Spy vs. Chip

After watching Mission Impossible and Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy you've seen both the past and the future of espionage. We all remember stories of espionage during the Cold War. The rainy, grey streets of Eastern Europe, the moral twilight of Le Carre, U2 flights and prisoner exchanges on a deserted bridge. Today espionage has gone digital;  with keystrokes rather than micro-fish, with the likes of hackers like Kevin Mitnick replacing James Bond. At the same time the stakes have never been higher, as all of our secrets are more vulnerable than even. Former senior counsel at the National Security Agency, Joel Brenner takes us inside this new world of America the Vulnerable: Inside the New Threat Matrix of Digital Espionage, Crime, and Warfare. My conversation with Joel Brenner: