Podbean logo
  • Discover
  • Podcast Features
    • Podcast Hosting

      Start your podcast with all the features you need.

    • Podbean AI Podbean AI

      AI-Enhanced Audio Quality and Content Generation.

    • Blog to Podcast

      Repurpose your blog into an engaging podcast.

    • Video to Podcast

      Convert YouTube playlists to podcasts, videos to audios.

  • Monetization
    • Ads Marketplace

      Join Ads Marketplace to earn through podcast sponsorships.

    • PodAds

      Manage your ads with dynamic ad insertion capability.

    • Apple Podcasts Subscriptions Integration

      Monetize with Apple Podcasts Subscriptions via Podbean.

    • Live Streaming

      Earn rewards and recurring income from Fan Club membership.

  • Podbean App
    • Podcast Studio

      Easy-to-use audio recorder app.

    • Podcast App

      The best podcast player & podcast app.

  • Help and Support
    • Help Center

      Get the answers and support you need.

    • Podbean Academy

      Resources and guides to launch, grow, and monetize podcast.

    • Podbean Blog

      Stay updated with the latest podcasting tips and trends.

    • What’s New

      Check out our newest and recently released features!

    • Podcasting Smarter

      Podcast interviews, best practices, and helpful tips.

  • Popular Topics
    • How to Start a Podcast

      The step-by-step guide to start your own podcast.

    • How to Start a Live Podcast

      Create the best live podcast and engage your audience.

    • How to Monetize a Podcast

      Tips on making the decision to monetize your podcast.

    • How to Promote Your Podcast

      The best ways to get more eyes and ears on your podcast.

    • Podcast Advertising 101

      Everything you need to know about podcast advertising.

    • Mobile Podcast Recording Guide

      The ultimate guide to recording a podcast on your phone.

    • How to Use Group Recording

      Steps to set up and use group recording in the Podbean app.

  • All Arts Business Comedy Education
  • Fiction Government Health & Fitness History Kids & Family
  • Leisure Music News Religion & Spirituality Science
  • Society & Culture Sports Technology True Crime TV & Film
  • Live
  • How to Start a Podcast
  • How to Start a Live Podcast
  • How to Monetize a podcast
  • How to Promote Your Podcast
  • How to Use Group Recording
  • Log in
  • Start your podcast for free
  • Podcasting
    • Podcast Features
      • Podcast Hosting

        Start your podcast with all the features you need.

      • Podbean AI Podbean AI

        AI-Enhanced Audio Quality and Content Generation.

      • Blog to Podcast

        Repurpose your blog into an engaging podcast.

      • Video to Podcast

        Convert YouTube playlists to podcasts, videos to audios.

    • Monetization
      • Ads Marketplace

        Join Ads Marketplace to earn through podcast sponsorships.

      • PodAds

        Manage your ads with dynamic ad insertion capability.

      • Apple Podcasts Subscriptions Integration

        Monetize with Apple Podcasts Subscriptions via Podbean.

      • Live Streaming

        Earn rewards and recurring income from Fan Club membership.

    • Podbean App
      • Podcast Studio

        Easy-to-use audio recorder app.

      • Podcast App

        The best podcast player & podcast app.

  • Advertisers
  • Enterprise
  • Pricing
  • Resources
    • Help and Support
      • Help Center

        Get the answers and support you need.

      • Podbean Academy

        Resources and guides to launch, grow, and monetize podcast.

      • Podbean Blog

        Stay updated with the latest podcasting tips and trends.

      • What’s New

        Check out our newest and recently released features!

      • Podcasting Smarter

        Podcast interviews, best practices, and helpful tips.

    • Popular Topics
      • How to Start a Podcast

        The step-by-step guide to start your own podcast.

      • How to Start a Live Podcast

        Create the best live podcast and engage your audience.

      • How to Monetize a Podcast

        Tips on making the decision to monetize your podcast.

      • How to Promote Your Podcast

        The best ways to get more eyes and ears on your podcast.

      • Podcast Advertising 101

        Everything you need to know about podcast advertising.

      • Mobile Podcast Recording Guide

        The ultimate guide to recording a podcast on your phone.

      • How to Use Group Recording

        Steps to set up and use group recording in the Podbean app.

