Get Rich Education

565: The Tax Trap Hiding in Your Home Sale, Life's Too Short to Be Cheap

Keith discusses strategies to avoid capital gains tax on primary residences, highlighting the potential impact of the "No Tax on Home Sales Act" proposed by Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene.  He explains the current tax exemption thresholds of $250,000 for singles and $500,000 for married couples, noting that 34% of homeowners could exceed the single filer threshold.  Keith also explores the rise of small investors in the housing market, representing 30% of purchases, and the potential of peer-to-peer storage and parking platforms to generate income from underutilized property.  And concludes with a critique of government dependency through Section 8 housing. Resources: You can see the video footage of that section 8 clip here. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/565 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai    Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, when you sell your primary residence, you need to pay capital gains tax. Learn how to avoid it, then how to increase your rental income with new peer to peer platforms. And finally, a perspective on capitalism and collectivism, with Section Eight housing today on get rich education.    Speaker 1  0:27   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Speaker 1  1:12   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:28   Welcome to GRE from st, Joseph, Missouri to st, Albans, Queens in New York City and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith weinholden. You and I are back together here for another wealth building week. This is get rich education, the Treasury and the Fed keep conspiring to print dollars like crazy, create currency, debasing every single dollar that you're currently holding onto. They are stealing your purchasing power, stealing the value of your work and your grit. It makes dollars pretty fake, since they can just be conjured out of thin air, therefore your job is to convert fake dollars into real assets. That's what you need to do, and this is a strategy that dominates. Like Sydney Sweeney, they print more money, causing inflation, so you have to invest in assets, but then they put a capital gains tax on those assets so that most people never escape inflation. But of course, as real estate investors, we have a strategy to avoid capital gains taxes. Well, I'll talk about that more later.   Keith Weinhold  2:46   I mentioned to you on an earlier episode that I recently attended my high school class reunion in Pennsylvania. It was just a few weeks ago, out in a rural area with a lodge and trees and grass and inflation came up in a conversation between me and a few classmates that was some time before we played cornhole in badminton. I talked about how I sort of enjoy spending money. One classmate replied that he is cheap. I don't really directly respond to something like that, but my preeminent thought when someone says that they're cheap is that life is too short to be cheap. There is a way to guarantee an improvement to your quality of life and your standard of living, and that is spending it can do exactly that invest Well, first, that's an antecedent, and then you can spend now, in the short run, when you're young, living below your means that can make some sense, until you've accumulated some Capital, sure, but when you're age 30 to 35 plus, like my classmates and I are Sheesh, you've got to have yourself figured out better by then than to still be cheap make your quality of life exceed your cost of living, because at least here on Earth, this is your last life ever the risk of too much delayed gratification is denied gratification. So be more frugal with your time than your money. And a lot of people point to external circumstances for their circumstances. Most people wait for the economy to change, not realizing that your mindset is the economy that you live in with each property that you own, you just created another small economy that you are in control of. You are at the top of it. Yeah, you created. Another small economy, the actors in it are you, your tenant, your lender, your property manager, your contractors, your utility companies and more, and you control it all. Most people think wealth is created from high salaries, and they go their entire life, therefore chasing the wrong thing, thinking that wealth is created by high salaries all along it squarely is not you get wealthy by owning things, and you certainly won't get wealthy by being cheap. Now, when it comes to owning things, the government taxes you when you profit on those things during your ownership period of them at sale time through the capital gains tax. And of course, we've talked about the specifics in how real estate investors can completely duck out of that with the 1031 tax deferred exchange. But what about homeowners, primary residence owners, they often have to pay it well. President Trump and Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene recently suggested either removing this tax or reforming it. Now this would require congressional approval, but most members of Congress own their home, so they could very well be in favor of it. And green introduced what is simply called the no tax on home sales act.    Keith Weinhold  6:29   Let's discuss how this can affect you, especially if you're a homeowner, or even if you don't own a home under the current law, which has been in place since 1997 on a primary residence, your first 250k of profit is sheltered from tax if you're single, the first 500k is sheltered if you're married. This is called the primary residence capital gains tax exemption or exclusion. Let's use an example. Say you bought a home years ago for 500k you're married and you sell the home for $1.3 million that's an 800k gain, alright? Since the first 500k is sheltered from capital gains tax, you would therefore have to pay the tax on just 300k on all but the lowest earners, your capital gains tax is 15 to 20% so this means if you sell this home on that 300k of profit, you'd have to pay a tax bill of between $45k and $60k and you might not be done there. You could also be subject to a net investment income tax of 3.8% on top of that, you cannot duck out of this because the 1031 exchange that's only for investment property, not primary residences, like we're talking about today, with home prices on the rise so much over the last five years, how many people exactly could be subject to this tax? 34% of homeowners could exceed the single filer threshold, and 10% could exceed the married filer threshold. Another way to say this is that only about 10% of US homes have more than 500k of equity in them, and it's the homeowners in high cost states that are most likely to be impacted here, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, California and Hawaii, states like that. So therefore this tax it acts as a deterrent to people selling their homes. Now, what about, say, an elderly person with a really modest income that bought a home in Los Angeles for $30,000 back in 1970 and now it's worth $15 million well, they actually would not get caught in this net, because, like I said, for those with lower incomes, and it's below about 47k for single or 94k married, the capital gains tax rate is zero. For most of you listening again, it's going to be 15 to 20% one reason for the President and others wanting to cancel the capital gains tax on primary residences like this is to get the housing market moving again and get more homes available for sale on the market. Now these 250k and 500k thresholds, they have not moved since 1997 almost 30 years here, they haven't been adjusted for inflation and the median home sales price, it's jumped about 190% in that time it was 145k back in 1997 it's 435k today. So is. Home prices appreciate, more and more people will get caught up in paying the capital gains tax if your home value goes up by 10k That's another 10k that's subject to this 15 to 20% Capital Gains Tax, with that erstwhile possible net investment income tax on top of that. Well, what can you do about this growing capital gains tax obligation that you'll have that a lot of homeowners aren't even aware of? Well, even fewer realize that it is possible to reduce your home sales profit by adding capital improvements. That means making home renovations to the original purchase price. So therefore that home kitchen renovation that you were thinking about doing, well that might not be as costly as you think, if it reduces your capital gains tax at sale time to reset what we're talking about here, it's been proposed that the capital gains tax be removed when you sell your primary residence. Usually, we discuss tax on investment properties here, but this is a significant proposal, and whether it happens or not, it helps you understand the housing market and how to limit your personal tax hit now see if the tax were removed, it could be costly, because it would decrease the government's tax revenue, of course. So in my opinion, what I think is really going to happen here, a more likely course of action would be that instead of eliminating this tax they would just move up the threshold, say, from 250 and 500k up to 500k and $1 million another angle to keep in mind is that relaxing the tax that helps out wealthy people more than it helps the poor. Now, house flippers want to pay particular attention to what happens here, for instance, simply eliminating capital gains tax on house sales that could benefit those who buy and flip homes for profit. If policymakers want to benefit only homeowners, then they need to parse that out. Otherwise, this would be a huge boon to eliminating the capital gains tax on House flippers an absolute godsend, a windfall. In any case, relaxing the tax would mean that homeowners who move they would therefore retain more capital to reinvest in their next property, which you could use to outbid others. What does that do that would drive up home prices even more. I mean talking about the capital gains tax on primary residences, its proposal to be removed and what this would do to the housing market.    Keith Weinhold  12:50   Before I tell you about an interesting real estate investing niche and trend, let's pull back and look at the national housing market. The NAR recently let us know that national home prices hit yet another all time high. The median existing home price reached a record high of $435,300 and that is a 2% increase compared to last year. At this time, it's also the 24th consecutive month of year over year price increases. And you know, it's funny, I recently talked to an investor based in Phoenix that also does a little investing in Las Vegas. She thought that national home prices were falling because she sees a little price flattening in her home area, which is a little overbuilt. Well, prices are up as much as 10% in some areas of the Northeast and Midwest, because those areas are substantially underbuilt. I mean, for some perspective here just one metro area, New York City, one city with its population of over 20 million people, has twice as many people as both Arizona at 7 million and Nevada at just 3 million combined. One city twice as much as two entire states combined with all their cities. So it's remarkable how little perspective some people have see my geography degree holder perspective strikes once more again, national existing home prices are up 2% year over year, nominally, pretty modest growth, not that exciting. And who is doing the buying of these homes supporting and driving up prices. Well fewer and through of them are first time home buyers due to the well documented affordability strain. More and more of them are investors. Just last week, the Wall Street Journal reported that investors are responsible for fully 30% of the purchases of. Of both existing homes and new construction homes this year, and this is the highest share since property analytics firm kotality started tracking it 14 years ago. Investors are really buying today, and what kind of investors? Interestingly, it is people just like you. The Wall Street Journal went on to report that smaller investors who own fewer than 100 homes are doing most of the buying. That's a big change from when massive private equity firms like Blackstone and Starwood Capital Group dominated the market. So this 30% of single family home purchases being made by investors today. Smaller investors are 25% and larger ones only accounted for 5% so yeah, the little guys, people like you, they can take bigger risks because they don't have boards and shareholders to answer to, and plus builders with too much inventory are offering them discounts that were once reserved only for the bigger fish. They're being passed on now to smaller investors like you. That's exactly what the journal went on to say, much like we discussed on the show here last week, where builders are giving massive discounts.    Keith Weinhold  16:22   Well, you probably heard it said that Airbnb doesn't own any real estate. Uber doesn't own any cars. Facebook doesn't own any content, and Tiktok has no original videos. Yet, they all dominate their industries. Well, when you own the real estate, you can make the rules and leverage some of these connector platforms to help you rent out space that you own and increase your income. Do you own any property that's sitting vacant with nothing going on on the lot, perhaps even overgrown with weeds and shrubs. You can use an app like neighbor that helps you rent them out as parking spaces. Neighbor.com customers request your space, and you can approve it. They can park their cars on your space or RVs, boats, boats, trailers. This can be especially lucrative if you're a few miles from an airport, and then there are platforms that let you leverage them, sort of like the Airbnb of storage. Roughly one out of every nine Americans is renting a self storage unit, and that's not even counting all the people searching for a spot to park an extra car, boat or RV. At the same time, there are millions of garages, basements, attics, driveways and backyards sitting underutilized across the country now, platforms like store at my house, Pure Storage and park for share, that one is spelled Park, the number four and share, they're all stepping up to connect people who have extra space with the people that need it. And the result is that renters can typically save 50% or more compared to them using traditional storage companies they can rent from you, and it's often more convenient for renters, since the space they're renting that might be just around the corner instead of across town. Neighbor.com is one of the biggest players in this space, though, its founder, his name's Joseph Woodbury. He says you'd be amazed at what people will pay to store something if the location is good and the price is right, they have had a tiny three foot by five foot closet in Manhattan that rented out in a snap, almost instantly in Woodbury. He even uses the platform himself, leasing part of his own driveway to someone with a camper. Now, you probably want to check with your HOA before you do something like that. But like Airbnb neighbor, they earn money by taking a cut of the host's revenue. But unlike Airbnb neighbor, hosts average just 16 minutes per month managing their listings now Woodbury, the neighbor.com owner, he calls it the most efficient, least time intensive form of passive income in America. And the peer to peer storage trend, that's become a great entry point for new investors, especially those that aren't ready to buy a full property. But it's also catching the eye of experience real estate investors who want to squeeze more cash flow out of the land that you already own. Some are turning unused sheds into rentable storage units. Others are converting open acreage into long term parking. I know someone that's hosting campers and. RVs on his 10 acres in Florida, and he expects to earn about $100,000 this year alone from that land. And they say it's mostly hands off. And now, whenever he buys he looks for acreage plus a home so that he can generate multiple income streams from one property. Well, can this peer storage and parking shake up the $500 billion self storage and parking industry the same way that Airbnb rattled the hotel world? Some think the potential is huge, with national occupancy rates for storage centers hovering around 93% there really is not any sign that the market is oversupplied. In fact, even public storage, that's the company name, public storage, they are the country's largest self storage space operator, even they use neighbor to help lease out their leftover inventory, and so do some REITs that have extra space at their office, retail or apartment properties. And as far as the types of listings, people are getting creative on these platforms. They're monetizing everything from empty barns to church parking lots. Think about how much of the week church parking lots sit vacant to vacant strip mall storefronts, and they're using that as parking so more and more people are realizing that there's hidden value in the real estate that they already own, and you can too. If you own the real estate, you make the rules. So check out those four platforms that I mentioned, if you think it can benefit you to increase the income at your properties in this growing peer to peer storage and parking industry. It was around 2010 when Airbnb really started to take off and really take market share away from hotels, and today, these platforms like neighbor store at my house, peer storage and park for share, are taking market share away from traditional, centralized self storage spaces to review what you've learned so far today, if you're going to Live life full time, you can't be perpetually cheap. Be aware of the primary residence capital gains tax and its elimination proposal. Small investor interest is growing now, making up fully 30% of today's home purchases, and grow your income with Pure Storage and parking platforms coming up next, a viral audio clip that borders on the unbelievable and gives you a new perspective on capitalism, collectivism and Section Eight housing, you'll be flabbergasted. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 565, of get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  23:00   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056,they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com. That's Ridge lendinggroup.com.    Keith Weinhold  23:32   You know what's crazy? Your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading, it's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back. No weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family 266, 866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund again. Text family to 66866.   Kathy Fettke  24:42   you this is the real wealth network's Kathy betke, and you are listening to the always valuable get rich education with Keith Weinhold.   Keith Weinhold  25:00   Keith, you are back inside one of America's longest running and most listened to real estate investing shows. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education, the voice of real estate investing. Since 2014 wealthy people's money either starts out or ends up in real estate, we tell you why and show you how. I've got a clip to share with you that gets a little wild. We usually share what I suppose is more cerebral content here, but some real perspective can be gleaned from listening to this. This kid wants to work his mom says, No, you can't, because she'd lose her section eight housing benefit. And apparently, free housing is more valuable than his future. This is about one minute in length,   Unknown Speaker  25:52   not getting no job. If you go get a job, they're going to take my section eight, then you won't be able to get no section eight. You're not going to get no job. They're gonna count your income against my section eight and my link card. You're not working, no. So I don't care what you gotta say. I don't care how you feel. You're not working, you're not going to get a job, you you're not going to school, you're not doing none of that like Ma. I'm saying how I'm supposed to be successful in life, huh? So you basically telling me I gotta I gotta be broke to be successful. I got to be broke so I can get section eight. Government can help you. So the government can help me. So you telling me I can't work, no job, bro. Like, that's like, all my friends got jobs and live and nice houses. So you telling me I got the I got to go through the same thing you went through if you have a house, any of that, they're going to take my section eight. How? What they be like,no, they will look at that and be like, he's doing something. And give me a bigger house. Ma, that's what you told me. I can get off your section eight and apply for my own section eight. Okay, but if you do that, you're gonna have to go the hard way. It's gonna take a long so what? That's what I'm saying. Get on Section Eight. Find you a nice apartment, go get you a link card. You will be fine. You don't have to sit up and work. You don't have to work, no job, if the government is here to help us.   Keith Weinhold  27:11   Gosh, this mom won't let her son work, or else she'll lose their government section eight housing benefit, where taxpayers pay for most of their housing. And by the way, is this real? Is this a rage bait skit? I can't quite tell, but it surfaces some interesting questions. For sure, it is true that section eight housing voucher recipients like her can lose their benefits if the household earns more and exceeds a certain threshold. Gosh, here's the youth that wants to do something and maybe be better and have more than his parents. You should want what's best for your child? Some parents have to beg their children to get a job. This kid is willing to go out and see what he's capable of doing. This eaglet is looking to leave the nest, and you're clipping his wings, and yes, you the listener, are the one paying for their housing. There's no such thing as a free government program, because taxpayers like you and I fund the government section eight housing is therefore tax payer funded at one point. The mom says the government is here to help us. Yeah, this woman is making you poorer. This is where the taxes that get knocked out of your paycheck are going. You're working at a job, spending less time with the people you love, and maybe doing fewer of the activities you love so that she can perpetuate a culture of laziness and government dependency. Another successful entrepreneur or employee is not making you poorer, this woman is making you poorer. Thomas Sowell said it best. He is an author and a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. He's got a lot of brilliant thoughts. Soul famously said, I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned, but not greed to want to take somebody else's money. That's Thomas Sowell. Now it's possible that this woman couldn't get a job that would pay so much more than the section eight income ceiling that it would be worth her getting one. She said there that she doesn't have a job at all. Maybe she has a disability, but there's a video of this. You can see the video. She doesn't appear to be disabled, but the appalling part is that she's discouraging her son from working now. Understand some section eight tenants do work full time jobs, but they're almost certainly going to be really low paying like, say, washing dishes for a restaurant. Section Eight is supposed to be a temporary program. It's supposed to be helpful, not a hindrance. It is a federal program. It's administered by HUD, and it pays the rent money for low income people, allowing them to rent housing out in the private open market. The program has high demand and some long, long waiting lists. They can be years long, even a decade long, waiting list for Section Eight housing some housing authorities even close their wait lists entirely due to the length the overwhelming demand and understand as well, veterans and the elderly are probably on a wait list, waiting for substantially younger people like her to get off the program to qualify for Section Eight, most families need an income below 50% of the area's median income, and your criminal background check has got to be clear, so you don't need to pass some high bar to get into the program. Now, in reality, a large share of the benefit recipients have an income that's under 30% of an area's median and how much of your rent does section eight pay? Participants typically pay a portion of their monthly income toward rent, usually around 30% they pay around 30% where section eight pays 70% I once run into a section eight tenant, and the tenant paid closer to 20% while the program paid 80% for you. And by the way, landlords don't have to accept section eight tenants. It is voluntary, and it pays landlords about the market rate in hot housing markets with fast rising rents. Well, you probably don't want to accept section eight because a regular, unsubsidized tenant is often going to pay you more in a slow rental market, Section Eight is better for landlords. Now, some landlords like section eight because it is guaranteed rent income, but some don't like it because they say they get low quality tenants. Well, foreign landlord can rent to a section eight tenant, a person called a case manager inspects the unit, and I think I shared with you before that, the first one that inspected mine, they wrote me up because they said that one of my Windows didn't open all the way. I fixed it, and the tenant stayed two years before they moved. But the average duration of time that a tenant spends in the program is six to nine years. It is supposed to be a short term bridge, but often becomes a long term subsidy people get dependent on the handout. HUD tells us that only one in seven families leave the program due to increased income, and there is a strong stigma around section eight housing, for sure. Who knows? To shake the stigma, maybe they will just change the name of the program. That happens sometimes, sort of like how they changed the name of the food stamps program to snap. And by the way, the link card that she mentioned in the video that is for food assistance. That's actually the name of the snap card in the state of Illinois. Oh, dear God bless America, training her kids to live off the government. I almost feel trashy after thinking about this. I'm probably going to go shower next now. Should the minimum wage be high enough that everyone can afford at least a one bedroom apartment, and therefore people wouldn't need section eight? Well, the federal minimum wage is $7.25 it's been stuck there since 2009 the economic commentator Peter Schiff, who I had lunch with a couple times last month, he and his wife Peter, makes the case that there should be no minimum wage at all. That is government intervention in the free market. If you make the minimum wage too high, people get laid off and people get replaced by robots. That's just what's really happened in practice, if a person can only make the minimum wage, they need to get better, and they need to skill up, is what Peter contends. Now, when I graduated college, I would have thought that premise sounded ridiculous. No minimum wage. But the more I think about it and the more I experience life, it does begin to make more sense. The fresh post collegiate me would have said that, ah, a working human being, they deserve the dignity of a minimum wage. That's livable, but some time and perspective has me saying that you are the one that brings dignity to your work, your earning potential and your life. It's not up to someone else to provide you with dignity. You don't lean on the government for your dignity. Learn more, be better, skill up. You'll be dignified, and you're going to earn multiples more than minimum wage. When it comes to the section eight, mom, everyone would like to live at the expense of the state, but few realize that the state lives at the expense of everyone else. If you'd like to see the video footage of that section eight clip that I played and more of my commentary on it. It's pretty interesting that should be available on our YouTube channel now. The channel name is get rich education. What else would it be for the production team here at GRE? That's our sound engineer, Vedran Dzampo , who has edited every single GRE episode since 2014,  QC and show notes. Brenda Almendadadas, video lead, Binaya Gyawali video strategy lead, Talha Mughal, video editor, Sorosa KC and producer me, we'll run it back next week for you. If you'd like the show, please tell a friend about it. I'd really appreciate you sharing it until then, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.    36:29   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice if the means of guests are their own information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  36:53   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access, and it's got paywalls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers, it's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read. And when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate. Video, course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream. Letter, it wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text gre 266, 866. While it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text, gre 266, 866,   Keith Weinhold  38:08   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com.  

