The Learning Laborers

58 - Music, Scripture, and Holy Week w/ Poor Bishop Hooper

This special Holy Week episode features an interview with Jesse Roberts from the band Poor Bishop Hooper. Jesse and his wife Leah have been making music and ministering together since 2013. All of their music is deeply rooted in the Bible, and their corpus of work represents an immensely rich gift to the Church. As such, we've interspersed some of their work throughout the episode for your enjoyment.In their conversation with Jesse, Denver and Taylor ask about his experience creating scriptural music with his wife. They dig especially into the history and process of making the EveryPsalm project as well as the Golgotha album (14 Stations of the Cross dramatized through original songs). They also pick Jesse's brain about the role of art in society, in the church, and in the hard seasons of life. Poor Bishop Hooper performs their Golgotha album all over the midwest every Lenten season. If you are in the Kansas City area, be sure to check whether they are hosting a Golgotha experience near you this week! 00:00 Holy Week Intro00:24 Psalm One Performance03:21 Meet Jesse Roberts04:03 Origins of Poor Bishop Hooper06:24 Golgotha Stations Beginnings10:44 Touring and Partnering Churches12:49 Band Name Explained15:58 Psalm Twenty Five Song17:54 Why Art Matters22:45 Every Psalm Project27:08 Writing Psalms Weekly32:17 Golgotha Visual Art34:42 Artist Jeremy Collaboration36:43 Prophecy Driven Albums37:59 Art That Teaches Worship39:05 Prison Book Impact44:15 Lent And Suffering Focus48:41 Designing Darkness And Space53:33 Shifting Narrator Perspectives57:04 New Record Lonely Encounters01:00:45 Fresh Insights Over Time01:08:50 Advice For Ministry Artists01:13:32 Artists As Cultural Seers01:15:09 Final Blessing And Praise

57 - Pontius Pilate: Power, Pressure, and the Trial of Christ

As we draw closer to Holy Week, Matt and Taylor devote an episode to the trial of Jesus before Pontius Pilate. Matthew details the importance of this episode in the story of the Gospels and also explains why Pilate is so prominent in Scripture and later tradition. Have you ever noticed that Pilate is mentioned not just in all four Gospels, but also in Acts, 1 Timothy, and the Nicene Creed? What's more, there have been a whole host of different portrayals of this Roman governor across history. From Josephus to Dante to the Chosen, he is one of the most nuanced and varied characters in Christian tradition.But how do the Gospels actually portray Pilate? And what does this tell us about the character and experience of Jesus? Matthew gives us a fresh take on these very important questions in this episode of the Learning Laborers.Recommended Resources:Pontius Pilate in History and Interpretation (Helen Bond)The Trials of Jesus by Paul BarnettDon't forget to rate and subscribe to the Learning Laborers, and also check out our new Substack!

56 - Ritual and Leviticus with Dru Johnson

The Learning Laborers hosts a conversation about Leviticus with Dr. Dru Johnson. Dru frames Leviticus as forming God’s people through embodied, communal practices that keep God’s presence among them and train them for justice and righteousness. In other words, it is not simply a “tech manual” for carrying out sacrifices and other rituals unfamiliar to us today. Rather, it continues to speak to thoughtful Christians through its beautiful structure and visceral imagery.If you have questions about why Leviticus matters, how we should read it today, and how it helps us understand Jesus' life and death, then tune in! Welcome to the wonderful world of ritual!Resources:Understanding Biblical Law by Dru JohnsonA Journey through the World of Leviticus by Mark ScarlataLeviticus by Jay SklarThe Sacrifice of Jesus by Christian Eberhart00:00 What Leviticus Is About00:39 Podcast Welcome01:35 Meet Dru Johnson06:27 Why Study Leviticus13:26 Big Idea of Leviticus21:19 Purity and Sacrifice29:11 Atonement and Mystery38:11 God Wants Communion39:56 Slaves and Beloved40:59 Skin in the Game43:03 Beauty of Leviticus46:03 Jesus and Torah47:21 Bootcamp Rituals54:16 Ritual Worldview59:40 Jesus and Sacrifice01:05:56 Priests and Accountability01:13:01 Resources and Wrap Up

