The announcement of a new trilateral security partnership, AUKUS (Australia, UK and US), is a major event in the history of Australian foreign policy. Australia is planning to acquire nuclear-powered submarines, scrapping a contract with the French to build conventional subs in the process. AUKUS also plans to engage in new forms of security cooperation in other technology domains. This decision is both momentous and controversial.
In this episode, Allan and Darren debate the merits of AUKUS, with Darren attempting to lay out a (theoretical) case in favour, while Allan offers his critique. The conversation is the strongest disagreement they’ve had in the history of the podcast, which makes for a lively debate! Hopefully the first of many in the months ahead as further details emerge and implementation begins.
The logic and consequences of AUKUS speak to the biggest questions of Australian foreign policy, and this discussion helps reveal clear points of disagreement in how Allan and Darren assess Australia’s strategic landscape.
We thank Mitchell McIntosh for audio editing and Rory Stenning for composing our theme music.
Relevant links
Joint Leaders Statement on AUKUS, 16 September 2021: https://www.pm.gov.au/media/joint-leaders-statement-aukus
Allan Gyngell, “Australia signs up to the Anglosphere”, Australian Financial Review, 17 September 2021: https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/australia-signs-up-to-the-anglosphere-20210916-p58s3x
Natasha Kassam and Darren Lim, “Successful deterrence: Why AUKUS is good news for Taiwan”, The Sydney Morning Herald, 19 September 2021: https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/successful-deterrence-why-aukus-is-good-news-for-taiwan-20210918-p58su7.html
William Gale and Darrell West, “Is the US headed for another Civil War?”, Brookings Institution, 16 September 2021: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2021/09/16/is-the-us-headed-for-another-civil-war/
Hugh White, How to defend Australia (La Trobe University Press, 2019): https://www.blackincbooks.com.au/books/how-defend-australia
Oriana Skylar Mastro, “The Taiwan Temptation: Why Beijing Might Resort to Force”, Foreign Affairs, July/August 2021: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2021-06-03/china-taiwan-war-temptation
Rory Medcalf, “Australia crosses a strategic Rubicon”, Australian Financial Review, 16 September 2021: https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/australia-crosses-a-strategic-rubicon-20210916-p58s2y
Editorial Board, “What to make of China’s drive towards ‘common prosperity’”, East Asia Forum, 20 September 2021: https://www.eastasiaforum.org/2021/09/20/what-to-make-of-chinas-drive-towards-common-prosperity/
Kevin Rudd, “Xi Jinping’s pivot to the state”, Address to the Asia Society, New York, 8 September 2021: https://asiasociety.org/policy-institute/xi-jinpings-pivot-state
Sinica Podcast, “What’s the deal with the Red New Deal?”, 16 September 2021: https://supchina.com/podcast/whats-the-deal-with-the-red-new-deal/
The Ezra Klein Show, Interview with Annie Murphy Paul, New York Times, 20 July 2021: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/20/podcasts/transcript-ezra-klein-interviews-annie-murphy-paul.html
The Ezra Klein Show, Interview with L.M. Sacasas, New York Times, 3 August 2021: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-lm-sacasas.html
Ep. 70: Alaska, “competitive co-existence” & duelling sanctions; Quad outcomes; OECD Cormann
Ep. 69: Biden’s early days; Quad; Pacific Islands Forum
Ep. 68: Natasha Kassam on preparing for a China-led world
Ep. 67: NZ-China-Australia; Myanmar; Xi's WEF speech; Australia-Malaysia CSP
Ep. 66: Revisiting the Capitol; a declassified Indo-Pacific strategy; Five Countries (!), & fresh ideas for Aussie FP?
Ep. 65: Processing events at the U.S. Capitol
Ep. 64: A cabinet reshuffle, politician ambassadors, the Richardson Review and summer homework
Ep. 63: Climate change and Australia, with Howard Bamsey
Ep. 62: A wild week in Australia-China relations
Ep. 61: Short- and long-term questions for Australian foreign policy
Ep. 60: US election rapid reactions
Ep. 59: Malabar and an emerging balancing coalition; Senator Abetz and loyalty tests; diplomacy and quarantine
Ep. 58: Mailbag! US failures; fearing abandonment; the Quad & democracy; grading China policy; DFAT in 2050
Ep. 57: Foreign interference & the Australia-China relationship; trilaterals; PM Suga; Thai protests
Ep. 56: Aussie journalists depart China (and other bilateral tensions); Foreign Relations Bill; Abe’s legacy; Tony Abbott
Ep. 55: Richard Maude returns (Part 2): China, models of cooperation, & what Australian foreign policy can do
Ep. 54: Richard Maude returns (Part 1), and Darren in the Beirut Blast
Ep. 53: Consulate closures & deteriorating US-China relations; AUSMIN; Defence Strategic Update
Ep. 52: ABC journalist Stephen Dziedzic on reporting Australian foreign policy, media-govt relations, and the Wolverines
Ep 51: Lowy Poll 2020; India-China; DFAT's travel advice for China; Allan's brush with tabloid fame
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