In episode 228, Kestrel welcomes curator and writer Catherine McKinley to the show. The author of Indigo, a journey along the ancient indigo trade routes in West Africa, and The Book of Sarahs, a memoir about growing up Black and Jewish in the 1960s-80s, Catherine has taught creative nonfiction writing at Sarah Lawrence College and Columbia University. Her newest book, The African Lookbook, A Visual History of 100 Years of African Women, draws on her extensive collection of photos to tell a different visual narrative of African women.
“In most of the societies, cloth is just, it’s essential, it’s considered something that contains the human spirit and it’s the layer next to the skin — you know, it has all those meanings. And cloth is essential from what you’re wound in the moment of birth to what you’re wound in at the grave.”On this week’s show, Catherine shares more on what led her to have an interest in writing, cloth, photographs and fashion. Through our conversation, she reminds us of the layers of meaning that can be embedded in cloth - from culture to identity to wealth to power and beyond.
Catherine also explains more on why she highlights the sewing machine and the camera as the two most important machinery for African women in her book — as she calls them, “steadfast instruments that offered a powerful means to author one’s own life.”
”I’m really driven by this idea of holding onto things from the past and things that are disappearing or are ephemeral in some way.” -Catherine
Seydou Keïta, photographer
Malick Sidibe, photographer
Okwui Enwezor, Catherine studied with him
The Walther Collection, Catherine worked here in the past
“And then I started feeling competitive in a way — these enormously wealthy men who could just acquire and acquire and acquire — you know, every amazing photo document that was coming in, and I started to take it a little bit more seriously. I started doing it in earnest and my collection is primarily women’s photos and I really felt like it’s not theirs, you know. It’s not theirs — I don’t have the access that they have, but to the extent that I can collect, I’m going to collect and I’m gonna claim this and I’m not gonna let it just be our object — I’m gonna think about its use and value to other people, beyond just sitting on a gallery wall.” -Catherine
“I was at a dinner with a group of men in the art world — I was the only female there, I was the only non white person there … it was a very male conversation about photography, and I think I blurted out this thing about the sewing machine and the camera, and everybody looked at me like I was crazy — you know, to say they were the most important machinery for African women." And then, I went home and I still felt like this thing is right, I’m right about this, and I don’t have evidence, but … it was kind of what finally organized the book for me — it was like ok how now am I going to prove this argument to these men in particular? Not that I was all that interested in whether they agreed or not, but it just seemed like this really outrageous claim, so how now am I going to make good on it?” -Catherine
“Cloth certainly has been one of the absolutely most important commodities for women — if you had access to buy one or two pieces of cloth and put that on your head and walk the street and try to sell it, it was small capital to build up more and more and more.” -Catherine
The McKinley Collection, Catherine’s archive representing African photographers from 1870 to the present
The African Lookbook
Follow Catherine on Instagram >
Wafa Ghnaim of Tatreez and Tea & Dr. Tanveer Ahmed of Central Saint Martins on preserving culture, decolonial frameworks, and how intersectional reform can be a pathway toward sustainable fashion futu
Sustainable fashion podcasters unite — Emily Stochl of Pre-Loved Podcast & Stella Hertantyo of Conscious Style Podcast help us reflect on 11 years since Rana Plaza, celebrating collective movements
Upcycling artists Francisco Alcazar & Ella Wiznia of Series NY are redefining sustainable fashion while reimagining craft & challenging the gender binary
How gender plays into the devaluing of knowledge and its links to sustainable fashion & wellness with Megan Schnitker of Lakota Made and Niha Elety of Tega Collective
Celebrating the cultural tradition, past and present, of Palestinian Tatreez with artists / educators Lina Barkawi and Eman Toom & why sustainable fashion must include cultural sustainability
Intergenerational knowledge & sustainable fashion — how clothing is more than just aesthetics; it’s about the upholding of cultural practices and the amplifying of knowledge & traditions
Vintage stylist Beth Jones & Dounia Wone of Vestiaire Collective on whether fast fashion brands fit into the resale experience
Why self work is integral to advocating for transformation in fashion & why we must deeply question our personal values to truly get active in creating a more sustainable fashion future
Denali Jöel on fashion as an art praxis rooted in Afro-Indigenous philosophies, interrogating the emphasis placed on the *industry* & reminding us of the possibility of creating new ecosystems
Julius Tillery aka the "Puff Daddy Of Cotton" on the need to remix both the perception of the cotton industry and the business model
Cassandra Pintro of Consumption Project on welcoming her community to challenge their buying habits and question what is *enough*
Jeanell English on navigating the pressure to project a certain image in business & across climate spaces and balancing the worlds of activists & execs as a leader in impact
Muchaneta Ten Napel on utilizing tech as a tool to change how fashion does business, not a crutch that will *save us all* & preparing for the fashion policy changes that are on the horizon
*Breaking It Down* with Rachel Arthur, lead author of The Sustainable Fashion Communication Playbook, an actionable guide co-published by UNEP and UN Climate Change
Tameka Peoples of Seed2Shirt on rebuilding equitable + just cotton systems & fostering the reclamation of cotton acreage for Black farmers
Lisa Diegel, Global Sustainability Director, on Faherty's Native Initiatives, what mutually beneficial relationships can look like in practice, and the nuanced ways brands must take responsibility for
Eric Liedtke of UNLESS on pressing fashion to ditch the plastic ingredients and ideating on what it will take for corporations to truly change
A new era of storytelling at Conscious Chatter, meet our newest team member Natalie Shehata & what slow media means for us in practice
Jessie Frances (@cappuccinosandconsignment) on the complications with resale's *moment* — fast fashion addictions becoming secondhand addictions, luxury's obsession with exclusivity & the gentrifica
Winona Quigley of Green Matters Natural Dye Company on reimagining what *scale* means for natural dyeing & how accessibility and limits also play into the idea of *growth*
Create your
podcast in
minutes
It is Free
The Modern West
Voices of Misery Podcast
House of Whimsical Terror
Just Dumb Enough Podcast
Stuff You Should Know
Timcast IRL