Podcast Marketing Without Social Media with Amanda Laird - EP 91

How do you know if social media is really worth it? Social media inundates almost every aspect of our lives these days, from communicating with friends to deciding what to listen to, watch, or buy—all the way down the line to actually listening to, watching, and buying it. So, of course, many podcast creators worry that leaving social media behind is an enormous marketing faux pas.

But what if it isn’t? Amanda Laird is the marketing pro behind Slow and Steady Studio. She wields more than two decades of PR and management experience to help small businesses and non-profits do just enough marketing to reach their goals in ways that make sense for them. In this episode, Amanda shares plenty of tips for figuring out whether that social media slog is paying off.

You’ll discover the link between podcasting and social media, as well as the first steps to determining exactly how social media marketing serves your podcast—and how your podcast serves you—so you can make strategic decisions that drive success rather than drive you crazy.

Hear Amanda’s insights on how essential social media really is to podcast marketing:

• What benefits are social media providing for your show?
• Where does podcasting fit in your marketing sandwich?
• What is your podcast’s consistent call to action?
• Should you consider moving your podcast to Substack?

Links worth mentioning from the episode:

• Amelia Hruby’s podcast episode, “Should I host my podcast on Substack?”: https://www.softersounds.studio/softercast/should-i-host-my-podcast-on-substack
• Episode 87, “Find Podcast Success While Doing Less”: https://www.organizedsound.ca/find-podcast-success-while-doing-less-episode-87/
• The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illnesss by Johnathan Haidt - https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-anxious-generation-how-the-great-rewiring-of-childhood-is-causing-an-epidemic-of-mental-illness-jonathan-haidt/20144236?ean=9780593655030&next=t&next=t
• Engage with Amanda:
  Get some podcast clarity for your marketing with Amanda: https://www.slowandsteady.studio/

Connect with Mary!

• Leave a voice note with your feedback at https://www.speakpipe.com/VisibleVoice or email visiblevoicepodcast@gmail.com
• Get the full transcript of the episode at http://www.visiblevoicepodcast.com
• Read up on more secrets with the Visible Voice Insights Newsletter https://www.organizedsound.ca/newsletter
• To learn more or work with Mary, check out https://www.organizedsound.ca
• Link up on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/marychan-organizedsound/
• Engage on Instagram @OrganizedSoundProductions https://www.instagram.com/organizedsoundproductions

Show Credits:

• Podcast audio design, engineering, and edited by Mary Chan of Organized Sound Productions
• Show notes written by Shannon Kirk of Right Words Studio
• Post-production support by Kristalee Forre of Forre You VA
• Podcast cover art by Emily Johnston of Artio Design Co.

Transcript with Audio Description:

[MUSIC IN - GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET’S GO” BEGINS]

MARY: There's no shortage of distraction these days. We are digitally connected, and there's so much we can learn or be entertained by, especially from the world of social media. And today it's even more heightened because of all the research into how social media is playing a negative role in our mental health, and especially with kids growing up in this digital, like, hyper digital age. You know, recently, last year, there was Jonathan Haidt's wildly popular book called The Anxious Generation, how it connects social media to the epidemic of teen mental illness. 

Yet, as podcasters, we use social media without thinking much about it sometimes. We use it to promote our show. And if you have a business or organization that's tied to the podcast, that you need to talk about your message too, and it's all done on our screens, and it feels as if social media is the number one way to market the show, or sometimes even, like, the only way to market your show. So as a podcaster, we might think without social media, your message might sink without it. However, there really are alternatives. We marketed way before social media even existed. And so I've always thought, why can't we still market today like we did back in the day before social media existed? 

So on today's episode, we're talking about marketing without social media with Amanda Laird. Amanda is the Founder of Slow and Steady Studio and a marketing communications strategist. She has more than 20 years of experience in communications and PR and management, and now helps solopreneurs, small businesses, and nonprofit organizations do what she calls “just enough marketing to reach their goals their way”. 

And I love the idea of just enough marketing because I worked with her on one of her Clarity Sessions about two years ago. You know, my side of the story, which I tell briefly on the episode, is basically realizing how social media actually plays a role in my business and podcast, or actually the lack of a role social media actually plays and what I can be doing instead of social media. But also knowing it might play a little part in what I do. So I am still on it. So it's about talking about how to best use my time and stop that doom scrolling. 

