Speak No Evil (2022)
Episode 407, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast
Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd,
Craig: and I’m Craig.
Todd: And joining us today for the first time is loyal listener, Jules. Jules, say hi to the people out there.
Jules: Hello everybody. This is a dream come true.
Todd: We’re so happy to have you on, you know, you reached out to us and said that you were a fan of the podcast.
Now you’re based out of the UK, right?
Jules: That’s right. Yeah. I’m in, uh, I’m in Birmingham. So slap bang in the center of the UK and, uh, and yeah, I travel around all over the place. Cause my, my job is I work as a standup comedian. So yeah, I travel all over the country and I discovered you guys, Oh gosh, not very long ago, really probably only about.
I think probably about three months ago, and I think I’ve, I’ve listened to nearly, I’ve listened to more of the podcasts that you podcast episodes that you have recorded than I haven’t, if you know what I mean. So it’s kind of, it’s bordering on obsessive.
Todd: Oh, that’s So flattering, I have to say. I’m sure you have some very boring nights. They must be especially boring if you’re resorting to listening to us.
Jules: It’s fabulous. It’s great. Honestly, I’ll be driving down the motorway and, you know, it’ll be sort of a three hour drive or something, and I’ll be thinking, Oh, God, I just want to get home.
And I’ll be, you’ll be making me laugh as I’m driving. It’s brilliant. I absolutely love it. So thank you so much for that, for the entertainment. It’s been an absolute godsend finding you. Seriously, it’s Well,
Craig: you’re kind, I very much appreciate your kind words and I am like immediately charmed by your accent.
So, I’m blushing, I’m blushing. That’s a brilliant place
Jules: to start. I’m so pleased. Seriously, this is like a little party for me. I’m all set up. I’ve got a glass of wine. It’s fabulous. Oh, nice. I’m just having the best time ever.
Todd: It’s evening time for Craig and I’ve had probably six or seven beers, but that’s been over the course of like seven hours.
I, I I just got off a really long board gaming session with some friends, we’re really big nerds.
Craig: Oh my gosh, you and the board games. Yeah, this was I think, Todd, I think you may have a problem with board games. I may. It could be. It could
Todd: be. Well,
Jules: I love that you pick on Todd for the, for the, the board game situation, but I’ve just said I’ve got a glass of wine and that just gets to me.
Breezed over, that’s fine, that’s not a problem. Are
Todd: you kidding me? I would, I would bet 50 50 roll the dice that Craig has a mimosa in his hand right now, and it’s like early in the morning for him.
Craig: I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Todd: Yeah, that’s right. Moving on, moving on. Anyway,
Jules: well,
Todd: we were so flattered that you reached out to us and so interested to chat with you, and since you’re no stranger to speaking into a microphone for Hours on End, we thought it would be lovely, lovely to have you on the show, and, uh, do Movie that you chose and you chose a few and I think it was more Craig that was narrowing it down with you But he and I chatted and I think we ended up among the three of us settling on 2022’s speak no evil directed by Christian Toftrup.
I believe right. It’s a Danish movie And, uh, I’m gonna butcher all of these Dutch and Danish names 100%. I think one of the reasons we really honed in on this is that it has an American remake coming up this month, in fact. So, you suggested it, and I’ll tell you right off the bat, I had never heard of it before.
And, uh, so of course I’d never seen it, so I was very interested in checking it out. Craig, did had you seen this before?
Craig: Oh boy. All right. Storytime. What? I had seen it before and I remembered it being really dark. I was doing other stuff yesterday and I didn’t really get around to watching it. And I told my partner, Alan, I’m like, you may have to watch this movie with me.
And he wasn’t happy about it.
Jules: Oh,
Craig: and then we, we, we sat down to watch it together and we watched the first 10 minutes. And he was like, you’ve already made me watch
Jules: this. Oh,
Craig: no!
Jules: Oh, can I apologize to Alan? I feel like I know what this is about. So,
Craig: Alan, I’m so sorry. He’ll never hear that, but I’ll for him.
That’s true. So, we had to Stop. I was like, I’m not gonna make you and like I made him kind of prove it. Like yeah. Well what happens? And he started telling me I’m like Yeah, I guess I did make you watch it.
Todd: You didn’t remember. So we had to,
Craig: no, I remembered, I just didn’t remember. I’m shocked. I probably sold, I probably sold it to him the first time, the way that I tried to sell it to him this time too.
I’m like, it’s not, you know, like a monster movie, you know, it’s not that type of horror. It’s like a thriller, like, like a psychological thriller. Cause he gets into stuff like that. And it is. So I didn’t make him watch it again, but that meant then that I had to get up super early this morning to watch it first thing in the morning.
Oh,
Todd: so you just came off it fresh.
Craig: So, yeah, yeah, I just finished watching it like a half an hour ago. And, yeah, I, Jules, I’m with you, like, I had forgotten how dark it was. I was like,
Jules: Yeah.
Craig: Oh my God. This is horrible.
Jules: When you just said that you’d forgotten that you’d seen it, I’m surprised by that because it’s one of those movies that I don’t know.
