This Instability May Be Worth It. Here’s Why.

Is the short-term economic pain of President Trump’s unpredictable approach to tariffs a reasonable price to pay for a more resilient America? Mr. Trump appears to think so, and so does Oren Cass — sort of. On the first episode of “Interesting Times,” the founder and chief economist of the think tank American Compass joins Ross Douthat to discuss and debate the Trump administration’s drastic trade war.

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) 

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.