Amanda and I also get into Substack. I really wanted to highlight this with her because it's the new shiny object for podcasters and the Internet. So Substack is heavily using podcasting and video on their platform. So if you're wondering about Substack, listen through to the whole episode and how that can or cannot integrate with your podcast. So, yeah, if you're curious or just wondering if you should be giving up on social media or even figuring out if you want to do less on these social platforms. Today's episode is for you. 

This is episode number 91 with Amanda Laird on the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice. 

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MARY: Amanda thank you so much for coming on the show and rescheduling with me due to my sick brain fog. You know how it is.

[INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

AMANDA: Thank you for having me, Mary. I will always find the time to chat with you.

MARY: Oh, thank you. I know, like, we were, I was thinking back before this, I was like, oh, when did we first, like, meet online? And it was like, when I first started my podcast production business, was it freelance? I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. And I don't remember how we were connected, but we were connected. And I was like, oh, sparks are flying.

AMANDA: That was many, many years ago, too.

MARY: Yeah, that was like, 2018, I believe.

AMANDA: I think it was.

MARY: Anyway, things have shifted in more ways than one between, like, what we do and social media these days. And that's what we're going to talk about. So I always say podcasting is not social media because sometimes people are like, well, isn't it social media? So I just want you to give the lay of the land, first of all, and help us define, what is social media?

AMANDA: Oh, is this not the question of our times Mary? Okay, so I went to Wikipedia. Wikipedia defines social media as, interactive technologies that facilitate the creation, sharing, and aggregation of content among virtual communities and networks. So in simple terms, that's your Facebook, your Twitter, your X, your Blue Sky threads, Instagram. These platforms that have become, like, the backbone of our communications personally and professionally. Where we are logging on and posting, there's text, videos. Oh, I can't believe I forgot TikTok on that list.

MARY: Oh, yeah.

AMANDA: Videos, images, whatever content we're posting on these platforms that's then distributed to our friends, followers, whatever the platform calls it.

MARY: So then would podcasting be under that category?

AMANDA: I don't think so. Okay. I'm taking a pause. 

MARY: Yeah. [LAUGHTER]

AMANDA: I mean, okay, in some ways, I guess you could argue that perhaps it's social media, but at the same time, I don't think it is. Because podcasting is distributed to a lot of different channels, right?Like, when I upload my podcast to my podcast host, then it's going out to Apple podcasts. It's going to, you know, all the places where people listen to podcasts. And I think one of the defining differences, too, with social media, and I'm putting, like, my Old PR school hat on when I say this like also with social media or what the promise of social media was way back at the turn of the century was a two way conversation.

MARY: Yeah, I think that too…

AMANDA: Right?

MARY: ...That's what I was thinking.

AMANDA: Yeah. And so yes, I do think that podcasts do facilitate a two way conversation, but that conversation isn't happening on the podcast, right? Like we put the podcast out into the ether and then that two way conversation might actually happen on social media that the podcast instigates, but it's not happening like on the podcast… 

MARY: Yeah.

AMANDA: …if that makes sense.

MARY: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so then, now that we can sort of have like, a good foundation of what that is. Like marketing existed before social media. You know, we were marketing snake oil back in the day, right? So like, how can we market today without social media? What foundations should we be looking at first? What should we be considering?

AMANDA: These are great questions and definitely some of the most topical questions with my clients and in communities that I'm a part of, running a mostly online business. First, before I dive into some of the practical things, I just really cannot say enough that if you want to market your business without social media, or put it another way, if you don't want to use social media to market your business, then that is 100% possible. I really think, and I'm thinking about what I just said a couple minutes ago about how social media has become such a critical part of our professional and personal communications, but as social media has risen in popularity, we have all kind of forgotten that yeah, there is other ways to do this online and offline as well. 

