Podbean logo
  • Discover
  • Podcast Features
    • Podcast Hosting

      Start your podcast with all the features you need.

    • Podbean AI Podbean AI

      AI-Enhanced Audio Quality and Content Generation.

    • Blog to Podcast

      Repurpose your blog into an engaging podcast.

    • Video to Podcast

      Convert YouTube playlists to podcasts, videos to audios.

  • Monetization
    • Ads Marketplace

      Join Ads Marketplace to earn through podcast sponsorships.

    • PodAds

      Manage your ads with dynamic ad insertion capability.

    • Apple Podcasts Subscriptions Integration

      Monetize with Apple Podcasts Subscriptions via Podbean.

    • Live Streaming

      Earn rewards and recurring income from Fan Club membership.

  • Podbean App
    • Podcast Studio

      Easy-to-use audio recorder app.

    • Podcast App

      The best podcast player & podcast app.

  • Help and Support
    • Help Center

      Get the answers and support you need.

    • Podbean Academy

      Resources and guides to launch, grow, and monetize podcast.

    • Podbean Blog

      Stay updated with the latest podcasting tips and trends.

    • What’s New

      Check out our newest and recently released features!

    • Podcasting Smarter

      Podcast interviews, best practices, and helpful tips.

  • Popular Topics
    • How to Start a Podcast

      The step-by-step guide to start your own podcast.

    • How to Start a Live Podcast

      Create the best live podcast and engage your audience.

    • How to Monetize a Podcast

      Tips on making the decision to monetize your podcast.

    • How to Promote Your Podcast

      The best ways to get more eyes and ears on your podcast.

    • Podcast Advertising 101

      Everything you need to know about podcast advertising.

    • Mobile Podcast Recording Guide

      The ultimate guide to recording a podcast on your phone.

    • How to Use Group Recording

      Steps to set up and use group recording in the Podbean app.

  • All Arts Business Comedy Education
  • Fiction Government Health & Fitness History Kids & Family
  • Leisure Music News Religion & Spirituality Science
  • Society & Culture Sports Technology True Crime TV & Film
  • Live
  • How to Start a Podcast
  • How to Start a Live Podcast
  • How to Monetize a podcast
  • How to Promote Your Podcast
  • How to Use Group Recording
  • Log in
  • Start your podcast for free
  • Podcasting
    • Podcast Features
      • Podcast Hosting

        Start your podcast with all the features you need.

      • Podbean AI Podbean AI

        AI-Enhanced Audio Quality and Content Generation.

      • Blog to Podcast

        Repurpose your blog into an engaging podcast.

      • Video to Podcast

        Convert YouTube playlists to podcasts, videos to audios.

    • Monetization
      • Ads Marketplace

        Join Ads Marketplace to earn through podcast sponsorships.

      • PodAds

        Manage your ads with dynamic ad insertion capability.

      • Apple Podcasts Subscriptions Integration

        Monetize with Apple Podcasts Subscriptions via Podbean.

      • Live Streaming

        Earn rewards and recurring income from Fan Club membership.

    • Podbean App
      • Podcast Studio

        Easy-to-use audio recorder app.

      • Podcast App

        The best podcast player & podcast app.

  • Advertisers
  • Enterprise
  • Pricing
  • Resources
    • Help and Support
      • Help Center

        Get the answers and support you need.

      • Podbean Academy

        Resources and guides to launch, grow, and monetize podcast.

      • Podbean Blog

        Stay updated with the latest podcasting tips and trends.

      • What’s New

        Check out our newest and recently released features!

      • Podcasting Smarter

        Podcast interviews, best practices, and helpful tips.

    • Popular Topics
      • How to Start a Podcast

        The step-by-step guide to start your own podcast.

      • How to Start a Live Podcast

        Create the best live podcast and engage your audience.

      • How to Monetize a Podcast

        Tips on making the decision to monetize your podcast.