564: The Real Estate "Crisis" That's Actually a Gift: 5% Mortgage Rates

Keith discusses the impact of inflation and interest rates on real estate investing, emphasizing passive income strategies.  He highlights the Florida housing market, noting a 26% increase in listings post-pandemic.  Investor and Florida homebuilder, Jim, joins this episode to explain the overbuilding in the emotional market versus the underbuilt workforce housing.  His company focuses on new construction in areas like Ocala, offering 40-year loans with 5.25% fixed rates, and boasting an average tenancy duration of over three years. They also provide two years of free property management and a 10-year builder warranty. Resources: Schedule a free strategy session with a GRE Investment Coach to evaluate the opportunity at GREinvestmentcoach.com Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/564 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai    Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, what control do you have over inflation and interest rates? Then, with the Florida housing oversupply and resultant attrition and price levels, wouldn't it be interesting to talk to a prominent Florida homebuilder? That's just what we do today on get rich education.   Speaker 1  0:27   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads in 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Speaker 2  1:12   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:28   Welcome to GRE from coral, Illinois to Cape Coral, Florida and across 180 nations worldwide. I'm Keith weinholden. You are inside for another wealth building week. This is get rich education, the voice of real estate investing since 2014 with inflation on the upswing and is currently approaching 3% again, the formula is small. Down payment. Bank buys you the house. Tenants pay down the loan. Property Manager handles nearly everything. You collect cash every month. Inflation builds you massive wealth, and that's real estate, all right. And no one really knows what's going to happen with inflation and interest rates, those two positively correlated indicators, but at times we have an illustrious guest that will make a prediction. And GRE episode 224, from January of 2019 has been getting some attention lately. That's back when interest rates of all types were really low, and when I interviewed legendary investor Jim Rogers in Singapore, listen in to what he told you, and I on that episode, then   Speaker 3  2:49   you ask me, we're now headed up again, and interest rates are going to go go much, much, much higher over the next few decades, and it's going to ruin a lot of people. I hope none of your listeners get ruined. I hope I don't get ruined, but rising interest rates are here for a long time. Keith, be worried. Be careful.   Keith Weinhold  3:08   Yeah, some real Jim Rogers prescience there in Episode 224 he has seen some cycles. Now as investors, we've got regional phenomena and national phenomenon mortgage rates. They're a national one, because more or less, whenever you finance property anywhere in the nation, your rate is going to be the same nationwide. Perhaps you feel then like you don't have any control over your mortgage rate. Well, I've got two points to that. First, understand that today, mortgage spreads are almost back to normal. Now, what does that mean? Mortgage spreads from listening to the show, you probably know that the mortgage rate you pay is dictated more on the level of bond yields than it is the Fed funds rate that your own Powell controls. Well, 30 year mortgage rates are historically almost 2% above the bond yield, meaning they're 2% above the yield on the 10 year T note, okay, that's the bond yield. The spread was recently above 3% now it is down to about two and a half. To be clear, mortgage rates are now just about two and a half percent above bond yields in this narrowing, that means there's more investor confidence in the mortgage market, and that suggests that lenders are willing to offer loans at competitive rates without succumbing to volatility. So lenders are less concerned about the risk of you quickly refinancing out of the loan that they just worked to make for you, the translation is that this opens the door to make it easier for mortgage rates to fall to 6% and they've been nearly seven for a while. Though I don't predict rates. I'm speaking about probabilities here. Now some people want to lock up property before rates fall, because when rates fall, many think home prices will surge because more people can afford property than higher demand. And I think we all know that the conventional wisdom is to lock in your price now and then if rates fall, you refinance. Conversely, if rates go higher, well then you'll be glad you bought today when rates were lower. But today we're talking about how you can really control the mortgage rate you pay when you work with a builder that won't only see that your mortgage rate gets bought down, they'll ensure that they are the ones paying for the pie down, not you. That's key, as we talked to a home builder in Florida today, a state that makes headlines for being overbuilt, it's a case study in how a market gets to an overbuilt condition, or does it really get overbuilt? It depends on this segment of the real estate market that you're focused on as an investor, as you'll see today, let's meet this week's guest.    Keith Weinhold  6:05   I'd like to welcome Jim onto the show today. He's one of the founding partners of a prominent Florida home builder. They built over 9000 residences, and they have 120 plus full time employees, and it's been such an interesting time in Florida home building and the real estate market, so that's why we're chatting today. Hey Jim, welcome onto the show. Keith, great to be back. Thanks for having me. Let's talk about the problem statewide. Florida has about 26% more listings, more available housing inventory, as compared to pre pandemic levels. That's created some problems, some price attrition. Talk about, why did Florida get over built? Or are they not truly overbuilt when we segment that by product type.   Jim Sheils  7:02   Well, like you said, Keith, product type is really important to decipher here, because it does help dissect the problem a little more clearly. There's a lot of different markets happening, but two of the main things that I've seen that have caused the softening of certain segments of the market is one insurance if you are buying a 1957 home in southwest Florida, a few blocks from the beach, it is possible that your insurance has gone up four to five times. Yeah, the annual thing. So that is going to really start to shake people who own those properties. They're going to feel a little triggered to sell, and it's going to be more difficult to sell, because if you have an agent go and show that property and they ask for a good faith estimate from a lender, and they say, Well, what's your current insurance? That can really scare people. So that type of property normally properties older before 2004 when the rules changed, with higher insurance, that can change it. The second thing is, the emotional market always seems to take a hit, Keith, and I've heard you talk about this before. Now, the emotional market that I talk about is we have our median value in any of the real estate markets, right? And you go about 25% above the median, maybe 30% above the median values. That's what I call the emotional market. These are the really nice houses that are fun to visit. You know, nice to stay in, nice to live in, but they are emotional. This is an emotional market. The cash flow numbers have never worked. They're not on the ultra high end that those people normally own cash and they don't really care the fluctuation. It's that level above the median where I see the emotional market really take the hit, because when the emotion comes out, while the people it's harder to sell to find the buyers, especially with the rates jumping the way that they have over the last two years, there's not the ability to sit back and say, Well, you know what, Keith, I'm just going to hold this and rent it, because their negative position, their negative cash flow every month, begins to sink them quickly, and so that's where you see that pressure downward on that emotional market. If that makes any sense.   Keith Weinhold  9:06   did Florida really get ahead of itself with the increase in pandemic migration? Was there more building because they projected that high migration rate to continue, and it just didn't. Is that why areas of Florida are overbuilt.   Jim Sheils  9:22   What I believe happened was the migration was there, Keith, but again, you have to look at the sectors of the market. Now, when you're looking at a large national home builder, their goal is to sell the property with the greatest profit spread. It's just that simple, and those are the properties when times are good and times are hot, this emotional market, you know, 20, 30% above the median value for an area that's a very easy time to promote and to sell those types of properties and make the best spread for them. And so, yes, in that area, they got ahead of themselves, because it was easy to market to, easy to promote to. And again. In. Some people untrained investors, or people just emotional and saying, Well, I'm gonna have a second home in Florida, and I'll get there more often than I think I will. That causes that issue now, but going to the lower segment, like the workforce housing, like you and I have talked about, well, that has been underprepared for the migration and affordability. That is my word of the year, affordability, the affordable housing, the workforce housing. When you look at the stats, I think it was last year we found the stat that for every 25 workforce housing, new construction workforce housing, there's 100 renters. And so the workforce housing has been underdeveloped, and why? You know, we're a niche builder. It's very rare for a builder like us to focus on workforce housing. That's not the focus of many of the larger builders. They're on that more emotional market. So that's where we focus. But with builders like us focusing on that, no one else that part of the market, Keith has been under supplied, actually in the last few years, because the net migration didn't need those emotional houses. They needed the workforce housing.   Keith Weinhold  11:05   This is a great distinction. We can look at a stat like there's 26% more available housing inventory in Florida statewide than there was pre pandemic, but you've got to parse that by product type, workforce housing, which you specialize in, including build to rent, housing has not been oversupplied, not nearly to that same extent. It could even be undersupplied, depending on where you're at. These are the properties that make the best long term income properties. I hope you the listener caught it there. Jim gave an important date. 2004 is a key year when there were changes to building codes, which results in what your insurance premiums are going to be. Tell us more about that.    Jim Sheils  11:50   Yeah, 2004 right through Punta Gorda, Florida, where we build now. There was Hurricane Charlie came through. My dad's cousin, I have actually lived there at the time. I mean, that place got decimated. Keith, it got absolutely decimated, and the government called timeout. They said, timeout. Okay, we got to stop this. New rules. Moving forward, we're going to change the structural design requirements. We're going to change the elevation requirements. This is the big one. So you know, back in the day, you and I, if we were back in 1962 in Fort Myers, Florida, we could build a house at two feet or three feet above sea level. Those days are gone. If you're going to build a property like going back to Punta Gordon, now today, you have to build it 13 to 14 feet above sea level. So that means builders like us got to bring in a lot of dirt, and we grumble and complain about it until a storm goes through and we have no flooding on any of our properties. But that was a requirement, then stronger fasteners and structural design, because they just didn't want that risk or this type of damage. And it's been interesting, because they've been two hurricanes, you know, since 2004 that have really gone right over the eye. The main power of the storm has gone through. Punta Gorda. I've actually showed this on some videos that we've done on YouTube, like the flyover the next day, and you would think, Oh, well, maybe there was like a strong wind that went through, because there's palm fronds down and some fencing, but the houses are intact, and it's because things had to be rebuilt to today's standards. So I always tell people, hey, you know, we'd love to help you get a house, but if you're just going down there to find a house, I would highly recommend you look at the elevation and look if your house was built before the year 2004 or after, because that is really when things started to change. Not that a house earlier might not have what you're looking for, but elevation is such a key component when you're near coastal areas in Florida, the elevation of your home.   Keith Weinhold  13:41   Is it that simple? Pre 2004 you're likely to pay substantially higher insurance premiums on your Florida property than you are if the build year was 2004 or later.   Jim Sheils  13:52   It's a main component, Keith, another component will be to that is, you know, how close are you to the beach? If you're within, you know, a half a mile of the beach that can have an on lower ground of an older property, those combinations for risk analysis for an insurance company will come up not in your favor, and so you have to put that into account too. Again, the further you move inland, especially the further you move north, and the further you move inland in Florida, the insurance premiums go down because the risk assessment of the last 100 Years of hurricanes has been so much dramatically lower of actually causing issue.   Keith Weinhold  14:29   We'll talk about the Florida areas that you build in later. But first, let's just pull back. Talk about statewide. How bad is it? How bad is it with the overbuilt condition in some segments of the residential market, and how that's led to price attrition, a lack of rent growth or rental occupancy rates that are hurt potentially. Can you speak to that? How bad is it now,   Jim Sheils  14:54   again, going to the segment of the emotional market, so we're talking 20 to 30% above the median. In price in an area that's going to be bad, that's where you're going to have to have downward pressure. You're going to have to your property may have appreciated Well, if you did in 2020, but you're not selling a peak pricing. You're going to have to come off your numbers a good amount, because there's not as many buyers. And also, you got to remember, coupled with that pricing coming down, it's also the interest rates we got pretty spoiled. You know, three and a half percent interest rates, two and a half percent interest rates for some homeowners, that's just not the norm now. So when you're going off those numbers, the affordability, the ability to make that payment, has really been affected. So that emotional market, I think we're going to see a continued softening in that and again, in that emotional market too. To what I saw was, and I own some short term rentals, and I like short term rentals, but what we saw there was a rush, like, almost like a California gold rush, here in Florida, to people coming in and buying what they consider a short term rental, which was not really desirable for short term rent. It could get a few people here and there, but they would buy it, this emotional market, and then the numbers wouldn't work out. Now that, as well, is starting to put pressure on people saying, Oh, I'm losing so much money every month. Let's just sell and again, that emotional market, that area, 20, 25% 30% above median value. That's where we're seeing that. So you're going to see some pressure downward of that, I'd say at least another 10% because there's already been a dip in some areas 15 to 20% so there has been a correction in those and I think we'll continue to see that until some of this stabilizes.    Keith Weinhold  16:32   Talk to us about how the rental segment's doing, statewide   Jim Sheils  16:36   rental, we saw a stagnation for about a year and a half to two years, and just in the last six months, we've seen an increase in some of our main markets here. Again, when I say they main markets here, I'm always speaking, because that's what we stick to, the workforce housing. So we've seen workforce housing some of our main central Florida markets and some of our Northeast markets go up another 50 to $100 which was great, because it was stagnant for about two years. About two years. And then you'll see a continued dip of probably, you know, 10 to 15% on some of that emotional market rentals, because now there's a rush to try to rent them, and again, there's not as much of a demand for that segment of the market.    Keith Weinhold  17:17   We're talking with a prominent Florida home builder about Florida's temporarily overbuilt residential housing type. We've already learned that 2004 is a key year for what your insurance rates are likely going to be. We've also learned about how you need to segment these residential housing markets between workforce housing and the emotional side of the market. You're listening to get rich education more when we come back on Florida real estate, I'm your host, Keith Weinhold.   Keith Weinhold  17:46   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President Chaley Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com.    Keith Weinhold  18:18   You know what's crazy, your bank is getting rich off of you, the average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little is 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back. No weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family tp 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund, again. Text family to 66866,   Kristen Tate  19:29   this is author Kristen Tate. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. You   Keith Weinhold  19:46   welcome back to get rich education. Jim is with us, a prominent Florida home builder, and it's so interesting to talk to a home builder today because you think a Florida is overbuilding Ground Zero, even though, paradoxically. Nationally, we're still in a somewhat under built condition, where there's somewhat of a lack of available housing supply. Now, back on our April 28 show, exactly three months ago today, which I know that you listened to Jim, that show was titled, is Florida real estate doomed? And the short answer is no and I gave a number of reasons for that. You don't want to catch a falling knife as an investor. One prominent reason that Florida real estate is not doomed, and you're not catching a falling knife, and this is so close to being 100% predictable, is the fact that the growth is going to be there. It always has been in Florida, the in migration has been remarkable. If you go back and look at every census over about the last 200 years, since 1830 Florida has grown substantially every single census, oftentimes and usually at a rate greater than the national average. So in migration is almost certainly going to continue, which, over the long term, will put upward pressure on prices, upward pressure on rents, and help with rental occupancy as well. When you have a vacancy, that next incoming tenant is going to be there, I think that's about as close to predictable as it can possibly get. So talk to us more about the dynamics in Florida and the in migration.   Jim Sheils  21:26   It's funny, Keith, last year the net migration, and you can check through all the stats out there. The net migration number for Florida, that means more people, obviously coming in than leaving, and the surplus was just about 470,000 so we still have a growth of 470,000 and people have set up. Florida. Net migration is over. And I'm going, well, it was pretty superb during the pandemic, but to say it's over when it's about a half million up from last year, I think would be a misconception for at the very least. So we feel the people are still coming, and we're asking, what kind of housing do they need? Do they need that higher end, emotional market housing? Not what we're seeing, what they're needing is affordability. They're going to areas where there's still great job source, there's still great affordability, and that's what we look for. Where can we still build a new construction, single family home for under $300,000 and have great job source close by. That's one of the things that we look for. Also, where is there that under supply of that workforce housing? There are very key markets in Florida that you know about that we build in. We're saying, yeah, there's lots of stuff on the market up there, but there is no supply of this workforce housing. We're going to keep building. And as you know, we have not stopped building the last two years, when a lot of people have run for the sidelines because they weren't in our sector of the market.   