So if you are feeling like you're getting that little intuitive hit that you'd like to do less social media marketing or you would like to leave entirely for relying on social media, it's 100% possible. So that said, whenever I'm chatting with somebody about marketing with social media, without social media, or really any tactic for that matter, I think the first place to start is to get really, really clear about what role social media marketing is currently playing in your business. So when I'm talking about marketing communications in my framework, which I like to call the Just Enough Framework, we have layers of different marketing objectives that we want our marketing to achieve for us, right? We and this very similar to a classic marketing funnel. So this will likely feel familiar to anybody who's familiar with the funnel.

MARY: The funnel, the funnel. [LAUGHTER]

AMANDA: I mean, we could do a whole other episode on the funnel, right?

MARY: You'll have to come back for that. [LAUGHTER]

AMANDA: So we are never ever just marketing for the sake of marketing. Like marketing is this great big vague umbrella term. But when we think about, okay, what are we actually trying to do when we're marketing our business? Number one, we're trying to attract new clients and customers, build an audience, build awareness of our brand. Then once people know who we are, we want them to connect with us in some way, right? This is where your brand story comes into play. This is where content marketing or even just your website comes into play so people can understand your business, understand your service offerings, your products, your point of view, what makes you unique, differentiates you from your competitors. How do I work with you? All of those good things. 

Some, you know, common term is like, this is the know, like, and trust type layer of your marketing. And then once people know who we are, once they have decided that we can solve their problem or meet their needs, right? Then it links in with our sales process. So we have marketing tactics that are designed to sell our products and services. 

So when you're evaluating your social media, I like to go through all of the ways that we're using social media and kind of map them to those objectives, right? Like, are we using social media to find new clients? Are we just using it as a way to share our point of view or to talk about our approach or what makes us unique? And are we using some of those social selling tools that are available on these platforms? Or is there a call to action that's like a buy now kind of call to action in your social media content? 

Now, I did a workshop about this recently and as I was talking about this, I could just hear that David Beckham meme from the Beckham's Netflix documentary where he was like, be honest, be honest. [LAUGHTER] Because what I see a lot is we think social media is doing one or more of those things that I just outlined, but maybe it's not. Maybe it's not actually moving the needle in our business. And so this is why it's so important to start at ah, this point. Because number one, if it is contributing to building awareness, connecting and converting clients, then you need to plan how you are going to fill those gaps. And if you take a look at your social media and you audit your social media and you realize, oh, wait a second, it's not really doing any of these things or it's not doing what I thought it was, then you want to maybe take another step back and look at the bigger picture and think, okay, well, how actually are my clients finding me?... 

MARY: Yeah, exactly 

AMANDA: …How am I marketing? Because what I have this. It's. I mean, I'm kind of laughing because it seems so simple, but I've had countless conversations with folks who are like, oh, well, social media doesn't do anything for my business, but I don't know what else to do. And then when I start to pull at those threads, oh, it turns out that actually they are doing a lot of marketing. Often it has to do with word of mouth, referrals, relationships, networking. But we have just come to equate marketing with social media. And even beyond that, I feel like we have come to equate it with Instagram in particular, especially for online businesses. And people are actually doing a lot of marketing outside of social media and then they don't even realize it because for some reason they think it doesn't count.

MARY: Yeah, because they're like, oh, if you have a business or you have an organization or you want to market something, you have to be on social media. You have to have an Instagram account or you have to be on LinkedIn. And if you don't have that, you're not an established legitimate business. And so like, I think we get that fear of, oh, well, we, we want to look professional. So we, I guess we have to be in all the places, you know? So when you're talking about tactics, I think a lot of people are like, tactic, social media, check. 

AMANDA: Mhmm, Mhmm.

MARY: So is that the approach for tactics? Like what, what is this?

AMANDA: Well, you know, one thing I will also say too is like, I have a lot of empathy and you know, I'm a small business owner too, right? So I have been in this place myself. I have done all of these things before. But what I, I talk a lot about, like social media also feels like we have a lot of control over it in a way that maybe some other marketing tactics feel like we have to relinquish a little bit of control. Like if I'm relying on referrals from my past clients or my network, well, doesn't that just mean that I have to wait for Mary to recommend me to her clients…

MARY: Right.

