Mads Singers Management Podcast
Business:Management
We often complain about the fact that there’s so much that “they” don’t teach us in school that we need not just for our careers, but for life. Turns out that instead of just adding one more voice to that chorus, someone decided to address those challenges by writing a book.
Today’s guest for the Mads Singers Management Podcast, Mark Herschberg, is the author of the new book The Career Toolkit: Essential Skills for Success that No One Taught You. Mark has managed to pull off a rare trick: 20 years in academia, teaching at MIT, and 20 years as a CTO, working with garage startups and Fortune 500 companies alike.
One of the aspects of our conversation that I found funny was how both Mark and I had to intentionally overcome parts of our own personalities in order to live the lives we do now. For me, as a classic introvert, I chose to ride a bus to work early in my career. I started with “Hi”s to strangers and when that became easier, I graduated to “Hi, how are you?” Mark’s technique was more dramatic: he used ballroom dancing. “If I made mistakes, it wasn’t the end of the world,” he noted. He took what may have been “high stakes” for others and turned it into a practice ground for himself. Not only did he become better at networking, but dancing gave confidence to his public speaking.
I shared that Toastmasters had been part of my own journey to improve in public speaking, and we noted that activities and hobbies like dancing or Toastmasters serve as their own form of networking. Rather than having to subject ourselves to the sometimes cringey world of “networking events” we have both come to realize over time that when you pursue interesting things you will run into interesting people. And before too long, you’re “networking” without even knowing it.
We also spoke about the value of negotiation and how some managers are “afraid” to train their employees to negotiate: “What if they use that against me?” But Mark really noted that this isn’t a smart way to think. It’s always better to negotiate against a good negotiator than a bad one. A good one figures out how to get the best outcomes for everyone instead of playing a zero-sum game. Yes, they may use their new negotiation skills “against” you, but they will appreciate your investment in them as a person, not just as a numbered employee.
Mark is so full of fascinating stories and helpful lessons that this episode could have easily gone on longer. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Key Learning Points:
1. Mads notes that the best salesperson doesn’t necessarily make the best sales manager, and certainly can’t become one without training - 3:43
2. Mads shares that often when people say they “don’t like managing” it’s because they don’t know how - 5:20
3. Mark stresses the importance of being incrementally better than your competition rather than focusing on being the “world’s greatest” - 7:07
4. Mark used ballroom dancing to help with his fear of public speaking - 11:04
5. Mark gives us a tactic to get networking results without attending “networking events” - 15:05
6. Mark has been encouraging people to re-invest the time they have saved with Covid - 23:40
7. Mark talks about the importance of learning how to learn - 30:00
8. Mark goes back to memories of geometry in school to connect learning to life - 33:45
9. Mark makes the case for training your team to negotiate better (even if it’s against you) - 37:45
10. Mark points out that there’s no substitute for practicing what you learn in books, courses, and podcasts - 42:20
11. Mads talks about the prestige and advantages that come from hosting groups - 47:30
Resources Mentioned:
The Career Toolkit
3D Negotiation
Bargaining for Advantage
Start with No
Getting to Yes by Roger Fisher
Never Split the Difference
Good for You Great for Me
Connect with Mark Herschberg:
The Career Toolkit
MSMP 85: Genesis Amaris Kemp on Diversity and Equality
MSMP 84: Mark Webster on Hiring Practices
MSMP 83: Matt Diggity on Better Management
MSMP 82: Martin Ebongue on Building a Team
MSMP 81: Jeroen Corthout on Building a SaaS
MSMP 80: Effie Parnell-Hopkinson on Team Management
MSMP 79: Alex Zuev on Intercultural Management
MSMP 78: Chris Wilson on The Arts Online
MSMP 77: Tonya Sowles on Employee Engagement
MSMP 76: Esbe Van Heerden on Operations
MSMP 75: Tim Brown on The Right People
MSMP 74: Ryan Stewart on People Scaling
MSMP 73: Liam Martin on Time Management
MSMP 72: Slawek Czajkowski on Building an SEO firm
MSMP 71: Jan Cavelle on Scaling and Development
MSMP 70: Greg Gibas on Remote Work
MSMP 69: Nick Jordan on Scaling Up
MSMP 68: Jocelyn Kopac on Company Culture
MSMP 67: Zachary Pritchard on Communication
MSMP 66: Zsofia Banyai on Automation and Outsourcing
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