Keith Weinhold  22:48   Of course, you're very strategic about where you build geographically. Talk to us about where those places are   Jim Sheils  22:54   right now. Keith, my pick of the year has been the greater Ocala region, and I know we've been working with a lot of GRE folks in that region. Couple of reasons why, still had the strongest migration of any area in the US. And you can look that up. U haul had it as number one destination place. This was when I say greater Ocala. I look at Ocala, citrus springs, Inverness, that central Florida area. You know, still in some of those markets, Keith, we're building homes for 200 60s, 270,000 that's new construction, and enabled to get great rent and great financing, which no we'll talk about. And the job source is remarkable right now. In fact, interesting statistic, Keith, I know you watch this closely. In Ocala, the median price of a home is just around 300,000 main Ocala, you can get cheaper when you go out to citrus springs and Inverness, down to the 260s 270s but the median family income is 72,000 and when you look at that, that is a very good affordability index. That's very high average family income compared to a low median price, and that's bringing in more jobs. That's bringing in more security. Couple that with Central Florida being one of the lowest hurricane risk zones in the state. It's the highest ground. It's the furthest inland, in fact, to ensure a single family home on average in that area, about $65 a month for full coverage, wow, for a duplex, $105 a month, full coverage. And that's the advantage of new construction buying in the right areas or low hurricane risk zone and great job source coming in. So my favorite market right now, Keith, is that Central Florida, Ocala, citrus springs, Inverness, that's where we're building. Oh, that's also when people say it's overbuilt. Well, no, because we know that we're actually building for a few of the big institutions that have way bigger analysis departments than we do, and they're seeing that it's so behind on housing that people are finally going in. It was kind of an overlooked market all through the pandemic for the most part, and now it's finally getting people's attention.   Keith Weinhold  24:58   A couple months ago. On the show, I shared how a close friend purchased a new build Ocala duplex through you, the rents he got were even a little higher than you projected, and his insurance premium is $694 again, this is for a duplex. I forget. I think the purchase price was 400 to 420k on this new build property.   Jim Sheils  25:23   Yeah. And it's funny when people, we have lots of investors coming from all over, but I was in California's, know, for years. And when people hear a quote like that, like that, you just said 650, $6 they think that's for the month. And I say, No, no, no, that's for the year. And again, that's the misconception now, but you could pick up and you could go to a coastal area again, like I said in a 1952 duplex built at two feet above sea level that's had hurricane issues before, and your insurance could be $8,000 a year. Yeah, that's where you have to really shop before you actually pull the trigger on property. What are the taxes? What are the insurance? I mean, this is going back to core play, core strategy, but it's something you really have to look at   Keith Weinhold  26:07   talk to us about the product types that you're offering, all new build, and what percent of single family, duplexes and larger   Jim Sheils  26:15   the main majority of what we're building right now is single family and duplex. The numbers work great. They're in high demand. You know, duplexes are a pretty interesting product, Keith, because you can put them in single family home neighborhoods, and, you know, families that couldn't normally rent, afford to rent a full house there, can avoid an apartment building, still feel like they have their own home and afford to be in that neighborhood. So I'd say 80% of what we're doing is a combination of single family home and duplexes, and then, as you know, we still are building some of our quads, our four unit buildings in some areas of northeast Florida, like Jacksonville,   Keith Weinhold  26:50   expenses have obviously been on the mind of real estate investors. More so since interest rates doubled to tripled in 2022 you're selling to investors. Investors need the numbers to work. Since they're not in the emotional market, we're in the market where we're looking at numbers, and that biggest expense, of course, is your mortgage principal and interest. So you found a way to deal with high insurance premiums, because on most or all of your properties that you sell to investors, those insurance premiums are excessively low. Talk to us about what you've done with the mortgage rates, for investors   Jim Sheils  27:27   it's such an important point here, Keith, I remember hearing a warren buffett thing years ago saying, Well, I'm not really in the real estate and that, but for me, when I look at it, a house is worth what it can rent for. And that always stuck with me being Warren Buffett, even though he's not heavily invested in real estate like we are. But for get his sage advice on that that's always stuck with me. So when you're getting a property, yes, you want to have fair price, but the terms around it that actually produce the cash flow, or what's the condition of the property, where is it? But then the other fundamental numbers, what is your insurance? What are your taxes? And then the final big thing is, if you're leveraging, which I encourage, what's your mortgage? And so as you know, we're probably as obsessed with financing as we are with building right, cuz that's our model. We gotta build right. We gotta finance right. So we're always looking for the most advantageous programs where we can team up with banks. They'll allow us to pay an abnormal amount of points, which means discount points that we will pay, not the buyer, we will pay for our buyers to get the rate the lowest and most advantageous. We don't like short term teaser loans, where your rate's going to adjust in 18 months or two years. We saw a lot of people get in trouble with that, at least I did back in the Oh 708, days. So we want long term financing and low interest that's going to produce a cash flow, even though it's new construction from day one. And so right now, our newest program, as you and I have been talking about very excited, is actually a 40 year loan. It's a 40 year loan. We're paying the rate down. Right now we're at five and a quarter. A few weeks ago is at 4.75 so it does fluctuate back and forth. But here's what's exciting, Keith, you're leveraging into a new construction property that has longevity and durability. The first 10 years. Interest only the next 30 years is a 30 year AM, 30 year fixed at five and a quarter. So when you start to do the numbers and go through it, we're almost doubling cash flow on our single family homes and duplexes for people in areas like Ocala, and that makes such a difference to getting them off on the right foot.    Keith Weinhold  29:32   This is a key distinction. Rather than focusing on slashing the price and your properties are already affordable, you buy down that rate by purchasing discount points to buy down that mortgage rate for the investor at the terms that you just described. Builders often like this more. They don't want to cut their prices, because that can become a comparable and lead to a downgrade in values. And investors actually like it more as well, because rather than discounting the price. A little more. It helps the investor more. When you buy down that rate and you do it for them, they are not the ones participating in the rate. Buy down you, the investor. You're paying the closing costs like origination fee and title insurance and things like that. Okay with those 40 year loan terms like you laid out fixed interest only for the first 10 years, and then after 10 years, it transfers to a 30 year fixed, amortizing loan, still with that same rate locked in. Is that right?   Jim Sheils  30:29   That's correct. So there's no sometimes people think, oh, then it's going to trigger upwards several percent. It stays the same the whole 40 year term. We just go from interest only to principal and interest and again, you know, because you talk about the leverage all the time, the most important time to really solidify the strength of an investment and get cash flow going. The most pivotal time is in those first few years. Yeah, we feel we're really giving people that strong foundation to get a cash flowing right off the bat and be able to look long term. The great thing about new construction is people say, Could you hold it that long? I said, I'm planning to with some of my new constructions. Hopefully I'll be a little old man or my children will own them. But you can look out that far and know that you're jumping your cash flow in those initial years when a lot of people may be falling backwards. In fact, when we talked about those emotional markets where people bought higher end properties because they looked good and they felt good to walk through, and then all of a sudden they're bleeding month in, month out for a year, two years, three years. That's when they're ready to wave the white flag. We find with our model, with getting that rate really low, we're accentuating the cash flow forward those first few years, Keith, so they're ready to keep going after a few years, instead of raise the white flag.   Keith Weinhold  31:41   Yeah, when we think about how you're helping investors here while moving product at the same time, the number of problems that are solved are remarkable because you're solving the higher mortgage rate problem by buying down the rates. You've got a low rate, you've got a low insurance premium, you as the investor are almost certainly going to have low maintenance and repair costs since it's new build. And what else do you do when it's new build? The tenant, when they move in, they're the first person that's ever lived in that property, which probably means they're going to have a longer tenancy duration, because it's hard to move up and move into something better than the product you're offering, especially with low affordability for first time homebuyers. In fact, tell us about your average tenancy duration   Jim Sheils  32:21   yeah. So as you know, Keith, I did a ton of fixer uppers. First 15 years of my career, I wore that rehab badge on my shoulder with pride. I loved rehab and old houses. And look, that's great. That's a great way to get going. But I transitioned into new construction a decade ago, and so we've been able to do a lot of comparisons. And you know, back in the day, when I was fixing up lots of properties and renting them out, the older properties, my average tenant would stay about 13 months. It was a little over a year, get them for a year, and then there was move. But that was the average 13 months. Looking back now, and we've been doing this almost a decade. When you look at our new construction model, that went from an average of about 13 months to just over three years with our new construction product. So as you know, if all of a sudden we're pushing back that first move out from a year or 13 months to over three years, that's a tremendous way again to get the right footing and directional on your investment. So that was a really pleasant surprise. I did not expect going to new construction, but jumping from a year to three years has been a nice surprise.   Keith Weinhold  33:24   This brings to mind for you as a passive investor, it's sort of analogous to buying an existing business or starting a new one from scratch yourself, whether it's a rental car company or a tomato farm. You know, a lot of people wouldn't think about getting into business, they think about buying their own business, starting it from scratch, and that's really difficult to do when you're an investor. This way, you're not doing a fix and flip yourself, which is analogous to starting your own business from scratch. You get to buy someone's existing business. You're buying an existing property, a new build one, in this case, and that way you can look at all the financials already and have it be done for you in that all done for you sort of way, just like it is here. Well, Jim, do you have any last thoughts about the Florida real estate market today, especially with the lucrative product type that you're offering to investors?    Jim Sheils  34:16   I would just remind people do your homework, because there's apples and there's oranges, and you gotta compare the two, and you have to do the homework on which segment of the market is healthy and which one is not. I wouldn't recommend you invest in the unhealthy segment of the market, but look where the fundamentals are working. And go back to that term, a house is worth what it can rent for. And if you can look at that, and also couple with stability of new construction, this is where we've seen ourselves make the most money most success with the least amount of time for our investors. So I highly encourage that recipe for anyone out there.   Keith Weinhold  34:53   In addition to being a builder, Jim's company also holds properties under management. For investors, just like you, they offer that for you. For the long term, they have over 1000 current investors, many of them are GRE listeners. You can learn more about the provider at GRE marketplace under Florida statewide, but to get a free strategy session about the latest in what they have for available inventory, and also to compare this provider to other providers, the highest flex, the highest ROI move that you can make yourself as the listener for your due diligence is to connect with a GRE investment coach. It's free at GRE investment coach.com, oh, it's been valuable. Jim, thanks for coming onto the show.   Jim Sheils  35:38   Thanks for having me. Keith.   Keith Weinhold  35:46   Oh, yeah, hearing it straight from a builder today. And you know, a lot of builders create these nice looking, emotional Type homes, the same ones that appeal to owner occupants. They build those higher end homes because they create more builder profit. Well, that's the segment that has become overbuilt today, this build to rent provider we're talking about here is dealing with a public that reads these articles about the Florida slowdown, though things are still good in this workforce housing market. Well, because the public reads headlines, this builder still has to step in with incentives. So really, this is a case study on what a home builder needs to do to adjust to public perception more so than the reality. That's why Jim and his company keep building when others are they keep building because they keep selling to savvy investors, including you, the GRE listener, conversely, the overbuilt emotional market segment, that's where Florida single family home prices are often about 500k or more, and many of them have stopped building. It's that here, with this workforce housing, brand new, single family rentals sell for the high 200k to 300k range in the three hundreds and duplexes in the four hundreds. We've been working with this provider for nearly a decade, and I've asked them, what can you do for GRE listeners? And these are the best incentives yet, is they basically are making discounts in your favor to deal with this public perception. And they are an interest rate buy down that they make for you, like we mentioned, currently to five and one quarter percent. They're also giving GRE listeners two years of free property management, a rental Protection Program, a six month eviction guarantee and a 210 builder warranty. When you see a builder warranty expressed that way, that means they cover two years on the small stuff, 10 years on the big stuff. The latest pro forma that I saw for their single family rentals had a purchase price of 325k and a cash on cash return of nearly 7% when you include all those generous incentives. So if you're looking for a new market to expand into the time and place could very well be here and now, some people wait for blue sky and everything to be perfect before they act well, that never happens. This is about as close as you'll get today. You'll either keep what you've got or change what you're doing here, Jerry, we constantly shop the nation for you. Our coaches help show you where those deals are that they found. And this is a potential opportunity. Here you can get on the calendar of one of our investment coaches for free. And if you like, start by asking about Florida new build property with all the incentives that you heard about here on GRE podcast, 564 at GRE investment coach.com until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 4  39:09   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  39:32   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access, and it's got paywalls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers, it's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is. The Golden Age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read. And when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate video, course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream. Letter, it wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now just text gre to 66866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text, gre to 66866   Keith Weinhold  40:48   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com  

563: Are College Towns Doomed? Housing Supply Grows, More Apartment Loan Implosions with Hannah Hammond

Keith highlights the decline in college town real estate due to demographic changes and reduced international student enrollment.  The national housing market is moving towards balance, with 4.6 months of resale supply and 9.8 months of new build supply.  Commercial real expert and fellow podcast host, Hannah Hammond, joins Keith to discuss how the state of the real estate market is facing a $1 trillion debt reset in 2025, potentially causing distress and foreclosures, particularly in the Sun Belt states.  Resources: Follow Hannah on Instagram  Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/563 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation   Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai    Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, are college towns doomed. There's a noticeably higher supply of real estate on the market. Today is get rich education. America's number one real estate investing show. Then how much worse will the Apartment Building Loan implosions get today? On get rich education.   Speaker 1  0:27   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads in 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:12   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:28   Welcome to GRE from Orchard Park, New York to port orchard, Washington and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education. How most people set up their life is that they have a job or an income producing activity, and they put that first, then they try to build whatever life they have left around that job. Instead, you are in control of your life when you first ask yourself, what kind of lifestyle Am I trying to build? And then you determine your job based on that. That is lifestyle design, and that is financial freedom, most people, including me, at one time. And probably you get that wrong and put the job first. And then we need to reverse it once you realize that, you discover that you found yourself so far out of position that you try to find your way back by putting your own freedom, autonomy and free agency first. There you are lying on the ground, supine, feeling overwhelmed, asking yourself why you didn't put yourself first. Then what I'm helping you do here is get up and change that by moving your active income over to relatively passive income, and doing it through the most generationally proven vehicle of them all, real estate investing for income. We are not talking about a strategy that didn't exist three years ago and won't exist three years from now. It is proven over time, and there's nothing avant garde or esoteric here, and you can find yourself in a financially free position within five years of starting to gradually shift that active income over to passive income.    