I mean, I find that quite a lot of horror movies I’ll watch and I’ll enjoy them in the moment. And then they’re pretty much, you know, they can be a little bit disposable, can’t they
Todd: sometimes?
Jules: This is one of those that has stayed with me, you know, although what I will say is I had forgotten the very, very ending of it, you know, after the, the, the, the brutal scene in the car, after that scene, I’d forgotten that there was another brutal scene after that one.
I think cause I was so shocked by the brutality of the, The first one. So yeah, but I am surprised that you’d kind of money. Perhaps you blocked it out because it was just, that’s what I was going to say.
Craig: I wonder if it’s like selective memory. Like it really is. As soon as the movie was over this morning, I felt a little sick.
Like, that’s terrible. And yeah, we’ve, we’ve watched and talked about other, Movies that had a similar effect. Like it reminded me quite a bit of funny games
Jules: and
Craig: creep a little bit,
Jules: the strangers a little
Craig: bit. Um, Todd, you and I did that movie home movie. Do you remember that one? Where like the kids evil. It gave me all of those vibes.
It was just very dark and very disturbing and maybe more upsetting than the typical horror movie, because the scenario is something that any normal person would do. Could fall into now, I wouldn’t because I don’t trust or like people , so I
Jules: would
Craig: never .
Jules: Well, this is kind of
Craig: the
Jules: message I would never, the movie, I think, isn’t it?
The message is trust no one. Everyone’s an asshole. Oh my God. Is what they’re
Todd: saying. I, I have to tell you personally, I, I don’t gravitate towards movies like these. Tend to, and this is also where Craig and I, uh, uh, differ a bit, you know, in what we have historically watched movies for when we were growing up.
Particularly, we talk about this a lot. Like, I really liked watching horror movies because they were silly. You know, I, I grew up in the eighties and we would go to the video store, we would try to pick the worst looking movies on the shelf so that we could sit around and we could laugh at ’em. So my expectations were really low.
Keeping in mind also, I really love Halloween. I love being scared. I love going through, you know, haunted houses and things like that. And so I do want to watch movies that scare me. But ultimately, at the end of the day, you know, I want to be entertained. And horror movies are not something I go to when I want to have to think a lot and come away with this, this deep message.
And so movies like this can go one of two ways for me. Either I feel like they’re so mean spirited, and brutal and bleak and nihilistic that you just walk away and you just feel sick and you feel gross and, I don’t know, I need to like pop in Super Mario Bros. or something like that to like cleanse myself of This idea that, you know what, the world can actually be a really shitty place for a lot of people, and horrible people do horrible things to each other, and it’s not something I necessarily want to be reminded of.
You know?
Jules: Mm hmm. Let alone Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Todd: In kind of an entertainment form. And so, even with the torture porn era, and those kind of movies coming out, generally speaking, like, what you’re seeing on screen is pretty brutal and gross and mean, but in general, most of those are still rather silly in their concept, or whatever.
But these movies, like, you just rattle them off, Craig, you know, like funny games and this and whatnot. They’re all too real. I was actually thinking of the vanishing. Have you guys ever seen that? Yes. Mm hmm. That’s it.
Jules: Is that the one that was originally French and then there was a remake of it in the early nineties?
Is that right? Yes. Yeah, I know. Yeah,
Todd: that might have been the first movie I ever watched that was so bleak and had an ending that was dark and didn’t turn out well for anyone that really, really unsettled me and bothered me. And I was thinking about that a lot when I watch this movie because once again, it’s it’s this case of these people who are on a vacation and they’re having a good time and they just stumble into a situation through it.
Yeah. Well, in The Vanishing, it’s almost just they’re no fault of their own. It’s just these bad, random things happen to people. In this case, like you said, Jules, the message of the movie seems to be like, maybe we’re too trusting of people and maybe we’re, we’re trying too hard to be polite. Yeah. Yeah. And so just to sum up my thoughts, like, I don’t hate this movie then.
You know, I, I don’t like a movie that’s just mean spirited and bleak. I’m like, wasn’t that awful. This movie does have a message as bleak as it is. And, and it’s as troublesome as it is. So, uh, I feel like it’s a, it’s a nice bit of art and there are a lot of nice things you can say about it. Even though I would warn people, if you’re already turned off by the topics we’re talking about right now, you’re probably going to want to give this one a hard pass.
Jules: Yeah. I think there’s probably something in that, but it is, I think this is such a good example of, of people not wanting to offend anybody, you know, and it gets taken to that ridiculous extreme. Cause I’ve, I’ve read some comments about it online with people saying things like, Oh, it’s so ridiculous as if you’d stand for that as if you put up with people behaving like that.
But I think it, when I read people commenting things like that, it made me think of, um, You know, the theory of if you put a frog directly into boiling water, it will jump out immediately. Of course it will. But if you put a frog into normal, you know, room temperature water and then slowly heat it up, it will stay in the water and die.
And it’s that kind of idea, isn’t it? You know, these people that are the, you know, the baddies, in inverted commas in the film, they don’t start out as being these idiots. sort of evil, dreadful people if they did, if their behavior was at the beginning of the film, as it is towards the end of the film, or, you know, certainly when it reaches that climactic point, you’d have run a million miles away.
