When the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, it scrambled the landscape of abortion access in America, including in ways that one might not entirely expect. Many conservative states made the procedure essentially illegal — that part was predictable. But there’s also been this striking backlash in blue states, with many of them making historic efforts to expand abortion access, for both their residents and for women living in abortion-restricted states.
And this has created all kinds of new battle lines — between states, and states and the federal government — involving travel, speech, privacy and executive power. It’s an explosion of conflicts and constitutional questions that the legal historian Mary Ziegler says has no parallel in modern times. She’s the author of six books on reproductive rights in America, including “Roe: The History of a National Obsession,” and the Martin Luther King Jr. professor of law at the University of California, Davis. “We’re seeing, from conservative and progressive states, moves to project power outside of their borders in ways we really haven’t seen in a really long time,” she told me.
In this conversation, Ziegler explains the bifurcated abortion landscape that has emerged since the decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization overturned Roe. We discuss the different political and legal strategies conservative and progressive states are using to pursue their opposing goals; why the abortion rate has gone up, even as 14 states have implemented near-total bans on abortion; and how a second Trump administration could try to restrict access to abortion for all Americans, no matter what states they live in.
Mentioned:
“Harsh Anti-abortion Laws Are Not Empty Threats” by Mary Ziegler
Book Recommendations:
The Family Roe by Joshua Prager
Tiny You by Jennifer L. Holland
Defenders of the Unborn by Daniel K. Williams
“Before Roe v. Wade” by Linda Greenhouse and Reva B. Siegel
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Claire Gordon and Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing from Efim Shapiro. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Rollin Hu. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.
How Right-Wing Media Ate the Republican Party
A Revelatory Tour of Martin Luther King Jr.’s Forgotten Teachings
A Guide to the ‘Legal Fictions’ That Create Wealth, Inequality and Economic Crises
Dan Savage on Polyamory, Chosen Family and Better Sex
A Skeptical Take on the A.I. Revolution
Sabbath and the Art of Rest
Best Of: How America's Poet Laureate Sees Our World
Best Of: Want to Save Democracy? Run For Office.
Best Of: Who Wins — and Who Loses — in the A.I. Revolution?
Best Of: Is A.I. the Problem? Or Are We?
What I'm Thinking About at the End of 2022
Time Is Way Weirder Than You Think
Three Signals We’ve Entered a New Economic Era
There’s Been a Massive Change in Where American Policy Gets Made
A Conservative’s Take on the Chaotic State of the Republican Party
The Hidden Costs of Cheap Meat
This Conversation About the 'Reading Mind' Is a Gift
Bill McKibben on the Power That Could Save the Planet
I Don’t Quite Buy the DeSantis Narrative, and Other Midterm Thoughts
George Saunders on the ‘Braindead Megaphone’ That Makes Our Politics So Awful
Create your
podcast in
minutes
It is Free
The Modern West
The Daily
Fresh Air
Today, Explained
The Rest Is History
Modern Love