55 - Why Children’s Ministry Matters with Dr. Teresa Roberts

Matt, Taylor, and Denver welcome Dr. Teresa Roberts (professor at Ozark Christian College) to discuss why children’s ministry is vital to a healthy church.Roberts argues that the most significant formation happens in the first 13 years of life, making the local church an essential partner - alongside parents - in building a strong foundation of faith and serving as an extended family for children. The conversation covers childhood development (including concrete vs. abstract thinking and how young children process Bible stories), the importance of careful, responsible teaching and vocabulary, and how children also disciple adults through curiosity and theological questions. Roberts critiques common curriculum trends from the past 20–30 years, including entertainment-driven programming, theme-based teaching that forces Bible stories to fit, and behaviorism that bypasses the character of God. She emphasizes asking, “What does this story teach about the character of God?” and highlights the value of live teaching over video-based lessons. We also discuss how to handle difficult biblical stories in age-appropriate ways, the need for children’s and student ministries to coordinate what is taught when, and other topics related to children's ministry.Follow The Learning Laborers on Substack!Support us on Patreon.Check out these recommended resources:Raising Disciples: Guiding Your Kids Into a Faith of Their Own by Teresa RobertsThe Bible Story Handbook by John Walton & Kim Walton00:00 Welcome Back + Why Children’s Ministry Matters (More Than ‘Goldfish’)02:09 Volunteer Shortage & A Call to Action for the Church04:16 Kids Today: A Different World (Tech, Social Media, Discipling Across Generations)05:46 Meet Dr. Theresa Roberts: Children’s Discipleship Expert08:30 Jesus Welcomes Children: The Biblical Case for Prioritizing Kids Ministry10:05 The First 13 Years: Research, Parents, and the Church as Extended Family14:20 Faith Stories from the Hosts: Raised in Church vs. Coming to Christ Later17:32 How Kids Think: Development, Concrete vs. Abstract, and Careful Theology24:32 Kids as the Church Now: Curiosity, Questions, and Mutual Discipleship30:05 From Knowing About God to Knowing God: Worship, Wonder, and Hearing the Spirit33:55 Identity in the Teen Years: Imago Dei as a Lifelong Anchor34:38 Beyond Indoctrination: Teaching Kids to Listen for God in Prayer36:27 Kids Are Watching: Modeling Scripture, Prayer, and Faith at Home38:30 Children’s Ministry Hot Take: When Curriculum Becomes Entertainment & Behaviorism44:05 Fixing the Focus: ‘Discover God’ and Live Teaching Over Screens47:01 Handling the Hard Bible Stories: Age-Appropriate Truth Without Sheltering55:22 Middle School Boys & Small Groups: Build Trust Through Play and Presence01:02:53 Final Charge: Be Intentional—Jesus Welcomes the Little Ones

54 - Persecution and Suffering in 1 Peter: A Historical and Pastoral Examination

In this episode of the Learning Laborers Podcast, Taylor hosts a conversation with Dr. Matthew McBirth on the themes of persecution and suffering faced by the recipients of 1 Peter. They delve into the historical and sociological contexts of early Christians, discussing how their faith led to social and cultural conflict. The episode surveys scriptural references and relevant historical background to offer nuanced insights into whether these early Christians experienced formal persecution. The discussion addresses the importance of understanding this context for modern-day believers and leaders, providing guidance on pastoral care and the appropriate Christian response to suffering and hostility. Resources mentioned:And Upon This RockChristian Persecution in Antiquity1 Peter by Williams and Horrell1 Peter by Karen Jobes1 Peter by Dennis Edwards1 Peter by Scot McKnight1 Peter by Craig KeenerTaylor's Substack00:00 Introduction to the Learning Laborers Podcast00:53 Opening Remarks and Episode Introduction01:24 Reflecting on the Past Decade02:07 Exploring First Peter's Political Instructions03:14 Understanding the Suffering of First Peter's Recipients04:41 The Social and Familial Conflicts Faced by Early Christians05:57 Household Codes and Christian Practices07:15 Public and Private Suffering in the Ancient World11:12 Distinguishing Suffering from Persecution17:25 The Importance of Contextualizing Early Christian Suffering23:41 Debating the Nature of Persecution in First Peter31:34 Introduction to the Discussion32:56 Exploring Historical Context33:26 The Role of Amanuensis in Letter Writing35:07 Persecution in the Roman Empire38:10 Pliny and Trajan Correspondence42:33 Persecution Narratives in Acts46:45 Economic and Religious Interconnections49:59 Peter's Pastoral Instructions53:26 Modern Reflections on Persecution01:00:10 Conclusion and Recommendations