You would have never engaged in conversation with them, but they, they almost groomed, don’t they? I guess that’s the term they groomed. Certainly Bjorn, the main So I found it a really interesting watch from that point of view. Just how much will people take? Although I’ll be honest. There were also times when I was going, don’t go back.
That’s ridiculous.
Craig: Okay. So, yeah, I, I, I agree with you and I love that analogy. I think I’ve heard that before, but it does make a lot of sense. But there were just so many points in this movie where I couldn’t rationalize it. Like, I can’t rationalize why you’re saying, just leave. Like, you don’t have any connection to these people.
It’s not even your family. Like, just go. Never speak to them again. Like, why is this a problem? They are strangers to you.
Todd: You
Craig: know what
Todd: though? I think everyone kind of falls on a different spectrum. And it probably depends on how, where they’ve grown up. Or, you know, how they were raised or whatever. My family, you know, I had a very idyllic childhood.
Both of my parents, we didn’t experience real stress. We never had real problems. And, uh, we were all have remained a very happy and loving family. And so we have just skidded about life. And most of our encounters are very. Friendly and normal and happy and we were raised most of our lives in the Midwest where everyone is polite to each other I mean, this isn’t a generalization, but you know compared to New York City or something like that People walking up and down the street and they say hi to each other and we We greet strangers we smile at them.
Craig: We wave to each other from the car Like if you pass them Like if you’re driving and you pass somebody walking, you wave at them. It’s
Todd: ridiculous. We’re weird. And, and since, since I’ve moved abroad, you know, and I’ve been abroad a couple of different times and I do a lot of traveling, you know, I got to learn that most of the world is not like that.
There’s a spectrum, but most of the Americans in particular, I think have a sort of a reputation around the world for being, Overly friendly, overly sharing of their personal lives and things. You could sit next to a guy on a bus and we want to start up a conversation with them and pretty soon they know all about the last ten years and what we’re doing and who our family is and where we’ve been and all this stuff.
And I think people are, at best, amused by that, at worst, turned off and annoyed by it. Like, what in the, why in the world are you talking to me? So. So. Um. I get that, and so I kind of put myself in place, and you know, the Todd of 20 years ago wouldn’t have probably acted like this guy 100%, but he was very much of this mindset.
You know, I want, and still the Todd of today, really in a social situation wants everybody to be having a good time, and I will take some hits just to make sure that nobody else is offended or nobody else is having a bad time. So, I do kind of get how this can happen, and I have Only recently come around to this point where I need to be a little bit more like just like no, you’re a stranger I owe you nothing and this is weird and I goodbye I’m not gonna have anything to do with you and I’m not gonna feel bad about saying that
Jules: Yeah, I think I’ve got I’ve had very very similar thoughts and feelings about this movie exactly what you’ve just said really But I think my issue with it is, like you say, you’re happy to take some hits when it’s concerning you.
You know, if people are having a good time, or I don’t want to be the party pooper and look like I haven’t got a sense of humor or whatever, or I don’t want to offend anybody. Um, but as soon as it starts to affect your children, I think that’s when, for me, that was the point when I suddenly, you know, I mean, I’m, I am a very non confrontational person.
And I will do everything Anything to avoid an argument with somebody. I just want to keep people happy. But I think if the kind of situations that arise in the movie happened in real life, I would very quickly learn how to punch somebody in the face. Yeah.
Craig: Yeah. Yeah. Gosh. I hate to be this guy, but I feel like we need to like give the, because I want to talk about those things.
Like
Todd: when you say,
Craig: when it starts, when it starts to affect the kids. I 100 percent agree and I want to get there, but I feel like I, we need to give the setup. Okay. So right?
Jules: Like
Craig: this, this normal couple, what are their names? Bjorn and Louise. Yeah. And, and they’ve got a daughter, Agnes, and they’re just on vacation and they meet another couple about their age who has a kid about their age.
And that’s Patrick and Karen. And, Patrick and Karen seem like normal and fun or whatever and they have a kid and the kids hang out together. And when they’re done with the vacation, Patrick’s like, you guys should totally come visit us. And they’re like, okay, whatever. And then they go back home, Bjorn and Louise go back home, and tell their friends, yeah, we met this couple, and they’re like, you should come visit us, but we’re probably not going to.
And their friend’s like, no, you totally should! It’ll be great! Well,
Todd: in fact, one of their friends says, it would kind of be rude not to, wouldn’t it? Don’t they? Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah.
Craig: And somebody, and somebody says, what’s the worst that can happen. You guys, you guys, that is my headspace. My headspace is always, what is the worst that could happen?
And that’s, and that’s why I would never. I would never, like, I don’t care how, like we click on vacation. We have a great time on vacation. That’s great. I am not coming to your house to stay there for several days. I
Jules: saw part of one of the trailers for the remake that is, that you mentioned is coming out very soon.
One of the actors that was in that, I think it’s the, the lady who’s playing, The Karen character and she said well I think probably the moral of this film is never hang out with vacation friends after the vacation.
Perfect.