      • How to Promote Your Podcast

        The best ways to get more eyes and ears on your podcast.

      • Podcast Advertising 101

        Everything you need to know about podcast advertising.

      • Mobile Podcast Recording Guide

        The ultimate guide to recording a podcast on your phone.

      • How to Use Group Recording

        Steps to set up and use group recording in the Podbean app.

  • Discover
  • Log in
    Sign up free
The Nonlinear Library: LessWrong

The Nonlinear Library: LessWrong

Education

LW - Doomsday Argument and the False Dilemma of Anthropic Reasoning by Ape in the coat

LW - Doomsday Argument and the False Dilemma of Anthropic Reasoning by Ape in the coat

2024-07-05
Download Right click and do "save link as"
Link to original article

Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: Doomsday Argument and the False Dilemma of Anthropic Reasoning, published by Ape in the coat on July 5, 2024 on LessWrong.
Doomsday Inference
Can we use probability theory to estimate how many people there will be throughout the whole human history? Sure. We can build a probability model, that takes into account birth rates, possible existential hazards, ways to mitigate them and multiple other factors. Such models tend not to be very precise, so we would have pretty large confidence intervals but, we would still have some estimate.
Hmm... this sounds like a lot of work for not much of a result. Can't we just use the incredible psychic powers of anthropics to circumvent all that, and get a very confident estimate just from the fact that we exist? Consider this:
Suppose that there are two indistinguishable possibilities: a short human history, in which there are only 100 billion people and a long human history, in whichthere are 100 trillion people. You happen to be born among the 6th 10-billion group of people. What should be your credence that the history is short?
As short and long history are a priori indistinguishable and mutually exclusive:
P(Short)=P(Long)=1/2
Assuming that you are a random person among all the people destined to be born:
P(6|Short)=1/10
P(6|Long)=1/10000
According to the Law of Total Probability:
P(6)=P(6|Short)P(Short)+P(6|Long)P(Long)=0.05005
Therefore by Bayes' Theorem:
P(Short|6)=P(6|Short)P(Short)/P(6)>0.999
We should be extremely confident that humanity will have a short history, just by the fact that we exist right now.
This strong update in favor of short history solely due to the knowledge of your birth rank is known as the Doomsday Inference. I remember encountering it for the first time. I immediately felt that it can't be right. Back in the day I didn't have the right lexicon to explain why cognition engines can't produce knowledge this way. I wasn't familiar with the concept of noticing my own confusion. But I've already accustomed myself with several sophisms, and even practiced constructing some myself.
So I noticed the familiar feeling of "trickery" that signaled that one of the assumptions is wrong.
I think it took me a couple of minutes to find it. I recommend for everyone to try to do it themselves right now. It's not a difficult problem to begin with, and should be especially easy if you've read and understood my sequence on Sleeping Beauty problem.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Did you do it?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Well, regardless, there will be more time for it. First, let's discuss the fact that both major anthropic theories SSA and SIA accept the doomsday inference, because they are crazy and wrong and we live in an extremely embarrassing timeline.
Biting the Doomsday Bullet
Consider this simple and totally non-anthropic probability theory problem:
Suppose there are two undistinguishable bags with numbered pieces of paper. The first bag has 10 pieces of paper and the second has 10000. You were given a random piece of paper from one of the bags and it happens to have number 6. What should be your credence that you've just picked a piece of paper from the first bag?
The solution is totally analogous to the Doomsday Inference above:
P(First)=P(Second)=1/2
P(6|First)=1/10
P(6|Second)=1/10000
P(6)=P(6|First)P(First)+P(6|Second)P(Second)=0.05005
P(First|6)=P(6|First)P(First)/P(6)=0.05/0.05005>0.999
But here there is no controversy. Nothing appears to be out of order. This is the experiment you can conduct and see for yourself that indeed, the absolute majority of cases where you get the piece of paper with number 6 happen when the paper was picked from the first bag.
And so if we accept this logic here, we should also accept the Doomsday Inference, shouldn't we? Unless you want to defy Bayes' theorem itself! Maybe the ability to predict the ...
view more