Keith Weinhold  3:29   Now, when it comes to today's era of long term real estate investing, we are in the midst of a real estate market that I would describe as slow and flat. Both home price appreciation and rent growth are slow. Overall real estate sales volume is still suppressed. It that sales volume had its recent peak of six and a half million homes moved in 2021 which was a wild market, it was too brisk and annual sales volume is down to just 4 million. Today, more inventory is accumulating, which is both a good news and a bad news story. I'm going to get to this state of the overall market shortly. First, let's discuss real estate market niches, a particular niche, because two weeks ago, I discussed the short term rental arms race. Last week, beach towns and this week, in the third of three installments of real estate market niches are college towns doomed? Does it still make sense to invest in college town real estate? Perhaps a year ago on the show, you'll remember that I informed you that a college closes every single week in the United States. Gosh, universities face an increasingly tough demographic backdrop ahead. We know more and more people get a free education. Education online. Up until now, universities have tapped a growing high school age population in this seemingly bottomless well of international students wanting to study in the US. But America's largest ever birth cohort, which was 4.3 million in 2007 is now waning. Yeah, that's how many Americans were born in 2007 and that was the all time record birth year. Well, all those people turn 18 years old this year. This, therefore, is an unavoidable decline in the pool of potential incoming college freshmen from the United States. And on top of that, the real potential of fewer international students coming to the US to study adds to the concern for colleges. This is due to the effects and the wishes of the Trump administration. It already feels like a depression in some college towns now among metro areas that are especially reliant on higher education, three quarters of them suffered weaker economic growth over the past 12 years than the US has as a whole. That's according to a study at Brookings Metro. They're a non profit think tank in DC, all right, and in the prior decade, all right, previous to that, most of those same metros grew faster than the nation did. If this was really interesting, a recent Wall Street Journal article focused on Western Illinois University in McComb Illinois as being symbolic of this trend, where an empty dorm that once held 800 students has now been converted to a police training ground, it's totally different, where there are active shooter drills and all this overturned furniture rubber tipped bullets and paintball casings, you've got to repurpose some of these old dorms. Nearby dorms have been flattened and they're now weedy fields. Two more dorms are set to close this summer. Frat houses and homes once filled with student renters are now empty lots city streets used to be so crowded during the semester that cars moved at a crawl. That's not happening anymore. It's almost like you're watching the town die, said a resident who was born in Macomb and worked 28 years for the Western Illinois Campus Police Department. Macomb, Illinois is at the heart of a new rust belt across the US colleges are faltering, and so are the once booming towns and economies around them. Enrollment is down at a lot of the nation's public colleges and universities starting next year due to demographics like I mentioned, there will be fewer high school graduates for the foreseeable future, and the fallout extends to downtown McComb. It's punishing local businesses. There's this multiplier effect that's diminishing. It's not multiplying for generations. Colleges around the US fueled local economies, created jobs and brought in students and their visiting families to shop and spend and growing student enrollment fattened school budgets, and that used to free universities from having to worry about inefficiencies or cutting costs. But the student boom has ended, and college towns are suffering. And what are some of the other reasons for these doomed college towns? Well, first, a lot of Americans stopped having babies after the global financial crisis, you've got a strong dollar and an anti foreigner administration that's likely to push international student numbers down on top of this, and then, thirdly, US students are more skeptical of incurring these large amounts of debt for college and then, universities have been increasing administrative costs and tuition above the rate of inflation, and they've been doing that for decades. Tuition and operating costs are detached from reality, and in some places, student housing is still being built like the gravy train is not going to end. I don't see how this ends well for many of these universities or for student housing, so you've really got to think deeply about investing in college town housing anymore. Where I went to college, in Pennsylvania, that university is still open, but their enrollment numbers are down, and they've already closed and consolidated a number of their outlying branch campuses. Now it's important notice that I'm focused on college towns, okay, I'm talking about generally, these small. Smaller, outlying places that are highly dependent on colleges for their vibrancy. By the way, Pennsylvania has a ton of them, all these little colleges, where it seems like every highway exit has the name of some university on it. That is starting to change now.    Keith Weinhold  10:21   Conversely, take a big city like Philadelphia that has a ton of colleges, Temple University, Penn, which is the Ivy League school, St Joseph's, Drexel LaSalle, Bryn Mawr, Thomas Jefferson, Villanova. All these colleges are in the Philly Metro, and some of them are pretty big. Well, you can be better off investing in a Philly because Philly is huge, 6 million people in the metro, and there's plenty of other activity there that can absorb any decline in college enrollment. So understand it's the smaller college town that's in big trouble. And I do like to answer the question directly, are college towns doomed? Yes, some are. And perhaps a better overall answer than saying that college towns are doomed, is college towns have peaked. They've hit their peak and are going down.    Keith Weinhold  11:23   Let's talk about the direction of the overall housing market now, including some lessons where, even if you're listening 10 years from now, you're going to gain some key learning. So we look at the national housing market. There is finally some buyer selection again, resale housing supply is growing. I'm talking overall now, not about the college towns. Back in 2022, nearly every major metro could be considered not just a seller's market, but a strong seller's market. And it was too much. It was wild. Three years ago, buyers had to, oftentimes offer more than the asking price, pay all cash. Buyers had to waive contingencies, forgo inspections, and they had to compete with dozens of bidders. I mean, even if you got a home inspection, you pray that the home inspector didn't find anything worse than like charming vintage wiring, because you might have been afraid to ask for some repairs of the seller, and that's because the market was so hot and competitive that you might lose the deal. Fast forward to today, and fewer markets Hold that strong seller's market status. More metros have adequate inventory. And if you're one of our newsletter subscribers, you saw that last week, I sent you a great set of maps that show this. As you probably know, six months of housing supply is deemed as the balance point between buyers and sellers over six months favors buyers under six favors sellers. All right, so let's see where we are now. And by the way, months of housing supply, that phrase is also known as the absorption rate nationally, 4.6 months of resale supply exists. That's the current level, 4.6 months per the NAR now it bottomed out at a frighteningly low one and a half months of supply back in 2022 and it peaked at 12 full months of supply during the global financial crisis, back in 2010 All right, so these are the amounts of resale housing supply available for sale, and we overbuilt homes back in the global financial crisis, everyday people owned multiple homes 15 years ago because virtually anyone could qualify for a loan with those irresponsible lending standards that existed back in that era. I mean, back then, buyers defaulted on payments and walked away from homes and because they had zero down payment in the home. Well, they had zero skin in the game to protect and again, that peaked at 12 months of supply. Now today, Texas and Florida have temporarily overbuilt pockets that are higher than this 4.6 month national number and of course, we have a lot of markets in the Northeast and Midwest that have less than this supply. But note that 4.6 months is still under six months of supply, still favoring sellers just a little, but today's 4.6 months. I mean, that's getting pretty close to historic norms, close to balance. All right, so where is the best buyer opportunity today? Well, understand that. So far, have you picked up on. This we've looked at existing housing supply levels here, also known as resale homes. The opportunity is in new build homes. What's the supply of new construction homes in the US? And understand for perspective that right now, new build homes comprise about 1/3 of the available housing supply. And this might surprise you, we are now up to 9.8 months of new build housing supply, and that's a number that's risen for two years. That's per the Census Bureau and HUD. A lot of builders, therefore, are getting desperate right now, builders have got to sell. The reason that they're willing to cut you a deal is that, see, builders are paying interest costs and maintenance costs every single day on these nice, brand new homes that are just languishing, just sitting there. Understand something builders don't get the benefit of using a home. Unlike the seller family of a resale or existing home, see that family that has a resale home on the market, they get the benefit of living in it while it's on the market. This 9.8 months of new build supply is why buyers are willing to cut you a deal right now, including builders that we work with here at GRE marketplace.    Keith Weinhold  16:30   And we're going to talk to a builder on the show next week and get them to tell us how desperate they are. In fact, it's a Florida builder, and we'll learn about the incentives that they're willing to cut you they're building in one of these oversupplied pockets. So bottom line is that overall, an increasing US housing supply should keep home prices moderating. They're currently up just one to 2% nationally, and more supply means better options for you. Hey, let's talk about this very show that you're listening to, the get rich education podcast. What do you like to do while you're listening to the show? In fact, what are you doing right now while you're listening to the show? Well, in a recent Instagram poll, we asked our audience that very question you told us while listening to the show, 50% of you are commuting, 20% are exercising, 20% are at work, and 10% are doing home chores like cleaning or dishes. Now is this show the number one real estate investing podcast in the United States, we asked chatgpt that very question, and here's how they answered. They said, Excellent question. Real estate investing podcasts have exploded over the past 10 to 12 years, but only a handful have true long term staying power. Here's a list of some of the longest running, consistently active real estate investing podcasts that have built serious legacies. And you know something, we are not number one based on those criteria. This show is ranked number two in the nation. Number one are our friends at the real estate guys radio show hosted by Robert Helms. How many times have I recommended that you go ahead and give them a listen? Of course, I'm just freshly coming off spending nine days with them as one of the faculty members on their summit at sea. Their show started in 1997Yes, on actual radio, before podcasts even existed, and chat GPT goes on to say that they're one of the OGS in the space. It focuses on market cycles, investing strategies and wealth building principles known for its international investor perspective and high profile guests like Robert Kiyosaki. All right, that's what it says about that show. And then rank number two is get rich. Education with me started in 2014 and it goes on to say that this is what the show's about. It says it's real estate centric with a macroeconomic and financial freedom philosophy. It focuses on buy and hold investing, inflation, debt strategy and wealth building. Yeah, that's what it says. And I'd say that's about right? And this next thing is interesting. It describes the host of the show, me as communicating with you in a way that's clear, calm and slightly academic. That's what it says. And yeah, you've got to be clear. Today. There's so much competing for your attention that if I'm not clear with you, then I'm not able to help you calm. Okay? I guess I remain calm. And then finally, slightly academic. I. Hadn't thought about that before. Do you think that I'm slightly academic in my delivery? I guess that's possible. It's appropriate for a show with the word education in our name. I guess it makes sense that I'd be slightly academic. So that fits. I wouldn't want to be heavily academic or just academic, because that could get unrelatable. So there's your answer. The number two show in the nation for real estate investing.    Keith Weinhold  20:29   How are things going with your rental properties? Anyway, I had something interesting happen to me here these past few months. Now I have a property manager in one market that manages quite a few of my properties, all these single family homes and I had five perfect months consecutively as a real estate investor. A perfect month means when you have 100% occupancy, 100% rent collection, and zero maintenance or repair costs. Well, this condition went on for five months with every property that they managed. For me, which is great, profitable news, but that's so unusual to have a streak like that, it kind of makes you wonder if something's going wrong. But the streak just ended. Finally, there was a $400 expense on one of these single family homes. Well, this morning, the manager emailed me about something else. One of my tenants leases expires at the end of next month. I mean, that's typical. This is happening all the time with some property, but they suggested raising the rent from $1,700 up to 1725, and I rarely object to what the property manager suggests. I mean, after all, they are the expert in that local market. That's only about a one and a half percent rent increase, kind of slow there. But again, we're in this era where neither home price growth nor rent growth have been exceptional.    Keith Weinhold  22:02   I am in upstate Pennsylvania today. This is where I'm from. I'm here for my high school class reunion. And, you know, it's funny, the most interesting people to talk to are usually the people that have moved away from this tiny town in Appalachia, counter sport, Pennsylvania, it's not the classmates that stayed and stuck around there in general are less interesting. And yes, this means I am sleeping in my parents home all week. I know I've shared with you before that Curt and Penny Weinhold have lived in the same home and have had the same phone number since 1974 and I sleep in the same bedroom that I've slept in since I was an infant every time that I visit them. Kind of heartwarming. In a few days, I'm going to do a tour of America's first and oldest pretzel bakery in Lititz, Pennsylvania with my aunts and uncles to review what you've learned so far today, put your life first and then build your income producing activity around that. Many college towns are demographically doomed, and even more, have peaked and are on their way down. Overall American residential real estate supply is up. We're now closer to a balanced market than a seller's market. We've discussed the distress in the five plus unit apartment building space owners and syndicators started having their deals blow up, beginning in 2022 when interest rates spiked on those short term and balloon loans that are synonymous with apartment buildings. When we talked to Ken McElroy about it a few weeks ago on the show, he said that the pain still is not over for apartment building owners.   Keith Weinhold  23:51   coming up next, we'll talk about it from a different side, as I'll interview a commercial real estate lender and get her insights. I'll ask her just how bad it will get. And this guest is rather interesting. She's just 29 years old, really bright and articulate, and she founded her own commercial real estate lending firm. She and I recorded this on a cruise ship while we're on the real estate guys Investor Summit at sea a few weeks ago. So you will hear some background noise, you'll get to meet her next I'm Keith Weinhold. There will only ever be one. Get rich education podcast episode 563 and you're listening to it.    Keith Weinhold  24:31   The same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties, they help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com that. Ridge lendinggroup.com, you know what's crazy?    Keith Weinhold  25:03   Your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back. No weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family to 66 866, to learn about freedom family investments, liquidity fund, again, text family to 66866   Caeli Ridge  26:13   this is Ridge lending group's president, Caeli Ridge. Listen to get rich education with key blind holes. And remember, don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  26:31   Hey, Governor, education nation, Keith Weinhold, here we're on a summit for real estate on a cruise ship, and I'm with Hannah Hammond. She's the founder of HB capital, a commercial real estate lending firm, and the effervescent host of the Hannah Hammond show. Hey, it's great to chat   Hannah Hammond  26:48   you too. It's been so great to get to know you on this ship, and it's been a lot of fun,    Keith Weinhold  26:51   and we just met at this conference for the first time. Hannah just gave a great, well received presentation on the state of the commercial real estate market. And the most interesting thing, and the thing everyone really wants to know since she lends for five plus unit apartment buildings as well, is about the commercial real estate interest rate resets. Apartment Building values have fallen about 30% nationwide, and that is due to these resetting loans. So tell us about that.   Hannah Hammond  27:19   Yeah, so there is a tidal wave of commercial real estate debt coming due in 2025 some of that has already come due, and we've been seeing a lot of the distressed assets start to hit the market in various asset classes, from multifamily, industrial, retail and beyond. And then, as we continue through 2025 more of that title, weight of debt is going to continue to come due, which is estimated to be around $1 trillion of debt.    Keith Weinhold  27:44   That's huge. I mean, that is a true tidal wave. So just to pull back really simply, we're talking about maybe an apartment building owner that almost five years ago might have gotten an interest rate at, say, 4% and in today's higher interest rate environment that's due to reset to a higher rate and kill their cash flow and take them out of business. Tell us about that.   Hannah Hammond  28:03   Yeah. So a lot of investors got caught up a few years ago when rates were really low, and they bought these assets at very low cap rates, which means very high prices, and they projected, maybe over projected, continuous rent growth, like double digit rent growth, which many markets were seeing a few years back, and that rent growth has actually slowed down tremendously. And so much supply hit the market at the same time, because so much construction was developed a few years back. And so now there's a challenge, because rents have actually dropped. There's an overage of supply. Rates have doubled. You know, people were getting apartment complexes and other assets in the two or 3% interest rate range. Now it's closer to the six to 7% interest rate range, which we all know it just doesn't really make numbers work. Every 1% increase in interest you'd have to have about a 10% drop in value for that monthly payment to be the same. So that's why we're seeing a lot of distress in this market right now, which is bad for the people that are caught up on it, but it's good for those who can have the capital to re enter the market at a lower basis and be able to weather this storm and ride the wave back up   Keith Weinhold  29:08   income down, expenses up. Not a very profitable formula. Let's talk more about from this point. How bad can it get? We talked about 1 trillion in loans coming due this calendar year tell us about how bad it might be.    Hannah Hammond  29:23   So it's estimated that potentially 25% of that $1 trillion could be in potential distress. And of course, if two $50 billion of commercial real estate hit foreclosure all at the same time, that would be pretty catastrophic, and there would be a massive supply hitting the market, and therefore a massive reduction in property values and prices. And so a lot of lenders have been trying to mitigate the risk of this happening, and all of this distress debt hit the market at one time. And so lenders have been doing loan modifications and loan extensions and the extend and pretend, quote. Has been in play since back in 2025 but a lot of those extensions are coming due. That's why we're feeling a little bit more of a slower bleed in the commercial market. But you know, in the residential market, we're not seeing as much distress, because so many people have those fixed 30 year rates. But in commercial real estate, rates are generally not fixed for that long. They're more they could be floating get or they might only be fixed for five years, and then they've reset. And that's what we're seeing now, is a lot of those assets that were bought within the last five years have those rate caps expiring, and then the rates are jacking it up to six to 7% and the numbers just don't make sense anymore.   