Scaling UP! H2O

433 Legionella Investigations and LIDO Technology

What if preventing Legionella outbreaks wasn’t about adding more chemicals, but removing what the bacteria needs to survive? In this episode of Scaling UP! H2O, host Trace Blackmore talks with Dr. David Krause, Certified Industrial Hygienist, toxicologist, and founder of HC3, about his groundbreaking approach — LIDO (Legionella Inhibition by Deoxygenation). Legionella on the Rise  Dr. Krause has investigated high-profile Legionella outbreaks and seen firsthand how current prevention strategies often fall short. Despite ASHRAE 188 standards, CMS requirements, and increasing water management plan adoption, Legionella cases continue to climb — often due to infrastructure issues, insufficient monitoring, and a lack of evidence-based guidance.  Inside an Outbreak Investigation  From the first call at 4:30 on a Friday to the coordination between local health departments, state agencies, and the CDC, Krause explains the rigorous (and sometimes chaotic) process of pinpointing outbreak sources. He also reveals why public communication can make or break an outbreak response.  Introducing LIDO Technology  Rather than relying solely on chemical disinfection, LIDO uses gas transfer membrane contactors to remove dissolved oxygen from hot water systems. Legionella can’t thrive below 0.3 ppm DO — meaning systems treated with LIDO create an inhospitable environment for growth. Krause shares lab results, pilot project findings, and how this approach could extend system life while reducing corrosion and byproducts. The Bigger Picture  This episode goes beyond technology — it’s about rethinking water management, building better outbreak communication, and challenging industry norms. Whether you’re a facility manager, water treater, or public health professional, Krause’s insights will shift the way you think about Legionella control.   Prevention starts with awareness — and action. Dr. Krause’s work shows there’s more than one path to safer water systems, and innovation comes from asking better questions.  Listen now to discover how Legionella investigations unfold and how LIDO technology could reshape prevention. Download the free discussion guide located at Connect with the Guest section, and start the conversation with your team.  Stay engaged, keep learning, and continue scaling up your knowledge!    Timestamps   02:24 - Trace Blackmore shares an Introduction to Legionella Awareness Month and the value of ANSI/ASHRAE 188, ASSE 12080 certification  08:17 - Water You Know with James McDonald  11:52 - Interview with Dr. David Krause and his background in public health, toxicology, and Legionella Investigations   16:36 - Why cases are rising despite standards, plans, and certifications  21:39 - The significance of Legionella pneumophila serogroup 1 vs. other species  26:38 - Media influence on outbreak perception and the need for accurate communication  31:15 - Business risks of not having a water management plan  41:48 - How LIDO works: removing dissolved oxygen to prevent Legionella growth  48:41 - Current pilot projects and operational considerations    Quotes  “Legionella is an obligate aerobe – without dissolved oxygen, it simply can’t grow.” “An ounce of prevention is worth ten pounds of cure when it comes to water management plans.” “Once an outbreak starts, testing becomes your life.” “We have so much information on waterborne pathogens – the challenge is making a habit of learning the next thing.”   Connect with Dr. David Krause Phone: 850-766-1938   Email: dkrause@HC3FL.com   Website: http://www.hc3fl.com/   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drdavidkrause/     Guest Resources Mentioned   AIHA – Recognition, Evaluation, and Control of Legionella in Building Water Systems (2nd Edition, 2022)   ACGIH – Bioaerosols: Assessment and Control (Red Book, Updated Edition)   IDSA's 'Increasing Incidence of Legionellosis in the United States, 1990–2005: Changing Epidemiologic Trends'   Legionella and the Role of Dissolved Oxygen in Its Growth and Inhibition: A Review by J. David Krause   Journal of Occupational and Environmental Hygiene Controlling Legionella pneumophila growth in hot water systems by reducing dissolved oxygen levels by J. David Krause   CSTE – National Legionellosis Case Definitions (2020)  LIDO: A Revolutionary Approach to Legionella Management    Scaling UP! H2O Resources Mentioned  AWT (Association of Water Technologies)  Scaling UP! H2O Academy video courses  Submit a Show Idea  Scaling UP! H2O’s Legionella Resources Library   ASHRAE Standard 188 (Legionellosis: Risk Management for Building Water Systems)  ASHRAE-188-2021-Summary-Technical-Bulletin_01.pdf    Water You Know with James Question: Despite all the training, engineering controls, policies, regulations, laws, and direction, at the end of the day, who is most responsible for your personal safety?    2025 Events for Water Professionals  Check out our Scaling UP! H2O Events Calendar where we’ve listed every event Water Treaters should be aware of by clicking HERE.     

