RevOps Lab

#113 How to Earn Your CFO’s Trust – with Stephen Diorio, Author of "Revenue Operations"

Stephen Diorio, author of "Revenue Operations" and a go-to-market strategy veteran with decades of experience — from co-founding one of the first GTM strategy firms in 1993 to serving as a Gartner analyst — joins Janis and Philipp to unpack the math of growth. Stephen explains why the financial systems behind most B2B organizations fundamentally fail to measure what actually drives revenue, and how RevOps can close the gap between what the business spends on growth and what it actually gets back.We cover:Why traditional accounting treats all go-to-market spend as expense — and why that's fundamentally wrongGrowth assets: databases, brands, digital channels, content — and why no one measures their valueThe bow tie model: what it captures, what it misses, and why the back end is where CFOs get scaredWhy a third of closed deals originate from actions taken 12–18 months earlierThe 25 post-booking variables that can double or halve lifetime customer valueWhy "cost to sell" has 100 definitions across 100 companies — and none are rightThe dark funnel and LLM search: why 90% of the buying process is invisibleForward-looking vs. backward-looking signals: product telemetry, adoption, and renewal predictionThe nine customer behavior changes that every growth investment ultimately drivesWhy documenting assumptions — not just measuring outcomes — is the key to continuous improvementTreatment models and customer experience: why no one can answer "what does a good CX cost?"Share of wallet and account penetration: the massive untapped opportunity most orgs can't quantifyStephen Diorio on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-diorio-1339011/Revenue Operations (Book): https://www.amazon.com/Revenue-Operations-Stephen-Diorio/dp/1119871115 Weflow: https://www.getweflow.com RevOps Chat Community: https://getweflow.com/community RevOps Letter: https://www.getweflow.com/revopsletter Janis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiszech Philipp on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philippstelzerChapters: (00:00:00) Introduction (00:00:32) Stephen's Background & Why He Wrote the RevOps Book (00:02:45) The Math of Growth: Why It's One Big Equation (00:03:25) Growth Assets: Brands, Data, Channels — and Why No One Values Them (00:05:10) Why Financial Accounting Fails Go-To-Market (00:07:10) Cost to Sell: 100 Companies, 100 Definitions (00:09:35) Walking Through the Bow Tie: Top of Funnel to Post-Sale (00:11:40) Why We Overplay Conversion Rates and Underplay the Dark Funnel (00:13:00) The Back End of the Bow Tie: Where CFOs Get Scared (00:15:10) Reliable Cash Flow as the North Star Metric (00:16:00) Account Penetration & Share of Wallet: The Untapped Opportunity (00:18:10) Treatment Models: What Does a Good Customer Experience Actually Cost? (00:20:05) Reliable vs. Accurate Revenue: Why Sandbagging Kills Forecasting (00:22:30) The Scientific Method: Document Assumptions, Then Test and Adjust (00:26:35) Dark Funnel, LLM Search & Why 90% of Buying Is Invisible (00:30:05) Forward-Looking Signals: Product Telemetry and Adoption Data (00:32:05) The Nine Customer Behavior Changes That Every Growth Investment Drives (00:35:25) Brand as an Asset: Touch Points, Awareness, and Future Option Value (00:37:05) Book Recommendation: The Goal by Eli Goldratt

#112 How Field Exposure Turns RevOps Strategic – with Franco Anzini, SVP of GTM Strategy & Operations at Provus

Franco Anzini, a seasoned revenue operations leader with experience across companies of all stages and go-to-market motions, joins Janis and Philipp to talk about a principle that doesn't show up on any dashboard: stay close to where the money changes hands. Franco shares why RevOps professionals need to step away from the data, get into the field, and understand the art behind the science — and how that context is what ultimately separates tactical operators from strategic leaders.We cover:What "stay close to where the money changes hands" means in practice for RevOpsWhy data alone doesn't tell the full story — and how field context fills the gapPractical ways to get into the field: joining sales calls, attending QBRs, shadowing repsWhy salespeople are almost always thrilled when RevOps wants to join their meetingsHow understanding the customer journey end-to-end makes RevOps more strategicThe churn example: when health scores looked great but customers still leftWhy the current market shift — from ZIRP to AI-first — demands even more field contextCareer pathing from RevOps to COO or CRO: why business context is the missing ingredientWhen to roll up your sleeves vs. when to step back: signals and time managementUsing conversation intelligence and transcripts as a complement — not a replacement — for field presenceWhy conferences are the fastest way to absorb dozens of live sales interactionsFranco Anzini on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/francoanzini Weflow: https://www.getweflow.com RevOps Chat Community: https://getweflow.com/community RevOps Letter: https://www.getweflow.com/revopsletter Janis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiszech Philipp on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philippstelzerChapters: (00:00:00) Introduction (00:00:35) Franco's Background in Revenue Operations (00:02:12) What "Stay Close to Where the Money Changes Hands" Means (00:05:40) Tactics for Getting Into the Field (00:09:00) Why RevOps Should Join Sales Calls — and Why Reps Love It (00:11:45) Understanding the Full Customer Journey as RevOps (00:14:00) Career Pathing: From RevOps to COO and CRO (00:15:55) Real Example: When Health Scores Lied About Churn (00:19:00) The Changing Market Context: ZIRP to AI-First Era (00:21:30) How Field Context Makes RevOps More Strategic (00:22:45) When to Roll Up Your Sleeves — and When Not To (00:25:20) Time Partitioning: SKOs, QBRs & Natural Touchpoints (00:26:50) Conversation Intelligence as a Complement to Field Presence (00:27:45) Fast Track: Join Salespeople at Conferences (00:28:45) Advice for Overwhelmed RevOps Teams (00:30:50) Book Recommendation: Legacy by James Kerr

