What's on your mind? Let CX Passport know...CX to sin. Peak-end to forgiveness. Episode 250 won’t be what you’re used to.This milestone episode examines how experiences actually end, and why organizations avoid designing that moment. In a wide-ranging conversation with Joe Macleod, CX Passport connects customer experience to religion, environmental responsibility, shame, and the circular economy. The conversation challenges the idea that endings are merely operational details rather than emotional and moral one...
What's on your mind? Let CX Passport know...
CX to sin. Peak-end to forgiveness. Episode 250 won’t be what you’re used to.
This milestone episode examines how experiences actually end, and why organizations avoid designing that moment. In a wide-ranging conversation with Joe Macleod, CX Passport connects customer experience to religion, environmental responsibility, shame, and the circular economy. The conversation challenges the idea that endings are merely operational details rather than emotional and moral ones. Joe also becomes the show’s first guest from Sweden, adding a perspective shaped by consensus, systems thinking, and responsibility.
5 Key Insights from the Episode
- Most organizations never ask “How does this end?” as an experience, only as an operational handoff
- The customer journey builds empowerment and agency, then abandons customers at the moment of exit
- Shame appears when responsibility for disposal, data, or materials is shifted entirely to the customer
- Religious and cultural frameworks offer richer language for endings than modern consumer systems
- Poorly designed endings damage brand memory and trust long after the relationship is over
Chapters
00:00 Intro
02:00 Designing beginnings while ignoring endings
05:20 Shame vs guilt at the end of the customer journey
08:40 Dark patterns, abandonment, and off-boarding
11:30 Consumption and environmental responsibility
13:10 Sweden, the UK, and systems thinking
16:45 First Class Lounge
21:30 Religion, forgiveness, and consumer psychology
24:50 Buddhism, Shinto, and product endings
28:00 Brand damage caused by poor endings
Guest Links
Andend website https://www.andend.co
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephmacleod/
Ends (book, affiliate link): https://amzn.to/3M3zDKL
Endineering (book, affiliate link): https://amzn.to/4atZWmy
Ends ebook — https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/744267
25% off discount code: NCKEV
Endineering ebook — https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1116883
25% off discount code: NCKEV
Introduction to Endineering course — https://www.andend.co/introductionendineering-1
25% off discount code: 7D7AQF5
Continue the Journey
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I'm Rick Denton and I believe the best meals are served outside and require a passport.
Disclaimer
This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed are those of the hosts and guests and should not be taken as legal, financial, or professional advice. Always consult with a qualified attorney, financial advisor, or other professional regarding your specific situation. The opinions expressed by guests are solely theirs and do not necessarily represent the views or positions of the host(s).
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