432 Water Management Plans: Evolving Standards and Best Practices with Matt Freije

"Just because you have a water management plan doesn’t mean it’s working."  That’s the hard truth Matt Freije, founder and CEO of HC Info, delivers in this episode of Scaling UP! H2O. As the architect behind LAMPS — a leading cloud-based platform for water management programs — Matt joins Trace Blackmore to explore the critical evolution of water safety, compliance standards, and real-world implementation challenges facing facilities in 2025.   Beyond the Binder: Water Management Plans That Actually Work  In an era of heightened awareness and shifting regulations, simply checking the compliance box is no longer enough. Matt walks us through the CDC data and ASHRAE findings that make a strong case for active, ongoing water management — not just documentation. Drawing from recent outbreak investigations, he explains why implementation, not content, is often the root failure.  Trace and Matt discuss the widespread misconception that water management plans guarantee zero Legionella. They also address the real barriers preventing facilities from taking action — from budget limitations to internal roadblocks — and what water professionals can do to influence smarter, risk-based decisions. Regulatory Pressure, AI Integration, and What’s Coming Next  With ASHRAE 514, AAMI ST108, and ASSE 12080 gaining ground, the water industry is seeing increased scrutiny, especially in healthcare and hospitality facilities. Matt outlines how these evolving standards are transforming expectations and forcing a shift in accountability.  The conversation takes a forward-looking turn as they explore the power of AI and aggregated analytics to optimize pathogen control. With 10,000 buildings in the LAMPS system, HC Info is preparing to offer data that could shape public health outcomes nationwide — a move that could redefine how we benchmark performance and interpret Legionella test data at scale. Culture, Purpose, and Long-Term Vision  As a mechanical engineer with an epidemiology background, Matt also reflects on the human side of leadership — from building a values-driven team to embracing his faith as a cornerstone of decision-making. His message for water treaters is clear: “Either do it well or don’t do it.”  For facilities leaders, his advice is to stop fearing complexity and start leveraging the tools available — because water management done right can improve not just compliance, but health outcomes, asset longevity, and operational resilience. Conclusion  This episode is a masterclass in how to future-proof your water safety strategy. With actionable insights, emerging technologies, and a clear call to accountability, Matt Freije reminds us that smart water management is both a technical responsibility and a moral imperative.  Listen to the full conversation to understand how new standards, digital tools, and intentional leadership are shaping the future of water safety. Stay engaged, keep learning, and continue scaling up your knowledge!    Timestamps   04:50 – Trace reflects on feedback from listeners who learned the origins of Legionella and how re-telling important stories is essential in water treatment education  06:49 - Upcoming Events for Water Treatment Professionals 12:44 – Water You Know with James McDonald  14:14 – Introduction with Matt Freije returning guest   15:46 – Biggest Challenges in Water Management Plans Today  19:47 – Regulatory Evolution: ASHRAE 514, ASC 12080, and Joint Commission Inspections  44:14 – The Document is Not the Plan: Why Systems Must Be Implemented  48:08 – Impact and Adoption: Why Water Management Plans Truly Matter    Quotes  “Either do it well, or don’t do it. A half-hearted water management plan can do more harm than good.”   “Most facilities still don’t have a water management plan — and many don’t even know what one is.”  “Just because you had the conversation once doesn’t mean it stuck. With Legionella, repeating the important things is critical.”  “Analytics should make the problem obvious — you shouldn’t need a PhD to interpret what your water data is telling you.”    