‘Making Sense With Sam Harris’ and Ross Douthat

This week we’re sharing an episode of ‘Making Sense With Sam Harris.’ The author and podcaster recently invited Ross on his show to discuss religion and politics. But they debated so much more: the existence of God, the mystery of the cosmos, the limits of consciousness, moral progress and even whether demons walk among us.

Note: This recording has not been fact-checked by our team.

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.