It's great to have Clive Washbourn back on the show. The Episode I recorded with him two years ago has been the most downloaded of any so far, so it’s obviously going to be good for business to do a follow-up.
But it’s more than that. Clive is one of those people who is famous in the market. He is someone who people tell stories about, so you’ve heard about him even if you haven’t met him.
So when he founded his Navium MGA it was a no-brainer to ask him on the show. I had no idea what to expect. What happened was Clive being an absolute force of nature and one of the most revealing and fun interviews I have ever been a party to.
We did that one under a lockdown over a video call. This time we are face-to-face in Navium’s office on Lime Street in the heart of the London market.
It makes a huge difference to be physically in the room with someone like Clive. He really comes alive.
What follows is another tour de force which reveals what is driving this remarkable marine MGA and what has pushed it to produce an amazing $360mn in gross written premium.
We talk about the market, Clive’s business philosophy and where Navium is heading and how it fits in with Pine Walk and the wider, and now restructured, Fidelis operation.
But because this is Clive, we get into something that we rarely talk about elsewhere:
Listening back, we grapple with the true art of underwriting and how to play yourself into a strong market position. We learn how you can be a really technical underwriter without being the least bit boring and how you need to be ultra-selective and teach yourself to maximise opportunities whenever they arise.
We also get an idea of how you can turn down large amounts of under-priced business but at the same time make the brokers keep coming back to see you.
After two interviews I’ve got my own theory. I think people come to see Clive because they really enjoy his company.
I think he is someone you could talk to about anything and he would make it an interesting conversation and an honest an unflinching exchange of views. I get the feeling Clive makes all the people he talks to feel understood and special.
Here Clive even reveals a historical interest in the battle of Waterloo and burnishes his prog rock credentials by bursting straight into song!
We both had a lot of fun – and I learned a huge amount - and so will you.
NOTES
Abbreviations:
TLO is a Hull insurance abbreviation for Total Loss Only.
ULR is the Ultimate (Net) Loss ratio.
Rinku Patel is mentioned as being in the room with us. He is CEO of Navium’s incubator Pine Walk and is also now COO of Fidelis MGU as well as being its UK CEO.
The quote ‘No battle plan survives the first shots of war/first contact with the enemy’ has been attributed to many, including Napoleon, but probably dates back to an 1871 paper by Prussian Field Marshal, Helmuth von Moltke.
And finally, here’s a link to the 1973 progressive rock classic Karn Evil 9 by Emerson, Lake & Palmer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLS0Med0s6E the original had to be split into 3 parts so that it could fit on a vinyl LP! Clive’s part comes in at 8’40”…
LINKS
We thank our naming sponsor AdvantageGo:
https://www.advantagego.com/
Ep 47 Pat Ryan: Build a business people are proud to work for
Ep 46 The Best Market for a Decade: David Croom-Johnson MD Aegis London
Ep 45 Selling certainty, with Stefan Golling Chief Underwriter Munich Re
Ep 44 Juan Andrade of Everest Re: An Underwriter’s market
Ep 43 Swimming as the tide goes out, with Laurent Rousseau Deputy CEO of Scor Global P&C
Ep 42 Coverholders in a box: Stephen Card of Carbon Underwriting
Ep 41 A Great Time to be an Underwriter. With Tim Carter CUO of Argo Group
Ep 40 Rule your niche with Andrew Robinson of HIIG
Ep 39 Slaying the myths of Legacy with Tom Booth of Darag
Ep 38 The future of insurance is now, with Stephen Brittain of the Insurtech Gateway
Ep 37 Capital Masterclass with Vicky Carter of Guy Carpenter
Ep 36 Howden plans with José Manuel González and Barnaby Rugge-Price
Ep 35 Re-shaping Aspen with Mark Cloutier
Ep 34 Worldwide ambition with Mike Reynolds of Oneglobal
Ep 33 Seizing a golden opportunity with Franz-Josef Hahn of Peak Re
Ep 32 The mid-year renewals with James Vickers, Chair of Willis Re International
Ep 31 Andrew Horton: Beazley, the hard market and the new Lloyd's
Ep 30 Steve McGill: Rip up your original business plan...
Ep 29 John Ludlow of Airmic: Insurance falling short of high standards and founding principles
Ep 28 Meet the Lloyd's Gatekeeper - Julian Tighe of Asta
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