11:00] The three fallacies affecting DEI work[00:16:00] The Richard Bilkszto tragedy[00:22:00] What inclusion work should actually be[00:24:00] Building durable skills[00:27:00] Why this moment holds promise#Inclusion #DEI #Leadership #OrganizationalDevelopment #DiversityLet's Connect:https://inclusionwins.com/https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/➡️ Subscribe to Reconstructing Inclusion for more unfiltered conversations about the future of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/subscribe

Reconstructing Inclusion S3E3: When Empathy Becomes Optional: A Conversation with Maaria Mozaffar

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion!When Empathy Becomes Optional: A Conversation with Maaria MozaffarWhen did empathy become something we can turn on and off? When did we start deciding which children deserve protection and which ones don't? These are the uncomfortable questions Maaria Mozaffar forces us to confront.🔥 Standout Quotes:"If you are watching that and you think it's just about legalities, should've known better, then I wanna know where your humanity is." [00:16:00]"I don't believe humans have the right to consider other humans less human... I will keep an eye on every interaction and not pass the buck." [00:34:00]"Watch your baby be crushed under buildings. We'll see if you're gonna look for someone to blame or you're gonna put on your backpack and say, let's lift this up." [00:35:00]About Our Guest:Maaria Mozaffar is an attorney, mediator, legislative drafter, and author of More Than Pretty: How to Live a Life of Substance in an Artificial World. For over 15 years, she's been writing human-first policies that center dignity and interconnectedness. In this conversation, she argues that we've turned off our empathy and made it optional instead of essential—and that we have the power to turn it back on.Resources Mentioned:The Fox and the Hound (animated film): A story about friendship, identity, and choosing humanity over what we’re conditioned to believe.More Than Pretty: How to Live a Life of Substance in an Artificial World by Maaria Mozaffar: A book about moving away from distractions and creating a life of substance and impact.In This Episode:- The three camps: happiness, helplessness, and hiding (and why none are serving us)- How ethnocentrism is driving immigration policy- Why we've made empathy optional and how to make it essential again- Why global education is essential for breaking through propaganda- How we've chosen to see some people as less deserving of dignity- The power of one voice and one micro decision- What it means to stop being an NPC in your own lifeLet's Connect:https://inclusionwins.com/https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/➡️ Subscribe to Reconstructing Inclusion for more unfiltered conversations about the future of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/subscribe