Recovering Evangelicals

#198 – Peter Enns: How we got the Old Testament

Divine dictation of fully-formed books, or a gradual evolution of texts at the hands of authors, editors, interpreters, redactors, copyists, collectors, ……? This will be the first of several episodes we’re hauling out of our Podcast Archive that are related to how we came to have this collection of books we call the Bible. This week, Dr. Peter Enns gets us started with a look at the origin … and evolution! …. of the Jewish Bible, our “Old Testament”. We’re guessing that many of our listeners will be hearing this perspective for the first time. But hearing this, from a world-class expert, might help you over some serious speedbumps in your faith journey. It certainly did that for me. We’ll hear that the Bible was not dropped out of heaven or whispered into the ears of individual authors (you probably knew that already … but did you have a coherent alternative explanation of where/how it did come?). Instead, it was written, and re-written, and revised, and re-revised by teams of authors over the course of many, many centuries. Yes: re-written and re-revised. And not just by the individual authors, but by multiple teams of editors who worked on the texts centuries after the authors had died. Those later editorial teams took the liberty of not just changing words, but even deleting whole sections, and inserting entirely new ones. Sometimes in response to things they’d learned from other cultures. A perfect example of this would be their understanding of the human soul and the afterlife, which we talked about previously in episodes #6, #7, and #8. Those editors could be just as divinely inspired in what they did, as the authors writing the first drafts of the text. And the life experiences which shaped those authors and editors — as well as the cultural zeitgeists which informed their thinking — would also be part of that divine inspiration process. Learning about these things over the past couple decades has given me a new understanding of the Bible. I no longer see it like the “User’s Manual” for a car, written by the Manufacturer [God] to the User [us] to help them [us] know how to use the Product [us]. Instead, I now see it more like a diary or a notebook, written by humans who captured their thoughts, experiences, the lessons they’d learned, and their personal growth on a subject that was incredibly important to them: God. As always, tell us what you think … For more about Dr. Pete Enns, go to The Bible for Normal People podcast, or listen to our other recent interview with Pete, asking him to tell the story of his own faith deconstruction and the response to that from the Evangelical world. If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like our episode on the origin of the New Testament (episode #81), or on Divine Inspiration (episode #101), or a deep-dive into an Old Testament story of “a Divine command” given to the Israelites to slaughter their own brothers (episode #98). To help grow this podcast, please like, share and post a rating/review at your favorite podcast catcher. Subscribe here to get updates each time a new episode is posted... Subscribe Join our private discussion group at Facebook and our YouTube channel. YouTube Facebook Instagram Twitter Amazon Back to Recovering Evangelicals home-page and the podcast archive

#197 – updating the Exodus and Christian faith

A new understanding of the ancient story of Israel’s exodus out of Egypt leads to a whole new understanding of the Passover … and of the crucifixion! In this episode, Scott and Luke look back on the two recent re-releases — both challenging the traditional “Sunday school version” of the Exodus story — to address a few loose ends: why did we choose those two episodes in particular to re-release? why is the account of the Exodus from Egypt only available in ancient Hebrew literature …. why wouldn’t the countries around Egypt have said anything about this empire-shattering event? if scholars have learned so much about what didn’t happen, and what actually happened, in the Exodus from Egypt, why does that updated version never find its way to the people in the pews and the kids in Sunday School? the many genetic studies which have been done which only find evidence of a continuous gradual mixing of Israelite genes with the surrounding Canaanite genes, rather than a sudden and dramatic replacement of the latter by the former what does a thinking Christian now do with this new understanding of a core element in our theology? in particular, if the Passover comes directly out of the Exodus story, but the latter may have never happened in the way it’s described in the Bible, and if the Passover has nothing to do with atonement for sins, why does Christianity interweave the crucifixion of Jesus so tightly into the Passover story? As always, tell us what you think … If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: Episode #80, with Dr. Aren Maeir, another world-leading Jewish archaeologist, about the origin of the nation of Israel and her new religion; Episode #57, with Dr. Peter Enns, about who wrote the Hebrew Bible; Episode #98, with Dr. Eric Seibert, about a perfect example of humans putting words into God’s mouth (like telling them to kill their enemies); Episode #19, in which we focus on the various ideas about atonement theory. We also highly recommend you read Dr. Richard Friedman’s book Who Wrote the Bible? To help grow this podcast, please like, share and post a rating/review at your favorite podcast catcher. Subscribe here to get updates each time a new episode is posted... Subscribe Join our private discussion group at Facebook and our YouTube channel. YouTube Facebook Instagram Twitter Amazon Back to Recovering Evangelicals home-page and the podcast archive