Connect with Matt Freije  Email: mfreije@hcinfo.com Website: Legionella Water Management Plans  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattfreije    Guest Resources Mentioned   HC Info  ASHRAE Standard 188 (Legionellosis: Risk Management for Building Water Systems)   ASSE 12080 Certification: Professional Qualifications for Legionella Water Safety and Management Personnel  Good Energy: The Surprising Connection Between Metabolism and Limitless Health by Casey Means  The Boys in the Boat: Nine Americans and Their Epic Quest for Gold at the 1936 Berlin Olympics by Daniel James Brown   John Adams by David McCullough (Audiobook)   John Adams by David McCullough (Paperback)    Keep Your Love On: Connection Communication and Boundaries by Danny Silk (Paperback)  The Bible (KJV)     Scaling UP! H2O Resources Mentioned  AWT (Association of Water Technologies)  Scaling UP! H2O Academy video courses  Submit a Show Idea  The Rising Tide Mastermind   Legionella Resources Library  ANSI/AAMI ST108:2023 Water for the Processing of Medical Services   ASSE 12080 Training & Certification, Get certified to the ASSE/IAPMO/ANSI 12080 Standard: Professional Qualifications Standard for Legionella Water Safety and Management Personnel  CDC's  Key Findings: Outbreaks and Water Management Gaps (2015–2019 review of Legionnaires’ disease investigations   083 The One About Water Management Plans   431 Legionella Awareness Month Kickoff!    Water You Know with James McDonald  Question: What do we call the formation and subsequent collapse of vapor-filled bubbles in water due to rapid pressure changes?    2025 Events for Water Professionals  Check out our Scaling UP! H2O Events Calendar where we’ve listed every event Water Treaters should be aware of by clicking HERE.       

431 Legionella Awareness Month Kickoff!

Are You Ready to Talk About Legionella?  Every August, we dedicate an entire month to a topic that touches public health, liability, and the core of what water treaters do — yet it’s still misunderstood by many: Legionella.  In this episode, Trace Blackmore kicks off Legionella Awareness Month by returning to the basics. Where did Legionella get its name? What makes it dangerous? And why is there still confusion between a water treatment program and a water management plan?  Tracing It Back: History, Misconceptions, and Missed Conversations  Trace opens with the 1976 American Legion outbreak in Philadelphia — the moment the medical and water treatment worlds collided. He explains how the bacteria was identified, how the term Legionella pneumophila came to be, and how Pontiac Fever and Legionnaires’ Disease represent two ends of the same pathogenic spectrum.  But more importantly, he challenges us to think critically about the language we use. Saying “Legionella” casually — without understanding whether we’re referring to the bacteria, the illness, or the implications of a test result — can lead to major breakdowns in communication between service providers and facility managers.  A Water Treatment Program Is Not a Legionella Plan  Many professionals know how to deliver great chemical treatment. But too often, when a Legionella test comes back positive, the customer assumes the water treater is responsible. This episode explains how that misunderstanding happens—and how to prevent it through proactive, well-framed conversations.  Trace walks through why seasonal testing is the bare minimum, what makes a good water management team, and why documentation and pre-approved action plans are essential for clarity and peace of mind when results come in.  He also introduces tools like the CDC Legionella Toolkit, ASHRAE 188, and ASSE 12080—resources every industrial water professional should know and use.  The Systems at Risk — And Why It’s Not Just Cooling Towers  Trace breaks down the environments where Legionella thrives cooling towers, stagnant pipes, dead legs, hot water systems with low temperatures, decorative fountains, humidifiers, and spas. He highlights why biofilm protection matters, why heat isn’t always enough, and how mixing valves and plumbing design can support both safety and scald prevention.  You’ll hear how real-world scenarios unfold—and how one positive test, without the right planning, can lead to panic, blame, and liability risk for everyone involved.  Legionella isn't just a technical issue — it's a human one. Whether you’re in the field, managing accounts, or advising clients, this episode offers practical tools and powerful reminders for having the conversations that count.  