Liquid Assets: A Beverage Industry Podcast

The new world for venture capital

Many investors have abandoned the world of early-stage alcohol startups, leaving a gaping hole in the market. There is less money available to fuel startup growth, and potential buyers are demanding both scale and profitability, extending the time to achieve an exit and reshaping the optimal strategy for building a brand. Over the last five years, Jason Sherman (Top Shelf) and Nick Papanicolaou (No Sleep Beverage) each helped found venture capital firms specializing in alcohol. In this episode we explore where they see opportunity, what they consider when making an investment, and what buyers of the future will ultimately be looking for. In this episode we discuss: The metrics that startups and investors should prioritize when measuring success. The current capital environment for early-stage startups and how to build a brand with way less money than before. Where the corporate VC model succeeded and why it ultimately failed to survive. Where innovation for large firms will come from in the future. Notable time stamps: 2:23 – Jason and Nick share their background and the investment thesis behind their firms. 17:11 – How to measure velocity: The key metric for potential investors. 20:30 – The impact of the general environment on investor sentiment and capital availability for independent brands. 41:00 - A corporate VC post‑mortem and the future of innovation at large alcohol suppliers. Have a question, qualm or story to tell, reach out via email: Bourcard.Nesin@Rabobank.com Sign up to access our written research: RaboResearch sign-up Note: The content and opinions presented within this podcast are not intended as investment advice, and the opinions rendered are that of the individuals and not Rabobank or its affiliates and should not be considered a solicitation or offer to sell or provide services. Disclaimer: Please refer to our global RaboResearch disclaimer at https://www.rabobank.com/knowledge/disclaimer/011417027/disclaimer for information about the scope and limitations of the material published on the podcast.

Heaven Hill on how to thrive in a downturn

From 1970 to 1995, US per capita spirits consumption fell by nearly 50%. Yet some players, like Heaven Hill, emerged stronger and more diversified than when the downturn began. In this episode, Heaven Hill Chairman Max Shapira and President Kate Latts reflect on the company's 90‑year journey, offering first-person accounts of beverage alcohol's last major downturn, the subsequent revival in demand, and what lessons, if any, apply to the current marketplace.  In this episode we discuss:  The drivers behind the collapse of alcohol sales in the 1970s and 1980s and the segments (wine, vodka, etc.) that actually grew during the downturn. The consolidation of the US bourbon industry, with the number of Kentucky distillers falling from 70 to 10 in just two decades. The drivers of the current market and whether they share any similarities with the 1980s. The outlook for the current US bourbon supply, and the risk of a shortage in three to five years. The moderated impact of oversupply on the sales performance of well-established brands v. startups.   Notable time stamps: 02:20 – History of Heaven Hill and building a diversified portfolio 09:21 – What caused alcohol sales to collapse from 1970 to 1995 12:39 – Parallels between the 1980s and today 19:17 – Drivers behind the current decline in alcohol demand and what is going on with millennials  32:13 – Why downturns and oversupply favor strong brands and what will happen to craft distillers 54:32 – Chaos in the distributor tier 01:02:28 – The post‑pandemic socialization reset   Have a question, qualm, or story to tell? Reach out via email: Bourcard.Nesin@rabobank.com Sign up to access our written research: RaboResearch sign-up   Note: The content and opinions presented within this podcast are not intended as investment advice, and the opinions rendered are that of the individuals and not Rabobank or its affiliates and should not be considered a solicitation or offer to sell or provide services. Disclaimer: Please refer to our global RaboResearch disclaimer at https://www.rabobank.com/knowledge/disclaimer/011417027/disclaimer for information about the scope and limitations of the material published on the podcast. 

Are there any bright spots in wine and spirits? featuring Danny Brager and Dale Stratton

Fresh from their rather somber state-of-the-industry presentation, SipSource analysts Danny Brager and Dale Stratton help identify whether there are any areas of growth and promise in the wine and spirits business. Topics include:  The performance of wine and spirits depletions in 2025 and the outlook for 2026. The surprising resilience of RTD growth rates. Prosecco's continuing strong performance. The wine industry trying more innovative marketing strategies. The importance of finding the right packaging formats. If consumers actually want low-alcohol products or if they want low-calorie and low-sugar products.    Have a question, qualm, or story to tell? Reach out via email: Bourcard.Nesin@rabobank.com Sign up to access our written research: RaboResearch sign-up   Note: The content and opinions presented within this podcast are not intended as investment advice, and the opinions rendered are that of the individuals and not Rabobank or its affiliates and should not be considered a solicitation or offer to sell or provide services. Disclaimer: Please refer to our global RaboResearch disclaimer at https://www.rabobank.com/knowledge/disclaimer/011417027/disclaimer for information about the scope and limitations of the material published on the podcast. 

How to become the biggest wine brand in the Midwest… or at least Indiana

Oliver Winery is one of the largest wine businesses in the United States. It is located in Indiana. In this episode, CEO Pat Brown shares how the unusual origins of the business have helped the company capture consumers who would otherwise be overlooked by the wine business, as well as the advantages of operating a winery outside the West Coast.    Have a question, qualm or story to tell, reach out via email: Bourcard.Nesin@rabobank.com Sign up to access our written research: RaboResearch sign-up   Note: The content and opinions presented within this podcast are not intended as investment advice, and the opinions rendered are that of the individuals and not Rabobank or its affiliates and should not be considered a solicitation or offer to sell or provide services. Disclaimer: Please refer to our global RaboResearch disclaimer at https://www.rabobank.com/knowledge/disclaimer/011417027/disclaimer for information about the scope and limitations of the material published on the podcast. 

Breakthru's Danny Wirtz on suppliers' shift to a "best athlete" strategy

Danny Wirtz, Co-Chairman of Breakthru Beverage Group, discusses how brands are rethinking national agreements and what success looks like when performance, not footprint, are the primary concern for suppliers' route-to-market strategy. Themes from the episode: How did Breakthru shift strategy after a planned merger with Republic National Distributing Company was terminated in 2019? What does geographic expansion look like in the current market? What is driving decisions about footprint? Are suppliers deprioritizing a national footprint? Are there still benefits from those national partnerships? How is the push from beer wholesalers and Reyes Beverage Group changing the strategies of wine and spirits wholesalers?  What are Danny's thoughts, as CEO of the Chicago Blackhawks, about the boost his sport has received from the international phenomenon Heated Rivalry?     Have a question, qualm or story to tell, reach out via email: Bourcard.Nesin@rabobank.com Sign up to access our written research: RaboResearch sign-up   Note: The content and opinions presented within this podcast are not intended as investment advice, and the opinions rendered are that of the individuals and not Rabobank or its affiliates and should not be considered a solicitation or offer to sell or provide services. Disclaimer: Please refer to our global RaboResearch disclaimer at https://www.rabobank.com/knowledge/disclaimer/011417027/disclaimer for information about the scope and limitations of the material published on the podcast.