  • Discover
  • Log in
    Sign up free
The Nonlinear Library: LessWrong

The Nonlinear Library: LessWrong

Education

LW - Did Christopher Hitchens change his mind about waterboarding? by Isaac King

LW - Did Christopher Hitchens change his mind about waterboarding? by Isaac King

2024-09-15
Download Right click and do "save link as"
Link to original article

Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: Did Christopher Hitchens change his mind about waterboarding?, published by Isaac King on September 15, 2024 on LessWrong.
There's a popular story that goes like this: Christopher Hitchens used to be in favor of the US waterboarding terrorists because he though it's wasn't bad enough to be torture.. Then he had it tried on himself, and changed his mind, coming to believe it isn't torture.
(Context for those unfamiliar: in the decade following 9/11, the US engaged in a lot of... questionable behavior to persecute the war on terror, and there was a big debate on whether waterboarding should be permitted. Many other public figures also volunteered to undergo the procedure as a part of this public debate; most notably Sean Hannity, who was an outspoken proponent of waterboarding, yet welched on his offer and never tried it himself.)
This story intrigued me because it's popular among both Hitchens' fans and his detractors. His fans use it as an example of his intellectual honesty and willingness to undergo significant personal costs in order to have accurate beliefs and improve the world. His detractors use it to argue that he's self-centered and unempathetic, only coming to care about a bad thing that's happening to others after it happens to him.
But is the story actually true? Usually when there are two sides to an issue, one side will have an incentive to fact-check any false claims that the other side makes. An impartial observer can then look at the messaging from both sides to discover any flaws in the other. But if a particular story is convenient for both groups, then neither has any incentive to debunk it.
I became suspicious when I tried going to the source of this story to see what Hitchens had written about waterboarding prior to his 2008 experiment, and consistently found these leads to evaporate.
The part about him having it tried on himself and finding it tortureous is certainly true. He reported this himself in his Vanity Fair article Believe me, It's Torture.
But what about before that? Did he ever think it wasn't torture?
His article on the subject doesn't make any mention of changing his mind, and it perhaps lightly implies that he always had these beliefs. He says, for example:
In these harsh [waterboarding] exercises, brave men and women were introduced to the sorts of barbarism that they might expect to meet at the hands of a lawless foe who disregarded the Geneva Conventions. But it was something that Americans were being trained to resist, not to inflict. [Link to an article explaining that torture doesn't work.]
[And later:]
You may have read by now the official lie about this treatment, which is that it "simulates" the feeling of drowning. This is not the case. You feel that you are drowning because you are drowning[.]
In a video interview he gave about a year later, he said:
There was only one way I felt I could advance the argument, which was to see roughly what it was like.
The loudest people on the internet about this were... not promising. Shortly after the Vanity Fair article, the ACLU released an article titled "Christopher Hitchens Admits Waterboarding is Torture", saying:
You have to hand it to him: journalist Christopher Hitchens, who previously discounted that waterboarding was indeed torture, admits in the August issue of Vanity Fair that it is, indeed, torture.
But they provide no source for this claim.
As I write this, Wikipedia says:
Hitchens, who had previously expressed skepticism over waterboarding being considered a form of torture, changed his mind.
No source is provided for this either.
Yet it's repeated everywhere. The top comments on the Youtube video. Highly upvoted Reddit posts. Etc.
Sources for any of these claims were quite scant. Many people cited "sources" that, upon me actually reading them, had nothing to do with t...
view more

More Episodes

LW - You should go to ML conferences by Jan Kulveit
2024-07-24
LW - The Cancer Resolution? by PeterMcCluskey
2024-07-24
LW - Confusing the metric for the meaning: Perhaps correlated attributes are "natural" by NickyP
2024-07-24
LW - Monthly Roundup #20: July 2024 by Zvi
2024-07-24
LW - Unlearning via RMU is mostly shallow by Andy Arditi
2024-07-23
LW - DandD.Sci Scenario Index by aphyer
2024-07-23
LW - Categories of leadership on technical teams by benkuhn
2024-07-22
LW - The $100B plan with "70% risk of killing us all" w Stephen Fry [video] by Oleg Trott
2024-07-22
LW - Efficient Dictionary Learning with Switch Sparse Autoencoders by Anish Mudide
2024-07-22
LW - Analyzing DeepMind's Probabilistic Methods for Evaluating Agent Capabilities by Axel Højmark
2024-07-22
LW - On the CrowdStrike Incident by Zvi
2024-07-22
LW - A simple model of math skill by Alex Altair
2024-07-21
LW - Why Georgism Lost Its Popularity by Zero Contradictions
2024-07-21
LW - (Approximately) Deterministic Natural Latents by johnswentworth
2024-07-21
LW - Feature Targeted LLC Estimation Distinguishes SAE Features from Random Directions by Lidor Banuel Dabbah
2024-07-19
LW - How do we know that "good research" is good? (aka "direct evaluation" vs "eigen-evaluation") by Ruby
2024-07-19
LW - Linkpost: Surely you can be serious by kave
2024-07-19
LW - AI #73: Openly Evil AI by Zvi
2024-07-18
LW - Individually incentivized safe Pareto improvements in open-source bargaining by Nicolas Macé
2024-07-18
LW - Mech Interp Lacks Good Paradigms by Daniel Tan
2024-07-18
  • ←
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 10
  • 11
  • 12
  • 13
  • 14
  • 15
  • →
012345678910111213141516171819

Get this podcast on your
phone, FREE

Download Podbean app on App Store Download Podbean app on Google Play

Create your
podcast in
minutes

  • Full-featured podcast site
  • Unlimited storage and bandwidth
  • Comprehensive podcast stats
  • Distribute to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and more
  • Make money with your podcast
Get started

It is Free

  • Podcast Services

    • Podcast Features
    • Pricing
    • Enterprise Solution
    • Private Podcast
    • The Podcast App
    • Live Stream
    • Audio Recorder
    • Remote Recording
    • Podbean AI
  •  
    • Create a Podcast
    • Video Podcast
    • Start Podcasting
    • Start Radio Talk Show
    • Education Podcast
    • Church Podcast
    • Nonprofit Podcast
    • Get Sermons Online
    • Free Audiobooks
  • MONETIZATION & MORE

    • Podcast Advertising
    • Dynamic Ads Insertion
    • Apple Podcasts Subscriptions
    • Switch to Podbean
    • YouTube to Podcast
    • Blog to Podcast
    • Submit Your Podcast
    • Podbean Plugins
    • Developers
  • KNOWLEDGE BASE

    • How to Start a Podcast
    • How to Start a Live Podcast
    • How to Monetize a Podcast
    • How to Promote Your Podcast
    • Mobile Podcast Recording Guide
    • How to Use Group Recording
    • Podcast Advertising 101
  • Support

    • Support Center
    • What’s New
    • Free Webinars
    • Podcast Events
    • Podbean Academy
    • Podbean Amplified Podcast
    • Badges
    • Resources
  • Podbean

    • About Us
    • Podbean Blog
    • Careers
    • Press and Media
    • Green Initiative
    • Affiliate Program
    • Contact Us
  • Privacy Policy
  • Cookie Policy
  • Terms of Use
  • Consent Preferences
  • Copyright © 2015-2025 Podbean.com