Tonight we continued our reading of Hypothesis 19 on obedience, its value, and how is attained.
We began with the Fathers’ understanding of the value of obedience. In it is realized all of the Commandments because through obedient love one conforms oneself to Christ. In this sense the person who is obedient, who embraces the will of another in whose care they are placed, becomes a “confessor of the Faith”. One who abandons his own will is rewarded more greatly than those who pursue virtue in accord with their own judgment or opinion. The clarity of the Fathers’ focus upon emulating Christ is essential for us to understand.
Obedience is not a slavishness; it is a self-emptying love that...
Tonight we continued our reading of Hypothesis 19 on obedience, its value, and how is attained.
We began with the Fathers’ understanding of the value of obedience. In it is realized all of the Commandments because through obedient love one conforms oneself to Christ. In this sense the person who is obedient, who embraces the will of another in whose care they are placed, becomes a “confessor of the Faith”. One who abandons his own will is rewarded more greatly than those who pursue virtue in accord with their own judgment or opinion. The clarity of the Fathers’ focus upon emulating Christ is essential for us to understand.
Obedience is not a slavishness; it is a self-emptying love that is rooted in the desire to please and serve the other. It is rooted in trust and shaped by self-sacrifice. May we never complicate it so as to make it unrecognizable. Within it is the power to redeem even what seems lost in our families, in our communities, and in life as a whole. It carries within it to seed of divine love that can reshape everything; even that which seems impossible to us.
---
Text of chat during the group:
00:10:32 Lyle: Looking forward to another evening where someone may decisively, yet lovingly, dismantle erroneous ecclesiology for those of us catechumens.
00:19:55 Anthony: I'm guessing it was a fig branch or twig. That's one way to propagate figs. In year three, you get figs.
00:21:51 Ambrose: 1 John 2:3-5 ‘And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected.’
00:22:18 Ambrose: John 14:15 ‘If you love me, you will keep my commandments.’
00:28:35 Anthony: This has implications for laity in problem parishes and dioceses and clergy under bishops with issues.
00:28:52 Anthony: Also had political implications against revolutions.
00:42:07 Ren: How does one reclaim the spirit of obedience once it has been lost? Once you have let resentment and even contempt of a particular authority figure to establish itself?
00:42:33 Jos: this was my question too but on the level of family/ generations
00:44:34 Ambrose: This one got me this morning. From lauds intercessions: Forgive us for failing to see Christ in the poor, the distressed and the troublesome, and for our failure to reverence your Son in their persons. (particularly the "troublesome" part)
00:45:22 Carol Nypaver: Amen, Ambrose.
00:45:43 Anthony: We find our identity in the wrong. Yeah, that's not healthy.
00:46:37 Ambrose: and not "sharing" it in social media
00:46:59 Jos: sorry I can't unmute
00:47:23 Carol Nypaver: Can you type it, Jos?
00:48:40 Jos: I wanted to ask about whether when one is born into a culture/ family structure and many generations that is filled with this pattern of resentment, lack of obedience etc, if it is then even possible to really change without enormous amounts of effort.
00:49:22 Lyle: Fr. David, I‘ve always appreciated the way you and some other spiritual directors continually point us to the Lord Jesus as our ultimate example whenever we need an example.
00:49:41 Jos: in our culture and my generation it is very common and it seems for many of us like outside of a very concerted effort it is nearly impossible to break out of the habitual that's been solidified in the unconscious
00:50:09 Anthony: Seeing each others flaws only - it can lead to long term and serious and acute resentments as with antipathy of different Slavic or Balkan peoples - or any of the old rivalries of Europe.
00:50:59 Ren: Agreed Lyle! “He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to death - even death on a cross.”
00:52:11 Ren: I have never been willing to be “obedient to death” 🤪
00:53:56 Carol Nypaver: There are many kinds of “deaths”—🤪
00:54:11 Ren: Yes. Ooof.
00:54:28 Carol Nypaver: 😩
00:54:36 Ambrose: All things are possible with God! Baby steps. Finding small things to train the will. Prayer. Nothing fast or quick fix.. Lean into grace.
00:55:55 Carol Nypaver: It’s a “choice” to obey/respect.
00:56:49 Lyle: Christ came into the world, not in His own name, but in the Name of the Father (John 15:20). He voluntarily accepted to fulfill in the most perfect way of the Father. As an adopted child of God, must not I voluntarily do the same? After all, God raised our Lord up and exalted Him above everything AND thereby provided eternal life to all mankind.
00:57:29 Ren: Amazing how obedience requires the other great virtues: Faith, Hope, Love, Extreme Humility. Maybe that is why the obedient brother is considered the greatest.
00:58:28 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻
01:01:32 Anthony: That's part of the Benedictine charism
01:04:38 Forrest Cavalier: Chrysostom Homily 20 on Ephesians 5 has this phrasing on bending the will: “and nothing is so bitter or so painful to me, as ever to be at variance with you”
01:06:29 Anthony: We formed in the American life have a long tradition of self-will going back to the Puritan, Scottich Covenanter and Huguenot traditions such as "Lex Rex" and "Give me Liberty or Give me Deah."
01:06:35 Anthony: "Death"
01:06:44 Ambrose: Though he was in the form of God,
Jesus did not deem equality with God
something to be grasped at.
Rather, he emptied himself
and took the form of a slave,
being born in the likeness of men.
He was known to be of human estate,
and it was thus that he humbled himself,
obediently accepting even death,
death on a cross!
(Philippians 2:6ff)
01:11:47 Lyle: During the Friday "Stations of the Cross", the Parish I am attending finishes EACH prayer with asking the Lord Jesus to "Do with me as YOU will."
01:13:15 Vicki Nichols: That sounds like St. Alphonsus Liguori's Stations of the Cross.
01:17:38 maureencunningham: Everyone a Movie called the Man of God about Saint Nektarios Of Aegina in Movie theater very beautiful film a friend said
01:22:15 Tyler Woloshyn: I have not found a viewing here in Canada for that movie yet
01:24:15 Anthony: Like the tendency to Jansenism or a Jansenist spirit among some American Catholic clergy and religious in past years and some trads now.
01:25:17 Lyle: The constant witness of the Eucharist is a very formative tool for anyone - adult or child.
01:25:50 Rachel: Thank you!!
01:25:51 Mitchell Hunt: thanks Father David
01:25:59 Anne Barbosa: Thank you Father!