#111 Build or Buy? How AI Changes the RevOps Tech Stack – with Navin Persaud, VP of RevOps at 1Password

In dieser Episode sprechen Janis und Philipp mit Navin Persaud, VP of Revenue Operations bei 1Password, über eine der aktuell meistdiskutierten Fragen im RevOps: Sollte man GTM-Tools im Zeitalter von AI kaufen oder selbst bauen? Navin bringt dabei die Perspektive aus fünf Jahren RevOps-Führung bei einem Security-Unternehmen mit über 400 Millionen US-Dollar Umsatz ein und ordnet sehr klar ein, wo AI heute echten Mehrwert schafft – und wo schnell gehypte, „vibe-coded“ Eigenbauten eher neue Risiken als echte Fortschritte erzeugen.Im Mittelpunkt steht die Frage, warum das RevOps-Team von 1Password konsequent auf Konfigurieren statt Customizing setzt und weshalb Eigenentwicklungen nur in ausgewählten Fällen sinnvoll sind. Navin erklärt, warum AI für ihn vor allem ein starkes Werkzeug für Prototyping, Tests und Experimente ist, aber kein Ersatz für tragende Kernsysteme. Außerdem geht es darum, wie AI helfen kann, Daten und Erkenntnisse im gesamten Go-to-Market-Team zu demokratisieren, statt Wissen nur in Spezialfunktionen zu konzentrieren.Ein weiterer Schwerpunkt der Folge liegt auf den aus seiner Sicht wichtigsten AI-Anwendungsfällen im RevOps: agentische Suche, Datenanreicherung und Natural-Language-Queries. Navin beschreibt außerdem, warum gerade unstrukturierte Daten wie E-Mails, Gesprächsnotizen, Call-Transkripte und Deal Notes zu den größten ungenutzten Ressourcen im GTM gehören – und warum eine gute Datenvereinheitlichung die Basis dafür ist, dass AI in der Praxis überhaupt sinnvoll arbeiten kann.Darüber hinaus sprechen die drei über das Orchestrierungs-Mindset: RevOps sollte sich nicht als Werkzeugbauer verstehen, sondern eher als Dirigent eines Tech-Stacks, der vorhandene Systeme intelligent zusammenführt. Auch die Debatte rund um die sogenannte „SaaSpocalypse“ wird aufgegriffen – also die Frage, was AI gerade mit SaaS-Bewertungen macht und warum vor allem Unternehmen gefährdet sind, die nur auf einzelne Features statt auf echte Plattform- oder Orchestrierungsvorteile setzen.Zusätzlich geht es um die Risiken von Build-it-yourself-Ansätzen in größeren Unternehmen, insbesondere mit Blick auf Compliance, Governance und Security. Navin erklärt, warum mehrschichtige Datenanreicherungs-Stacks mit vielen einzelnen Providern langfristig kaum tragfähig sind und weshalb Signal Stacking sowie eine starke Orchestrierungsebene am Ende zu einem echten strategischen Vorteil werden können. Zum Schluss teilt er mit „Crawl, Walk, Run“ einen pragmatischen Rahmen, wie RevOps-Teams AI schrittweise und sinnvoll einführen können.Eine starke Folge für alle, die AI im Revenue-Umfeld nicht nur als Buzzword sehen wollen, sondern verstehen möchten, wo AI im GTM heute wirklich skaliert, wo Grenzen liegen und wie moderne RevOps-Teams sinnvoll zwischen Kaufen, Konfigurieren und Bauen unterscheiden.Links:Navin Persaud auf LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/navinpersaud/Weflow: https://www.getweflow.comRevOps Chat Community: https://getweflow.com/communityRevOps Letter: https://www.getweflow.com/revopsletterJanis auf LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiszechPhilipp auf LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philippstelzerKapitel:00:00:00 – Introduction00:00:38 – Navin's Background: From IBM Sales to VP of RevOps00:02:06 – Buy vs. Build: The LinkedIn Hype vs. Reality00:04:27 – AI for Prototyping, Not Replacing Core Systems00:08:10 – Harvesting Unstructured Data for Go-To-Market Insights00:09:05 – Data Unification as the Foundation for AI00:11:35 – The Orchestration Mindset: Conductor, Not Carpenter00:14:25 – AI as the Glue for Your Go-To-Market Tech Stack00:15:15 – When Building Makes Sense: Early Stage vs. Scale00:17:55 – Top AI Use Cases: Agentic Search, Enrichment & Insight Democratization00:19:30 – The SaaSpocalypse: Feature Companies at Risk00:21:05 – The Data Enrichment Consolidation Problem00:24:00 – Crawl, Walk, Run: Practical AI Adoption Advice00:27:30 – Book Recommendation & Wrap-Up

