In Part 2 of our exclusive interview with Duncan Lewis AO, DSC, CSC, the recently retired head of ASIO, the conversation turns to the more recent challenge of foreign interference. Duncan has been quoted recently as describing foreign interference as an “existential threat to the nation”, and so Allan begins by asking Duncan to explain how he thinks about foreign interference in Australian politics, and how he would describe its impact. Darren looks to draw some contrasts between how Australia manages the threat of terrorism and how it responds to foreign interference. What is the first line of defence against foreign interference? What are some of the dangers of overreacting to the threat?
The conversation then turns to the new national security and foreign interference laws passed in 2018. Are these laws fit for purpose? What is the balance between the government’s duty to protect, and the individual's right to privacy? What is Duncan’s view of calls for vetting of parliamentary candidates, and is the securitisation of public policy a necessary consequence of dealing with modern threats?
The conversation finishes with the structure of national security policymaking in Australia. Who is the “Minister for National Security”, and what principles should govern decision-making? Finally, what in Duncan’s view are the most important qualities of political leadership?
As always, we invite our listeners to email us at this address: australia.world.pod@gmail.com We welcome feedback, requests and suggestions. You can also contact Darren on twitter @limdarrenj
We want to thank AIIA intern Isabel Hancock for research and audio editing, XC Chong and James Hayne for research support, Rory Stenning for composing our theme music and also Julia Ahrens for technical support in studio.
Ep. 129: Unsafe and provocative actions by the Chinese military
Ep. 128: Sols vote; nests of spies? growing AUKUS? Palestinian statehood?
Ep. 127: A China-led international order?
Ep. 126: The international economic order—Past, present, and future
Ep. 125: Wang Yi visits Australia
Ep. 124: Ukraine, Gaza, and international order
Ep. 123: ASEAN in Melbourne
Ep. 122: Indonesia, before and after the election
Ep. 120: Where to from ”stabilisation” in Australia-China relations?
Ep. 121: Reviewing 2023; speculating about 2024
Ep. 119: When domestic policy is foreign policy (and the PM’s travels)
Ep. 118: A US perspective on Australia’s defence policy
Ep. 117: Canada-India (emergency episode)
Ep. 116: Australia’s international development policy
Ep. 115: The domestic politics of AUKUS and Pacific security pacts
Ep. 114: And we’re back. Australia-China; US-China
Allan Gyngell and Australia in the world
Ep. 112: Cold War 2?
Ep. 111: AUKUS plans; India; red alerts
Ep. 110: Ukraine, one year on
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