AMANDA: …and there's nothing I can do? Oftentimes, especially with solo service provider, especially women entrepreneurs, although I don't think it's expensive, exclusive to women. We are like freaking out about our business in some way and committing random acts of marketing…

MARY: Random acts of marketing, yes. [LAUGHTER]

AMANDA: …Which is just like the totally unstrategic, like posts that you just throw up on social, right? Or maybe you just throw it up there on social where you're like, my books are open. I've got two spots available. And now we can cross marketing off of our to do list check, right? We get that dopamine hit the likes. If we're lucky, people see it…

MARY: Yes.

AMANDA: …And then the likes and the shares and the comments start rolling in. And now we feel good, right?

MARY: Right, right.

AMANDA: Which is part of the reason why giving up social media maybe feels so scary, right?

MARY: Yeah. I mean, I remember I booked a session with you. We worked together, I think, like, two years ago now, and you had asked me that same question, and I was like, well, I think I'm on social media, but I don't really like it, but I'm on there. And actually I was looking back, I was like, oh, actually I get, like, a lot of my work through referrals, or actually, Google right now is working for me. So then you were like, then why are you on social media? I was like, oh, yeah, right. Why am I? [LAUGHTER]

AMANDA: It's true, because, half of the reason why I even started my business was because I was so tired of, like, just seeing social media at the top of every listicle for how to market your small business, right?

MARY: No, it doesn't have to be that way.

AMANDA: Exactly. And like, I don't want to sound too much like a conspiracy theorist here, but, like, think about it. Who is benefiting from our belief that we have to be on social media? It's not my business. My business isn't making money from that. But even if we're not investing dollars into ads on platforms like Facebook or Instagram or TikTok, if we're not doing any advertising, we're still paying with our time and our attention and our data…

MARY: Information

AMANDA: …Exactly. And when you're a small business owner, there's the time that you spend actually doing your social media marketing, and then there's the time that you spend fretting about doing your social media marketing, right? [LAUGHTER] So how much time and energy are we even like? It's. It's exponential how much we're paying for these platforms.

MARY: So let's switch then to podcasting itself is also a form of marketing. So then I feel like there's this catch 22 of, well I also have to market the podcast, which is my marketing vehicle, so then…

AMANDA: Mhmm.

MARY: …what the heck should I be doing? [LAUGHTER]

AMANDA: Yeah, that's such a great point. And this is something that I see lots of folks bumping up against, right? And I would say, yes, podcasting, but any type of content marketing, whether you're making videos or you're making YouTube videos, or you're writing blogs, or you've got freebies, or any type of content marketing, needs to have a distribution strategy. So it's that planning and that thinking through the tactics has to happen twice. Like, we need to understand, okay, if I'm going to start a podcast or I'm hosting a podcast, or I'm producing a podcast as part of my marketing strategy, where does that fit into my marketing sandwich, as I like to call it?

MARY: Oh, I love your sandwich analogy. Makes me hungry all the time too. Do explain.

AMANDA: Well, yeah, I mean, this is just my alternative to the funnel, right? Instead of thinking of it like a funnel, I think of it like a sandwich. Because we can put different layers. So that attraction, connection, conversion layers, and how much we put into each layer really depends on the resources that we have available to us. What are our goals, what is our energy like for marketing? You know, if you're running a small business, sometimes you run into a problem where your marketing was actually successful, successful, and now you're booked and busy and now you don't have time to market, right. So maybe you need to pull back a little bit on how much you're marketing, right. So that's why I like the sandwich, because it can change. It evolves quarter to quarter, year to year, however you kind of plan what the seasons in your business are. 

So thinking about your podcast, where in your sandwich does the podcast fit? Is this how you are trying to actually go out there and find new clients? Or once your clients have found you through other channels, through that visibility layer, through that attraction layer, visibility tactics or attraction tactics. Now that I know who you are and your business sounds interesting and maybe this is somebody who I could learn from, maybe this is somebody who could help solve my problem, then I'm going to tune into the podcast and it's more of an it's more about connection, right? So you have to really understand what the big picture strategy of the podcast is first, right?

MARY: Yes, totally.

AMANDA: Number one. And so if you know, you're a solo podcaster and you're sharing your IP or sharing your point of view on your podcast, then chances are that's probably more just in the connection piece right?