The professionals who lead these conversations are the ones building trust, avoiding risk, and elevating the industry.   Listen to the full episode and explore the Legionella Resource Library at Legionella Resources. Stay engaged, keep learning, and continue scaling up your knowledge!    Timestamps    02: 12 – Trace opens the episode with an overview of Legionella Awareness Month  08:47 – Legionella vs. Legionellosis  15:51 – The Miscommunication That Hurts Trust  27:13 – Where Legionella Hides  28:14 – Key Resources  33:22 – Water You Know with James McDonald  34:47– Upcoming Events for Water Treatment Professionals    Quotes  “Cooling towers are guilty until proven innocent — and that’s how the industry sees them.”  “Legionella is not your responsibility unless you've set the right expectations in writing.”  “Don’t wait until a test is positive to have the conversation. By then, emotions are already high.”  “ASHRAE 188 doesn’t prescribe. It describes it. It’s up to us to translate it for each system.”  “Education isn't just about reading guidelines. It’s about knowing how to guide your clients.”    Connect with Scaling UP! H2O  Submit a show idea: Submit a Show Idea  LinkedIn: in/traceblackmore/  YouTube: @ScalingUpH2O    Click HERE to Download Episode’s Discussion Guide    Scaling UP! H2O Resources Mentioned  AWT (Association of Water Technologies)  Scaling UP! H2O Academy video courses  Submit a Show Idea  CDC's "Toolkits"  CDC's "Toolkit: Developing a Legionella Water Management Program"  CDC's "Toolkit: Controlling Legionella in Common Sources of Exposure"  ASHRAE 188-2021 “Legionellosis: Risk Management for Building Water Systems”  CMS Mandates Water Management Programs in Healthcare Facilities  CMS QSO 17 – 30 Memorandum   ASSE/IAPMO/ANSI/CAN Series 12000-2024 (Download)  ASSE’s Infection Control and Water Quality  ANSI/AAMI ST108:2023 Water for the Processing of Medical Services    CDC’s Routine Legionella Testing Figure 1: A multifactorial approach to performance indicator interpretation  World Health Organization (WHO) 'Legionellosis'     Water You Know with James McDonald  Question: Why is barium chloride used in the standard Hydroxide Alkalinity test?    2025 Events for Water Professionals  Check out our Scaling UP! H2O Events Calendar where we’ve listed every event Water Treaters should be aware of by clicking HERE.   

430 PFAS Regulations and Technologies with Brian Liotta

 “The winning combination will include not just removal—but real destruction of PFAS.” - Brian Liotta PFAS: The Invisible Challenge Reshaping Water Treatment  PFAS chemicals are everywhere—from consumer products to our bloodstream. But as regulations tighten, water treatment professionals must now evolve faster than ever. In this episode of Scaling UP! H2O, host Trace Blackmore speaks with Brian Liotta, Director of Marketing and Product Development at USALCO, about the shifting regulatory landscape and the advanced technologies being developed to monitor, remove, and destroy PFAS compounds. From Industry Curiosity to Regulatory Urgency  Brian candidly shares how he “fell into” the world of PFAS, sparked by client questions and his work with AWT’s Wastewater Subcommittee. Over time, he became one of the industry's clearest voices on how PFAS is transforming everything from chemical manufacturing to compliance practices. In this conversation, Brian breaks down the science, the timeline, and the technologies professionals need to understand—whether they’re manufacturers, consultants, or field engineers. Testing, Treatment, and Destruction: What's Working and What's Coming  Testing for PFAS isn’t straightforward. Brian outlines why high-performance liquid chromatography and mass spectrometry are still standard, despite the lack of affordable, field-ready kits. Then, he walks us through the big three: granular activated carbon, ion exchange, and membrane filtration—explaining how each performs and what their operational limits are. He also introduces lesser-known but emerging strategies like foam fractionation, electrostatic concentration, and supercritical water oxidation—some of which could shape the next generation of end-to-end PFAS solutions.  