Keith Weinhold  30:36   That one to four unit space single family homes up fourplexes has stayed relatively stable. We're talking about that distress and the five plus unit multi family apartment space. So Hannah, when we pull back and we look at the lender risk appetite and the propensity to lend and to want to make loans, of course, that environment changes over time. I know that all of us here at the summit, we learn from you in your presentation that that can vary by region in the loan to value ratio and the other terms that they're talking about giving. So tell us about some of the regional variation. Where do people want to lend and where do people want to avoid making loans   Hannah Hammond  31:11   Exactly? And we were talking about this is every single region is so different, and there's even micro markets within certain cities and metropolitan areas, and the growth corridors could have a very different outlook and performance than even in the overexposed metro areas. So lenders really pay attention to where the capital is flowing to. And right now, if you look at u haul reports and cell phone data, capital is flowing mostly to the Sun Belt states, and it's leaving the Rust Belt states. So this is your southeast states, your Texas, Florida, Arizona, and these types of regions where a lot of people are leaving some of the Rust Belt states like San Francisco, Chicago, New York, where those markets are being really dragged down by all this office drag from all the default rates in these office buildings that have continued to accumulate post COVID. So the lender appetite is going to shift Market to Market, and they really pay attention to the asset class and also the region in which that asset class is located. And this can affect the LTV, the amount of money that they're going to lend based on the value of the property, also the interest rate and the DSCR ratios, which is how much above the debt coverage the income has to be for the lender to lend on that asset.    Keith Weinhold  32:26   So we're talking about lenders more willing to make loans in places where the population is moving to Florida, other markets in the Southeast Texas, Arizona. Is that what we're talking about here.   Hannah Hammond  32:37   exactly, and even on the equity side, because we help with equity, like JV equity or CO GP equity, on these development projects or value add projects. And a lot of my equity investors, they're like, Nah, not interested in that state. But if it's in a really good Sunbelt type market, then they have a better appetite to lend in those markets.   Keith Weinhold  32:56   Was there any last thing that we should know about the lending environment? Something that impacts the viewers here, maybe something I didn't think about asking you?   Hannah Hammond  33:04   I mean, credit is tight, but there's tons of opportunity. Deals are still happening. Cre originations are actually up in 2025 and projected to land quite a bit higher in 2025 at about 660, 5 billion in originations, versus 539 billion in 2024 so the good news is, deals are happening, movements are happening, purchases and sales are happening. And we need movement to have this market continue to be strong and take place, even though, unfortunately, some investors are going to be stuck in that default debt and they might lose on these properties, it's going to give an opportunity for a lot of other investors who have been kind of sitting on the sidelines, saving up capital and aligning their capital to be able to take advantage of these great deals. Because honestly, we all know it's been really hard to make deals pencil over the past few years, and now with some of this reset, it's going to be a little bit easier to make them pencil.    Keith Weinhold  33:04   This is great. Loans are leverage, compound leverage, trunks, compound interest, leverage and loans are really key to you making more of yourself. Anna, if someone wants to learn more about following you and what you do, what's the best way for them to do that?    Hannah Hammond  33:42   At Hannah B Hammond on Instagram, my show, the Hannah Hammond show, is also on all platforms, YouTube, Instagram, Spotify, Apple, and if you shoot me a follow and a message on Instagram, I will personally respond to and would love to stay connected and help with any questions you have in the commercial real estate market.    Keith Weinhold  34:27   Hannah's got a great presence, and she's great in person too. Go ahead and be sure to give her a follow. We'll see you next time. Thank you.   Keith Weinhold  34:40   Yeah. Sharp insight from Hannah Hammond, there $1 trillion in commercial real estate debt comes due this year. A quarter of that amount, $250 billion is estimated to be in distress or default. This could keep the values of larger apartment buildings suppressed. Even longer, as far as where today's opportunity is, next week on the show, we'll talk to a home builder in Florida, ground zero for an overbuilt market, and we'll see if we can sense the palpable desperation that they have to move their properties and what kind of deals they're giving buyers. Now until next week, I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, do the right thing before you do things right out there, and don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 3  35:33   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  35:56   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info. Oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access and it's got pay walls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters. And I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you'll also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text gre 266, 866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text, gre 266, 866,   Keith Weinhold  37:12   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com.  

562: $1M Homes Will Be Normal by 2033, Beach Town Bust, How to Put 10% Down on Income Property

Register here for the live online event to learn about ‘Unlocking BRRRR Deals in Little Rock’ on Thursday, 7/17. Keith discusses the rising cost of real estate, predicting that million-dollar homes will become common by 2033 due to: supply scarcity, demographic demand, inflation, and regulatory costs. Over half of U.S. states have cities with starter home prices over $1 million.  Hear about the challenges of investing in beach towns, citing rising insurance costs and maintenance expenses GRE Investment Coach, Naresh, joins the conversation to highlight the BRRRR strategy for income property investment. Resources: Register here for the live online event to learn about ‘Unlocking BRRRR Deals in Little Rock’ on Thursday, 7/17. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/562 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai    Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, million dollar homes will be normal by 2033 I'll discuss why and exactly where they'll be arriving. Why are more beach towns going bust? What's in the big, beautiful bill for real estate investors? Then how to own income property with just 10% equity in it today on get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  0:28   Mid South home buyers, I mean, they're total pros, with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider. Their empathetic property managers use your ROI as their North Star. So it's no wonder that smart investors just keep lining up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone. They're headquartered in Memphis and have globally attractive cash flows and A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and now over 5000 houses renovated, there's zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate, while their average renter stays more than three and a half years. Every home they offer has brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter. Remember that part and in an astounding price range, 100 to 180k I've personally toured their office and their properties in person in Memphis, get to know Mid South. Enjoy cash flow from day one. Start yourself right now at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid south homebuyers.com.   Speaker 1  1:53   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:10   Welcome to GRE from Palm Bay Florida to Palm Springs, California and across 188 nations worldwide, you are inside one of the longest running and most listened to shows on real estate investing. This is Get Rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, I think you know that by now, you can also find my written work in both Forbes and the USA. Today, million dollar homes could be coming to right where you live only as the average home, a typical home. Best said is the million dollar median priced home. They're increasingly common across America. We're going to look at the exact areas where this is going to happen next, and why. Though, real estate prices are only up about 2% annually. This time, a plethora of forces are conspiring to push median American home prices ever higher to a million bucks by 2033 the reasons for ever higher future prices on a national basis are supply scarcity. Though, homes aren't as scarce as they were, say three years ago, incessant demographic demand, continued inflation, tariff pressures, heightened regulatory costs, the rate lock in effect remote work and a perpetual construction labor shortage that makes it easier to find a unicorn than, say, a good plumber out there. All these things are conspiring to push long term prices up, up, up, and sadly, this will make first time home buyer dreams, well only dreams, not a reality for so many Americans. CBS News recently called first time homebuyers an endangered species for this reason. Hmm. Then I wonder if the US Fish and Wildlife Service is now protecting these beleaguered, endangered first time homebuyers. Now the typical Canadian single family home costs 779,500 Canadian dollars today. And get this now, of course, some US regions will have rising prices, and others falling prices in the shorter term, although the general direction is up, but more than half of us, states, 28 out of 50, already have at least one city where the median price for a starter home, just a starter home, is a million dollars or more. This is per realtor.com economist. More than half of states have that condition. Now I want a starter home that's defined as 80% or less of the price of an area's median Well, here we go. It is not just trophy cities anymore that are on the precipice of the million dollar club. It's these moderately priced cities that are next in line, and one trend is that they're located near already expensive markets. For example, Stockton, California is two hours inland from San Francisco, and Stockton is best known for well being two hours from San Francisco. That's about it, all right. Well, here is the 2023 median price. And it's 2033 projection, only eight years away, really, just a little over seven years away. This is where we're going. All right, Boise, from 465k up to $1,163,000 million $163,000 Boston, from 623k to 992k and again, these are 2023 median home prices, and then what they're projected to be in 2033 as these million dollar homes become typical, just in these somewhat moderately priced. US areas, let's continue Colorado Springs. 455k up to $1,020,000 I've made two trips to Colorado Springs in the past two years. I really like it. They're really livable with a nice little airport Denver. 548k up to $1,297,000 Honolulu, 638k up to $1,144,000 Portland, 501k to more than doubling to $1,052,000 Sacramento, 558 up to over $1.1 million Salt Lake City, more than doubling from 493k up to $1,064,000 Seattle, 694k up to $1,486,000 and finally, the aforementioned their Stockton, California, 579k up to $1,447,000 million dollar homes are increasingly abundant into places that are surely Not trophy cities anymore. They're projected to come to all these places by 2033 and this is very realistic, because consider this, what will a million dollars even be worth in 2033 just a little more than seven years away, what will a million dollars even be worth then at 3% inflation, just $789,400 All right. Well, what should you do with this information? It gives you perspective, waiting is not helping get comfy with million dollar homes that are like just kind of all right? And here's the thing, a million dollar home that used to be like posh that used to come with a waterfront view or a celebrity neighbor, and today you just get a popcorn ceiling in a mysterious draft in some entire counties, like I've told you before, in San Mateo County, California, the median home price is already over $2 million just an average home county wide. And I also mentioned to you that there's another California County, Santa Clara, California, where the median price is over $2 million but there are more Nantucket, Massachusetts, Pitkin, Colorado and Teton County, Wyoming, all over $2 million county wide. I mean, in places like this, a million dollar home is a gut job. I mean, it needs a renovation. In these places, a million dollar home costs less than half of the county median. So therefore it is so broken down that you might not even be able to get a conventional loan for that property. And notice that the Sun Belt is not on any of these lists for now, despite its growth, there's still vast land and cheaper housing there the southeast and the Midwest, they still feel like America's affordable housing frontier. But you've got to wonder, for how long and what else does this continued low affordability mean? It's the American. Emerging trend that few people see coming, but we've talked about here, it's that common tidal wave, this horde of new renters that are coming, priced out of million dollar homes. Your renters are coming, and what does this mean for you? Well, consider owning low cost rental property in those low cost parts of the nation. We help you do that here, completely free, at GRE investment coach.com a tidal wave of future renter demand means higher rents and higher occupancy rates. Your renters are coming.   Keith Weinhold  10:39   now, last week, on the show, I discussed the Airbnb arms race, how short term rentals really need a serious glow up and some major investment to compete in a lot of markets anymore. This week, let's discuss the trends in another real estate niche that's largely fallen on some harder times, and that is investing in beach town, something that might be more top of mind for us, as we are here in mid summer. The very best beach town for a bikini slim budget is Pascagoula, Mississippi, a gulf shore escape, where the typical listing will run you a mere 166k can you believe that now this gulf coast town of 22,000 people, it is somewhat of an aberration, though, be careful, Pascagoula is affected by a FEMA rule that really limits the amount of renovation that you can do there? Atlantic City, New Jersey, it's another beach town with a jaw droppingly Low typical list price of 242k yeah. Atlantic City, AC is the name long synonymous with gambling and Trump property port. Ritchie, Florida is another notably cheap beach town with just a 255k typical list price. And it's notable because back in 2019 GRE did a real estate field trip there where I and the property provider and a few speakers, we hosted you, and then we toured properties together in a coach, a tour bus, but those neighborhoods were actually about two miles inland, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, still just 299k. Corpus Christi, Texas and Ocean City, Maryland, are two more notably cheap beach towns now, especially after talking about the million dollar homes and then you hearing about these cheap beach towns. You might be wondering, gosh, should I buy property for cheap in these beach towns? But, you know, buying the beach house is just the start. Rising. Insurance costs and maintenance costs have forced a lot of investors to question whether beach homes are too big of a gamble now with a few investor profiles here were interviewed first Levi Rogers, a retired Green Beret and a real estate broker in San Antonio, he recently shared how his property on the Gulf Coast went from $3,200 a year for insurance to over $11,000 and that's if you can even get coverage without bizarre exclusions, throw in new flood zone Redeterminations and wild HOA fee hikes due to inflation, and your profits are wiped out in an instant. That's what Levi Rogers says about his particular situation. Honestly, coastal property makes me more nervous than my first Million Dollar Listing. Despite loving beachfront real estate, that's what Los Angeles real estate agent Wesley Kang says he's seen changes that would shock most investors. Insurance costs broke another record at his Marina del Rey listing the owner just got hit with a $68,000 annual premium up from 15k last year, while his neighbor, two blocks inland, pays just 7k so in addition to hurricanes and slow and steady beach erosion, that has caused some homes to simply collapse and fall into the sea. Kang, the Los Angeles real estate agent, said his Malibu client just spent his entire summer rental income on mandatory seawall repairs. Another had to install $100,000 worth of water barriers just to keep his insurance. So is a beach home a good investment? Well, owning it really is not the easy, dreamy investment that it used to be. There are some investors that still think it's worth it, but they need to change their strategy. Roger said that he hasn't sold yet. He just. Had to adapt. That's the San Antonio real estate broker. He cut his rental period down to only the high season months. Raised his rates by 22% just totally ended low season bookings, and he promoted high end upgrades to make the numbers work. He says you have to run it like a hospitality business now, not a passive rental, so the ROI can still be there, but only if you're really on top of it, actively managing risk and costs and the guest experience. Otherwise, what you're doing is that you are just financing someone else's vacation. And this is along the lines of what I was discussing last week with short term rentals in general. Real Estate Investor Daniel Roberts, based in Idaho, he says beach properties are now riskier. He has reinvented his approach to stay solvent. He says we improved our rental by presenting the property as a luxury destination, adding concierge services with dining and boat tours and even fitness sessions. With this rental arrangement, we earned 18% more on rental income last year compared to the previous year, is what he says. However, still, our profits have decreased a little since we now pay so much more each month for insurance and for maintenance, if you're shopping for a beach house and hoping for a deal, it might pay to search a bit inland for cheaper properties and insurance rates, and then it's not really a beach house anymore. Elevation is your friend. Certain oceanfront areas are experiencing a steep drop in some places like Florida. I mean, can you buy the dip if you're looking for opportunities in investor areas like Florida, which saw a huge run up of people heading there during the pandemic, but their jobs require them to return to the office. If you're in the market for a vacation property that you can rent out and possibly use as a second home. There are beginning to be more and more choices. So the bottom line here is that many beach towns are in a bust. Their profitability is under attack, chiefly from these insurance premiums that have as much as 3x or more for many in the past three or four years, Hoa costs are up due to inflation, and then there's just simply the threat of more storms and more beach erosion, and just the stress and concern that causes even outside of the insurance cost, short term rentals tend to be right on the coast or A short walk from the beach. The best long term rentals tend to be inland, inland. Long term rentals are long where we have focused here on this show, and they tend to be stable and steady and frankly, kind of boring, but somehow boring in an interesting way, if that's possible, they plod along paying you five ways.    Keith Weinhold  18:05   Hey, is get rich education the number one real estate investing podcast in America. Are we number one? I've got an answer for you on an upcoming episode. It looks like the big, beautiful bill that was signed into law on the Fourth of July will be advantageous for real estate investors. It extends a lot of Trump's 2017, tax cuts and Jobs Act. There are modifications to opportunity zones in the big, beautiful bill. But the big story is that 100% bonus depreciation has been restored, reset, huge that applies to qualified property placed in service from January 20, 2025 through the end of 2029 now is the Time to accelerate acquisitions and renovations to leverage 100% bonus depreciation. I mean, this is great for investors. And what this does is it allows you to fully deduct the cost of qualifying renovations, property improvements and certain building components immediately, instead of you, having to spread the deductions out over several years. Major however, the big, beautiful bill does not do much of anything to help those beleaguered first time homebuyers that endangered species. In fact, in a previous version of the bill, it was going to open up millions of acres of public lands for new development. Now, if that happened, that could have added more housing supply and therefore kept home prices from perpetually rising, and therefore maybe helped first time home buyers. But that provision was removed from the bill before it got passed. All right, so those public. Lands will not be developed. That was not part of this bill, and that's a quick overview of what Trump's big, beautiful Bill means to real estate investors. To review what you've learned so far. Today, million dollar homes are coming to more places, and that's due to supply scarcity, demographic demand, incessant inflation, tariff pressures, heightened regulatory costs, the rate lock in effect, remote work and a perpetual construction labor shortage. More beach town properties are going bust due to surging property insurance costs and the big beautiful Bill has some serious positives for real estate investors, but not for first time home buyers.    