MARY: Yes, the relationship building podcast.

AMANDA: Exactly. But maybe your podcast has guests, and so you have a strategy around who you're going to invite to talk on your podcast, because then they're going to share it with their community and it's going to share it with their clients and their networks, and then that will bring people into your ecosystem. So that's step one. And then once you understand the role that your podcast is going to play in your marketing and how it's going to serve your business. Okay, now we need to kind of go through and make your podcast its own little sandwich, right?

MARY: Another sandwich. [LAUGHTER]

AMANDA: Yes, exactly. It's a sandwich in the sandwich. And you need to think through those same things. Like, okay, well, how. How are people gonna find out about this podcast?

MARY: Yeah, I think people jump to that always first.

AMANDA: 100%. Like, I have talked to a lot of people because I don't currently host a podcast, but I have in the past, right? So, people often ask me questions about podcasting. Although podcasting in 2018 was definitely different than podcasting in 2025. But all that to say, you know, people think, especially when people are like, well, I don't want to market on social media, so I'm going to start a podcast. And it's like, okay, great idea. So how are people going to find out about the podcast? You need to have that distribution strategy. 

So what are some of the ways that people can find out about your podcast outside of social media? Number one, having an SEO strategy for your podcast, right? I that's the right fit, maybe making sure that you know all the places in your podcast descriptions and your episode titles that those things are optimized for what your potential clients might be searching for, right? Making sure that your website is also aligned. Like you had said that Google's and search traffic is bringing you a lot of clients these days. So making sure, like, if that's the right fit for your business, right? Making sure that people know that you have a podcast when they come to your website. Like, that seems so simple, but sometimes it is hidden, right?

MARY: Yeah, it's hard to find.

AMANDA: So putting it front and center, right? Being a guest on other people's podcasts, right? People who like podcasts listen to podcasts. So if you want people to listen to your podcast, then, you know, you could try being a guest. I mentioned earlier having a strategy around guests, a guesting strategy, and then working your network, working your referrals. Like, are there folks that you could do ad swaps with? Are there folks that you could do feature swaps with? There's so many options for low cost, like newsletter classified ads these days. And this is something that I've had a lot of success with in my business for building my audience. 

And so some well placed ads that are aligned with your exact target audience is a way to kind of get the word out with your podcast. But this also goes back to really being clear on the role that your podcast plays in your business. And so if I find out about your business and your podcast is the place where I'm going to connect and I'm going to build that relationship with you as a potential service provider or as a customer, then you need to make sure that all roads lead to the podcast, right?

MARY: All roads do, hopefully. Yep.

AMANDA: And then once I get to the podcast, then what happens next? Because I love podcasting. I think it can be very effective for a serve, uh, for a business as a marketing channel. But you also don't want it to be like an escalator to nowhere. Once I listen to your podcast, now what happens? What do you want me to do? And so making sure that on your podcast that you have really clear next steps and a really clear call to action, telling people what to do now. Do you want people to sign up to your newsletter so that you can use email marketing to sell to them? Do you have, like, a strategic freebie that you use, like, download the template that you can, you know, fill out as you listen to this episode? That's like an old Amy Porterfield play from, like, way back in the day that I still think is very helpful, right? And you know somebody who I think is very good at this is my friend Amelia Hruby, who coincidentally hosts a podcast called Off The Grid, and it is all about marketing without social media…

MARY: She's great. I was on an online conference with her, too. She's great.

AMANDA: …Amazing. Amazing. Yeah, she's great. But what she's also really good at is having that consistent call to action, right. So as soon as you tune into her podcast, she's suggesting that you download her toolkit. Anytime she's a guest on a podcast, the call to action is download the toolkit, right. And then it puts you onto an email list so she can stay in touch with you, right? That's not to say that that's the strategy and the template that we should all be following, but my point is, is having that, like, clear next steps. Once they've listened to this podcast, what do you want people to do next?

MARY: Yeah, and that leads me actually to. And I know you were saying this isn't like the thing that everybody should. Be doing, but we are talking newsletter, email list. And the big thing right now is Substack. People are thinking, okay, if I move my newsletter to Substack and they do podcasting, it's like an all in one thing, and I can just easily do it all in one place and have it done and have that communication with listeners on there. So what are your feelings about Substack for a streamlined approach for podcasting and newsletter?