#196 – The Exodus from Egypt, part 2 (re-release)

Science now makes the Sunday School version of this story no longer tenable, leaving three options for believers: ignore the problem, reject the Bible, or revise one’s theology. The story of “the Exodus” has traditionally been seen to involve millions of Israelites following Moses out of Egypt: this image is derived from a literal reading of the Old Testament, with more than a little help from Cecil B. DeMille’s iconic movie. However, scholars have given us several other versions of this story which are much, MUCH smaller in scale and quite different in many of the details … and which are much more believable, especially given that they’re based on actual data (archaeological; literary; genetic). This puts many believers in a difficult position: setting aside what they see/saw as the Biblical version forces them to devalue the Bible and possibly to reject their faith. In this episode, we talk about why the “Sunday School version” is really no longer tenable, and how to revise one’s theology to accommodate that paradigm shift. Discussion points included: how people respond when they grow up with one version (usually the “Sunday School version” and then later are confronted with a very different one (usually one of the scholar’s versions). “the numbers” that argue against the literal version (the “Sunday School version”): (1) the numbers that the text give us which are just too hard to believe (several million Israelites marching out of Egypt? the logistics for a horde of this tremendous size) (2) the numbers that you’d expect to find if the Sunday School version was historical, but which are nowhere to be found (the trail of dead bodies and garbage; surrounding cultures would have written something about this event) (3) the numbers that we do find which point to a very different version (the Levites as late-comers to Canaan from Egypt; the genetics of the inhabitants of Canaan at that time) the perceived risks of rejecting the Sunday School version of the Exodus story: need to reject the whole Bible (the inerrancy/infallibility problem) need to reject core aspects of Christian faith (if there was no Passover event, then what do we do with Christ’s death on “Passover”) [Black] Liberation Theology resonates profoundly with the Exodus story many listeners gave great feedback to our question: “if you have/had to reject the Sunday School version of this story, what impact would that have on your Christian faith” people feel lied to by Christian leaders who know or should know that the traditional Sunday School version is suspicious the first step in coming to grips with this problem is recognizing that the Old Testament was written by Jews, and to Jews; we can debate the extent to which this on-going in-house conversation is open to us 21st century Westerners. constitutional lawyers and Supreme Court judges are faced with the very same situation when interpreting the US Constitution: either stay absolutely true to the original wording, or see it as a living document that breathes and changes as the American population changes through time and encounters new situations we also see the same thing in the four corners of the Wesleyan quadrilateral: two corners that are wooden and unbending (scripture and church tradition) are balanced out by the flexibility of the other two corners (reason and church experience) Fundamentalists and Literalists already occasionally take scripture non-literally whether they realize it or not (the sun orbiting the earth? Hell is underground? the sky is a hard dome holding back an ocean of water? our soul resides in our liver?) the ancient Israelites and 1st century Christians fully believed that God needs blood to absolve sin; but many Christians today call into question Penal Substitutionary Atonement and God’s need for blood As always, tell us your thoughts on this topic … If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like Episode #57 (the writing of the Old Testament), #101 (Divine Inspiration), #112 (Passover as the context for Christ’s death on the cross), #19 and #20 (Atonement Theory), #15 (how ancient Jews understood things so differently from us today). Movie promotional image from Paramount Pictures (and modified). To help grow this podcast, please like, share and post a rating/review at your favorite podcast catcher. Subscribe here to get updates each time a new episode is posted... Subscribe Join our private discussion group at Facebook and our YouTube channel. YouTube Facebook Instagram Twitter Amazon Back to Recovering Evangelicals home-page and the podcast archive

#195 – The Exodus from Egypt, part 1 (re-release)