Keith Weinhold  20:45   There is a lot happening here at GRE we, including me and our investment coaches here, are talking with you, our investors. We're talking with the nation's top property providers, as we always do, and there's just a lot of real estate news. How can you follow us to keep up on all this? Well, there are three main ways, and they're all free. There's no subscription cost. That is, firstly, through this show, the get rich education podcast. Secondly, our YouTube channel called get rich education. Yes, we are consistently branded. And the third main way to follow us is with our Don't quit your Daydream newsletter. Sign Up Free by texting GRE to 66 866, that's text GRE to 6668 66 and there you go. They're in they are the three main ways to follow us, podcast, YouTube channel and newsletter, and then also our social media channels, get rich education can be found at all the usual places, Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok and x, but our handle is Get Rich ed on x because there is a character count limit there. That's how to follow us. You can find our recommended property providers at GRE marketplace when you're getting actionable, and then to engage with us for a free strategy session to learn your goals and really put you on a financially free trajectory. You can do that with our investment coaches directly book time on their calendar at GRE investment coach.com   Keith Weinhold  22:25   what is happening with the future of the Fed and interest rates, and how can you put as little as 15% even 10% down on an income property? That's next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education    Keith Weinhold  22:39   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com. That's Ridge lendinggroup.com.   Keith Weinhold  23:11   You know what's crazy? Your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk, because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back. No weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family 266, 866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund again. Text family to 66 866   Naresh Vissa  24:21   you this is peak prosperity. Chris Martenson, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  24:42   It's terrific to have a familiar voice back on the show. It's an in house discussion with our own GRE investment coach since 2021 he's met with you, usually over zoom or the phone completely free to learn your own personal goals. Find the market that's right for you. Two. And he even goes as far as helping connect you with the exact property address that would make your next real estate pays five ways property, like say, you find 654, Maple Street in Little Rock, Arkansas or Indianapolis, Indiana. For you, he helps you through it all. And then he even helps you if you have any trouble after owning the income property. He's got the formal education with his MBA, and he walks the talk because he's a direct real estate investor, just like I am. Hey, welcome back to the show investment coach Naresh Vissa.   Naresh Vissa  25:32   thanks for having me back on. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and the loyal GRE listenership that we have. I think   Keith Weinhold  25:40   we enjoy talking to each other more than President Donald Trump and Fed Chair Jerome Powell do for sure. And I think if anyone's been paying any attention, there's been quite a feud between Trump and Powell, and it's been pretty entertaining. Trump has referred to Powell as Mr. Too late, like too late to make a decision. He has called Powell a numbskull. He has said Powell has a low IQ for what he does. That drama has been really interesting now. Powell's term ends in May of next year, so about 10 months from now. And I think most anyone knows that Trump wants an interest rate cut badly, but Powell keeps holding tight, and what Trump says is that he wants to lower the interest costs on our national debt. That's the reason that Trump gives for lowering the rates. But Powell's been reluctant to lower rates because it might stoke inflation. In reality, I suspect that Trump wants lower rates just to juice economic growth, like that's the real reason, and then Trump sort of hopes that inflation only catches up with the next president who comes in in 2029 and interestingly, back on July 1, Jerome Powell said, if it weren't for tariffs, he would have already lowered rates. What are your thoughts?   Naresh Vissa  26:55   Well this is a lot more complicated than it seems, and here's why Trump called Powell a lot of names, and I think some of those names hold true if we go back to when Biden was president, because it was in April, May 2021, that I was saying, hey, it's time to start increasing the interest rates, because inflation was going up significantly, very quickly, it was going up. And if you recall, Keith, I know you did many episodes on this, Powell kept saying, Oh, this is transitory. It's just transitory. And my whole justification was, well, look, a 25 basis point hike ain't gonna kill anybody. And they refused to do it for an entire year. Once we started seeing inflation going up. And by that point, inflation went up close to 10% that's how bad it got. That's it didn't hit the double digits, but it was very close to hitting the double digits. So yes, I do think Powell was a numbskull for not raising the rates back in 2021 but today I'm actually on Powell's side, because there are still inflationary pressures. And remember, Keith, the inflation target is 2% it's not two and a half percent. They haven't moved the goalposts. It's still 2% and last month, this is the media is not talking about this, except for get rich education today, inflation went up last month. So yes, it beat expectations, but it still went up. The expectations were that the terrorists were going to create this massive inflation and we would be back up at the three handle. And it didn't do that. But regardless, inflation still went up. So let's wait. Let's see what the CPI numbers show. I don't think we're going to be close. I don't think we're going to be under that 2% figure within the next two months, and that's why I think Powell is justified in holding to rate study. Now, with that being said, I do think because of Doge, we did an episode earlier this year on Doge, because of Doge, because of the latest ADP job numbers, the latest unemployment numbers, the private sector cuts that are happening at Microsoft and Google and a lot of other big name companies. I do think that inflation will eventually dip below 2% you look at the gas prices have hit four year lows. Look at egg prices have hit, I think four year lows or three year lows. I do think we'll dip below the 2% at some point. The question is, is, when is it going to be? You know, three months from now? Is it going to be a year from now? It all depends. So what does that mean for your question of, is Powell right? Is he wrong? Is he a numbskull? Who's right? I completely understand what you said is why Trump wants the rates cut, and that is, he wants to juice everything because he looks great, and it's a midterm election year, next year, and he doesn't want to lose his Congress. And I understand the political side of it, but the number one issue, the number one issue, according to almost every poll out there before. Election, the number one issue on voters minds was inflation. It's had things. The bleeding has not stopped, and the inflation is out of control. The groceries are too expensive. That's what's important. And I'm on Powell's side here. I think you have to be patient. On the other hand, Trump is being very aggressive, and he's looking to replace Powell, and he's going to put in his guy in there. I mean, the basic requirement for the job is you're going to get in there and slash entry. You're not even going to do a 25 basis point cut. You're going to go down to 1% fed upon rates overnight. That's what Trump wants. I don't know if you saw that, but Trump wants a 1% Fed funds rate pretty much overnight, because he's saying, oh, is going to save us all this money on the debt that we're paying, interest payments and data I get where both of these guys are coming from. I think the ideal scenario, because Powell, it looks like he's safe until maybe the end of the year. I think we hit that 2% point, definitely by the end of the year, and Powell will start cutting in September, we'll see a 25 that's what I think. I think we'll see a 25 basis point cut in September, maybe a 50 basis point cut in the next meeting after that, and and maybe even a 75 basis point cut in December. And that way, when the new guy comes in, he doesn't have to do this drastic COVID March, 2020, type of cut, of slashing rates close to zero overnight. We do it in a gradual I think that would be better for the country and for the economy and for the global economy. So that's where I see things. But regardless, regardless, we know for a fact that the interest rates, the cutting is beginning soon, and the rates are going to be very low sometime next year, if not by the end of next year, we know for a fact that the rates are going to be very, very low. And what that means for the housing market is that, and let's talk about the housing market really quickly, the inventory in the housing market is the supply side is very high. This is not 2021 2022 when homes are flying off the shelves and people were paying above asking price for homes. We're in a situation where the inventory has piled up. Home values have somewhat stagnated. If rates are going to bottom next year, then buying real estate. I don't want to say I'm not calling a bottom, but I'm saying that you can expect real estate home values to skyrocket once rates hit that 1% because of the Fed funds rate. So right now, we're seeing demand from investors because they're thinking what I'm saying, hey, the Fed is going to slash. We know that for sure because of Trump. And when that happens, institutions, individuals, they're going to start taking out debt, and the housing market's going to skyrocket just like stocks. I mean, really, most assets are going to skyrocket. So right now, I think, is an excellent, excellent time to be looking at buying real estate, and then you can just refinance later, when the rates bottom in a year or two,   Keith Weinhold  32:50   when you talk about high housing supply, I think what you mean is higher housing supply. Nationally, we're still 12% under supplied. It's just the fact that we have 30% more available housing supply in the one to four unit space than we did a year ago. At this time when we're talking about interest rates and things that have to do with the larger economy, here, you the listener should be aware that Naresh has often been tapped and interviewed by major network television on his opinions on these sort of broader economic issues, so he is qualified that way. And to give you an idea with what we're talking about with this desire to get the Fed funds rate down to 1% whether that happens or not, today's Fed funds rate is around 4.3% just to give you an idea of the magnitude of the potential cut, I don't forecast interest rates because it's very difficult to do, but it's interesting that Naresh has done some of that, and let's remember that Trump is actually the one that appointed Jerome Powell back in Trump's first term, and there's been a good bit of speculation around who the next appointee might be. In fact, if that appointee is named several months before Powell's termination of his term in May. Some people think that could be Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, that that alone could change the dynamic, that you would get someone more likely on board to make rate cuts and name them before they actually come into office.   Naresh Vissa  34:14   Well, the President decides he appoints that position, and we know for a fact 100% Trump is only going to put his person in there, man or woman, we don't know, but he's going to put his person. And the basic requirement for the job, it's not a PhD from Harvard or being a multi billionaire like Scott Besant. The basic requirement for the job is cutting the rates to 1% the Fed funds rate to 1% that's the bare minimum basic requirement for the job, and there are apparently lines of people who are lining up because they think they fit that requirement. So we know that's coming. We know it's coming at the latest, next year, like I said, Because Trump said it himself, and to be calling somebody a numbskull and all these names, he's very serious about this. It's an issue that means a lot to him. And again, I get where Trump's coming from. The government would save a lot of money on interest payments. And Trump's justification is, inflation is low, let's just try it, which I somewhat agree with. He says, Let's just try it, and if the inflation goes back up, then you just raise the rates. Don't you know, Powell was too late in 2021 the next guy won't be too late in raising rates this time around if the inflation does go back up. So it's a different strategy that would definitely juice the economy overnight. Of course, he wants that. Everyone's got their own opinions. I'm of the opinion. I think the Fed actually is for the most part. Post 2022 has done a good job. In fact, I did an episode with you, I think, a year and a half ago, saying that the Fed should have done more rate hikes, because we would have been at 2% inflation a year ago had the Fed done one or two more rate hikes, in my opinion. And we saw at the end of Biden's presidency, inflation started going back up when the Fed actually cut rates, when they should have been raising rates previously. So with that being said, this is a good opportunity for investors, because we are in that doldrum right now where we know the rate cuts are coming, at least we, you and I and GRE listeners know that the rate cuts are coming. Not everybody knows that they're coming, because they may not pay attention or follow this stuff as closely as we do. We know that they're coming, and what that means for the housing market is, like I said, juice. We can see juice in stocks. We can see juice and housing. We can see juice and Bitcoin and other commodities.   Keith Weinhold  36:35   Well, you use the word doldrum. Yes, the housing market is in somewhat of a doldrum. We have lower transaction volume than we have historically, for sure, and really that's led by we need to keep in mind as investors, that that's lower owner, occupant purchase volume, because investor purchases have stayed pretty steady.   Naresh Vissa  36:56   Yes, I'll say this, Keith, we work with a lot of different providers all around the country. I want to say we're up to something like 30 different providers in 20 different markets or so. When these partners are calling me saying, Hey, we got all these properties and send me your people and you know, let's do business together and help us find more investors, then I know that the housing market has somewhat stalled. It's not doing terrible, but I know that it's when those providers aren't calling me, or when they even cut off the relationship and say, Hey, I don't want to talk to you anymore. I don't want to work with you anymore. Then I know, hey, it's a really hot housing market. They don't really need me. And I'll tell you right now, every other day I have a partner of ours, I had to tell them to stop call. I said An email will do, or a text message will do. You don't need to call and leave me a bunch of voicemails. I have people calling me every day saying, Hey, we got all these properties, and they're amazing and they're beautiful, and send your people to us, which tells me that it could be actually a good time to start buying. Because it's not like I said, 2021 it's not 2022 it could be a good time right now, because the investor will hold more leverage, and the incentives that these partners are offering are second to none. I've never seen incentives this good. I mean, it's not just the free property management, it's not just the closing cost credit. It's negotiating prices of homes. It's getting cash back at closing, so just literally having a check overnighted to you that's in the five figures, cash back for buying property. So overall, I think it's a really, really good time right now to get into real estate, probably one of the best times, if not the best time since I joined GRE at the end of 2021   Keith Weinhold  38:40   of course, Ken McElroy was just here on the show with us a couple weeks ago, talking about what a good time it is to buy from his perspective as well. But yeah, Naresh, I appreciate that you're kind of letting the listener peek behind the curtain a little bit. We really get a good read on the pulse of the market here, and part of our job is to vet those providers that we work with, yeah, the race. Well, one property strategy that almost transcends eras is the BRRRR strategy. It's such a popular strategy with investors, because you can get in to a deal and have so little of your money left in the deal that you could end up with 10 to one levered. So the burr strategy, that's probably the most popular strategy with our investors. So tell us more about that.   Naresh Vissa  39:27   We've done several webinars already about Bert, and this has become the most popular strategy with our investors, hands down the amount of volume that we're seeing with our investors, people who keep buying more and more because the first one worked out. Now there are some that didn't work out, and that has more to do with the provider than it has to do with the strategy. The strategy is simply buy a property that needs to be completely rehabbed, refurbished. It's you buy a property, as is, you take out a hard money loan to renovate the property, to gut it, to update. It, bring it up to speed. Or you can pay cash. So a lot of people say, Oh, I don't have the cash to pay for such a property. So they're the hard money loan is there. Or you could pay cash. Our recommendation, my recommendation, personally, is take out the hard money loan, because you have that extra layer of protection, that extra body who will make sure that you're not getting taken advantage of, because that's a problem that we've seen with BRRRR, where some of the providers, some of the sellers, they'll sell the property, and then they just disappear after that. And we don't want that to happen. We want the rehab to actually get done, because the real value is by doing the rehab, making the house nice, renting it out to a tenant, and then refinancing the property, because the home value is going to appreciate so much. In some cases, some of our investors got 100% appreciation from what they bought the property at, and they were able to use that equity, 100% of that equity into the down payment, into other fees, so they didn't have to pay anything out of pocket for the property. So that's the beauty of the BRRRR strategy. And like I said, what's most important? Because we've already done two web it. We've done a Memphis burr webinar, we've done a Cleveland burr webinar. Now we're doing a little rock BRRRR webinar, and I think this is the best burr out of all the burs that we've done. And the reason is because the team we're working with, they have a legitimate company operation. They have a property management division, they have a rehab division, they have a sales division, they have a management division. This is not like a one man show or a two person company trying to do all these rehabs all at once. So they're very here's the schedule. This is what we have to do, very accurate and so yes, their pro forma numbers aren't going to be as aggressive as what our investors have seen with previous BRRRR providers. But the problem with those aggressive numbers is that a lot of the providers, they overinflate those numbers, and they don't follow through, let's say, on the rehab, or they do the rehab, and the appraisal does not come back at an amount that met the proforma. So I'm just really excited about this, because Little Rock is a new market that we've entered into. We have not done a lot of Little Rock promotion, a lot of Little Rock property. So it's a new market, number one and number two, it's the team that's there. This is the best of the best team. And if somebody came to me and said, Hey, I want to do a bur. Where should I do it? You've got all these different webinars and podcasts on burrs. Where should I do it? I would say bur Little Rock is where you want to do it, because you're going to sleep way better at night, and the process is going to be way smoother than the others. Yes, the pro forma numbers, they're not going to be as appealing, or they're not going to be as outlandishly high as those other markets, but those other markets, Memphis, Cleveland, there's a reason why those numbers are so high. And like I said, it's this team in Little Rock, amazing team, Keith, I know you've had some calls with them. We interviewed the their head Alex on last week's podcast episode. He and I are going to be doing this upcoming webinar on BRRRR little rock this Thursday, and we hope to see everybody there go to gre webinars.com, gre webinars.com, right now to register for that webinar.   