AMANDA: Mhmmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Well, I will caveat this by saying that I have a lot of opinions on a platform that I do not use myself, [LAUGHTER] at least not as a publisher. But I mean, you're right, like Substack does have the functionality that you can publish an email newsletter and host a podcast at the same time, right? And I think I'm correct when I say that also it's free.

MARY: Yes, I looked it up. It is free.

AMANDA: Mhmm. It is free. So very compelling. Yeah, it is very compelling. Value proposition from Substack, right? And so, you know, Substack has really been hailed in the last couple of years as kind of this alternative to social media. And we're going to get on Substack and then we're going to start making, you know, six-figures a year based on our content. And in my experience and with the folks that I work with, that, that is not actually what happens. In fact, you know, more and more these days, Substack itself is starting to look a lot like an all purpose social media as well, right?

MARY: Yes. I was just thinking about that because you. We were talking about what is social media, and then we're like, okay, comments and stuff. So they have that in the platform where you can chat and have like, a forum and comments.

AMANDA: Exactly. And you know, maybe that's something that is appealing, right? But I mean, I'm no fun, because it's always going to come back down to like, well, what are the objectives?... [LAUGHTER]

MARY: Yeah.

AMANDA: …What are you trying to do, right?...

MARY: Yes. Yes.

AMANDA: …And I'm not going to let you just jump into the shiny new thing until we have a really clear understanding of the business case, right?... 

MARY: Yeah.

AMANDA: …And how this is actually going to drive things forward. And what do you need? What types of functionality do you need, right? And like I listen to podcasts on the Substack app. I do actually, usually I listen to them on the Substack app because I'm too lazy to like set up the RSS feed and Castbox, right?

MARY: Yeah. Because it's another form of like layer of friction that you got to do. So like you use the app.

AMANDA: Yeah, exactly. Which I mean, I. That's what Substack likes, right. Because once again, just because we're not paying with our dollars on these types of apps, like they wanna. It's in Substack's best interest for us to spend more time on the app, right? And which, when you also start to unpack, like, all the ways that it has started to act like a social media form with notes, with, they've introduced videos, they've introduced, I don't know if that this is something that's, like, widely available on the platform or if it's just with certain creators or certain partnerships that they've been doing, like, live feeds and, like, live streams and things like that on Substack. 

So Substack wants you on their platform and they want you to stay there for a long time. And so now they are implementing features for you to do that. Now, all of that to say, right? Like, yeah, maybe Substack is a good place for you to publish your podcast and a newsletter, and it's streamlined, and it's all in one. But I would also really just invite you to interrogate, like, what you want out of that too, because from my understanding, like, Substacks analytics is shit.

MARY: Yeah. From what I understand, too, yeah.

AMANDA: Yeah. And you know, I have clients who have had a really hard time trying to figure out, okay, like, who's actually, like, reading my newsletter, clicking my newsletter, and I have no idea what the podcast stats are like, right. Also, think about, okay, going back to what role does your podcast play in your business, right?

Where I have seen Substack work is when the thing, the product, the offer, whether it's paid or free, is whatever is happening on Substack. Like, I'm going to create a newsletter, I'm going to host the podcast there, we're going to have comments, we're going to do notes, we're going to do whatever. And everything happens here on Substack. And you're not now trying to pull somebody away from Substack to, like, buy a service. 

MARY: Yeah. 

AMANDA: You know what I mean?

MARY: Yeah.

AMANDA: And this is where I think things start to get tricky. And I. I kid you not that. I have worked with multiple service providers who started their Substack, bought into the promise of Substack, that you can publish here and make money from your content. And as a service provider who's creating content to market my business, I mean, yummy. I want that. I'm working so hard, so if I could get, you know, a couple hundred people to pay me $5 a month, like, that sounds amazing, right?

MARY: That's a great piece of income right there.

AMANDA: Exactly. I would love that. However, I'm not a content creator. That's not my business model. I'm a service provider, right?

MARY: Aha.

