32. Rory Sutherland, Ogilvy UK

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Theories, digressions, amazing points, laughs. Wow! I’m not sure I would describe this as an interview, but instead a tour du force from one of my favourite people in behaviour science.

In 1hr and 42 minutes, we cover examples of the earliest behavioural scientists (Jesus and Aesop), to dog s*&t, horsepower, John Cleese, serial killers, naturism and a whole lot more!

Rory Sutherland joined Ogilvy and Mathers as a graduate trainee and planner in 1988, becoming the creative director in 2001, from 2008 to 2012 he served as president of the institute of practitioners in advertising. In 2012 Rory founded the behavioural science practice within the Ogilvy group, whose goal is to develop marketing techniques inspired by the fields of psychology and economics rather than shape customers desires through conventional advertising. 

In his book, Alchemy, the power of ideas that don’t make sense, Rory argues that marketing ideas are built around a core that is profoundly irrational. 

Just a few of the vast array of themes from Rory’s incredible mind include:

• Why Jesus was a master of loss aversion.
• How irrational stories drive rational behaviour
• The importance of anecdotal information
• The real reasons we make the decisions we do
• Why we should stop asking the customer
• How to make waiting lists a positive
• Why a meeting with no agenda is good sometimes
• Why most inventors are really marketers
• Why metrics are a distraction 

Thanks as ever to my co-host Dr Tiago Moutela, and as ever to our partners the Behavioural Science in Public Health Network (BSPHN).​