Keith Weinhold  43:14   It's this Thursday, a live event that you can attend from your own home. And the benefit of you attending live is you can have your questions answered in real time. You can hear other attendees questions, which will help educate you on this process. And yes, I don't know if this will ever happen again. We do have Alex leading the bur strategy in Little Rock. He's been doing this for 15 years. He's got his vetted, proven team and a great system for doing this, so that so much of it is all done for you. And   Naresh Vissa  43:47   one more thing that I'll say, because this has become very popular with our online special event attendees, they hear podcast episodes like this, and they say, Hey, I want to jump on this before the live event, because all those other people are going to be on, and I want to jump. So I want to share, or Keith, I'll let you share our link for people to just reach out to me if you want to schedule a meeting or just email me. Just reach out to me if you don't want to wait until the webinar, the online special event this Thursday, if you want to get a head start, please absolutely reach out to me.   Keith Weinhold  44:20   That's a great thought. You can go to GRE investment coach.com right now and get on the race's calendar so that you can have a free meeting. Any last thoughts about Thursday's big event?   Naresh Vissa  44:32   like I said, it's going to be Thursday evening. The time is going to be at 8pm Eastern Time. Thursday, 8pm eastern the webinar, online special event will last about two hours. Our listeners, our followers, love these online events because they're highly interactive. We get everybody involved. They're fun, and the reason why they last two hours is because the people who attend are having such a good time. Them that they want it to last that long. I remember a long time ago when we used to do these online events, and they'd only last 30 or 40 minutes, and then that was the end. But now our file loves them so much. I think if you've never attended one of our online special events, you'll definitely want to attend this, because it is the timing is perfect before all these rate cuts, as the housing supply inventory is at a 12 month high. So the timing is is really good. The incentives are excellent. And like I said, we know interest rates are going to be slashed sometime next year, so you can always refinance later, but but getting in at these prices is going to be a true gift. So gre webinars.com, to register for this online special event.   Keith Weinhold  45:52   We are all looking forward to it this coming Thursday. Narration, it's been great having you back on the show.    Naresh Vissa  45:57   Thanks, Keith.    Keith Weinhold  45:58   Yeah. Fruitful in house chat, as always, with one of our investment coaches, Naresh, that's how you can leave as little as 10% down on an income property. When you do that, cash out refi with the burr strategy, you'll get in at today's lower prices, they tend to be 140 to 160k in Little Rock, Arkansas. You'll lock in this year's rates with that low price, with the BRRRR acronym, meaning buy, renovate, rent, refinance, repeat. Well, that refi is a little ways down the road after your initial purchase. Longer term, if interest rates go up, you'll be glad that you got today's rates. And if interest rates go down, which many expect, then you'll refi. The only thing bigger than the next Fed interest rate decision or the naming of a new Fed chair is Thursday's GRE live event itself, get ready. Really, the event presentation typically takes an hour or less. The rest of the time is your questions and conversations, so show up from the comfort of your own home, maybe with a beverage this Thursday, and since it's in the evening, probably not a stimulant, maybe a yerba mate, besides seeing real life case studies and understanding how the burst strategy works, how to optimize it and the mistakes to avoid, expect access to available Little Rock burr properties, actionable opportunities. Should you so choose? Sign Up Free at gre webinars.com Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Unknown Speaker  47:50   Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  48:14   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access and it's got pay walls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters. And I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you'll also get my one hour fast real estate video course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text gre 266, 866. While it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text, gre 266, 866,   Keith Weinhold  49:30   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com  

561: The Airbnb Arms Race, Why the Real Estate BRRRR Strategy Wins

Register here for the live online event to learn about ‘Unlocking BRRRR Deals in Little Rock on Thursday, July 17th at 8PM Eastern. Keith discusses the competitive nature of short-term rentals (STRs) and the need for hosts to offer luxury amenities to attract guests. Long time investing pro, Alex, joins us to cover the BRRRR strategy in Little Rock, Arkansas, an investor-advantaged market, emphasizing its low property taxes and stable cash flow. They explain the BRRRR process, including: buying, renovating, renting, refinancing, and repeating.  The strategy allows investors to scale their portfolios with minimal initial capital, offering a 0% management fee in year one and 4% in year two.  Resources: Register here for the live online event to learn about ‘Unlocking BRRRR Deals in Little Rock on Thursday, July 17th at 8PM Eastern. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/561 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai    Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, anymore when you own short term rentals like Airbnbs and vrbos, you are in an all out arms race competing to provide amenities like never before. Then what happens when you take the popular burr real estate strategy and overlay it with one of the most investor advantaged markets in all of America. It's a lucrative opportunity. You'll see how and why today on get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  0:32   Mid south home buyers, I mean, they're total pros, with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your ROI as their North Star. So it's no wonder that smart investors just keep lining up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone. They're headquartered in Memphis and have globally attractive cash flows, an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau, and now over 5000 houses renovated their zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate, while their average renter stays more than three and a half years. Every home they offer has brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter. Remember that part and in an astounding price range, 100 to 180k I've personally toured their office and their properties in person in Memphis. Get to know mid south enjoy cash flow from day one. Start yourself right now at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com   Speaker 1  1:58   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:14   Welcome to GRE from North Conway, New Hampshire to North port, Florida and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education, happy July, the second half of the year. And my favorite month of the year is your Airbnb fancy enough, because anymore STRS short term rentals have gotten so competitive that hosts treat their properties like white lotus level hotels. Now, STRS were never passive, but they become even less so it is active income. Once upon a time, Airbnb hosts could just sort of drop a few colorful throw pillows on their fold out couch and make a killing. But no more those days are so far gone. The STR game has changed drastically. I mean, you used to be able to list a basic home with generic furniture that you got at Costco, minimal amenities, no Wi Fi, and still get it booked, but today, it will sit empty unless you offer more than just a place to sleep. You have to build an experience for Airbnb guests. Now, increasingly, hosts are doing things like adding outdoor kitchens, arcade machines, putting greens, even basketball. And now, though these upgrades do cost a lot up front, they can pay off. These amenity types can double your nightly rate, but they come with more responsibility and more to maintain. I mean, more guests are expecting a flawless experience. The trend is that Airbnbs are becoming full scale hospitality operations, and if you don't treat it like one, you're going to fall behind. So simply having a nice house that just no longer cuts it, running a short term rental today is nothing like it was even two or three years ago. You used to be able to stand out with a decent bed and colorful throw prolos, but now guests are basically comparing your place to boutique hotels. Hosts are deeply investing in design, forward furniture, layered lighting and featuring spaces that some market as what they call moments like cozy reading corners in these luxurious bathroom setups, adding things like welcome guides and even complete brand identities with a proper. Name and even a logo and a story to give the place some personality, even writing up a history for your property, even if it's not that historic. Now, these sorts of tactics, they actually do, seem to work. Guests will give you more bookings, better reviews, and guests even share the space on social media like it's somewhat of a lifestyle destination now sometimes STR hosts, they team with these other platforms to add welcome champagne in ice buckets on site, sommeliers, private chefs, daily, housekeeping on demand. 24/7 textable concierges, heated plunge pools and other amenities through you partnering with some of these platforms and these upgrades don't come cheap. The publication called the playbook, they featured an STR in Sag Harbor, New York, where the property owner invested $85,000 into overhauling the landscaping and adding a James Turrell Inspired LED light installation. But overall, these improvements boost rental revenue by an average of 40% over what the property was collecting previously. All right, so this is a case study now, though, this STR trend of offering deep hospitality and luxury amenities has turned into more of a job and less about passive income. You know, really, this is free market capitalism, because this is competition to see who can provide the best service at the lowest price, but that's what it is. So this is making real estate less of a good and more of a service. Short term rentals soaring supply, day rate compression and AI driven pricing tools. That means that the just this all nice house with good photos thing that no longer cuts it. It is an amenities arms race now, and of course, this is a national trend. It doesn't mean that it's happening absolutely everywhere. In some places, hosts are able to charm guests simply with something like a freshly baked loaf of banana bread, but the consensus is whether they spend a little or a lot, Airbnb hosts unanimously say that they've got to work harder in order to keep guests happy. It's become more of a business and less of a side hustle than it used to be. You've got more hosts leaning into higher upfront investments because they know guests will pay for a sort of turnkey, Instagrammable experience. And this really is a classic early adopter issue, just like a lot of things, Airbnb launched in 2007 by the way, so this sort of first wave of Airbnb hosts back around 2012 to 2015 they were riding a blue ocean back then. There was virtually no competition. There weren't any standards, and there were plenty of bookings, and that made a lot of hosts pretty fat and happy. But that's not where we are now, really. The bottom line is that in many markets, short term rentals have transitioned from partial passivity to all out hospitality. That's the Airbnb arms race. The average Airbnb nightly rate for North America. Do you care to venture a guess at the average nightly rate? It is approximately $216 per night, and that right there is up 26% from 2020 so it is not up as much as house prices over that five year period from 2020 really, the Airbnb rate is up about as much as the long term rental rate.    Keith Weinhold  8:58   While we're talking numbers a quarter recently ended. Let's hit on our asset class rundown. What's happened to home prices in the past year? Well, when you aggregate all these sources, Zillow, Freddie, Mac case, Shiller, FHFA, in totality, home prices are up 2% single family rents are up 3% apartment rates are down 1% due to their oversupply. The 30 year mortgage rate was 6.9% a year ago, and it's 6.8 now. CPI inflation is 2.4% expressed in year to date terms. Now the SP5 100 is up 5% in the first half of this year, ending near 6200 the dollar is down. That means that it takes more of them to buy gold, which is over $3,300 an ounce, gold is up 27% just from the start of this year, and the oil price is still depressed in the 60s. Per dollar for a barrel, Bitcoin still strong, ending the quarter at 106kthat's your asset class rundown, which we do about quarterly.    Keith Weinhold  9:57   Hey, I really enjoyed meetingside. Of you on this year's terrific real estate guys Investor Summit at sea was concluded about a week ago. It was two days on land in Miami, followed by a week of conferences and fun aboard a Caribbean cruise ship. I really got to meet you and get to know you, because we had nine days together, and as one of the faculty members, I hosted a table at dinner every night, and each night the attendees rotated around to my table, so I got to meet a lot of you and really get to know you, and you got to know me. Yeah, it was as interesting for me to meet you in person, perhaps, as it was for you to meet me, because I like to hear what you're doing in real estate, investing, in everything else. I gave a main stage presentation that was almost an hour of all me, all GRE and also served on five different panel discussions. Oh, it's such a unique event. Get this, I was kind of dressed up to give my main stage presentation, which so many of you, by the way, told me afterwards, that that was your favorite presentation of them all, all week long, because each faculty member made a main stage presentation. But what I want to tell you is, just a few hours after I presented, on the cruise ship, I was shirtless in the water throwing a football around at the beach in St Thomas Virgin Islands. What an event. Fantastic to meet a number of you in person. So far today, I hope what I've shared with you has been informative. Next. It's something informative and really actionable that you can make lucrative that's next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  11:45   The same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com. That's Ridge lendinggroup.com.    Russell Gray  12:16   You know what's crazy your bank is getting rich off of you, the average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back, no weird lock ups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family to 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund again. Text family to 66866.   Russell Gray  13:30   Hi. This is Russell Gray, co host of real estate guys radio show, and you're listening to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream. You Keith,   Keith Weinhold  13:38   welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, we're talking to a guest not only about an investor advantaged market, but when you overlay a certain strategy with it, this can be highly lucrative for investor returns, and we're with a long time investing pro Alex, welcome onto the show.    Alex Craig  14:04   Hi Keith, thank you.    Keith Weinhold  14:05   Well talking about top US cashflowing market, let's get right to it. Tell us about yours.   Alex Craig  14:11   Little Rock, Arkansas. It's a market that we've been in since 2012. I personally invest there. I've got about 75 doors of multi family, single family. And the reason why it works is just cash flow. Over the years, we've had investors from around the country that have owned portfolios where maybe they're somewhere in Phoenix or Dallas, where they're kind of speculating. This is not a speculation market, and that's why it works for myself. It's consistent. It's very linear, and linear is a word that we use a lot to describe. And if you're going to be a cash flow investor, and that's why I'm in it, it's you want a linear market. You don't want ups or downs, and then you want to make sure it's a growing market too. And Little Rock checks all the boxes of what you would want in a stable cash flow environment market.   Keith Weinhold  14:57   And I think a lot of our investor listeners are. Already pretty keen on that. You get a high ratio of rent income to purchase price. You have laws that heavily favor landlords over tenants. But Alex, in today's environment, people are more conscious about rising operating expenses and higher mortgage expenses, and that's really one advantage that Arkansas can give right now, is with those low property taxes   Alex Craig  15:20   Keith,it's so interesting you mentioned that because I did have a conversation with a client of ours that had a property in another market that he had mentioned how his property taxes had gone up and gone up substantially, which that's to expect. I mean, after COVID, there was a lot of markets saw a huge boost, especially with markets that saw hedge funds come in. Hedge Funds, I believe, ruined a lot of markets, raised the prices. And another reason I like Little Rock, it flies under the radar. You think is Little Rock is a small market, but it's really not. It's, I mean, the population of the city is 250,000 but the metro area, which is a 50 mile radius around Little Rock, is much bigger. And the entire, not only the entire market, metro area, feeds off little rock, really, the entire state does too. But that being said, because it's floating under the radar, the property tax have remained low. They've taken a little bit of bump over the years, because the values steadily go up, but they started low anyway. So with operating costs of insurance, insurance has gone up for a lot of for my own properties in other markets, it's going up, and it's going up in Little Rock too. I mean, it's just the name of insurance, but property taxes have remained low. They've always been low, and that's really a big help as to why this market works for us.   Keith Weinhold  16:30   Talking about flying under the radar, you're talking about, therefore evading a lot of that hedge fund money. Tell us more about the market and some of those anchors and drivers.   Alex Craig  16:40   It's a blue collar town. You've got logistics. Is a market, or is a segment of the industry that has really come on strong over the last few years, Amazon has really put a footprint in the market. Healthcare is a huge, huge market, like I mentioned earlier, not only does the region feed off the direct to the entire state, it's the hub of healthcare for the entire state of Arkansas, of course, it's government. Government provides a lot of jobs. The good thing about government jobs is they're maybe not on a national level anymore, but on a local, state level, they're very it's hard to get let go from a government job, unless now, not on a federal level, but it's very steady, so a lot of steady blue collar jobs, and that's what you want for a strong resident base, especially in the type of properties and 1000 to $1,200 price range, you want those blue collar study growing jobs.   Keith Weinhold  17:31   Yes, you do have those there. It's funny. I'm smiling a bit because I used to be a state government employee, and there's just no way that they ever would have fired me. I was so protective I had to quit in order for them to have to replace me at that job. I'm wondering about the new supply that's come on, Alex, because a number of markets have added supply. I know, for example, that Redfin reports that little rock median home price appreciation is up 7.3% year over year, and with the dynamics going on in the market recently, that typically tells us that there hasn't been that much new supply added. Is that what's going on there?   Alex Craig  18:11   No, there hasn't been a lot of new supply. I just think with little rock and every other market, the mortgage rates have gone up. Home ownership is down during COVID. It was really hard to get an investment property. For what we did, sending out our list every week. It was basically send out our properties, people hitting send and not even knowing what they were reserving. Rates were just low, right? Everybody's jumping in. It was hard to get inventory. So now what we have is, you know, higher rates that scares some people off. It pushes some people out on the market, but it also creates opportunity. I feel like this is the easiest time I've been investing in real estate since 2007 that was the foreclosure crisis, Great Recession, and it was a lot of foreclosures on the market, and that's how I built a big chunk of my portfolio. But now it's just a matter of there's not as many people in it. So for us, there's just more acquisitions for us to go out and get. There's still distressed homes on the market where individuals don't want to hire a realtor, they just want all cash offers. They're ready to get rid of them, and that's where we step in. And without as much competition like I said, we kind of fly under the radar. I feel it creates more just supply inventory for us and for me as an investor, but also for our clients too   Keith Weinhold  19:23   with that in mind, and again, a lot of our audience is already on board, knowing that little rock in Arkansas is a good cash flow market with stable, long term fundamentals, but in order to make it more profitable, you've overlaid it with a certain strategy there in Little Rock. Tell us about that.    