AMANDA: And so once you start to then be like, okay, well, when do people buy the Substack? And then if they're paying members of my substack, how do I sell to them? How do I now use email marketing? Because we also conflate email marketing with newsletters. And like, newsletters is like, the content marketing, it's like the information update date. It's the know, like and trust piece or it's like the product, right? Like if you're publishing on Substack, whereas email marketing is a conversion driver. It's driving sales. It's the email that has the like, buy now button, right? 

MARY: Mhmm.

AMANDA: It's the 27 emails I get from Old Navy with my super cash codes in it, right?... 

MARY: Yes. [LAUGHTER]

AMANDA: …Where it's driving me to make a purchase, right? So you have to have a really clear understanding of, okay, if you're especially if you’re a service provider, how is this going to fit into my strategy and into my sales strategy and into my business model, right? So I would caution, caution folks who are feeling or hearing the siren call of Substack, right, to really think deeply about the strategy and to try not to get caught up in Substack’s marketing, right?

Because, you know, they're going to promise you the world. And Substack is. I mean, maybe has Substack reached a tipping point? Maybe? You know, maybe it's gotten to a point where, you know, we can't all get rich on Substack anymore potentially. But unless you're really willing to put the work into Substack, it's, it's not going to do what it says on the tin. And if you're a service provider or you're using this as a way to promote other revenue streams or other lines of business, you'll probably just end up frustrated. So just keep your ESP, whatever email service provider you're keeping, you don't have to jump ship.

MARY: Yeah. The other thing too, I was looking into Substack just because I have two clients in the past month who were like, should I go on to Substack? So I, you know, did a little bit of research and tried to figure out, okay, how does this work for your podcast specifically? And the one thing that I couldn't find on their website is, okay, if I'm done with Substack, can I redirect and have a 301 redirect for my feed? And they have not given any option for that. So that tells me that you don't own your podcast after this. Substack owns that feed,... 

AMANDA: Ooo.

MARY: …and if you want to move off of it, you'd have to build the RSS feed all over again because it tells you how to import one, but it doesn't tell you how to export one.

AMANDA: Very interesting.

MARY: So that's usually my red flag of I don't think people should move their podcast there yet.

AMANDA: Yeah. Yeah. You know, Amelia, I mentioned before, has an episode called Should I Publish My Podcast On Substack? So I'll send you that link so you can include that in the show notes.

MARY: Yeah, and I listen to Amelia's podcast, too, so I haven't listened to that episode, but I can recommend her podcast, so I'm gonna go listen to that episode too. So thanks for sharing that one.

AMANDA: Great.

MARY: Okay. I mean, we could talk about this forever. We can gab and gab and gab, but we got things to do, so thank you so much for your time, Amanda. To close off, though, I always like to ask my guests, what are you excited about podcasting right now?

AMANDA: Okay. So I listen to a lot of TV recap podcasts, actually.

MARY: Ooo yeah!

AMANDA: And when we're recording this, we're just in the middle of February, and, like, a lot of my favourite TV shows are coming back, after long hiatuses. And so I'm currently, I'm watching Severance and YellowJackets and White Lotus is coming back. The Last of Us is coming out, a little bit later in the spring. And so I'm actually really excited to have, like, different TV podcasts, in my feed again, because it's been a bit of a fallow time for us TV lovers over the last year or so. And I really love HBO, always does, like, a companion podcast or often does a companion podcast with the shows where they're actually talking to the creators of the show and kind of giving some behind the scenes. And especially with shows like the Last of Us, like, I just, I love that so much. So I'm listening, I love to watch TV, but even more, I love to listen to TV podcasts.

[LAUGHTER]

MARY: I love that because, you know, our world is so serious, and so, like, TV is giving us that window into, like, dreamland, and not have to focus on marketing and tactics, and all that stuff.

AMANDA: Although, I mean, I don't know about you, but the zombie apocalypse, the mushroom zombie apocalypse… 

MARY: Oh, gosh, 

AMANDA: …does feel nigh.

MARY: It's true. That is true. Although I'm excited for the Last of Us just because this upcoming season, they filmed it on the island here where I live in Vancouver Island in Nanaimo and Vancouver, where I grew up. So I was like, oh, how are they gonna transform this into the mushroom world.