More Episodes

LW - We ran an AI safety conference in Tokyo. It went really well. Come next year! by Blaine
2024-07-18
LW - Friendship is transactional, unconditional friendship is insurance by Ruby
2024-07-18
LW - What are you getting paid in? by Austin Chen
2024-07-17
LW - Optimistic Assumptions, Longterm Planning, and "Cope" by Raemon
2024-07-17
LW - Turning Your Back On Traffic by jefftk
2024-07-17
LW - Why the Best Writers Endure Isolation by Declan Molony
2024-07-17
LW - DM Parenting by Shoshannah Tekofsky
2024-07-17
LW - Multiplex Gene Editing: Where Are We Now? by sarahconstantin
2024-07-16
LW - Dialogue on What It Means For Something to Have A Function/Purpose by johnswentworth
2024-07-16
LW - I found >800 orthogonal "write code" steering vectors by Jacob G-W
2024-07-16
LW - Towards more cooperative AI safety strategies by Richard Ngo
2024-07-16
LW - Trust as a bottleneck to growing teams quickly by benkuhn
2024-07-15
LW - patent process problems by bhauth
2024-07-15
LW - Misnaming and Other Issues with OpenAI's "Human Level" Superintelligence Hierarchy by Davidmanheim
2024-07-15
LW - Breaking Circuit Breakers by mikes
2024-07-15
LW - Whiteboard Pen Magazines are Useful by Johannes C. Mayer
2024-07-15
LW - LLMs as a Planning Overhang by Larks
2024-07-14
LW - Ice: The Penultimate Frontier by Roko
2024-07-14
LW - Brief notes on the Wikipedia game by Olli Järviniemi
2024-07-14
LW - Robin Hanson AI X-Risk Debate - Highlights and Analysis by Liron
2024-07-13
  • ←
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 10
  • 11
  • 12
  • 13
  • 14
  • 15
  • 16
  • →
012345678910111213141516171819

Get this podcast on your
phone, FREE

Download Podbean app on App Store Download Podbean app on Google Play

Create your
podcast in
minutes

  • Full-featured podcast site
  • Unlimited storage and bandwidth
  • Comprehensive podcast stats
  • Distribute to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and more
  • Make money with your podcast
Get started

It is Free

  • Podcast Services

    • Podcast Features
    • Pricing
    • Enterprise Solution
    • Private Podcast
    • The Podcast App
    • Live Stream
    • Audio Recorder
    • Remote Recording
    • Podbean AI
  •  
    • Create a Podcast
    • Video Podcast
    • Start Podcasting
    • Start Radio Talk Show
    • Education Podcast
    • Church Podcast
    • Nonprofit Podcast
    • Get Sermons Online
    • Free Audiobooks
  • MONETIZATION & MORE

    • Podcast Advertising
    • Dynamic Ads Insertion
    • Apple Podcasts Subscriptions
    • Switch to Podbean
    • YouTube to Podcast
    • Blog to Podcast
    • Submit Your Podcast
    • Podbean Plugins
    • Developers
  • KNOWLEDGE BASE

    • How to Start a Podcast
    • How to Start a Live Podcast
    • How to Monetize a Podcast
    • How to Promote Your Podcast
    • Mobile Podcast Recording Guide
    • How to Use Group Recording
    • Podcast Advertising 101
  • Support

    • Support Center
    • What’s New
    • Free Webinars
    • Podcast Events
    • Podbean Academy
    • Podbean Amplified Podcast
    • Badges
    • Resources
  • Podbean

    • About Us
    • Podbean Blog
    • Careers
    • Press and Media
    • Green Initiative
    • Affiliate Program
    • Contact Us
  • Privacy Policy
  • Cookie Policy
  • Terms of Use
  • Consent Preferences
  • Copyright © 2015-2025 Podbean.com