Donald Trump can seem like a political anomaly. You sometimes hear people describe his connection with his base in quasi-mystical terms. But really, Trump is an example of an archetype — the right-wing populist showman — that recurs across time and place. There’s Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, Boris Johnson in Britain, Javier Milei in Argentina. And there’s a long lineage of this type in the United States too.
So why is there this consistent demand for this kind of political figure? And why does this set of qualities — ethnonationalist politics and an entertaining style — repeatedly appear at all?
John Ganz is the writer of the newsletter Unpopular Front and the author of the forthcoming book “When the Clock Broke: Con Men, Conspiracists, and How America Cracked Up in the Early 1990s.” In this conversation, we discuss how figures like David Duke and Pat Buchanan were able to galvanize the fringes of the Republican Party; Trump’s specific brand of TV-ready charisma; and what liberals tend to overlook about the appeal of this populist political aesthetic.
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
“Right-Wing Populism” by Murray N. Rothbard
“The ‘wave’ of right-wing populist sentiment is a myth” by Larry Bartels
“How we got here” by Matthew Yglesias
Book Recommendations:
What Hath God Wrought? by Daniel Walker Howe
After Nationalism by Samuel Goldman
The Politics of Cultural Despair by Fritz R. Stern
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing from Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.
How Right-Wing Media Ate the Republican Party
A Revelatory Tour of Martin Luther King Jr.’s Forgotten Teachings
A Guide to the ‘Legal Fictions’ That Create Wealth, Inequality and Economic Crises
Dan Savage on Polyamory, Chosen Family and Better Sex
A Skeptical Take on the A.I. Revolution
Sabbath and the Art of Rest
Best Of: How America's Poet Laureate Sees Our World
Best Of: Want to Save Democracy? Run For Office.
Best Of: Who Wins — and Who Loses — in the A.I. Revolution?
Best Of: Is A.I. the Problem? Or Are We?
What I'm Thinking About at the End of 2022
Time Is Way Weirder Than You Think
Three Signals We’ve Entered a New Economic Era
There’s Been a Massive Change in Where American Policy Gets Made
A Conservative’s Take on the Chaotic State of the Republican Party
The Hidden Costs of Cheap Meat
This Conversation About the 'Reading Mind' Is a Gift
Bill McKibben on the Power That Could Save the Planet
I Don’t Quite Buy the DeSantis Narrative, and Other Midterm Thoughts
George Saunders on the ‘Braindead Megaphone’ That Makes Our Politics So Awful
Create your
podcast in
minutes
It is Free
The Daily
Fresh Air
Today, Explained
The Rest Is History
Modern Love