Donald Trump can seem like a political anomaly. You sometimes hear people describe his connection with his base in quasi-mystical terms. But really, Trump is an example of an archetype — the right-wing populist showman — that recurs across time and place. There’s Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, Boris Johnson in Britain, Javier Milei in Argentina. And there’s a long lineage of this type in the United States too.
So why is there this consistent demand for this kind of political figure? And why does this set of qualities — ethnonationalist politics and an entertaining style — repeatedly appear at all?
John Ganz is the writer of the newsletter Unpopular Front and the author of the forthcoming book “When the Clock Broke: Con Men, Conspiracists, and How America Cracked Up in the Early 1990s.” In this conversation, we discuss how figures like David Duke and Pat Buchanan were able to galvanize the fringes of the Republican Party; Trump’s specific brand of TV-ready charisma; and what liberals tend to overlook about the appeal of this populist political aesthetic.
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
“Right-Wing Populism” by Murray N. Rothbard
“The ‘wave’ of right-wing populist sentiment is a myth” by Larry Bartels
“How we got here” by Matthew Yglesias
Book Recommendations:
What Hath God Wrought? by Daniel Walker Howe
After Nationalism by Samuel Goldman
The Politics of Cultural Despair by Fritz R. Stern
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing from Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.
Is Green Growth Possible?
Salman Rushdie Is Not Who You Think He Is
This Conversation Made Me a Sharper Editor
A $1.7 Million Toilet and Liberalism's Failure to Build
What if Dario Amodei Is Right About A.I.?
Will A.I. Break the Internet? Or Save It?
How Should I Be Using A.I. Right Now?
Matter of Opinion: Paul Krugman on Inflation, ‘Bad Vibes’ and 2024
The Deep Conflict Between Our Work and Parenting Ideals
Birthrates Are Plummeting Worldwide. Why?
What a Second Biden Term Would Look Like
How America’s Two Abortion Realities Are Clashing
Marilynne Robinson on Biblical Beauty, Human Evil and the Idea of Israel
The Wars in Ukraine and Gaza Have Changed. America’s Policy Hasn’t.
Your Questions on Open Conventions, a Gaza Schism and Biden’s Chances
Here’s How an Open Democratic Convention Would Work
Democrats Have a Better Option Than Biden
Best Of: Status Games, Polyamory and the Merits of Meritocracy
Building the Palestinian State With Salam Fayyad
Create your
podcast in
minutes
It is Free
The Political Scene | The New Yorker
The Run-Up
The Daily
The Rachel Maddow Show
Freakonomics Radio