Todd: I mean, yeah. My point here is that we can delude ourselves in the moment into thinking we know somebody better than we do. Or that we are friendlier with them when we do. And that you were so susceptible to that on vacation. You can spend an intense week with a group of people, and you feel like you’re best friends, and then when you walk away, you never think of it again, and you realize, yeah, I didn’t really know anything about those people.
Honestly, even the time we had together wasn’t that amazing. It was just that we were together for an intense period of
Craig: time. That’s my favorite part about it. Is that you get to, like, hang out and have fun with these people, knowing that you’re never gonna talk to them again. So, so, you can just totally be Yourself and like, you
Jules: can pretend to be somebody completely different,
Craig: right?
Or crazy or crazy, which is what this way to
Todd: bring us back.
Craig: Yeah. They take their child. To go stay at these people’s house. And that’s another thing. Like, I remember when I was a kid and I would get to go on vacation to like, spend a week with my cousins and we didn’t really have anything planned or anything.
We would just hang out and ride our bikes and play. And that was great. It was a great vacation. I can’t imagine as an adult, just going to somebody’s house to just hang out.
Todd: Yeah,
Craig: it’s weird. Like, I don’t know, but it was
Todd: another, it’s another country granted. It’s only an eight hour drive, but you know, they were like, we’re going to show you the Danish countryside.
You know, our son is really looking forward to your visit, which immediately sounds like a lie because their son barely talked and was super shy the whole time. He doesn’t
Craig: talk at all.
Todd: Well.
Craig: Because he has no tongue!
Todd: They don’t know that at first.
Jules: That’s true, that’s true. They find that out later, don’t they?
I looked this up as well, by the way. I’ve been a proper geek about this. He mentions the condition that apparently they say that the child has been born with. And I thought, is that, is it actually real? You know, is that a condition that exists? And it is. I can’t, I can’t find in my notes now what he says it’s called.
Congenital aglossia.
Craig: It’s a condition.
Jules: Yeah, that’s it. There are, there are only 11 people in the world known, recorded people, 11 people in the world living with that condition. Really? So that would be a pretty weird thing to go and, you know, to just stumble across this family and the child happens to have that.
Although, of course, they wouldn’t know that at the time, but, um, yeah, I just thought that was an interesting little, little bit of info. Yeah, 11 people in the whole world haven’t got a tongue or born without one. That’s
Todd: crazy, but they don’t tell them that at first and what I really liked about the movie was that it immediately I mean, you know, you’re watching a horror film so you were immediately expecting to be scared But yeah, I thought the film did a really good job of instilling this sense of dread from the very beginning Some of that came from the music And some of it, I mean, having pretty recently reviewed The Shining, I thought this actually copped a bit of style from that, especially in the earlier stages.
Yes!
Jules: Oh god, yes!
Todd: Yeah.
Jules: That’s so true, that journey in the car at the very beginning.
Todd: Yeah, very long still shots that were extremely wide that didn’t move, and mostly it’s just nature or, you know, the house and things like that. It was pretty creepy.
Jules: Yeah,
Craig: it hadn’t occurred to me, but I did have something, yeah, about the score in my notes and I hadn’t made that connection, but I definitely agree.
Sorry, I started talking and then thank you for establishing. But I think what, what bothered me Was that I understand that when we meet new people, and especially if we have no connection to them, maybe they say something a little off and we’re just like, You’ll let that go. Cause who cares, whatever. I just feel like there are so many red flags.
Jules: Yeah.
Craig: So, so, so many, and maybe not. I, even though I just watched it hours ago, I don’t remember so much if on their vacation, there were those huge red flags, but as soon as they go to visit them, then there are like, but they’re rather small. The very first thing. The, the mom, well, I mean, they, they seem nice and hospitable or whatever, but the very first thing that happens is they come, they’re like, Oh, we cooked you dinner, we roasted a hog.
She had made a whole point. She was a vegetarian and she had explained to them why, like it was a whole thing. It wasn’t just a casual, like, Oh, sorry, I’m a vegetarian. And that’s the end of it. No, they had had a huge conversation about it. And then she shows up and he’s like,
Clip: Louise, is this for you? Oh no, no,
Craig: that that’s
Clip: fine.
I insist. I insist. No, no. I’ll wait till the It’s my favorite part of the roast. It’s delicious. It’s crispy and soft at the same time. Yes. How would I feel? Yeah. What? What’s happening? Let’s go. It’s good, right? Very good.
Jules: She just accepts it. She, she takes hold of the fork and goes, Oh, okay, then I’ll have some of the wild boar that I, you know, just like crazy.
I mean, both of my daughters are vegetarian. And if I did that, they, they’d tell me exactly where to go. You know, if I tried to say to them, Oh, here you are. Just have some of this roast beef that I’ve cooked. It won’t do. Come on. It’s really nice. It’ll do you good. They would not stand for that for one second, but that was what.
It did start to annoy me, kind of, and I thought, is that part of the whole message? You know, are we supposed to feel like that? Are we supposed to be aware that she’s not standing up for herself?
Todd: Number one, I think, I think this is a cultural thing. The director himself, in some interviews, said that he was surprised that this movie translated across cultures because he said, this is such a thing that we Scandinavians, you know, that we, that we deal with.