The Legal Front: EPA Rules, State Action, and the Chevron Doctrine  The conversation turns toward the regulatory environment: from the EPA’s national drinking water standard of 4 parts per trillion to individual state actions in California, Maine, New York, and others. Brian unpacks the implications of the Chevron Doctrine being overturned and why this legal shift may slow federal implementation but accelerate state-led policies. What It Means for Water Treatment Professionals  Whether you're new to industrial water or managing a large portfolio, Brian delivers a simple but powerful takeaway: understand the regulations, study the technologies, and provide solutions. With PFAS-related services on the rise, the opportunity for technical leadership and business growth is clear—but only for those who do their homework and move early.  Conclusion  PFAS isn’t just a regulatory buzzword—it’s a catalyst for innovation. As Brian notes, the most successful professionals will be those who bridge the gap between evolving science and real-world application. This episode equips you with a deeper understanding of what’s at stake and how to lead your customers through uncertainty with confidence. Stay engaged, keep learning, and continue scaling up your knowledge!    Timestamps   10:35 – Water You Know with James McDonald  12:52 – Upcoming Events for Water Treatment Professionals   18:06 – Interview with Brian Liotta Director of Marketing & Product Development of USALCO   22:15 — What is PFAS?   26:00 — EPA’s new 4 parts per trillion PFAS drinking water standard and what it means 32:06 — Treatment technologies: GAC, ion exchange, reverse osmosis, and their pros and cons 37:32 — Emerging innovations: foam fractionation, electrostatic concentration, and plasma-based destruction 42:00 — State-by-state PFAS regulations and implications of the Chevron Doctrine ruling 46:20 — Advice to new water professionals: understand the regulations, then bring the right solutions   Quotes  “Regulation drives our business. If you're not paying attention, you're not preparing your customers.” “PFAS are in our water, our products, even our bloodstream. This isn’t hype—it’s science catching up.” “Some of the smartest people I know ask a lot of questions. Curiosity is how you become valuable.”  “We’re seeing companies build end-to-end treatment trains. That’s where the innovation is happening.”    Connect with Brian Liotta  Phone: 15102747326  Email: bliotta@usalco.com   Website: Water Treatment Chemicals - Baltimore, MD | USALCO  LinkedIn: Brian Liotta | LinkedIn  Click HERE to Download Episode’s Discussion Guide    Guest Resources Mentioned   Interstate Technology & Regulatory Council (ITRC) ITRC Resources Guide   ITRC PFAS (Per- and Polyfluoroalkyl Substances)   Join ITRC PFAS Team  EPA PFAS Resource Center  Battelle PFAS ANNIHILATOR® Destruction Technology  Measure What Matters: How Google, Bono, and the Gates Foundation Rock the World with OKRs  This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession by Daniel J. Levitin  Brooks: The Biography of Brooks Robinson  EPA National Primary Drinking Water Regulation for PFAS (2023)   Chevron Doctrine Overturn (2024) – Supreme Court Decision  EPA Announces It Will Keep Maximum Contaminant Levels for PFOA, PFOS   EPA’s Per- and Polyfluoroalkyl Substances (PFAS) in Sewage Sludge  EPA's Summary of the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA)  MIT News ‘ A new sensor detects harmful “forever chemicals” in drinking water ‘  AWWA’s Journal: Treating PFAS-Laden Waste Using Aqueous Electrostatic Concentration   California adopts health-protective goals for forever chemicals in drinking water  Colorado PFAS Restrictions  Maine PFAS   Maryland PFAS   Maryland PFAS in Biosolids Regulatory Update – August 20, 2024    Scaling UP! H2O Resources Mentioned  AWT (Association of Water Technologies)  Scaling UP! H2O Academy video courses  Submit a Show Idea  The Rising Tide Mastermind Ep 410 Unleash Your Pricing Power: Casey Brown’s ‘Fearless Pricing’ Revolutionizes Business Value  Ep 408 Pinks and Blues: The Power of Processes  Fearless Pricing: Ignite Your Team, Own Your Value, and Command What You Deserve by Casey Brown    Water You Know with James McDonald  Question: If you place a small amount of concentrated hydrochloric acid on a deposit sample and it bubbles, what is this likely to indicate?    2025 Events for Water Professionals  Check out our Scaling UP! H2O Events Calendar where we’ve listed every event Water Treaters should be aware of by clicking HERE.   

