This episode we present an exclusive interview with Paul Symon AO, Director-General of the Australian Secret Intelligence Service, ASIS. As Australia’s “top spook”, Paul is the only member of his organisation who can legally be identified. Indeed, the existence of ASIS was not publicly acknowledged until 1977 and not brought under formal legislation until 2001.
This is a great privilege for us because this is the first time Paul has ever given a public interview.
Bearing in mind “the inevitable paradox inherent in publicising the achievements of an organisation whose activities are, by design, secret”, Allan commences the interview by asking Paul to describe what ASIS does (in a general sense), why Australia needs it, and to describe some of its achievements. Paul then speaks to the vital question of how the Australian public can be confident that ASIS is acting in ways consistent with our law and values given it operates in secret. Other questions include how ASIS decides what information to collect, how it manages technology in the 21st century, how it conducts risk assessments, and its work with both the Australian Defence Force (ADF) and the Five Eyes Partnership. Darren asks a personal question about the intersection of publicly available information and secret information in the context of public policy debates. The discussion finishes on the topic of recruitment – how can Australians come to work for ASIS and what kind of people are sought?
Paul’s answers are fascinating and really offer remarkable insight into a unique (and normally very secretive) organisation.
As always, we invite our listeners to email us at this address: australia.world.pod@gmail.com We welcome feedback, requests and suggestions. You can also contact Darren on twitter @limdarrenj
Our thanks go to AIIA intern Charlie Henshall for his help with audio editing, Rory Stenning for composing our theme music, and Martyn Pearce for technical assistance in studio.
Relevant links
Paul Symon’s biography: https://www.asis.gov.au/About-Us/Message-from-DG.html
ASIS homepage: https://www.asis.gov.au/
“The most interesting job in the world”: http://www.morehumanintelligence.com.au/
Frances Adamson, DFAT Secretary, on our 50th episode
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Ep. 48: Harinder Sidhu, former High Commissioner to India, on the Australia-India relationship
Ep. 47: Heather Smith on fixing the G20, industrial policy, tech competition, and what economists get wrong
Ep. 46: Australia-China tensions over a Covid-19 inquiry
Ep. 45: The WHO; “mask diplomacy”; DFAT & Covid-19
Ep. 44: The United States, and the alliance
Ep. 43: The consequences of Covid-19
Ep. 42: Covid-19 update; ASIO speaks; Morrison hosts Jokowi & Ardern
Ep. 41: Richard Maude on the Indo-Pacific, models of world politics, and Australian foreign policy
Ep. 40: Coronavirus; Huawei in the UK; the WTO, and UK / EU trade deals
Ep. 39: The 2020 Raisina Dialogue
Ep. 38: Gordon de Brouwer on economics vs security, climate change, and effective policymaking
Ep. 37: The bushfires, internationally; the Soleimani killing; reviewing 2019, looking ahead to 2020
Ep. 36: Ex-ASIO head Duncan Lewis (Part 2): foreign interference and national security policymaking in Australia
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Ep. 34: All things China (again)! Defectors? Sleeper agents? MP visas & Hong Kong
Ep. 33: US leadership: vision vs reality; RCEP; human rights in China; Syria, the Kurds and US credibility
Ep. 32: The Australia-China Relationship
Ep. 31: Debating PM Morrison’s Lowy Lecture
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