Although the origin story for Jews, and the foundation for much of Christian theology, many scholars will ask: did it really happen (that way)? Moses leading the newly-born nation of Israel out of slavery in Egypt, wandering through the desert for 40 years, and taking possession of Canaan is an iconic story. Not only is it the central national origin story for Jews, but it also forms the foundation for a great deal of essential Christian theology: the Passover, with its images of lamb’s blood smeared on the front doors to ward off death and judgment, and announce salvation and liberation … the giving of the Ten Commandments and the entire Levitical law … establishing a new religious system … the journey to the Promised Land. These are all themes that are picked up later in the New Testament, and provide the context for Jesus’ mission and death on the cross. For this reason, this story of the Exodus of Israel out of Egypt is a staple for Christian Sunday School curricula and sermons alike. But many modern scholars will ask a very unsettling question: did it really happen? To explore this, we talked to Dr. Richard Elliott Friedman, a scholar of ancient Israelite history with impeccable credentials (Harvard; Oxford; Cambridge; University of Haifa [Israel]; UCSD). Points that we talked about include: Cecil B. DeMille’s 1956 movie The Ten Commandments, with Charlton Heston as Moses, has become the Christian/Western cultural memory of that Old Testament history are Christians guilty of cultural appropriation when they take that entire story and make it their own? what data do we have for that Old Testament history …. in addition to the Old Testament itself, we now have archaeological data and genetic data, but not other literary data from non-Jewish sources there are many Egyptianisms in the Old Testament story (the Hebrew Tabernacle looks like the Battle Tent of Ramses II; the Ark looks like a religious box used in Egyptian parades; ritual practices such as circumcision; sacrifices; brick-making; Egyptian names) there was not one massive exodus, but many small exoduses; people groups were constantly coming and going from Egypt “the Exodus” did happen; it just didn’t happen the way it’s described (it wasn’t two million people leaving all at once) the writing of the Old Testament involved many people (it was not just Moses) and was influenced by a variety of political and religious forces; these include two groups of priests who were more allied with either Moses or with Aaron the laity (the people in the church pews) are decades/centuries behind the scholars when it comes to understanding the origin, editing, and redacting of the Old Testament; Evangelical academics are beginning to “catch up” the nation of Israel was a confederation of different indigenous people groups who were already living in Palestine (including ones who were already coming and going from Egypt over the prior centuries), as well as a group of Levites who left Egypt in some kind of dramatic fashion; it was the latter who re-shaped their own history together with that of the existing people groups, and who then taught that revisionist history to the children until it became national doctrine these various people groups worshipped several gods, including Yahweh (the Midianites and others) and El (Canaanites; Ugarit; Phoenicians) the Levites who came from Egypt joined this confederation much later, and re-shaped the religious practices of this emerging nation of Israel if the “Exodus” and the religious rituals of Israel didn’t happen in the way that we are led to believe from a superficial reading of the book of Exodus, then what do we do with the Passover, which is a ritual that celebrates that Exodus, and which Christians have completely appropriated as the very foundation of their theology (Christ as the Passover Lamb, and his blood shed for our redemption) in the Ancient Near East, atonement required blood As always, tell us your thoughts on this topic … … and check out our archive of previously released episodes, listed chronologically, or thematically, or by guest expert. Find more information about Dr. Richard Elliott Friedman at his personal web-site. If you enjoyed this episode, you may also enjoy Episode #57, in which we interviewed Dr. Peter Enns about the origin and writing of the Old Testament, or Episode #80, in which Dr. Aren Maier tells us about the origin and evolution of Judaism and the nation of Israel. Movie promotional image from Paramount Pictures. To help grow this podcast, please like, share and post a rating/review at your favorite podcast catcher. Subscribe here to get updates each time a new episode is posted... Subscribe Join our private discussion group at Facebook and our YouTube channel. YouTube Facebook Instagram Twitter Amazon Back to Recovering Evangelicals home-page and the podcast archive