429 The Life and Career of Jim Lukanich

“You can’t learn it all in one year. You can’t even learn it all in ten.” That single statement from Jim Lukanich captures the spirit of this unforgettable episode.  Returning to the Scaling UP! H2O Podcast for the first time since Episode 10, Jim Lukanich joins host Trace Blackmore to reflect on a remarkable 44-year career in the water treatment industry. From his early days at U.S. Steel to leading technical innovation at Buckman Laboratories, ChemCal, U.S. Water, and Kurita, Jim has been a force for mentorship, learning, and raising the bar in technical excellence.   Building a Career, One Problem at a Time   Jim walks us through the formative moments of his career — the gritty hands-on learning at US Steel, the cultural differences he encountered at Nalco, and the breakthrough growth and global travel that defined his time at Buckman Labs. He shares how relentless reading, teaching, and real-world problem-solving built the foundation of his expertise. More than just a technical expert, Jim is a storyteller. His accounts of teaching microbiology in Brazil pre-internet — with nothing but overhead projectors and thousands of peer-reviewed articles — highlight just how much dedication the field once required (and still does).   Educator, Mentor, Technologist   This episode shines as Jim reveals his unexpected passion for teaching and how that eventually connected him with the Association of Water Technologies (AWT). From correcting pronunciation quirks to co-writing the Certified Water Technologist (CWT) exam, Jim’s teaching legacy spans thousands of students and professionals around the world. Listeners will appreciate Jim’s honest take on what separates industry veterans who grow from those who stagnate — and the importance of actively seeking knowledge beyond routine routes.   Beyond Retirement: Knowledge that Lasts   Now officially retired, Jim isn’t finished contributing. He shares future plans for limited consulting and speaks candidly about what it means to truly mentor someone — and what many water professionals are missing out on if they don’t. This is more than a career retrospective; it's a call to honor the past by preparing for the future — with integrity, curiosity, and generosity.   Conclusion: Wisdom Worth Passing Down  Jim’s impact isn’t measured just by how many systems he’s treated or miles he’s flown — but by the lives he’s touched and the minds he’s sharpened. For any professional looking to improve technical depth, leadership, or mentoring, this episode is a must-listen. Listen now to learn from one of the water industry's most respected mentors. Explore more episodes, sharpen your skills, and consider becoming the mentor you once needed. Stay engaged, keep learning, and continue scaling up your knowledge!    Timestamps    03:44 - Trace shares some Water facts and World Vision 6k Recap 06:40 - Water You Know with James McDonald  07:04 - Upcoming Events for Water Treatment Professionals   17:30 - Interview with returning guest, Jim Lukanich   24:27 - Jim shares how teaching at Buckman became a passion 45:00 - Learning daily builds deep expertise over time   Quotes  Jim Lukanich: “I’ve read thousands of peer-reviewed technical papers—not the BS in magazines—but real science.”  Jim Lukanich: “You can’t learn it all in a year. You can’t learn it all in 10. I’ve been doing this for 44 years, and I still read technical papers.”  Trace Blackmore: “You were the one who made me want to teach water treatment. You brought energy to technical education.”  Jim Lukanich: “If you’ve been in this industry 20 years and can’t pass the CWT, you stopped learning at year three.”  Jim Lukanich: “Before I fade into oblivion, I want to dump out as much knowledge as I can.”    Connect with Jim Lukanich  LinkedIn: Jim Lukanich | LinkedIn  Click HERE to Download Episode’s Discussion Guide    Guest Resources Mentioned   Dune by Frank Herbert - Audiobook  The Silmarillion by J.R.R. Tolkien    Lee Child’s Jack Reacher Books 1-6 by Lee Child  Never Flinch: A Novel by Stephen King - Audiobook    Scaling UP! H2O Resources Mentioned  AWT (Association of Water Technologies)  Episode 378 Tackling Legionella: Balancing Safety, Sustainability, and Disinfection  Episode 010 The One with Jim Lukanich   Legionella Resources  Industrial Water Week Resources   Industrial Water Week  Scaling UP! H2O Academy video courses  Scaling UP! Nation – Global 6k Donation Drive  Submit a Show Idea  The Rising Tide Mastermind  World Vision     Water You Know with James McDonald   Question: What are the two primary ways heat is rejected by a cooling tower?    2025 Events for Water Professionals  Check out our Scaling UP! H2O Events Calendar where we’ve listed every event Water Treaters should be aware of by clicking HERE.