Dutch, Danish, we are very, very constrained by this polite society, and we are never wanting to step on anyone’s toes. You know, I lived in Japan for three years, and the same kind of things can happen there. People will acquiesce to things that they are very uncomfortable about doing, just because they have been trained, you know, to keep the peace and to not say no.
And so
Craig: Yeah. Always. That’s, that’s not . I, I understand that, you know, in different cultures, you know, you’re, but that’s not an American thing too. Like, yeah, if I go to somebody’s house and they serve me dinner and it’s something that I don’t like, I will still eat and be polite about it. But it, but if I have.
If I have told them in advance, I’m a vegetarian and I have specific reasons for being a vegetarian and then they serve me meat, I’m not gonna do that.
Todd: That’s you, Craig.
Craig: Maybe
Todd: That’s you. Todd, come on. I’m telling you. No. Seriously? No, seriously, people will do this. It does seem extreme, really. People
Jules: will do
Todd: this.
Do you think? Uh, yes. Wow. They will. And now, I don’t know why she didn’t just pipe up and say, oh, don’t, don’t forget, I’m a vegetarian. She probably just could have said those words and whatever, but in the moment, with the chuckling and the insisting and all this stuff, there can be a lot of things going through your head.
There can be like, well, maybe he doesn’t remember, or maybe, you know, he, then you think, oh God, well, he cooked this whole roast boar and this is all we’re going to eat tonight, and then I’m going to spoil the whole thing by speaking up and saying something for it. You can be caught in this kind of position.
And now, you or I. Probably wouldn’t do that, but I am telling you, especially in some cultural situations, it would be again. It’s it’s so against your training that you just might just go along with it. Take a little nibble or just pretend like you ate a little bit of the end or something like that. But what’s going on here really is that these people are being tested.
You know, by the end of the movie, I was like, why did, why did all this happen? And there’s an answer, and I think we’re going to get to it, but They’re, they’re, what becomes obvious is they are being tested. These are just a series of, because they could just take this couple, you know, Hi, you’re at our house.
Put plastic bags over their head and do what they’re going to do with them. But yeah, you don’t know if they’re going to put up a fight, you don’t know if they’re gonna what they’re going to do. It’s so much better to do this grooming and to do this testing so that you know what you’re getting into. And I think that’s what’s happening here.
Jules: And I think they enjoy it as well, don’t they? I get the impression that it’s part of their, their game. It’s something that they like to do. It’s their hobby almost. So, um, yeah, very strange.
Todd: Also, there’s this other dynamic too, right? There’s the husband and wife dynamic, and I think what is very clear from the beginning before they even go to that house is that Bjorn is a little unhappy.
He’s mm-Hmm. kind of got this longing for the simple life, you know, he’s very taken by Italy. By their time there in Tuscany, he’s, he’s like almost crying at the girls singing and looking around and, and he sees Patrick kind of raises glass like, Hey buddy, I’m enjoying this too. From across the way. Yeah.
And then back in the city, you know, he’s distracted when he’s at the apartment and you can see him staring out the window and the parallels are obvious, you know, he’s looking out the window and he’s like, this isn’t Tuscany. So he’s kind of wants to get into this and he kind of wants to, he’s, he’s got this appeal of this remote place out of nowhere.
And these people who seem to live this simpler life and are very easy going. And then. You know, now you have this husband and wife dynamic. Maybe the wife isn’t quite like that, but because the husband kind of is, he’s kind of like, Oh, go ahead, go, go with it, honey. You know, and they can’t argue in front of the guy.
And so, you know, that’s happened before
Jules: in any relationship. That’s interesting that you’ve interpreted it like that because I interpreted. Bjorn as being incredibly bored with his life. I felt that he was sort of in that, I think we all go through it at some point, you know, when you realize, you know, adult life can be so monotonous and, you know, responsibilities and there’s that.
Brief moment when they, they go back home after the Italian holiday. And Louise is saying, Oh, Agnes needs some new shoes. What do you think of these shoes? And shows them a picture and, Oh, and she’s going to need another little jacket as well. I think I might order her one of those. And that’s when he’s looking out of the window and I, I imagine him just being so bored and then later on as well, when he’s, he’s in the car talking to Patrick and, uh, and he starts describing, well, Patrick is describing, I get this feeling inside that I can’t express and I need to, to let this thing out.
And what he means, of course, is because actually I’m a serial killer.
As well, you know, yeah, this, this feeling, there must be more to life, that kind of thing. Cause I was watching, I felt really sorry for Bjorn, but I just wanted to say, Oh mate, Do you know what? Just have a quick affair or something that just get it out of your system.
Craig: I feel sorry for him in this situation because this is a terrible situation that he finds himself in with his family, but I don’t feel sorry for him for his life.
And I, I really kind of hate this trope of. People who are in long term relationships, like I’m, I’m so bored and I, like, I, I need something else. Oh God. Like you, you can be, you can be in a happy long term relationship. You
Todd: can be, but I mean, it’s not necessarily just a trope, Craig. It does happen to people just cause you’re happy.
I understand.
Craig: God, I understand it just bothers me like and and that scene that you were just talking about where they’re talking together in the car I 100 percent thought that they were gonna fuck
They did look at each other My mind
Jules: didn’t go though. Oh
Craig: my god I thought that Patrick is gonna whip his dick out and they were gonna go to town Huh?