Alex Craig  19:45   So the BRRRR strategy, yes, it's able to work now because there's not as many buyers in the market. So basically, the way the burrs strategy works is we acquire a property. I'm just going to use very round, simple numbers for simple math makes it easier on me   Keith Weinhold  19:58   and we're talking the BRRRR. Strategy that's buy, renovate, rent, refinance, and repeat. Those are the five investor steps.   Alex Craig  20:07   correct. And so that's what we do, is we buy. Let's just say the B. Let's take the B, for example, we buy a home, and we buy it for 60,000 where I'm just talking like if I own the home, and then I put $20,000 into the deal. So now I'm all into it for 80,000 and you have to remember, there's some in between, cost of closing costs. I'm just talking just very general strategy. You buy it for 60, you put 20 into it, and all of a sudden you're in it for 80, and the value comes back at 100 so you're in it for 80% of the after repair value. Most Fannie Mae lenders will do 75% so if you purchase a house outright, you put 20% down, but if you are doing a refinance, you're able they'll do it at 75% so instead of buying a home and putting it down payment upfront, you're using equity in the deal. And that's what the burst strategy is, buy renovate. So we buy it, we renovate it, we refinance it, we rent it out, and then you repeat it. So it allows for investors to scale their portfolios quicker and stretch their money a little bit further. So if you've got, I've got $50,000 and I want to invest in real estate, if you purchase a home, you're bound by the down payment. Once you put that down payment, it's, I wouldn't call it sunk cost, but that money's gone for reinvesting. The burr model allows you to stretch that money a little bit further. Now, like I said, I gave pretty basic numbers to the deal, but that's what you're going for. Some equity in the deal, and that's what we're able to provide for ourselves and for our clients.   Keith Weinhold  21:38   So let's review that numbers on a little rock burp, making a $60,000 purchase with a pre renovated property. Then the investor puts another 20k into it for the renovation. So now they're all in for 80k and they get a 100k appraisal on that property, and then they can borrow, say, 75% of that there, that is the refi portion, the fourth letter of the BRRRR acronym. So therefore they've got 80k into it, and they got 75k back, meaning they would only have 5k into it, but maybe another 5k for closing costs, and now they only have 10k in to a 100k property. That's the appeal. That's what we're talking about here with the BRRRR   Alex Craig  22:22   strategy. I mean, you're exactly right. And as I mentioned, I use some really basic numbers, because when you're using, you know, 100,060 and 20 makes them very basic. It's pretty hard to find out a deal worth 100,000 these days, even when we started in the industry, 100,000 was a pretty cheap after pair value. Probably the mean value of the homes that we're dealing in is probably about 140 to 140 to 160 but same principle, based on those same logic that what we just talked about, I wouldn't say, you know, five or 10k out of pocket, but if you're talking about purchasing a deal with 25% down versus doing a bur you're probably going to be in it at 15% Out of pocket costs 10 to 15% as opposed to putting a down payment of 25% but the big thing is, you're getting money back, and you're not putting as much so just it's great for scale. I don't know if you'll talk about DSCR lending very much on your show, but that's something that a lot of our clients, and that does 80% so we have a lot of clients going that route now too.   Keith Weinhold  23:21   Okay, so you could do 80% with debt service coverage ratio loans, but to drop back in our example, to help be clear, the investor has 80k of their own skin in the game into the property, 60k for the purchase, 20k for the renovation, even though they only have 80k in it appraises for 100k that ARV, that after repair value. Why is the after repair value 100k when you only have 80k into it? Why is it more?   Alex Craig  23:49   that's based off comparable sales? So when you're in it at 80, and you're going to refinance it through a lender, they're going to send an appraiser out, and appraiser is going to pull comparable sales within that neighborhood. So just because you're in an 80 the appraiser is going to go pull three comps, very similar to that home. So if we're selling a three bedroom one bath, they're going to pull three comps at a three bedroom one bath, relatively the same size look, if it's got a carport, they're going to try to find three houses with the carport. So in theory, that's what they're doing. They're pulling comparable sales and developing new value based on recent sales.   Keith Weinhold  24:23   So it's that you have this knowledge to buy in neighborhoods and buy in certain sub markets, where, when you know that capital is added and renovations are made and a rehab period that they do tend to appraise for that value based on the comparables that are already there.   Alex Craig  24:40   Yeah. I mean, if we were to take the same house at 60,000 and didn't do any work, he would then say, well, you've got some comparables here versus 100 but you could never sell this home for 100 these are the things you have to do, and that's what we do during the first R the renovate of the acronym is to renovate the home to the condition that the. Appraisers feel that are comparable for the neighborhood, and that's a real important part, is comparable to the neighborhood. We could go in and put in a Jacuzzi tub and grain of countertops. We actually, we do put a lot of grain in, because we get it so cheap. But you could go in and fix it up to the nines, but it's not going to appraise for any more than the others, because the appraiser would say, we over improved it. So we improve it to what we know, what the kind of the standard for the neighborhood? Because you could over improve these things for sure and not get that return on that investment.   Keith Weinhold  25:28   That is a great answer. There is a specific improvement target that you know that needs to be hit. Tell us more about this burr process, because to an out of area investor, it can sound pretty intimidating if they had to manage contractors remotely themselves,   Alex Craig  25:43   there definitely is a need to have a team on the ground that you trust, that you feel comfortable with, and that's what we've done. I've been doing it in multiple markets for myself since 2007 and we built into a business model in 2010 like I said, expanded Little Rock in 2012 and we've been doing this for 15 years now for other investors. So we've got that name and that reputation of taking care of our investors, that's the important part. And we do see a lot of investors get burned, because you can find a realtor to go to help you find deals, but usually the realtor relationship is thesis to end. It's okay, I found you a deal, but then there's so many other things afterwards, and the renovations, where I see so many people get burned, and you know, we manage approximately 1200 homes between two markets, and that's where I see when property owners come to us, they've been burned the most. It's like they've paid somebody $50,000 they didn't finish the job, they didn't do what they say they're going to do. So the renovation that we're the team on the ground, we've got a in House Project Manager, we've got a network of subcontractors. We tend to act as the contractor, subbing things out. We've got in house property management. We've got all the tools, but it's really between both. In the markets in which I operate. I've got about 30 employees within property management, renovations, acquisitions, so the team on the ground is and then the back in the property management part is the long, ongoing accountability. So if something doesn't work out, that's the way we said it. If we say it's going to rent for 1200 and we rent it out for 900 Well, we really got a big egg on our face. You do a few of those, and that's how you don't stay in business anymore. And there's, and I like to say, about every five years the market corrects itself into getting the wrong players out of the business. COVID was super easy, easy to find deals, easy to sell deals. But once the market changed and it became a little more competitive and rates rose, that's the people that have been around for the long time, been in it for the long haul, that stick around. They've got the established business model and their reputation. So every five years, a good correction in the market eliminates those bad players.   Keith Weinhold  27:47   So you have this vetted, proven in play system that investors can get into besides just identifying the property, it comes with that system, those contractors or that investor just has one point of contact with you there for updates on the renovation.   Alex Craig  28:03   Yeah. I mean, I feel like we know these neighborhoods. I like I feel we know these neighborhoods like the back of our hand. We've been investing in them for a decade plus, and we know the areas you want to be in, the areas you don't want to be in. And we have a lot of investors will call us either they already own the property or they're a current client, and they'll say, Hey, I could get this deal for 30,000 and it's worth 100 and I'm like, Well, that sounds too good to be true, especially if it's on the open market. If it was that good of a deal, it's already gone. We just know the market, where to be. We know what to pay. We could, pretty much just through our experience, identify a house we know probably within about five to 10% before we even dive into comparable sales of what it's worth. We could walk through a house within probably about three to five minutes and peg the renovation costs probably within about 10% now we still order an inspection, and that's where we uncover the things that we can't see, that maybe there's a bunch of rotted out joist or a foundation problem that we didn't see. So, but there's things aside we could walk through and we pretty much know, okay, it needs a roof that's 7000 it needs an air conditioner that's six flooring, two. So that's the expertise that we bring and like. So then the management part of it, on the back end, that kind of ties it all together with accountability.   Keith Weinhold  29:22   And I know that your typical project renovation cost tends to be about 25k just for simplicity, we use 20k in that example, and your completion times are shorter than others that have inexperienced crews. So tell us about that typical renovation time. Alex.   Alex Craig  29:39   every day we're accomplishing 500 so 25,000 divided by 500 comes to 50 days, 50 days. So we'll knock that out in about 50 days. And we just have a large network of subcontractors that we've been working with for years. If you weren't in the business, I think that'd be really hard to accomplish, and there's just a lot that. Goes into it. I mean, the renovating the homes, it's the once, it's the worst, it's the hardest thing that we do. For sure, it's definitely the most scheduling, but it's where, if you don't know what you're doing, a great deal turns into, how do I get out of this?   Keith Weinhold  30:15   Right, absolutely. Now, in our example, we used where an investor puts 60k into it for the purchase to start with, because I see the burst strategy is a good strategy. If someone doesn't have a lot of capital, like they would for maybe a new build property, can one even finance that initial purchase amount?   Alex Craig  30:35   Yeah, so private lending. So that's the part that makes if you've only got 50 grand to facilitate this entire process, and you want to try to repeat it as many times as you can. 50,000 would not be enough just to pay cash. So yes, we have private lending. We set that up. Sometimes we lend it ourselves. Sometimes we outsource it to some of our strategic partners, but we'll lend the money to buy and renovate the home. A typical what that loan would look like it's about 3.3 points of loan origination. So if you've got an $80,000 loan, that's $2,400 most lenders do require for you to bring that up front, and now you're in it for an $80,000 loan at 12% which, five years ago, that sounded crazy to borrow at 12% but with for private lending, that's not bad at all, especially you want to get in and out of it quickly. So if we're renovating the home, and you know, 50 days, if you're already pre approved with your lender, and they have all your documents by the time we finish renovating the home, the appraisals lined up, and you could be in and out of these private loans in about 90 days. That love that depends on the lending side, that you're giving the lender what they need. But ideally you want to be in these things about 90 to 120 days. So $80,000 loan at 12% that $800 a month. So if you're in it for 90 days, 800 times 320, 700 plus the loan origination fee. But that's how you do it. That's the you're just borrowing money to finance the acquisition, the rehab and the refinance   Keith Weinhold  32:03   that is an option for you if you don't have the cash here to come in with these burr strategy properties. Alex, tell us more about it. Really, what I would like to know is, when an investor gets their appraisal, their after repair value, how many want to sell it for a profit, and how many want to hold it with a tenant for long term income   Alex Craig  32:26   so far, zero. Want to sell it for a profit. If you're all in it for add and then you're selling for 100 once you sell it, there are other fees involved. You got to hire a realtor. Right now is a great time to hold it's a slow real estate market. I don't think Little Rock from an aspect, is where home ownership is down. I think that's a nationwide thing. So I think if you're going into this, you certainly want to look at it from perspective. This is a buy and hold. I don't think this is the best market to get into to buy something. Flip it with a in the example, we use a $20,000 margin with buyer concessions, realtor commissions. That's a lot of work involved. And let's just say it did work out. You sold it for 100 but you had to pay 2% closing in an agent fee, and you got some holding cost. Let's just say you netted 8000 that might be good for a six month return, but I feel like there's a lot of risk. I feel like our job as what we do for our clients, is to minimize risk. So someone came and said, Hey, I want to flip it. I would say, Well, I don't think it's the best market for it right now. I think you want to get into this buy and hold.   Keith Weinhold  33:29   Yes, Alex has been doing this for a long time, and he's a specific expert right there in that local market. Buy and hold is a strategy that most likely makes sense. And he also strongly recommends pay cash if possible, instead of using that 12% short term private lending option, like he mentioned before, because that can cut out about four to 5k worth of transactional cost. And then if you do buy and hold what Alex and his company offer there in Little Rock is essentially a cash flow boost, 0% management fee in year one and only 4% in year two. So that gives you some extra cash flow runway as well. And Alex, before I ask you if you have any last thoughts, I want to announce to you the audience, that we have a live event virtually next week, on July 17, at 8pm eastern for Little Rock BRRRRproperties that Alex is CO hosting with our investment coach, Naresh, where you can find these bird deals in this cash flowing market. In Little Rock you'll see actual bird deals recently completed with full breakdowns of their purchase prices, sort of these case studies, where you can see some real numbers and what the rehab budgets are and what the actual timelines were, and what the refi outcomes were like, and explore BRRRR ready properties that are currently available to own, if you so choose, on this upcoming live event that you can attend from the comfort of your own home. Learn the full process, from acquisition to renovation to property management to the financing of them, and again, everything is all handled by local experts, so that you don't have to live with the nightmare of remotely managing contractors, which I couldn't imagine doing. So whether you're a first time investor or you're scaling your portfolio, this is your chance to get boots on the ground, insight and a proven road map to burr success and really one of the most accessible markets in the country. Again, Alex here is CO hosting the event along with GRE investment coach, Naresh Vissa. It is a free, live virtual event again next week, Thursday, July 17, at 8pm Eastern. Sign up is open now at gre webinars.com it ought to be great. Alex, teaming with local experts like you has been of real benefit to our audience. Do you have any last thoughts about either Little Rock or burrs or the events that you're going to co host with our audience next week?   Alex Craig  35:57   So here's my last thought, as you were, you know, kind of concluding and I was reviewing what we had talked about. And one of the questions we get sometimes it's a fair question. It's like, well, if this is such a great deal, why don't you keep all the deals? So we hear that from time to time, and the simple answer is, we do. We do keep a lot of deals, and we're buying more real estate now, like I said, I feel like it's the easiest time to get into real estate. So we do, we do keep a lot. We're building a very large portfolio right now, but the house flipping to investors is just another business model that we have. And Property Management too. And we love property management, and we love building investor relationships. We've had a lot of investors we've had been with us since day one that we've developed really tight relationships with. So yes, we do keep a lot of the properties, and we sell properties too, and we and helps us build our management company, which you don't hear too many people say this, but we actually love property management. That's a hard thing to love, but we actually like it.   Keith Weinhold  36:54   That is more weird than Tom wheelwright loving taxes, perhaps, but Right. But I want to deal with somebody that really loves what they're doing, especially when they're protecting our asset and probably more importantly, when it comes to property management, protecting our time. So that's right, Alex, well, our viewers and listeners are really looking forward to it next week, again, that live event Thursday, July 17, at 8pm Eastern is something that you can sign up for now at grewebinars.com. Alex, we're looking forward to it next week.   Alex Craig  37:27   Bye, Keith, thank you.   Keith Weinhold  37:34   Oh yeah. Terrific overview on why the burr strategy can be so profitable. And our event next week. Now, when you rent your primary residence, which you would typically do in a high cost area, and then you own rental property elsewhere, typically a low cost area, do you know what that's called? Yeah, there is a name for that. Last week we spoke to two listener guests in California that are doing just that. That is called rentvesting. And yes, Little Rock is surely a popular low cost market for rentvesting. I have been on the ground myself in Little Rock with Alex's associate to do an on the ground tour of properties. There you want to tap into a system where you've got the guiding hand of both experience and belief. That's what you're doing here. As like he said, Alex personally owns 75 doors there. That is belief, and he's been doing this for out of area investors for 15 years. That's the experience part real proof of concept at next week's event, you'll be introduced to this same system where you can lean on their team for acquisition, renovation and management. Little Rock has an MSA population of about 770,000 but I think more importantly today, savvy investors are conscientious of keeping their expenses down, and for good reason, since they've been up all over the place. Now, the purchase price is 140 to 160k for these BRRRR optimized single family rentals. Remember that we used 100k just for ease of an example there, usually when you buy income property, you're really in at close to 25% of the purchase price when you add up the down payment and closing costs, but this way, you're in for just about half of that at 10 to 15% another low expense is that property tax, statewide, Arkansas Property Tax is just 610 of 1% so that's half the national average. And then your management expense is definitely going to be low for the first two years, because it is 0% in year one and 4% in year two. And these are properties that you can actually be pretty proud of. You'll learn more about this. Scope of work with a renovation on the webinar, often granite countertops in the kitchen is a live, remote event. So this means that you can have any of your questions answered in real time. Should you have them? As you can imagine, demand is high for these properties, and this is a chance to get connected directly with the team that makes it happen. We might never get Alex on an event like this again, and is co hosted with our GRE investment coach, Naresh. It's next week. It's free, Thursday, July 17, at 8pm Eastern, 5pm Pacific. Sign up now, or your future self might not be able to forgive yourself. You can do that now at grewebinars.com Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 3  40:56   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  41:19   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access and it's got pay walls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now just text. 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