Tonight, I have to say, was one of the most beautiful groups on the Evergetinos that we have had to date. I do not say this lightly given how wonderful the past groups have been; but this hypothesis (19) opens up for us the meaning of obedience in such a way that one begins to understand that it is a virtue to be loved precisely because it draws us into love.
Obedience is therapeutic; it brings about healing for the soul. It place one in a right relationship with God and so heals the wounds of sin. Obedience leads to intimacy; he who does the will of My Father in heaven is my mother, my brother, my sister. We are drawn into the most intimate relationship ...
Tonight, I have to say, was one of the most beautiful groups on the Evergetinos that we have had to date. I do not say this lightly given how wonderful the past groups have been; but this hypothesis (19) opens up for us the meaning of obedience in such a way that one begins to understand that it is a virtue to be loved precisely because it draws us into love.
Obedience is therapeutic; it brings about healing for the soul. It place one in a right relationship with God and so heals the wounds of sin. Obedience leads to intimacy; he who does the will of My Father in heaven is my mother, my brother, my sister. We are drawn into the most intimate relationship with a Most Holy Trinity, Christ tells us explicitly, so much so that He and the Father will come to us and serve us when we have been faithful.
Indeed we already know the fruit of this in every celebration in Holy Mass. We need to only ask ourselves: “Who is it that sits at this table and who is it that serves?” Christ has made himself the obedient One and through His obedience has given us all; nourishing us upon His life and love. Our obedience allows us to respond in kind; it removes every impediment to our giving and receiving love.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:05:53 Rachel: Hola everyone.
00:07:56 Rachel: Road rage?
00:24:45 Ambrose Little: I remember reading St. Francis de Sales recommending that readily assenting to requests, even of our inferiors (e.g., even one's small children), is a kind of obedience. It is submitting our will to that of another.
00:26:23 Sarah Kerul-Kmec: Elder Paisios is a great example of this. giving over his will to a small child in an act of obedience
00:29:11 Daniel Allen: Would it be correct to equate obedience then as laying aside one’s own ego and preference to respond to the need of the other? Not to over simplify the topic but also trying to understand the common theme among the examples presented.
00:30:38 Rachel: It seems in this type of obedience to the reality of the person right in front of you God is not only trying to teach you something but He is offering Himself! This is the perfect example of what St. Maximus just said
00:34:18 Fr. Ben Butler: Yes, agreed. Well said about confession.
00:34:59 Ambrose Little: I think so, Daniel. It's a sacrifice of ego on behalf of another. Easier said than done!
00:35:06 Daniel Allen: Sorry question is above just prior to Rachel’s
00:38:41 Rachel: Wow
00:43:54 Forrest Cavalier: Is there a footnote about the camel in your English translation?
00:51:12 Forrest Cavalier: Marriage vocations are delayed, too.
00:52:16 David Robles: Father David, maybe it would be useful to point out that we do not obey the commandments as an exercise in ethics, or finishing a to do list, a set of rules, a legalistic requirement. For the Fathers , obedience to the commandments is something dynamic, nothing less than our participation in the Life of the Holy Trinity. The commandments are also therapeutic. Following them heals us. Finally we have the promise of the Lord Himself who in the gospel of John tells us, "whoever obeys my commandments is the one who loves Me... And the Lord promises that He and His Father will come into the heart of such a one and dwell in him.
00:55:47 Rachel: Obedience seems to be very closely related to purity of heart. David Robles just expanded on that point I think.
00:55:52 Rachel: I'm so sorry!
00:57:17 Ambrose Little: John 5:19; 31 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise…. “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.” John 10:30 "I and the Father are one." Divine union is often seen as the culmination of the contemplative life.
01:02:44 Rachel: What if one ( no this is not pertaining to me) finds there is a request or advice given by someone that contradicts what their conscience tells them? What if the person is a confessor or spiritual director? For a parent or spouse or friend this seems pretty clear cut but a confessor or spiritual director?
01:02:57 Rachel: LOL
01:04:37 Erick chastain: it is interesting reflecting on obedience after palm Sunday. I found myself wanting to make more sacrifices for Jesus after seeing how much our Lord lowered himself for me.
01:09:12 Ashley Kaschl: Seems like Newman is on the mind, because these paragraphs and sections are reminding me of the last part of a quote by St John Henry Newman,
“Therefore, I will trust Him, whatever I am, I can never be thrown away.
If I am in sickness, my sickness may serve Him, in perplexity, my perplexity may serve Him. If I am in sorrow, my sorrow may serve Him. He does nothing in vain. He knows what He is about. He may take away my friends. He may throw me among strangers. He may make me feel desolate, make my spirits sink, hide my future from me. Still, He knows what He is about.”
It seems that obedience is tied up, then, in trust and hope, and that these sections we’re reading demand a sort of stretching of our trust in God’s plan and will for our lives to its limits so that God can show us the depths where we might find joy in our obedience no matter the circumstance.
01:10:02 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry 😂
01:10:24 Carol Nypaver: My favorite. 🙏🏻
01:11:32 Rachel: No, its my favorite! Newman probably loves you more though.
01:12:43 Carol Nypaver: 🙃
01:13:03 Ambrose Little: If we zoom out from seeing the Law as a long list of particular commands and rather as a guidebook to the practice of obedience, then it seems clearer the truth that Christ put forth when He said that He came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. For in Him is the completion and perfection of obedience.
01:16:53 Carol Nypaver: Is there anything to be gained by obedience when it is done grudgingly….against one’s conscience? My son was forced to mask for 2 full years, in seminary, hating it all the while.
01:17:16 Carol Nypaver: 🤪
01:18:28 Forrest Cavalier: Filial piety aids harmonious community, even grudgingly.
01:19:09 Ambrose Little: If we agree with a thing, it is more akin to following our own will than another's.
01:19:24 Carol Nypaver: 😲
01:19:54 Carol Nypaver: Thank you!
01:21:55 Ashley Kaschl: Thanks father!
01:21:58 Sharon: Do you want a correspondence by phone call, email or FB Message?
01:22:04 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone. 😇