Todd: That
Jules: would be a whole other movie.
Todd: That’s the way you wanted it to go, wasn’t
Craig: it? I don’t know, like, he, like, the bad guy is like
Clip: You know, sometimes I have this, this thing, right here.
And, and it’s so powerful and wild. And, and, and I like it. That’s the weird part. I, I really like it. You understand? Yeah. You do? Totally. Normally I just, uh, Just try to hold it down or Keep it in, keep it in chains. Why?
I don’t know why. Too many rules, I guess. It’s, um It’s what? I don’t know. It’s close, yeah, I don’t know, it’s close to fabric, you know? It’s like I’ve become this person that I don’t want to be.
Craig: Yeah, you know. What you’re supposed to do, but don’t you ever want to do what you’re not supposed to do? Like, uh, I think I’ve seen this movie.
Gosh, gosh, gosh. But I get it. You know, they, whatever. I would never do it, but they do, they go and they spend some time at the house. I’m like, everything’s okay for a while, but then everything’s weird. Like that’s. my problem with it. Like red flags and beyond that The red flags, they leave and then come back and stay.
Todd: That made me so angry,
Craig: but
Todd: I got it. I did not think, look, you can, you can look at it one way and say, I would never do that, but it doesn’t mean that it’s unrealistic. I think. I don’t think these people would do it. I don’t think they were unbelievable characters. Because it’s not like all these red flags all the time and they’re so severe, you know?
The first thing that really happens is when they’re out in the fields and Abel’s sitting on the slide and Agnes wants to slide down. There’s a language barrier. The parents all talk English to each other, but it seems like the kids can’t quite, I don’t know what it is, but anyway, one speaking Dutch, one speaking Danish.
Louisa asks Patrick, hey, you know, could you, could you maybe tell Abel to get off the slide so that she can go down? And he stomps over there and yanks him off the slide, quite forcefully, is like, apologize to her and whatnot. Now, he’s, he’s a bit rough with them, and this is the first time they’ve ever seen these parents deal with a kid who has an issue or something like that.
And. You know, I’ve been in situations like that where I’ve seen some parents and their parenting style is not something that I agree with. But, to me, that’s not like, oh, these people are weird. It’s like, oh, I don’t agree with this parenting style and it’s making me uncomfortable and I wish they would stop.
But Fine,
Craig: fine, fine,
Todd: but do
Craig: you want to be friends with them? Do you want to go stay at their house? Well,
Todd: if I’m already there and he’s a little rough with the boy and he’s like, no, you don’t need to be, it’s okay, you know, like, whatever. And
Craig: then Yeah, I don’t question people’s parenting styles either.
That’s not my place. I, I, I understand
Todd: that. The part that bothered me The part where I thought, Oh, my God, what is going on here? Is later that night, Louise expresses her feelings to Bjorn. She’s like, I don’t really feel comfortable here. And at first he feels like, well, he’s listening to her, but he’s like, well, maybe we can just manage it for another day, day and a half.
What’s the harm? And then almost immediately the next day in the morning, the woman comes in. Or might even be the next minute. The woman comes in, Karin, and says, Hey, we would like to take you out to our favorite restaurant here in town. And they’re like, Oh, that’s great. And as she leaves, Bjorn kind of looks at Louise and is like, So unpleasant, that woman, huh?
Like, you really think this is a big deal? But then, that night As they’re getting ready to go, a guy shows up and it’s the surprise babysitter.
Jules: This was the moment for me. This was the moment when I thought, no, okay, that’s it now. No, no, no, no, surely they’re not gonna do this. They’re not gonna say, yeah, okay, we’ll leave our child with this man we’ve never met in our lives before.
Doesn’t even
Todd: speak English. No way. That’s
Craig: hilarious to me.
Todd: That’s hilarious to me
Craig: because my parents So would have done that. Like if their, if their friends had hired a babysitter and we were just going to be there, that would be fine. They’re friends, not
Todd: their friends, but like they’re people they just met.
Jules: Exactly. I mean, I don’t know. I mean, he
Craig: seemed nice. I mean, like, how, how much do you vet a babysitter really? I mean, like, he seems,
Jules: well,
Craig: I don’t have kids. You’re right. I would probably, I would, yeah, I would, but no, like my parents were young, they were in their twenties. I was a kid and they wanted to. My parents are middle America people, and they’re not wild at all.
When I say they wanted to go out, like, maybe once in a while they wanted to be away from their children. If that meant that they had to hire a college student that they’d never met before,
Jules: I’m sure it’ll be fine. It’ll be fine. It just felt a bit different that obviously they didn’t, they didn’t know these people at all.
And you’re just taking somebody’s word for it that you’ve only known really for a matter, matter of hours and saying, well, yeah, that’ll be okay.
Craig: Yeah. What bothered me is that Agnes’s parents, obviously you can see in their performance that they’re hesitant. They’re reluctant. They, something doesn’t feel right.
