Four years in, war in Ukraine grinds on. Is that what Russians want?

Russian planners and Western intelligence predicted the invasion of Ukraine would be quick and decisive. Of course, Kyiv did not fall quickly - and still hasn’t.

In the four years since Russia first invaded, the Kremlin’s so-called “special military operation” has evolved into the deadliest conflict on the European continent since World War II. According to Western governments and think tanks, more than 1.5 million people are dead.

And throughout the war, one of the biggest questions has been, is this what Russian people want?

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This episode was produced by Christine Arrasmith, Mia Venkat and Connor Donevan, with audio engineering by Stacey Abbott. It was edited by Nick Spicer and Sarah Handel. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun.


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