Europe’s defence dilemma

Donald Trump has only been US president for just over a month and yet the world order seems to be changing by the day. Ukraine has been cut adrift with the pausing of US military aid and intelligence following President Zelensky’s disastrous meeting in the Oval Office. And Europe has been left wondering what is coming next as President Macron of France warns that the continent is "at a turning point in history." Europe faces not only having to support Ukraine without the US but potentially having to defend itself against Russia with no help from America. So can it do that? And how quickly could it fill the gaps left by the US?

Guests: Frank Gardner, BBC Security Correspondent Shashank Joshi, Defence Editor, The Economist Claudia Major, Director international security division at the German Institute for International and Security Affairs. Fenella McGerty Senior Fellow for Defence Economics, International Institute for Strategic Studies

Presenter David Aaronovitch Producers: Kirsteen Knight, Beth Ashmead Latham, Caroline Bayley Sound Engineer: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Gemma Ashman Editor: Richard Vadon

(Image: Soldiers in silhouette. Credit: Photo by Martin Divisek/EPA-EFE/REX/Shutterstock)