#194 – The three existential threats of Dispensationalism

Last week we said this “mind-virus” could end up destroying the planet; this week we explain the three biggest reasons why/how. Last week’s episode title claimed “Dispensationalism” could end up destroying our planet, but we never really fully explained how: here, we fill in that fundamentally important gap. Our guest is the perfect expert for this. Dr. Daniel Hummel has a Master’s and PhD degrees in Christian History, which included two years spent in Jerusalem at the Rothberg International School combing their government archives for anything pertaining to the relationship between American Evangelicals and Zionists, after which he lectured in History and Public Policy at Harvard University. Then he took up a university faculty position as well as the Directorship of The Lumen Center, a privately-funded community of scholars reconnecting Christian thought and the academic disciplines through writing, teaching, and public engagement. And he has published two books on the subject of Dispensationalism in America and the relationship between Evangelicalism and Christian Zionism. Could we have gotten a better expert? We first unpacked those two books he’s written: Covenant Brothers: Evangelicals, Jews, and U.S.-Israeli Relations … and, The Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism: How the Evangelical Battle over the End Times Shaped a Nation. It will take up too much text space to summarize everything we discussed here. Suffice to say, we covered Evangelicalism, Zionism, Dispensationalism, the Prosperity Gospel, American politics and military involvement in the Middle East, Dominionism, End Times theology (of the Left Behind variety), Apocalypticism, climate change and ecological/environmental collapse. And again, the main goal was to highlight why Dispensationalism is so dangerous. Luke likened that worldview to a virus — “a mind-virus” — that has been getting increasingly virulent. It first infected John Nelson Darby, who spread it within his small Plymouth Brethren community. The virus mutated into a more virulent form within Cyrus I. Scofield, who then spread it throughout the Evangelical community via his immensely popular Scofield Reference Bible (even though he had no credentialed training in Biblical hermeneutics). Many Christians worldwide are now driven by this virus, including political and military leaders, even though they may not recognize the word “Dispensationalsm.” In fact, aspects of it can even be recognized by/within non-believing, secular people, and it may have infected Western society in general! So, how can we make these claims? Why is this word … this mind-virus … so dangerous? We highlighted three major sets of symptoms of its infection. First, an inordinate amount of attention on the geopolitics of Israel and an urge to “bless Israel” by any means. This is based on an overly literal wording of the book of Revelation and a few other passages, and a prophetic vision of armies from all nations of the world engaged in conflict over that small piece of real estate. There are some who would even hope to put a lit match to this powder-keg in order to accelerate the prophesied second coming of Christ. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy! Second, a callous attitude towards environmental and ecological collapse because, following that second coming of Christ and subsequent Armageddon — which Dispensationalists are convinced “is gonna’ happen any day now!” — Earth will be tossed into the Lake of Fire. So why get animated about global warming, climate change, species extinction, or even pollution in general? Drill, baby, drill! It’s all gonna’ burn anyway, right? (I myself actually thought that forty years ago!) Once again, some would even welcome these global calamities because those herald the second coming of Christ. As Sean Hannity said: “If [the world] really [is] gonna’ end in 12 years, to hell with it all! Let’s have one big party for the last 10 years, and then we’ll all go home and see Jesus.” And third, this virus may have acquired the ability to “species-jump” in that it may now be infecting non-believers in Western Society in general! Evangelical End Times thinking may be stoking the fires of apocalyptic Doomsday thinking in the Western zeitgeist, as evidenced by all the books and movies and podcasts about the End of the World, the stock market collapse, the coming Zombie Apocalypse, the inevitable Great Pandemic(s), World War III, and alien invasion(s). Other dangers that we didn’t dwell upon include the trail of religious trauma and opportunity costs which have followed the Left Behind series of books/movies and the belief that “Jesus is coming back any day now.” We previously focused on the religious trauma in episodes 106-109. As for the opportunity costs, Luke gave his own personal example of almost making the decision forty years ago to not go to university or get married because “why bother, we’re only gonna’ be here for a couple more years anyway.” Dangerous indeed! As always, tell us your thoughts on this topic … If you enjoyed this episode, you might want to check out our mini-series focusing on “the End Times,” starting at episode #106. If you want to find out more about our guest, check out his personal web-page, which also has links to his webpages at the university and at the Lumen Center, and his two books on this topic. To help grow this podcast, please like, share and post a rating/review at your favorite podcast catcher. Subscribe here to get updates each time a new episode is posted... Subscribe Join our private discussion group at Facebook and our YouTube channel. YouTube Facebook Instagram Twitter Amazon Back to Recovering Evangelicals home-page and the podcast archive