And they keep going along with it anyway. And that’s true for most of the movie. And I get that. Honestly, guys, I’m a very, like, antisocial
Jules: person. I just
Craig: am so happy to just be by myself in my house because I’m crazy. Um, but I, I get it. Like a rational person would normally, you know, you give people the benefit of the doubt, but to what extent?
And I just can’t imagine as those parents, they obviously sense that something is wrong and they continue to sense it. I just can’t. Yeah, but they continue to stay like but yeah,
Todd: they yeah, they do but they’re they’re one foot out the door I mean, this is where it starts to really ratchet up like up to this point.
It’s kind of weird Yeah, but then at the dinner Patrick gets suddenly weird and confrontational about her Vegetarianism
Clip: and remember I’m a vegetarian. I’m
Todd: sorry.
Clip: Yes. I don’t eat meat. Oh, yes. Yes, so good for the environment Yes, but you eat fish, right? So you’re not a vegetarian, you’re a pescatarian. Yes.
And fish is not meat? Of course, um, but it’s better for the environment. And the way the fishing industry works and how we treat the oceans is not affecting the climate.
Todd: And they’re at this quiet restaurant that’s totally just them. It’s not really even a restaurant. It’s more like a bar with some tables.
Luisa’s getting drunk. They get up and dance and start making out. And at first, Bjorn and Luisa are like, Oh, you know, well, maybe we should get up and dance too. But then the other couple just starts going to town on each other. And it’s just making them so uncomfortable. And then when they go to leave Patrick looks at the bill and is like, Well, somebody had a good time tonight.
Craig: Yeah. I am out. I will pay that bill. I will pay that bill and I am f ing out. We’re done. Thank you.
Jules: I just, I thought exactly that. That would be the moment, wouldn’t it? Where you would go, right. Okay. Literally, you have to really cross the line now. Things can’t get any worse. Surely.
Todd: They’re driving drunk and their music’s loud and they won’t turn it down.
And they’re being rude. And. It wasn’t. Rude. Yeah. That was it for them. She, what, she takes a quick shower and it seems like, um, Patrick has come into the bathroom and is peeing while she’s brushing his teeth while she’s taking a shower. She comes back and they all agree. They both agree. We are leaving. So they get in the car and they go and to me this was like, you know, if this movie had gone any other way This is like they didn’t pass the test These couple did what they could to ratchet up to a thousand percent to see what would make this couple break This made them break and they left and then like you knew was gonna happen as they’re driving away This girl who we’ve already established loves her rabbit more than anything and the dad is like a little hero for going and fetching it Whenever she loses it.
She’s left a rabbit Oh my god. Oh my god. I was thinking, you remember Burnt Offerings? I was like so Burnt Offerings. It’s like, just go. Keep driving. You will get a new rabbit. Oh my god.
Craig: Don’t go back! Yeah. Yeah, so stupid and then and then when they go back like it turns out the rabbit was in the car the whole time That was so um, yeah
Todd: So cruel for the audience.
I felt so mad at the director for that.
Craig: Yeah, and then there And so then they’re back and the husband goes in, it was like, sorry, we left. And the bad dad is like, Oh, good. I just hate that you didn’t think we were good hosts. Yeah, he does that so well. I thought that was funny. And the wife, the wife does.
like, I’m sorry, our house isn’t a mansion and we really thought you’d be comfortable. Like, fine. I get it. Who cares? Leave, send them, send them a nice email.
Jules: I’ve written in my notes here, I’ve just made myself laugh, I’ve written in my notes that the part where when Louise is in the shower and Patrick walks in, he’s brushing his teeth, I’ve written, am I a victim blamer? Because I was really angry with her in that moment. I thought she doesn’t even have to, you know, you wouldn’t have to be aggressive about it, but you could just kind of go, Oh, hi, did you know I’m here?
I’m in the shower. Can you, you alright, just give me a You know, she just kind of stands there and freezes in the shower. I thought, her husband’s literally just over the way. So just say, oh mate, I’m just here. Can you give me a minute? But then, no, and then to choose to go back for a cuddly toy. Oh no, this was when I started to really feel, as I say, a little bit, and I did think, am I, am I a bad person?
Am I victim blaming? Am I saying they’re asking for it? What am I dreading? I don’t know. They’re not
Craig: asking
Jules: for it. Ratcheting it up really slowly, isn’t it? You know, bit by bit, these people kind of fall into the trap.
Craig: They’re not, I don’t think they’re asking for it, but they’re stupid. There’s no reason for it.
Like, and so many things happen. Like these people become, obviously, abusive to their own child who doesn’t speak because he doesn’t have a tongue, then I’ll just gloss over the point that the bad dad watches the nice couple and The and the good dad sees it and just doesn’t say anything
Jules: So weird and that was just after the shower scene as well She just got out of that shower obviously feeling really quite understandably Creeped out by it. She gets into bed with her husband and starts making out with him. And that felt a bit, that felt a bit weird to me. I wasn’t sure what was going on there, but okay.
I’m not, no judgment.
Craig: I mean, no, it’s fine. To be fair. They can have sex. Next, if they want, that’s fine, but you are in somebody else’s house. And like, honestly, this house seems super small. So it seems like all of the rooms are kind of connected and everybody can hear. Like, I don’t know, maybe calm down, but whatever, that’s fine.