AMANDA: I can't wait.

MARY: I can't wait to. Anyway, thank you so much Amanda, for your time and your expertise and your brilliance. And maybe you should come back and we'll do funnel and sandwiches and stuff anytime.

MARY: Next time.

AMANDA: Anytime.

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MARY: Oh, yeah. How are you feeling now about social media after that discussion? Are you still in the camp of staying or are you planning on leaving cold turkey? It's okay also to just dip your toes back in every now and then, because as Amanda says, it really depends. What are your goals? It's the same for when I'm talking about, you know, launching a podcast or when people are trying to figure out what they're doing with their show. It is that same question, what are your goals? 

I always ask my clients that. What is the reason for your podcast? What do you want to do with it? Is it that relationship building? Is it the thought leadership in your industry? Is it to grow your network? A podcast can be very specific for each of these things. Before you know what you can do with your show and how to do it, you need clarity on what your podcast is for. 

So I love that Amanda reiterated this point for the marketing side as well. And Amanda mentioned Amelia's podcast episode about Substack. We highly recommend it. Listen to it. It is linked in the show. Notes for you. I listened to it. It's a quick episode. So she really asked some strong questions that I've asked some of my own clients as well in our strategy sessions. So if you want a quick rundown of what you should start thinking about about this whole Substack, should I be on it? Should I not, give that episode a listen? Like I said, it's a short solo. So if you want to get more specific onto the idea of Substack, and if you want to host your podcast there, Amelia's episode will be a good follow up to this one. 

And like I was mentioning on the show, that clarity session with Amanda was amazing. It was a one off session where I needed my questions answered instead of, you know, googling it all, trying to figure out, okay, so now that I've googled everything, what will work best for me, it's having that second set of eyes and ears. You know, it's kind of like you're in that fishbowl and you're swimming around in circles all the time, but she's outside of that fishbowl and she really gives you some great clarity. So, highly recommend to if you're looking for some clarity in your marketing, go talk to Amanda. I will leave her website linked in the show notes of course. She'll give you a great roadmap for what will work for you and your show versus, like I said, that generic Google search of ideas that are out there and, uh, of course, what we see on social media too, right? So, slowandsteady.studio, I'll put that link in the show notes. 

And finally, as Amanda was talking about newsletters and that clear call to action on podcasts, I wanted to bring up mine. How, of course I'm going to end my show with a clear call to action. And since we were talking about newsletters, I would love for you to sign up for mine. You can learn more about podcasting and your voice speaking with spirit. Because your voice is needed now more than ever. I know I've said it before, but, yeah, even more so now because of all the restrictions and silencing that's happening in the world that we've been seeing on social media. So I've said it in the past, but I feel like this moment in time, I mean it more than ever, that we do need your voice now more than ever. 

So another way to keep in touch with me is through my newsletter, which I don't send out too often. So like she said, I'm not doing like, a buy now type of email marketing. It is a newsletter that I send out most of the time when a new episode is out. So keep in touch with me over there. I'll give you some extra tips as well in the newsletter about podcasting and your voice. So head on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com/newsletter to sign up. 

And as always, I'd love to hear from you about your thoughts on social media and podcasting, or even your thoughts about Substack. Are you on it? Are you not? Are you contemplating it? I'd love to know. You can leave me a voice note on my website, VisibleVoicePodcast.com look for the purple send voicemail button where you can email me or heck yeah, in direct message. Me on social media too. Yes, I'm there. Instagram or LinkedIn. I would love for you to just share your voice, right? Share your thoughts on this whole marketing without social media or I need social media, I'm too addicted to it. It doesn't matter. I would just love to hear your thoughts on this episode. 

So I'm gonna have a social media post on it. You'll see it. Hopefully the algorithm will let you see it. And when you do, leave a comment there as well. Totally cool. One way or another. 

On the next episode, we are going to be talking about video, oh yeah, it's that rise of video podcast and how video is so integrated into this podcasting space now. And this whole marketing piece too. People are using video on social media, right? So we are going to talk about pros and cons of integrating video and why you want or not want to add video into your podcasting workflow. So I'll catch you then.

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MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you share it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com. Until next time.

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