#110 The C-Suite Alignment Problem (+ How RevOps Can Fix It) – with Ross Graber, VP & Principal Analyst at Forrester

Ross Graber, VP and Principal Analyst at Forrester, joins Philipp to unpack findings from Forrester's latest C-suite alignment study. Based on feedback from over 130 C-level marketing, sales, and customer leaders, the study reveals how alignment — or the lack of it — directly impacts customer value, resource efficiency, and revenue performance. Together, they explore why C-suite leaders feel aligned while their operational teams often aren't, and what RevOps can do to close that gap.We cover:Key findings from Forrester's C-suite alignment study across 130+ leadersWhy aligned organizations grow faster — and why customers feel misalignment firstThe two biggest alignment blockers: unstable corporate strategy and cultural obstaclesWhy C-suite leaders feel aligned but operational teams often aren'tHow misaligned incentives between marketing and sales create friction at the team levelThe resource cost of misalignment: why 1+1 can equal 0.5 when teams pull in different directionsAnnual planning pitfalls and why adaptive planning structures matterHow RevOps can use data and neutrality to drive cross-functional alignmentThe buyer journey perspective: why internal process shouldn't override buyer needsA practical tip: walk through your own company's buyer journey to find what's brokenRoss Graber on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rgraber/Weflow: https://www.getweflow.com RevOps Chat Community: https://getweflow.com/community RevOps Letter: https://www.getweflow.com/revopsletter Janis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiszech Philipp on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philippstelzerChapters:(00:00:00) Introduction(00:00:55) Ross's Role at Forrester & the Alignment Study(00:03:10) Key Finding: Alignment Drives Customer Value First(00:07:25) Top Alignment Blockers: Strategy & Culture(00:10:40) Annual Planning & Why Plans Break Under Pressure(00:12:00) C-Suite Feels Aligned — But Operational Teams Don't(00:14:05) Misaligned Incentives Between Marketing & Sales(00:17:05) Translating C-Suite Alignment to Operational Execution(00:19:45) Internal Ripple Effects: Trust, Turnover & Turf Wars(00:22:00) RevOps as the Neutral Party: Leading with Data(00:23:15) The Resource Cost of Misalignment(00:26:15) Why Buyer-Centric Processes Beat Internal Efficiency(00:29:30) Practical Tip: Walk Your Own Buyer Journey(00:30:15) Closing: RevOps' Unique Position to Drive Alignment

#109 Making RevOps an AI Orchestration Layer – with Alexander Müller, Founder at Revenue Enablement

Alexander Müller, Founder of Revenue Enablement and one of Germany's most recognized RevOps voices, joins Philipp for his second appearance on the RevOps Lab — over 100 episodes after being the very first guest on the show. Together, they jam on the AI use cases that are reshaping go-to-market execution right now and what that means for how RevOps teams should be built going forward.We cover: How AI use cases in RevOps have evolved — from Clay-era enrichment to agent orchestration Top-of-funnel automation: what's working, what's overhyped, and why calling still wins Why RevOps is the best-positioned team to own AI agents across the GTM org The rise of the go-to-market engineer role and where it fits within RevOps Mid-funnel and post-sale AI use cases: meeting prep, CRM automation, churn signals, and expansion Why data quality and CRM hygiene remain the foundation for any AI strategy The concept of "forward-deployed RevOps" and why it's becoming critical How RevOps team composition is changing: hiring generalists and tool-savvy specialists earlier Why smaller companies now build RevOps teams almost as large as enterprise orgs An XAI job ad that signals where RevOps responsibilities are headingAlexander Müller on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-p-mueller/Weflow: https://www.getweflow.comRevOps Chat Community: https://getweflow.com/communityRevOps Letter: https://www.getweflow.com/revopsletterJanis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiszechPhilipp on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philippstelzerChapters: (00:00:00) Introduction & Welcome Back (00:01:30) Alex's Background: From Banking to €1B AI Exit (00:03:55) AI Use Cases Across the GTM Funnel (00:10:15) Top-of-Funnel: Automating Outbound & Why Calling Still Wins (00:14:00) Human in the Loop: Where AI Hits Its Limits (00:17:00) The Rise of the Go-To-Market Engineer Role (00:19:50) RevOps as the Owner of AI Agents (00:21:45) Mid-Funnel AI: CRM Automation, Meeting Prep & Data Capture (00:24:00) Data Enrichment Workflows That Every Team Can Start Today (00:26:30) Why Data Quality Is Still the #1 Blocker (00:28:00) Forward-Deployed RevOps & the Future of Implementation (00:29:30) Building a RevOps Team Today: New Skill Sets & Roles (00:33:40) Advice for Stressed RevOps Teams (00:34:30) Book Recommendation & Wrap-Up