But when you see the gross, so dad watching you, I mean, and you’re just like, whatever, that’s cool.
Todd: He glanced in, as he walked by in the hallway, he wasn’t like he was Standing there forever. I, I,
Craig: he was standing there. He only walked away. He only walked away.
Todd: He made
Craig: eye contact and walked away. Yes. He only, yes, he only walked away because the guy saw him.
Well, he was standing there watching them.
Todd: Yeah. Okay. Well this was also the same point at which the girl was trying to get into the bedroom. Yes. So her timing was poor. So obviously, you know, Patrick would be up because he was what we find out, he got the, he got the girl, he got, um, Agnes. The mother after they’re done banging gets up and is looking for Agnes and she’s not in her bed And it turns out she’s laying in bed with the other two couple with the other couple NAKED!
Craig: He’s naked,
Todd: yeah. NAKED! He’s naked, yeah.
Craig: That’s not okay! No, it’s not okay. And I feel like that’s the But this is the point I feel like that’s the thing that pushes them over the We really have to go and thank God they do. But then that God damn bunny and they come back.
Todd: No, no, no, no,
Craig: no. Am I going backwards?
You’re going
Todd: backwards. Yeah, this is, you’re going backwards. This is when, yeah. No, this, this, they decided they were definitely going to go. But then there’s shit happening with Patrick and Abel at night. Bjorn confronted Patrick about the bed thing. Patrick tried to make him feel guilty about it. Like, well, your daughter was crying.
Where were you? But then, like, some stuff happens with Patrick and Abel at night. He can hear, Bjorn can hear them kind of yelling and arguing. Doesn’t really understand. And at this point, you can see it on his face. He’s like, we’re going to leave, but it almost feels like this kid needs rescuing. And so he gets up and he follows Patrick.
Well, he kind of wakes up and walks around and he sees Patrick kind of go out to the garage. Sort of follows him out and around and he finds, Camera equipment inside. That’s like a shed or something. And there’s a staircase up the stairs. And when he gets to the top of the stairs, he sees all along the walls, all of these many photos of them posed with families, much like the photo that this family had sent them after their vacation in Italy.
And what he notices is. That in each of these photos, it’s like they’ve kid swapped. There’s a photo of them with this other family and their kid. And now they have that kid and he immediately knows what’s going on. He goes downstairs and he wanders out to where the, I guess is another building where the pool was, right?
And this, this was the part that really turned my stomach was when he walked into that pool and saw Abel floating face down.
Craig: Yes. It was horrifying. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, I knew what was going on. I knew these people were crazy. I knew that they were grooming or whatever their victims. I didn’t know exactly what was going to happen, but to see them posed with all of these other families with their.
At the time, child, and then, you know, the victim parents with their child, they’re just doing this. It made me sick. And then, I really think that the most shocking thing From this movie, you know, despite the fact that Abel or whatever the kid’s name is, has been kidnapped and tortured and blah, blah, blah, to see him floating dead in the swimming pool, really, really upset.
Jules: Yeah, it is. That’s upsetting, isn’t it? It is a really upsetting moment. But you know, I thought that the actor who plays Bjorn, I thought, Thought he was absolutely brilliant. Did you? Cause all the way, all the way through the movie, I’ve been so frustrated with him, so annoyed by him. And then to see his facial expression, you all know, you see the penny drop when he’s looking at the photographs and you think, thank God.
Okay. Now he’s going to leave. And then. He’s confronted with that horrific moment of seeing this poor, poor little boy floating in the pool. And I just thought the act, that actor was so good. Yeah. I thought his facial expressions were absolutely spot on. So yeah. Horrific scene, but absolutely brilliantly done.
I
Todd: thought. Oh, he was brilliant. So amazing.
Craig: Yes. Agreed. Agreed. I think that the acting in this movie is fantastic. I think this is a really good movie. I think that it is beautifully shot. I think that the acting is fantastic. It’s very suspenseful going in. If you don’t know what you’re getting into, it’s shocking.
And there are a lot of twists. Like, I think it’s a great movie.
Jules: Yeah,
Craig: I suppose it is very difficult to watch because, and I think for me, the reason that is difficult to watch is because as anti social as I am, I could potentially find myself in a situation like this, that I’ve tried to be nice and now I don’t know how to get out of it.
Jules: Yes.
Craig: Yeah. Ultimately, I, I think that that’s what the big struggle is. They try to be nice and they’re trying to get out of it, but they don’t know how. And then in act three, it turns into something totally different where these people are in fact psychopaths. They are doing this. Apparently, systematically.
And we don’t know why. Like, We never find out. We don’t know why! No! And, like, is it just them? I, I, I did read that they had initially intended to The finale was supposed to be larger. That, like, it was, like, supposed to be, like, a religious sect that was sacrificing people and, and yeah, me too. Me too. I am too.
I prefer that. It’s just these crazy people.
Jules: Yes. The fact that it’s meaningless makes it more horrific, doesn’t it? I mean, obviously it’s horrific anyway, regardless. But the fact that there is no real motivation, no real purpose, it’s, it just is, that’s, what’s really scary. I think. Well, and th
2026-01-10
